Develop Bugs

Should Android handset manufacturers start developing only one or fewer devices?

I was just reading this article:
http://s4gru.com/index.php?/blog/1/...he-midrange-samsung-galaxy-victory-oet-review
And think it's a complete waste of money and resources developing mid and lower range handsets. If I was the CEO of HTC, Moto, or Samsung, I would focus on only 1 (flagship) device in each size category.
It just makes sense on so many levels, economically and marketing wise especially.
For example, the current hottest phone for Samsung is the Galaxy S III, which commands the premium price of being the latest and greatest at $200. They can sell the SGSII for $100 and offer the SGS for free (all on contract of course).
Imagine all the engineers and financial resources they can allocate to flagship devices if they followed this model.
Samsung, Motorola, HTC, please dump all your existing mid and lower range lines of handsets.
Do yourselves and Android lovers a great service!
And lastly, please use the same name for each device for all the carriers. None of this one unique name for each carrier for the same device bullcrap!

It would make sense only if they didn't make a profit on these phones that they push out but obviously they do so they will continue pushing out as many as possible. Luckily it seems Samsung is the only company left doing this.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Apple actually has a patent on that business model.

Some people can't afford to pay flagship model prices.
More handsets with different ranges will appeal to more customers.
There is also those who don't need everything a top of the line phone has.
No way I am going to pay for the top of the line phone for my 12 year old son.
He doesn't need all the features, plus the fact that since he's a kid there is a greater chance of the phone meeting some kind of accident.

lowandbehold said:
Apple actually has a patent on that business model.
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Apple has a low end, mid range, and high end iPhone in the market (4 - free, 4S - $100, 5 - $200+). Even they couldn't ignore the low end of the market anymore.

This post demonstrates no business knowledge whatsoever. Like previously mentioned not everyone wants a flagship or even a smart phone. You need to cater to a wide range of users.
It's not about focusing all your resources on flagship models for a smaller group. They make a large profit on lower and mid range phones too.

Sdobron said:
This post demonstrates no business knowledge whatsoever. Like previously mentioned not everyone wants a flagship or even a smart phone. You need to cater to a wide range of users.
It's not about focusing all your resources on flagship models for a smaller group. They make a large profit on lower and mid range phones too.
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agreed, some buy the top end phones and figure there is no need for lower. It is kind of like when you hear "buy a BMW because there is no point to buying a lower quality car" Well what if they put even MORE R&D into it and now the phone was leagues better but cost $900 with a contract renewal? Its about making profit and producing what the market wants. one person once made a ton of money on a pet rock.

Sdobron said:
This post demonstrates no business knowledge whatsoever. Like previously mentioned not everyone wants a flagship or even a smart phone. You need to cater to a wide range of users.
It's not about focusing all your resources on flagship models for a smaller group. They make a large profit on lower and mid range phones too.
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Well, the point is this.
HTC, Moto, and Samsung can all take huge advantage of economies of scale when they only make flagship model phones. How many components can Samsung share between the Galaxy S I, II, III and soon to be out IV?
Apple is making PLENTY of profit ONLY selling to people who want smart phones.

Sm0k3d 0uT said:
Some people can't afford to pay flagship model prices.
More handsets with different ranges will appeal to more customers.
There is also those who don't need everything a top of the line phone has.
No way I am going to pay for the top of the line phone for my 12 year old son.
He doesn't need all the features, plus the fact that since he's a kid there is a greater chance of the phone meeting some kind of accident.
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The idea behind this is that everyone gets a flagship phone. You might not have the latest generation of the flagship phone, but it's still a flagship phone from its time.
The Galaxy S I was a flag ship phone and Samsung can now offer it for $0 with contract.
The Galaxy S II was a flag ship phone and Samsung can now offer it for $99 with contract.
The Galaxy S III is the CURRENT flag ship phone and Samsung offers it for $199 with contract.
----------------------
When the Galaxy S IV comes out, just phase out the Galaxy S I and offer this:
The Galaxy S II was a flag ship phone and Samsung can now offer it for $0 with contract.
The Galaxy S III was a flag ship phone and Samsung can now offer it for $99 with contract.
The Galaxy S IV is the CURRENT flag ship phone and Samsung offers it for $199 with contract.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? I think it's the best business model out there! You can save more costs due to sharing some components across generations and everyone gets a flagship device. That alone does a lot for the perception of your brand. Apple doesn't make a crappy mid or low range phone, so their brand is never associated with cheapness. But, you can get an iphone 4 for cheap now, it's $0 with contract. It's also 3 generations behind...but that also means the parts inside it are cheaper to buy, because they too, are 3 generations behind.

lowandbehold said:
Apple actually has a patent on that business model.
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I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to patent this business model!

Yup this I think, is what needs to happen. Way to may phones coming out every year. It would also help with updates. Cheap phones is what gives android a bad name. After someone buys a cheap crap phone then tries an iphone they always end up switching.

Well, your logic in saying they would save money by mass producing more of just one or fewer models is only partly true. Surely there's some benefit, but as large portions of the guts of these budget phones are just last year's processors and chips...what you're saying is already partly happening. I agree it is quite annoying and confusing to bother rereleasing slightly modified versions of previous models as budget phones, but I'm not sure that they truly would save much in terms of production from simplifying their lineups. There may be a certain logic to the rebranding as many average people don't realize they're buying old tech if it's just released, and look, cheaper!
The real benefits of condensing the amount of models is probably just to gain more notoriety for making one good phone, which I guess really is copying the Apple model. Only one laptop, one phone, yadda...which is kinda boring to me. Thus my preference would be to keep some variety out there, but if they are going to release more devices, add more actual variety, not just useless rebranded old models.
EDIT: Additional complaint...I really hate it when people worry about the extra 100 dollars up front for a phone that costs such a ginormous amount of money on contract

johnchad14 said:
Well, your logic in saying they would save money by mass producing more of just one or fewer models is only partly true. Surely there's some benefit, but as large portions of the guts of these budget phones are just last year's processors and chips...what you're saying is already partly happening. I agree it is quite annoying and confusing to bother rereleasing slightly modified versions of previous models as budget phones, but I'm not sure that they truly would save much in terms of production from simplifying their lineups. There may be a certain logic to the rebranding as many average people don't realize they're buying old tech if it's just released, and look, cheaper!
The real benefits of condensing the amount of models is probably just to gain more notoriety for making one good phone, which I guess really is copying the Apple model. Only one laptop, one phone, yadda...which is kinda boring to me. Thus my preference would be to keep some variety out there, but if they are going to release more devices, add more actual variety, not just useless rebranded old models.
EDIT: Additional complaint...I really hate it when people worry about the extra 100 dollars up front for a phone that costs such a ginormous amount of money on contract
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If you read my OP, I said they should release one flagship phone for each size segment. But for smaller players, like LG, just make one phone. Bigger players, like HTC, Samsung, Motorola....they can make a 4" phone, 5" phone and 4" phone with keyboard.
They all aren't going to make the exact same size 4" or 5" phones. Just look at all the models in the 4.x" range. You still will have the diversity of Android.

Turb0wned said:
Yup this I think, is what needs to happen. Way to may phones coming out every year. It would also help with updates. Cheap phones is what gives android a bad name. After someone buys a cheap crap phone then tries an iphone they always end up switching.
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You are 100% correct!!!
We should post on Moto, HTC and Samsung's Facebook pages and let them know what we want!
Apple will not have a chance in hell if each company only focused on one kickass, flagship device. Imagine the HUGE benefit to consumer as well!!!

The only problem I see is when your making only one phone or just a few phones and Apple gets them banned your SOL on all sales until its sorted.

In theory, this is a good idea. However, android technology evolves way too fast for this to work. It's possible to get a GS2 for free on contract and a GS3 for like $50 if you look hard enough. If you're really good, you can get really any phone (besides an iPhone) free on contract

People want different things though, i for one think 4.8 inches it's too large, and personally, if they fit some nice specs in a keyboard phone with unlockable bootloader AND removable battery, I'd be all over it. I like the options, and I'm sure many others enjoy having a choice as well.
And keyboard phones don't sell like they use to so they're no longer flagship phones, even the Droid series is dissolving.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

Only if they happened to have designed the perfect budget phone 2 years ago, no changes necessary (or, in the case of apple, if your consumers don't care and would just buy anyway). Reading your example, this new phone was designed precisely because they were able to add newer, better components while still keeping it a budget phone.
Now, your strategy might make sense for some (say, if your company can't afford to spend the money, HTC style) but I doubt you'd convince someone like samsung, whose business model is based on one-upping their opponents in all areas, to do so. As Ashton suggested, Android (unlike the iPhone) is driven too hard by competition, so that the vendors are forced to evolve even their budget lines.

thebobp said:
Only if they happened to have designed the perfect budget phone 2 years ago, no changes necessary (or, in the case of apple, if your consumers don't care and would just buy anyway). Reading your example, this new phone was designed precisely because they were able to add newer, better components while still keeping it a budget phone.
Now, your strategy might make sense for some (say, if your company can't afford to spend the money, HTC style) but I doubt you'd convince someone like samsung, whose business model is based on one-upping their opponents in all areas, to do so. As Ashton suggested, Android (unlike the iPhone) is driven too hard by competition, so that the vendors are forced to evolve even their budget lines.
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So, none of the antagonizing arguments make sense.
If Android vendors are under more competition, then it makes MORE sense to adopt this business model.
It's no wonder Jelly Bean web penetration is only at 1.2% a full two months after its release. Look at the staggering amount of handsets that have to be upgraded. Even the SGS3, a flagship phone, isn't getting JB until October. But, the Nexus S has it already...because Google only makes one model. Say Samsung cut down to only producing the GS and Note series phones and just used the previous gen models to sell as "budget" phones. It would be so much easier to do software upgrades for their customers (which is what everyone wants...check their FB page, number one question is...when is my phone going to get the next update?).
Also, the whole argument about diversity has already addressed. HTC, Moto and Samsung all aren't going to make the same size phones. That's not to mention the smaller players like Sony, LG, etc. They'll all stake a claim somewhere in the 4"-5" range. HTC and Samsung will also stake claims in the 5"+ territory.

AshtonTS said:
In theory, this is a good idea. However, android technology evolves way too fast for this to work. It's possible to get a GS2 for free on contract and a GS3 for like $50 if you look hard enough. If you're really good, you can get really any phone (besides an iPhone) free on contract
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That sounds counter intuitive. If Android tech evolves really fast, then that's actually all the more reason to adopt this model. The budget phone segment will get a new "update" every 9mos or whatever the cycle is at now that new flagship versions are being released. Samsung and others can allocate more engineers to work on just two models and get software updates out faster.

Note 7 recall

Engaget is reporting a world wide recall of the Note 7 because of exploding batteries.
Hopefully they will also deal with the Gorilla Glass 5 problem too.
Shofar1

..

It seems a full recall of all phones sold. Hopefully they also replace the Samsung screen protector I bought with the phone

An official statement by Samsung.
"Statement on Galaxy Note 7
Samsung is committed to producing the highest quality products and we take every incident report from our valued customers very seriously. In response to recently reported cases of the new Galaxy Note 7, we conducted a thorough investigation and found a battery cell issue.
To date (as of September 1) there have been 35 cases that have been reported globally and we are currently conducting a thorough inspection with our suppliers to identify possible affected batteries in the market. However, because our customers' safety is an absolute priority at Samsung, we have stopped sales of the Galaxy Note 7.
For customers who already have Galaxy Note 7 devices, we will voluntarily replace their current device with a new one over the coming weeks.
We acknowledge the inconvenience this may cause in the market but this is to ensure that Samsung continues to deliver the highest quality products to our customers. We are working closely with our partners to ensure the replacement experience is as convenient and efficient as possible."
Lets see what happens.

Ryland Johnson said:
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Thank goodness I haven't gotten my unit yet!!! Long business trips do have their benefits.
One interesting takeaway from the CNN story's the quote from the President of Sammy's Mobile Communications about how much the recall's going to cost: "it is a big amount that is heartbreaking." Looks like they're going to have huge write-offs.
Maybe they'll have to bin all the batches they're recalling and the suspect ones in inventory. Then there's the issue of lost sales and some people not wanting to buy even later batches because -- well, because you never know. I mean -- Google Pixel Phone Plus (or whatever it's called) -- here I come!!!
The problem with these metal and glass devices is they can't just open these things, replace the batteries and re-ship them. Those glass backs will inevitably break during the process. The colored foil behind the glass is also going to have to be replaced. Then there's the waterproofing...
I wonder if it's simply a battery flaw or a design flaw that causes the device to overheat under certain circumstances. Global recalls like this don't just happen unless there's a very serious issue, regardless of what Sammy's lawyers wrote in their official release. I've been buying smartphones since the early days and this is the only time I can remember a recall of this scale happening.
While it's nice that Sammy was so quick to address it, it's a damn shame because the Note 7 was their best device yet.
The irony is that if Sammy had insisted on keeping their plastic designs -- the same designs we crucified them for -- or maintained removable batteries in metal-framed phones (hello Note 4!) -- this could've been addressed with in-store battery exchanges. Again, that's assuming it's not a design flaw.

And I have such a good device too. None of this user created lag or battery drain.... Sigh.
Sent from my SM-N930P using Tapatalk

Interestingly me and a friend of mine have not had any of the issues mentioned here "yet" battery life is amazing and no boot loop. And we were also part of the pre-order batch.

I demand compensation for my Temperglass screen!!... everything else i could backup and transfer easily... i still have to fine tune a few other setting that dont let me "backup setting"

After this Samsung's recall statement will be known worldwide, IMHO the Note 7 reputation, confidence and appeal for the customers will be heavily affected....
Therefore I personally expect the announcement of the release of a new revised model, for example a Note "7s" with a Snapdragon 821 and 6 GB of RAM, very soon, just before Christmas time, to compete with new Apple's and Google's smartphones.

what if mine is ok ?
Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk

You think we will have the option to change color of phone in recall?
Sent from my Galaxy Note7 using XDA Labs

judy.baby2013 said:
what if mine is ok
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What if it is not? :fingers-crossed:

This is scaring me at the moment... I was one of the first to get this device in the world during it's release in Dubai.
Sent from my SM-N930FD using Tapatalk

alltaken123 said:
What if it is not? :fingers-crossed:
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That's actually a great point. I love my phone, it's performing perfectly, but you don't just do a worldwide recall because a couple people used a bad charger. They were able to recreate it.
It is sad, this is undoubtedly the best phone Samsung has ever made and it's going to be a financial and PR disaster. On the other hand, those of us who stick with it will probably get a 2nd promotional item haha.

Really sucks but yeah hopefully they will give us something free for the inconvenience or some money for the screen protectors everyone has already purchased and put on the phone...
Feel bad for them though and all of the bad pr. This is an amazing phone and I love it. I guess they will be taking quality control much more seriously in the future (they should have originally since it is the most expensive phone ever).

The phone is still to be released in the UK, was due to be released today I think. The recall will probably delay that by quite some time.
Hopefully Samsung can narrow the problem down to a specific set of serial numbers. A global recall is very unusual, and does perhaps point to a design flaw rather than the batteries.
Apple will be enjoying this...

RandyKaoss said:
The phone is still to be released in the UK, was due to be released today I think. The recall will probably delay that by quite some time.
Hopefully Samsung can narrow the problem down to a specific set of serial numbers. A global recall is very unusual, and does perhaps point to a design flaw rather than the batteries.
Apple will be enjoying this...
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Today was the official date, but Carphone Warehouse gave me my N7 on Tuesday!

It's great that they're doing it but also.... uuugh, why
Also, can you imagine the after work drinks over at Apple today?

DITTO on the Screen Protector issue!
It was so dang hard to find my genuine samsung screen protectors, not to mention the cost. It came with two but used them both already since both my wife and I have the same phones. Right after I finalized my purchase from ebay (the only US seller I've found period), the guy jacked the price from $16.99 to $99 and then to a clown-shoes $299. The samsung SP is actually curved and, IMO, feels great. Hopefully I can get them to pony up a replacement set.

Femmetechstic said:
It's great that they're doing it but also.... uuugh, why
Also, can you imagine the after work drinks over at Apple today?
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I bet Apple (and Samsung) have failure lights around the building that flash when theres a fail...
Apple will send everyone home early today!

Note 7 reported cases - Are they just reported?

So here is the thing. People claim that their notes "caught on fire". Both the original and replacements. Have these people sent all of their phones back to Samsung for inspection? If I just say that my note caught on fire and provide no proof, do they still count his as a case? This whole fiasco seems very odd to me. It is not like companies like apple have not tried stuffing the most battery in a phone before. Plus, does anybody really know how these people who have proven cases were using their phones?
I mean, we all know that every phone is not perfect and a few are going to have these issues. Samsung supposively cannot replicate this issue. The fact that the Note 7 beat the iphone to the punch and was a real threat to their 7 plus just seems a bit strange to me that all of a sudden this was going on.
I will do my due diligence and check out the pixel and the V20, but if either does not meet what I want, I am keeping my note. Samsung washers have reportedly "exploded" too, but I still use it and there has not been a recall.

You shouldn't take things so personally, as if Samsung is going to kill you or mangle you if you don't return that damned Note 7. The right thing to do is return it, if you can't see that then that's your problem but know if you don't return it and something actually does happen - you get injured in some manner or someone else does, or property gets damaged in some manner - you're on your own and you have no legal recourse to sue Samsung or anyone else now that the worldwide recall is official.
You and many others like you can ramble on with post after post after post about how Samsung is at fault (they know it), how bad this is for Samsung (they know it), that people will miss the Note products from Samsung (they know it), that Samsung should do something to fix things (they know it and they're working on it and it's costing them billions to do so), and how pissed you and others are about this whole fiasco (they know it).
We all know it, things happen, mistakes happen, sometimes it all goes wrong and nothing can be done to curtail that until AFTER it's happened which is the case here with the Note 7.
What's done is done, get over it. Return the device, get the refund, move on, because anything else is just whining.

The problem I have.....
I just signed up for a 2 yr payment plan for the phone...have had it 2 weeks now I need to swap it for another phone... THERE IS NO OTHER PHONE that can match the Note 7 other then maybe the S7edge.....but that phone has been out since march and now I'll have it for another 2 years!!!
So my upgrade just got really downgraded for 2 years!!
Sent from my SM-N930V using Tapatalk

br0adband said:
You shouldn't take things so personally, as if Samsung is going to kill you or mangle you if you don't return that damned Note 7. The right thing to do is return it, if you can't see that then that's your problem but know if you don't return it and something actually does happen - you get injured in some manner or someone else does, or property gets damaged in some manner - you're on your own and you have no legal recourse to sue Samsung or anyone else now that the worldwide recall is official.
You and many others like you can ramble on with post after post after post about how Samsung is at fault (they know it), how bad this is for Samsung (they know it), that people will miss the Note products from Samsung (they know it), that Samsung should do something to fix things (they know it and they're working on it and it's costing them billions to do so), and how pissed you and others are about this whole fiasco (they know it).
We all know it, things happen, mistakes happen, sometimes it all goes wrong and nothing can be done to curtail that until AFTER it's happened which is the case here with the Note 7.
What's done is done, get over it. Return the device, get the refund, move on, because anything else is just whining.
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Do we actually have any real proof of what is actually going on with the phone and why this is happening? Like i said, I will do my due diligence and take a look at other options. But this whole thing stinks of apple having their hand in this. They have no innovations since who knows when and Samsung was pretty much beating them in everything.

tttuning said:
The problem I have.....
I just signed up for a 2 yr payment plan for the phone...have had it 2 weeks now I need to swap it for another phone... THERE IS NO OTHER PHONE that can match the Note 7 other then maybe the S7edge.....but that phone has been out since march and now I'll have it for another 2 years!!!
So my upgrade just got really downgraded for 2 years!!
Sent from my SM-N930V using Tapatalk
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Yup. My only option is to just get a full refund and wait till the Galaxy 8 pro or whatever they will call it comes out.

I wish that was an option for me...but I just swapped the vzw due to service in my area so my note 4 was traded in!!! Uggg
Sent from my SM-N930V using Tapatalk

Fourstarzzzz said:
... and Samsung was pretty much beating them in everything.
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Except actual sales.
As for the rest of what you said, Samsung is currently conducting their internal investigation and that will take as long as it takes. If and when they do reach a conclusion and discover what caused the issues with the Note 7 that eventually prompted the worldwide recall they will make a public statement.
Until that actual public statement appears on a Samsung official website (based on countries, as in there's a Korean site, a US site, a Canadian site, a UK site, etc) then pretty much everything you hear, read, or see can be considered speculative conjecture at best.
There can be some actually logical speculative conjecture in some degrees because Li-Ion batteries work in predictable and very well known ways - the issue here is what's causing them to end up in runaway conditions aka burning up and sometimes exploding. It could be a charging issue, it could be an issue with the thermal limitations being exceeded, it could be an issue with pressure on the battery inside the device once it's all closed up caused by the construction of the device itself, it could be any additional pressure exerted on the already compressed battery by outside forces (bending, punctures, sitting down with a Note 7 in a pocket especially a back pocket), and so on.
We don't know anything for 100% actual fact at this point except to say that some Note 7 devices have catastrophically failed and enough of them have failed to cause Samsung to issue the worldwide recall.
All that matters is that the recall is in place and that the devices should be returned for exchange with another device (not a Note 7 of course) or a refund of the purchase price.
Anything else is just babbling from idiots.

br0adband said:
Except actual sales.
As for the rest of what you said, Samsung is currently conducting their internal investigation and that will take as long as it takes. If and when they do reach a conclusion and discover what caused the issues with the Note 7 that eventually prompted the worldwide recall they will make a public statement.
Until that actual public statement appears on a Samsung official website (based on countries, as in there's a Korean site, a US site, a Canadian site, a UK site, etc) then pretty much everything you hear, read, or see can be considered speculative conjecture at best.
There can be some actually logical speculative conjecture in some degrees because Li-Ion batteries work in predictable and very well known ways - the issue here is what's causing them to end up in runaway conditions aka burning up and sometimes exploding. It could be a charging issue, it could be an issue with the thermal limitations being exceeded, it could be an issue with pressure on the battery inside the device once it's all closed up caused by the construction of the device itself, it could be any additional pressure exerted on the already compressed battery by outside forces (bending, punctures, sitting down with a Note 7 in a pocket especially a back pocket), and so on.
We don't know anything for 100% actual fact at this point except to say that some Note 7 devices have catastrophically failed and enough of them have failed to cause Samsung to issue the worldwide recall.
All that matters is that the recall is in place and that the devices should be returned for exchange with another device (not a Note 7 of course) or a refund of the purchase price.
Anything else is just babbling from idiots.
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Any reason why you are taking this so personal and calling people names? Must be a Hillary supporter....

You think humans in general aren't idiotic and stupid more often than not?
Seriously?
Has there been one single case of me naming and calling out any specific member here and saying "Hey, <member name, you're a stupid person..." or anything of that nature, or are you just taking my belief that people in general are stupid and my pointing that out in general (without naming specific people) at times is a problem for someone in specific 'cause I don't see any actual proof of that happening.

Pretty sure that there are more Samsung phones worldwide than Apple. I know for a fact there are WAY more android phones worldwide - over 70% of the market share, if not more. So I guess it depends on what your definition is in "beating them in sales".
OK, I just looked it up. In 2016, Samsung has 22.8% of the phones world wide. Apple has 11.7%. So Samsung has about twice the amount of phones selling as Apple. 87.6% of the phones world wide are Android BTW.

We're talking about the Note 7, not every Android-based smartphone on the market today and especially not every Samsung smartphone on the market today either.
In terms of sales, the amount of Note 7 devices sold since release in August 2016 was a drop in the bucket in terms of worldwide sales compared to the iPhone 7 or even the iPhone 7 Plus just a week or two after they were released - hell, the iPhone 7/7 Plus probably had more pre-orders than the Note 7 sold physical units of.

br0adband said:
We're talking about the Note 7, not every Android-based smartphone on the market today and especially not every Samsung smartphone on the market today either.
In terms of sales, the amount of Note 7 devices sold since release in August 2016 was a drop in the bucket in terms of worldwide sales compared to the iPhone 7 or even the iPhone 7 Plus just a week or two after they were released - hell, the iPhone 7/7 Plus probably had more pre-orders than the Note 7 sold physical units of.
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I reported your disruptive behavior.

nabbed said:
I reported your disruptive behavior.
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Telling people that you reported them for <whatever> is usually considered to be a bad thing and generally frowned upon but thanks for your efforts just the same.

br0adband said:
Telling people that you reported them for <whatever> is usually considered to be a bad thing and generally frowned upon but thanks for your efforts just the same.
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Your logic is twisted.

br0adband said:
We're talking about the Note 7, not every Android-based smartphone on the market today and especially not every Samsung smartphone on the market today either.
In terms of sales, the amount of Note 7 devices sold since release in August 2016 was a drop in the bucket in terms of worldwide sales compared to the iPhone 7 or even the iPhone 7 Plus just a week or two after they were released - hell, the iPhone 7/7 Plus probably had more pre-orders than the Note 7 sold physical units of.
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In a previous post you said Apple was beating Samsung in sales. That is categorically untrue. Now you are backtracking. Samsung has more than just 2 phones they offer. But that doesn't matter. The phones they DO offer, they sell twice as many of them a year than the two phones Apple does offer (and remember, it wasn't long ago Apple scoffed at the idea that they would need to offer more than one device, or a larger display device at all).
We all know this discussion is on the Note 7. You threw in a quip that was inclusive of more than the Note 7 as a "gotcha", but a gotcha that wasn't at all accurate to the actual statistical sales data. What was your point? The same as your point in typing thousands of words in many posts on a Note 7 forum when you don't even own a Note 7 and never did. Pointless.

The Note 7 is basically Samsung's flagship device to compete directly with the launch of the iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus, is that really in dispute? And at this moment in time, there have been more iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus units sold worldwide than there have been Note 7 units sold worldwide, by a fairly large margin. In probable fact, there were more iPhone 7 sales than the Note 7 and there were more iPhone 7 Plus sales than the Note 7 when taken as individual devices even though they were released at the same time - that means the iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus being released at the same time in September, not the Note 7 which was released in August.
That's all I said, twice now.

You said Apple is beating Samsung in sales. Which is not even remotely true. So now you want to backtrack and single onto one device and make the same claim. And FYI, in 2015, Samsung sold more phones than Apple in Q4, which is usually when Apple does the best as they release the new Ifones in Q4. As I mentioned in a previous post, Samsung sells almost twice as many phones a year as Apple.
No one is debating Apple sells a lot of ifones. Especially in the US. But you might as well acknowledge that they actually don't sell more phones than Samsung, not even close. Unless you want to tweak the stats to just one phone for Samsung, of which they offer several different devices. No one says they only have to offer one or two different models. IDC if Apple sells more or Samsung sells more - that never had anything to do with any of this anyway, but you had to make your quip about it as if it does.

Let's hope this is the case! Discount S8 or Note 8?

I was holding out hoping they would start getting desperate to get the recalled units back, let's hope this is the case, so i guess i should hold out longer now Nd see what happens. They should give us discounts on the next phone, but that doesn't really help being on contract for people like me on the next plan, if i switch the s7 edge right now, I'm locked in for a year unless I pay off half the phone, its a mess but I'm hoping this mess blows over soon, I dont want the S7 but I will use it temporarily until a real upgrade drops, otherwise I'll keep my Note 7, really just depends in what Samsung is willing to do to get me to give it up lol.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.techtimes.com/amp/articles/183031/20161022/samsung-considering-offering-galaxy-note-7-customers-discounts-on-new-galaxy-s8-s8-plus-and-note-8-upon-release.htm?client=ms-android-att-us

I was feeling the same until, in the interests of safety and concern I might need to fly unexpectedly, I swapped for an S7E. The phone is fine. I miss the iris scanner a bit. I barely used the s-pen. I think the battery life is better. I can totally live with this phone for a year or two. I'm on the Jump plan but I really don't make use of the upgrade option much.
Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

So much for keeping the S8 a secret.
I think I've already made up my mind with the LG V20. So I'll pass on this offer.

Discount or not, many will still be in a contract if they were forced to take the S7...

Doesn't seem like this speculative deal is just for hold outs, but for anyone who owned a Note 7.

BozQ said:
So much for keeping the S8 a secret.
I think I've already made up my mind with the LG V20. So I'll pass on this offer.
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LCD? Really? I just can't see beyond that glaring weakness.

So far this offer appears to only be for users in South Korea - Samsung may simply never make the offer worldwide, that would be somewhat extreme and basically cost them double what this whole thing is costing them at this point in time.

Perhaps this offer arose for Korea because some 500 people are sueing them there already?

Now a S7 Edge explodes. wtf?
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Samsung-Galaxy-S7-edge-explodes-while-charging_id86908

So I can sign up for an S7E then get a Note 8 upgrade mid term at 50% off? http://www.androidcentral.com/samsu...korea-makes-it-easier-buy-galaxy-s8-or-note-8
Assuming they extend this offer to the UK that is. Well I returned my N7 and am awaiting a call from Carphone Warehouse to upgrade to the S7E. But I guess I'll only do this if they extend the offer to the UK...
COME ON SAMSUNG....it's not just S. Korea that have been screwed over.

nomailx said:
Now a S7 Edge explodes. wtf?
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Samsung-Galaxy-S7-edge-explodes-while-charging_id86908
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I would be willing to bet that almost every model of phone has had a couple examples of individual phones having meltdowns. It's called "acceptable risk of failure"
i.e. the manufacturer tests and does calculations on their product, and analyzes it to determine how likely the device is to fail, and what the potential damage from said failure would be. If the financial risk due to that failure is lower than the cost to lower the failure rate, they don't care about it (unless the failure rate would be so high that it would draw negative media attention, such as the case with the Note 7).
I imagine that Samsung did this with the Note 7 - they looked at the situation and figured "well, we can swap to the single battery maker for xx million dollars, and replace existing batteries (as well as potentially the glass and body), and the failure rate risk will be lowered to 1 in whatever number of phones". Then when they did that, they realized that the continuing failure of first gen phones, combined with a very small handful of second gen phones (yes, there were 25 or so failures after the phones started being replaced, but not nearly all of those were second gen phones), the only options were either do a full recall, and mitigate the potential financial liability from a lawsuit, or do a complete recall and re-release the phone after putting it through even more extensive testing and possibly an update or repair to the hardware (requiring full recertification and testing for most countries they are sold in that require such certification). The cost was too great, and the risk was too great, so they canned the phone.

jonboyuk said:
So I can sign up for an S7E then get a Note 8 upgrade mid term at 50% off? http://www.androidcentral.com/samsu...korea-makes-it-easier-buy-galaxy-s8-or-note-8
Assuming they extend this offer to the UK that is. Well I returned my N7 and am awaiting a call from Carphone Warehouse to upgrade to the S7E. But I guess I'll only do this if they extend the offer to the UK...
COME ON SAMSUNG....it's not just S. Korea that have been screwed over.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder if the editor of that publication read the article before he wrote the headline? The article says 50% off screen repair costs. It says nothing about a 50% discount on an S8 or Note 8!

BozQ said:
So much for keeping the S8 a secret.
I think I've already made up my mind with the LG V20. So I'll pass on this offer.
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Click to collapse
ermm ........ you will be back

V20 a HOG of a phone - huge bezels. And an IPS display... no thanks to 2012 tech!

Aimara said:
ermm ........ you will be back
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Oh of course. I'm actually brand neutral. I have tried many brand of smartphones over the years.
Starting with the HTC Dream, and then I've had Motorola, Samsung, Xiaomi, Sony and one more that slipped my mind.
The smartphone has become such a personal device for me, it has already superceded my laptop usage. I've had cheap smartphones in the past and I had enough of those. Few months ago, decided to have one super smartphone that does everything I need. And the Note 7 looked like it fit the bill. But we know how that ended up. And the S7 Edge doesn't quite fit the bill for me.
The LG V20 looks good for my daily use. I totally understand why you'd disagree. But we all have our personal preferences. And the V20 might just work out for me. At the same time, it would be the first time I'd try LG.

BozQ said:
Oh of course. I'm actually brand neutral. I have tried many brand of smartphones over the years.
Starting with the HTC Dream, and then I've had Motorola, Samsung, Xiaomi, Sony and one more that slipped my mind.
The smartphone has become such a personal device for me, it has already superceded my laptop usage. I've had cheap smartphones in the past and I had enough of those. Few months ago, decided to have one super smartphone that does everything I need. And the Note 7 looked like it fit the bill. But we know how that ended up. And the S7 Edge doesn't quite fit the bill for me.
The LG V20 looks good for my daily use. I totally understand why you'd disagree. But we all have our personal preferences. And the V20 might just work out for me. At the same time, it would be the first time I'd try LG.
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Click to collapse
How was your Xiaomi experience? I'm eye-balling the Xiaomi Note 2 that just dropped today as a temporary device until the S8 or Note 8 comes out, something to just buy outright and enjoy. But never owned anything but Samsung, so yes I'll def lose the Samsung Perks, I.E. Samsung Pay, Gear VR Etc. But looks-wise Xiaomi did a DECENT job imitating the Note 7, that Skin is just blehhhhhh though.

Dmac1984 said:
How was your Xiaomi experience? I'm eye-balling the Xiaomi Note 2 that just dropped today as a temporary device until the S8 or Note 8 comes out, something to just buy outright and enjoy. But never owned anything but Samsung, so yes I'll def lose the Samsung Perks, I.E. Samsung Pay, Gear VR Etc. But looks-wise Xiaomi did a DECENT job imitating the Note 7, that Skin is just blehhhhhh though.
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They're decent smart devices for the price.
However, most reviews of smartphones (every smartphone, not just Xiaomi) fail to cover is the call quality. I mean, it's a smart -phone- after all.
I make phone calls all the time. My parents, my in-laws, my wife, friends, etc.
Once, my wife and I had the Redmi 2, and it was one of the most frustrating experiences we had. We were constantly struggling to make out what we're telling each other.
We've since switched phones. She got a Galaxy S6, I got the Xperia Z3 Compact, VoLTE and HD Voice was like butter to our ears.
I got the Note 7 initially, so that we could communicate using 3G video calls, something not many smartphones support. But now that the Note 7 is discontinued, I have to search for an alternative.
I was quite close to settle for the S7 (no Edge), until I discovered the V20 also supoorts 3G video calls. So I'm giving that a shot.
Edit - Oh and charging was slow. After experiencing quick charge, you can't go back.
To be fair, I'm not sure about the newer flagship Xiaomi phones. But I don't think I'll be getting another Mi phone soon. I am eager to try OnePlus 3 some day.

My country the only option is to get the refund. So will I still able to get the discount rate for s8?

torickray said:
My country the only option is to get the refund. So will I still able to get the discount rate for s8?
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So far, reports suggests it's only in S Korea. Not worldwide.

Samsung Note 10 ....Giving Up....or.....?

Before I get started I have ordered my Note 10 5G in Aura Glow, and I'm happy with the design changes.
Ok so we all know or perhaps knew the Note line as being the one Samsung would test or perhaps throw in all the goodies into.....as it is known as the "Power House Device" or "Power Users". This seems to have stopped though and it's now really The S line Refresh. Or slightly updated.
It's at this point I scratch my head and ponder why Samsung bother with Two Flagships and why not or note have 1.....they are after all reminesant of a fruit based company.
Their used to be a difference between the 2 devices more than just an S-Pen but perhaps and true the market was different then than it is now, however casing point that yes people are holding onto devices for longer, so yes Samsung needed to do more to entice people to part with the cash (I'm a tech addict I will buy whatever I feel I like) so yes I do like the Note 10+, but I will also on the other hand say that Samsung did not do enough.
I like to see companies push innovation and yes some innovation takes time. For me personally I would have been happy with just a few things on this Note....the Snapdragon 855+ ok ok it's just marginally overclocked and the 90hz Display....., Could this not have been easily done? I think so but Samsung are a big brand much like Apple....they can get away with it. Also Samsung makes money in the Semi Conductor industry so it's not like they have to go all chips in with their devices.
But I'm yes just a little disappointed in that Samsung are quite content to see the competition not overtake or be leaps and bounds better. However to see others just pushing the envelope as Samsung used to do.
Yes great things seem to be in the works for next year, much looking forward to it, I just think that the Note 10+ could have dropped all these ****ty Harry potter bull, the camera doodle rubbish and focus on what made the Note the Power Users Dream.
So onto why I ordered and like it, mainly from a design perspective, I like the camera layout much better, like the more squared off look, Display is very nice, Cameras are nice, I have never had many complaints. And for me it's ok for another run of the sensors.
The Things like Dex I was getting more drawn in and thinks it's gradually improving so much so that I think more will be inclined to use it now. Gamelink is another decent feature, UFS 3.0 we all knew Samsung would be too dog here...with the read/write Speeds.
I still have it as a fantastic device, and I'm sure I'll enjoy it, but guess it's people like me or if your like me, that perhaps slows down or encourages these companies Samsung/Apple to simply cash in. Less of them having to really try because Samsung are capable of better, Apple are to, yes the iPhone will be much of the same to (small updates) I just didn't want to see two very different companies look quite so much the same.
I'm sure many will pick apart my arguments & some will agree....I'm not looking for nodding dogs.
Just expressing myself in a relatively balanced way (maybe contradictory by buying, but I do like the Note 10+, just expected more).

Well let's get the fun started....

I have zero issues with their being two notes.
The Note 9 having two versions was a sign of the times and I think the idea that the higher tier sold well solidified the move to have two versions this year.
That said, I don't even pay the non plus any attention, it's not an upgrade for me coming from a 9. Frankly the Note 10 should be the Note 10e.
I get the idea though, the smaller note with the cheaper price tag (and likely to see larger price drops) will be used to lure in people that would've either moved away from the note because of the larger size and folks that think the Note is too much of a phone so stick with smaller form factors. You also have the small hand people but even then 6.3 isn't tiny. Add a case and both are that much bigger.
If this brings more people to the Note then I have no issue with having a lower tiered phone, we can equate this to apple all day and that's a low hanging fruit argument kind of like Samsung going after apple for the headphone jack.
We keep knocking them and saying they are copying apple every time we aren't happy with a decision but they aren't the first to seal in the battery, they aren't the first to remove the headphone jack. At the same time though, being explicitly different from Apple doesn't exactly mean sales will shoot up (the bottom line) so I think there is more nuance than pointing fingers and complaining they are becoming the thing they hate.

So we have choice and are still not happy?
People moaned about the Note being too big so they gave the choice of two.
Others moaned about the Note being too small so they gave us the choice of two.
I fail to grasp arguments why there should not be the choice of two variations?
It must be the most impossible profession in the world working in mobile devices R&D.
We want bigger, no smaller. We want thinner no bigger battery!
We want all screen with zero bezels, oh look it has a tiny camera spot in the middle!
In reality this new Note 10+ is a beast of a mobile! Mine is coming with 512GB and 12GB RAM on a mobile phone?! Superb screen. multiple cameras and the S-pen, ad infinitum.
I regret the day I sold my Note 9, and yes all the same moans where here about the note 9 too, and purchased the iphone XS max. The note series are incredible devices, if you doubt me try an iPhone for six months! That will give you cause for reflection and pause!

I wasn't complaining about the choices in the two variants, however more in Samsung sticking to a set-plan.
This plan is to sell us on marginal gains, slimmer bezels have been a huge marketing thing and we buy into it because it looks nice.
What I mean is Samsung used to innovate and the note line was the bleeding edge, however the S & N line are very much similar, I would have liked to have seen more differentiation
I'm far from saying it's not a device worth purchasing (I have like I said ordered my Note 10+ 5G).
It's still a well balanced device to which I will enjoy, but we as consumers need to be vocal, rather than saying yeah this will do.....

Duncan1982 said:
It's still a well balanced device to which I will enjoy, but we as consumers need to be vocal, rather than saying yeah this will do.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't want to be that guy but you should speak with your wallet.
If you see them going down a path that isn't beneficial to the consumer, stop purchasing their devices. We can complain all we want in our niche communities but if the sales are good what incentive is there to change.
I mean this goes from they can do better to, hol up guys, I still purchased it.
Having issues with them but still buying from them is about the same as saying "yeah this will do".
As far as the note line not being the bleeding edge, we have to consider what makes the most money for some Samsung. As long as we keep the context that the S series makes more money, it only makes sense that the lines would blur and more innovation would come to the S series. It's about keeping shareholders happy and not about maintaining the legacy of the Note.
It's a phone, when a year drops that isn't all that impressive or a really impressive phone does come out. That is where my money will go. I have as much loyalty to Sammy as they have to me.

pcriz said:
I don't want to be that guy but you should speak with your wallet.
If you see them going down a path that isn't beneficial to the consumer, stop purchasing their devices. We can complain all we want in our niche communities but if the sales are good what incentive is there to change.
I mean this goes from they can do better to, hol up guys, I still purchased it.
Having issues with them but still buying from them is about the same as saying "yeah this will do".
As far as the note line not being the bleeding edge, we have to consider what makes the most money for some Samsung. As long as we keep the context that the S series makes more money, it only makes sense that the lines would blur and more innovation would come to the S series. It's about keeping shareholders happy and not about maintaining the legacy of the Note.
It's a phone, when a year drops that isn't all that impressive or a really impressive phone does come out. That is where my money will go. I have as much loyalty to Sammy as they have to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh I agree by still purchasing I'm just as much to blame.......

Duncan1982 said:
Oh I agree by still purchasing I'm just as much to blame.......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We're in an abusive relationship with Samsung.

pcriz said:
We're in an abusive relationship with Samsung.
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Mwaaaaaaaahahaha yeah one way of putting it......

Name one other smartphone that offers the same level of technical innovation as the Note 10+ offers?
In the past when Samsung was still passing through their plastic phase with plastic backs, plastic stitching and plastic chrome I stopped purchasing Samsung. I went Sony and was very happy with that move. Come the Note 7 and I returned, twice!
I know we can all find something about all smartphones we don't like BUT this note 10+ is a stunning piece of micro engineering. 6 months ago I unwisely purchased an iPhone XSmax PLUS the iWatch 4. the watch is easily the most advanced on the market, the mobile is.....I simply don't have words! The iPhone alone cost 1,450€!!! The note 10+ is 1,230€ and they cannot compare. This Note 10+ is a pocket PC. I cant wait to get my hands on it.

I think one major issue is the line between best features and "bleeding edge" is starting to blur.
In order to really differentiate the Note series from the S Series, Sammy would basically have to gimp the S Series completely. In truth, the people who buy the Note, and the people who buy the S are two separate groups that are separated by more than just a 6-month upgrade cycle.
The S Series people are your base consumer level users who want a flagship Samsung device. They typically don't use it for productivity, but they still want and expect flagship features and quality.
The Note people love the S-Pen and typically use the phone for productivity, i.e. at work, and expect flagship level features and quality.
Yes the two phones are VERY similar, and will continue to be so. What else would you expect? Made by the same company, using same generation hardware, running the same software.
To say we should expect, or worse yet... DESERVE, a more premium device just because it's a Note, and the S Series people should get a gimped device is ridiculous and borders on entitlement.
The Note 10+ is a ultra premium flagship device. Some companies may have 90hz screen refresh, or maybe high MPs on the camera. But those are generally one trick ponies. Samsung gives the best total package money can buy, and for MY money there's no better value out there.
It's not that the S and the Note need to be different or higher or lower quality. They are just packaged differently for two specific user groups. And it's been this way for a while. The S Series is the bigger leap forward, then the Note perfects and marginally updates it. Rinse and repeat. Along with all the annual complaining that they aren't different enough.

pcriz said:
I don't want to be that guy but you should speak with your wallet.
If you see them going down a path that isn't beneficial to the consumer, stop purchasing their devices. We can complain all we want in our niche communities but if the sales are good what incentive is there to change.
I mean this goes from they can do better to, hol up guys, I still purchased it.
Having issues with them but still buying from them is about the same as saying "yeah this will do".
As far as the note line not being the bleeding edge, we have to consider what makes the most money for some Samsung. As long as we keep the context that the S series makes more money, it only makes sense that the lines would blur and more innovation would come to the S series. It's about keeping shareholders happy and not about maintaining the legacy of the Note.
It's a phone, when a year drops that isn't all that impressive or a really impressive phone does come out. That is where my money will go. I have as much loyalty to Sammy as they have to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the issue is nothing is going to be that impressive anymore. We have reached a point where nothing really stands out anymore especially to me. With that being said I am still buying almost every new phone including the note 10 plus so maybe it will impress?

My hunch is that 90Hz refresh may mess with the technology in the digitiser for the pen. As Samsung make the screen for the one plus 7 pro, I can’t see them not including it unless there is a reason like that. The pop up camera in the one plus is a really smart innovation though and is so quick that face authentication feels no slower than an iPhone. This means no interference with cutouts in the screen too. Mind you only apple really has a secure face authentication despite the s10 5g having a front facing depth sensor. Samsung also has very high pixel count camera sensors for mobile use that were ready to go but didn’t use them.
So it feels like the note 10 is a mix of cutting edge and good but not great other aspects. It’s not surprising that it has many people divided!!

Great Phone it is

I kind of disagree with you about the productivity and pen thing. I've been a note buyer since the note 2 and honestly I've barely ever used the spen.
For me it's always been about top of the top when it comes to specs and typically largest display size on the market

The note 10 (not the 10+) is a very bad joke.
Worse display, no sd card and smaller battery than note9. No led notification, no 3.5 jack.
In conclusion worse than note9.
I doubt anyone with common sense would toss that amount of money to buy at this starting price.

The top flagship mobiles from Samsung vary in features and size exactly like a car. Ford Focus. The focus range come in estate, two door sport, four door sedan and coupe etc. Very different cars all built on the same chassis etc but aimed at different segments of the population.
I have never understood why one would buy the Note line and not use the pen? Its what the Note is focused on and built around around !!!
Stop the comparisons and enjoy the choice. Buy what you need.

Like I said I purchased the Note 10+ 5G.....:good: wasn't meant as a complaint as it's a fantastic device with very little to complain about.
It's just that with such a device perhaps some of us just expected a little bit more than what was presented.
However I have been using since Friday & everything is just dandy, very much appreciate the new design, that for me was one reason to buy, but also like mentioned the S-Pen and it's industry leading, nothing comes close to it's functionality and usefulness.
Hope you are all enjoying .....

Hitman3984 said:
I kind of disagree with you about the productivity and pen thing. I've been a note buyer since the note 2 and honestly I've barely ever used the spen.
For me it's always been about top of the top when it comes to specs and typically largest display size on the market
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Which is why is said Note users "typically" use the phone for work and productivity.
The opposite is also true about the S series. They are TYPICALLY used used by just typical consumers, but are sometimes used for work and productivity.
Panasonic toughbook laptops are TYPICALLY used in law enforcement, fire departments, and other industrial settings, but that doesn't mean some there are SOME consumer level users.
I didn't mean to mischaracterise you or your usage, nor did I intend to make you feel left out. But as a matter of practicality, I can not 100% covert ever single user's individual use case scenario, I can merely comment on what I generally see in each segment of the consumer base. There will always be overlap.
So you're not left out...you're special.
---------- Post added at 11:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 AM ----------
This brings me back to my original point though. Forget productivity, if you just use the Note series for top tier specs, then what exactly do you expect them to do with the S series? There's a 6 month difference between the Note and S series release. We are a point in time when even YEARLY updates are merely incremental. There's no large leaps forward.
So again, we would have to ask Samsung to purposely gimp the S Series and alienate at least half (if not more) of their user base to make us happy so we have the best and toppest of top tier.
I mean they gimped the Note 10 so the Plus would be better and Note fans are mad about that. So what do you expect the S Series fans to say or feel when Sammy does that to them?

Mr. Orange 645 said:
Which is why is said Note users "typically" use the phone for work and productivity.
The opposite is also true about the S series. They are TYPICALLY used used by just typical consumers, but are sometimes used for work and productivity.
Panasonic toughbook laptops are TYPICALLY used in law enforcement, fire departments, and other industrial settings, but that doesn't mean some there are SOME consumer level users.
I didn't mean to mischaracterise you or your usage, nor did I intend to make you feel left out. But as a matter of practicality, I can not 100% covert ever single user's individual use case scenario, I can merely comment on what I generally see in each segment of the consumer base. There will always be overlap.
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I wouldn't even say typically without some kind of numbers.
Given the community I've observed from the note 2 on, maybe it started that way when it was more of a niche phone but after iPhone started making larger phones and it become more mainstream, more consumers started purchasing it. More casual users typical of the larger market
Samsung has enterprise device support for business and they push out last year's model of the basic S device.
Most of the Reddit users I come across don't seem like business users. I mean some are sprinkled here and there, but I wouldn't say the trend is towards professionals..
Im working for a company that builds drones and space shuttles and your options for work phones that the company will pay for and allow on our Network are the S8 and some iphone.
The tough book example doesn't really work because that isn't really a big consumer device at all. You're paying for a rugged platform that is a LOT more than its consumer counterpart minus the military spec'd ruggedness. Samsung wants everyone to have this phone.
This reminds me of the people that would state that Nexus devices were for devs, but it was only people in the forum, Google never advertised that way because it's a great way to scare away sales..