How to stop OTA updates (on a rooted TWN H815)? - G4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

I have a Taiwanese H815 which I have rooted using the injection method. I frequently get a software update notification, but the update always fails because the phone is rooted. In the Software Update screen I have unchecked "Check automatically" and "Auto-install updates", but this doesn't stop me getting a software update notification every day or so.
How can I stop these software update notifications?

http://forum.xda-developers.com/g4/general/disable-ota-t3131493
Here you go mate.

azZA_09 said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/g4/general/disable-ota-t3131493
Here you go mate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for that. Unfortunately when I dial that number I don't get a "wifi test" option. The only options are:
- Device Test
- ELT Test
- SVC Menu
- Field Test
???

itm said:
Thanks for that. Unfortunately when I dial that number I don't get a "wifi test" option. The only options are:
- Device Test
- ELT Test
- SVC Menu
- Field Test
???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go to Field Test

azZA_09 said:
Go to Field Test
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK I found the OTA option under Field Test, disabled it and......got another OTA update notification a few hours later :0(

itm said:
OK I found the OTA option under Field Test, disabled it and......got another OTA update notification a few hours later :0(
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, why don't you factory reset phone, allow all OTAs and then root and so on. You can root both LL/MM now
---------- Post added at 07:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 PM ----------
azZA_09 said:
Well, why don't you factory reset phone, allow all OTAs and then root and so on. You can root both LL/MM now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sry, not factory reset, use LGUP and upgrade option. Search the forum for LGUP or tell me and I'll explain you step by step. Cheers

The factory reset wouldn't remove root, so the OTA would still fail. It's a Taiwan model and I've been told it's not possible to get MM and root on it.

azZA_09 said:
Well, why don't you factory reset phone, allow all OTAs and then root and so on. You can root both LL/MM now
---------- Post added at 07:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 PM ----------
Sry, not factory reset, use LGUP and upgrade option. Search the forum for LGUP or tell me and I'll explain you step by step. Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've looked at the LGUP thread and it seems to require installation of TWRP. I don't think this is possible on the Taiwan model as the bootloader can't currently be unlocked. Is that right?

http://forum.xda-developers.com/g4/general/unlock-list-lg-g4-variants-unlocked-t3262621 Check this

azZA_09 said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/g4/general/unlock-list-lg-g4-variants-unlocked-t3262621 Check this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I'd seen that thread - TWN isn't on the list of models that can be unlocked (

Check PM
---------- Post added at 07:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:26 PM ----------
In the last situation, I suggest you backup messages,phone history, photos etc, do a factory reset with LGUP ( it will remove root, trust me, but find your correct .kdz), do all the updates, then root...

azZA_09 said:
Check PM
---------- Post added at 07:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:26 PM ----------
In the last situation, I suggest you backup messages,phone history, photos etc, do a factory reset with LGUP ( it will remove root, trust me, but find your correct .kdz), do all the updates, then root...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. I'm not actually interested in doing the updates (unless I could actually upgrade to MM and root it, which I've been told is impossible for the TWN model). I just want to suppress the daily system update notifications.
Thanks for the link in your PM. I've tried the "Disable Service" app mentioned in the thread, and it indicated that the SystemUpdateService (in Google Services Framework) was already disabled on my phone- maybe because I followed the instructions earlier in this thread? I have no idea why I'm still getting a daily system update notification. It's annoying because I can't just swipe it away like a normal notification - I have to go into the System Update screen, select the update option then abort it (every day!)

itm said:
Thanks. I'm not actually interested in doing the updates (unless I could actually upgrade to MM and root it, which I've been told is impossible for the TWN model). I just want to suppress the daily system update notifications.
Thanks for the link in your PM. I've tried the "Disable Service" app mentioned in the thread, and it indicated that the SystemUpdateService (in Google Services Framework) was already disabled on my phone- maybe because I followed the instructions earlier in this thread? I have no idea why I'm still getting a daily system update notification. It's annoying because I can't just swipe it away like a normal notification - I have to go into the System Update screen, select the update option then abort it (every day!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe you can go to settings-apps-find something like "system update" and deslect show notifications. On Sony/HTC ROMs they have this option.

azZA_09 said:
Go to Field Test
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
azZA_09 said:
Maybe you can go to settings-apps-find something like "system update" and deslect show notifications. On Sony/HTC ROMs they have this option.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't really find anything in the apps list, but did a force stop on the "Remote Support Service" app, so I'll see if that makes any difference....

Related

Just bought new epic

I just bought a new epic and received it in the mail. I want to root it because ive rooted every other phone ive owned. I see something that sprint just came out with new update yesterday or the day before. Whats the best way to root it?. Should i activate it first then root or root before i activate?
If it were me I'd activate, update profile and prl then root and rom it...
Enjoy...
There is a How to that you can use to flash the rooted version of the update.
I don't think it matters if you activate.
Why not activate it and start enjoying the phone while you figure it out?
thanks guys whats the easiest way to root?
newtonfb said:
thanks guys whats the easiest way to root?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you check out the how to's?
---------- Post added at 03:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 PM ----------
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1268548
jmejiaa said:
Did you check out the how to's?
---------- Post added at 03:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 PM ----------
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1268548
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The new root is much better as it doesnt trigger the yellow triangle....
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1342728
You dont have to download additional apps just the root tool. It will root your current setup so nothing really changes besides adding root. Just select option a then option c and your done.
MikeC84 said:
The new root is much better as it doesnt trigger the yellow triangle....
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1342728
You dont have to download additional apps just the root tool. It will root your current setup so nothing really changes besides adding root. Just select option a then option c and your done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would second this method as well. Do you know what software version your phone came with, just curious...
MikeC84 said:
The new root is much better as it doesnt trigger the yellow triangle....
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1342728
You dont have to download additional apps just the root tool. It will root your current setup so nothing really changes besides adding root. Just select option a then option c and your done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks man really appreciate it
If you havent already, Check out qbking77 on youtube. He just posted a video using the automated root method. There's also plenty of other helpful videos if you need help flashing roms and etc. Definetly check his channel out if you're new to rooting/flashing

Moto Z Play not upgrading to Nougat. Help.

I received the notification to upgrade to 7.0 this morning and as I was downloading I was notified I did not have enough space. After making space on my phone the notification does no show nor do I get the suggestions in the "System Updates". Whenever I try to update it tells me "Your device's software is up to date." even though it is still running 6.0. What do I do, I've tried a hard reset.
pineapplefun101 said:
I received the notification to upgrade to 7.0 this morning and as I was downloading I was notified I did not have enough space. After making space on my phone the notification does no show nor do I get the suggestions in the "System Updates". Whenever I try to update it tells me "Your device's software is up to date." even though it is still running 6.0. What do I do, I've tried a hard reset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What Model is your phone?
Carrier? Do you have an SD card installed?
ironbesterer said:
Carrier? Do you have an SD card installed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No SD installed and it is an unlocked phone the carrier is Consumer Cellular.
aviwdoowks said:
What Model is your phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its a Moto Z Play unlocked, That's all I could really find through the "about phone". (I apologize I'm a noob).
pineapplefun101 said:
No SD installed and it is an unlocked phone the carrier is Consumer Cellular.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Post a screen shot of about phone
Settings
About
The device is unlocked, which means it is RETUS. Flashing VZW firmware on it won't let you be able to take updates. The update is controlled through the carrier
ironbesterer said:
The device is unlocked, which means it is RETUS. Flashing VZW firmware on it won't let you be able to take updates. The update is controlled through the carrier
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is your screen dirty?
Lol
Who said anything about vzw firmware?
aviwdoowks said:
Is your screen dirty?
Lol
Who said anything about vzw firmware?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh look at the baseband. ADDISON_VZW_CUST.
Do you need glasses?
ironbesterer said:
Uh look at the baseband. ADDISON_VZW_CUST.
Do you need glasses?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Friend, that's my SS.
He 'fest he was a noob so I posted mine as a tutorial
aviwdoowks said:
Friend, that's my SS.
He 'fest he was a noob so I posted mine as a tutorial
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My mistake. I thought it was posted by the OP. I misread your post.
ironbesterer said:
The device is unlocked, which means it is RETUS. Flashing VZW firmware on it won't let you be able to take updates. The update is controlled through the carrier
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does this mean I have to contact my carrier about the update since its controlled through them?
http://i.imgur.com/w0mMKGK.png
Heres the settings
i guess your carrier will be late with updates, they mostly are. At least my old one was.
That is why i bought the phone without a carrier to get updates early and i got it 4 days ago. workes pretty good
pineapplefun101 said:
Does this mean I have to contact my carrier about the update since its controlled through them?
http://i.imgur.com/w0mMKGK.png
Heres the settings
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See if you can find the .xml.zip original firmware and flash it with RSD lite.
Are you bootloader unlocked?
aviwdoowks said:
See if you can find the .xml.zip original firmware and flash it with RSD lite.
Are you bootloader unlocked?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I am not bootloader unlocked currently. Currently installing RSD lite and going to see if i can find the xml. Do I need to be bootloader unlocked to flash the firmware?
pineapplefun101 said:
No, I am not bootloader unlocked currently. Currently installing RSD lite and going to see if i can find the xml. Do I need to be bootloader unlocked to flash the firmware?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No
I can't seem to find the original .xml to flash it with, is there an alternative way I can get it???
pineapplefun101 said:
I can't seem to find the original .xml to flash it with, is there an alternative way I can get it???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This must be it, no?
https://mirrors.lolinet.com/firmware/moto/addison/official/RETUS/
...49-4
---------- Post added at 04:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:35 PM ----------
Here too
http://www.getdroidtips.com/moto-z-play-stock-firmware-collection/
---------- Post added at 04:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 PM ----------
I hope the baseband is right.
Abbra kaddabra @flashallthetime
I have not flashed in years. Would you help here?
Ty
aviwdoowks said:
This must be it, no?
https://mirrors.lolinet.com/firmware/moto/addison/official/RETUS/
...49-4
---------- Post added at 04:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:35 PM ----------
Here too
http://www.getdroidtips.com/moto-z-play-stock-firmware-collection/
---------- Post added at 04:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 PM ----------
I hope the baseband is right.
Abbra kaddabra @flashallthetime
I have not flashed in years. Would you help here?
Ty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you trying to do? All you need to do is flash only the 10 sparsechunks, OEM and boot.img

Help please - XT1789-05 - Nash Retail China

Friends, my device after upgrading to Oreo, Android 8.0.0, the device can not find more network, it recognizes the chip, but the network does not go up, when I try to connect give the following error "disable the airplane mode to make a call "
Note: I already checked the IMEI, it is 100%, IMEI appears normally.
What do I do ?
CodeBryant said:
Friends, my device after upgrading to Oreo, Android 8.0.0, the device can not find more network, it recognizes the chip, but the network does not go up, when I try to connect give the following error "disable the airplane mode to make a call "
Note: I already checked the IMEI, it is 100%, IMEI appears normally.
What do I do ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When You boot into fastboot what does your baseband say? If it says not found, then you've found your culprit.
Let me know what you find out.
H411UCIN093NIC said:
When You boot into fastboot what does your baseband say? If it says not found, then you've found your culprit.
Let me know what you find out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BaseBand: M8998_20207.117.02.41-01.02R NRD
Go find 尘封之泪,Maybe she can solve it
---------- Post added at 09:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:01 AM ----------
If you are in China (I feel that you are Chinese)
潇霄小云 said:
Go find 尘封之泪,Maybe she can solve it
---------- Post added at 09:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:01 AM ----------
If you are in China (I feel that you are Chinese)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not Chinese, I'm Brazilian, but I know you're in control of problems, Can you help me?
emmmm。. You can try to install other rom to see, including I can give you her bbs forum, Google Chrome has a translation, maybe you can understand. She generally uses qq to communicate with people (in addition, the s version is called foreign garbage in China, because baseband and mobile wireless devices are not the best)

Xiaomi Mi A2 Lite (global version) - 4g network signal issue

Hello
I'm having an issue where the network icon in the statusbar is changing every few seconds. from completely empty bars to almost full. never all the way full. And this is with 4g.
I tried switching to 3g (same problem) and 2g and with 2g I get full signal but realy that's not an option, too slow internet etc..
Thankyou in advance.
Try the factory reset!
You will lose all data and settings.
Gumka1977 said:
Try the factory reset!
You will lose all data and settings.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay I just tried that, didn't work.
Have you tried updating the software to the latest version?
saedkebbeh said:
Have you tried updating the software to the latest version?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it is on android 9. System is up-to-date. Patch 1 april 2019 it says.
Silverstryfe said:
Yes, it is on android 9. System is up-to-date. Patch 1 april 2019 it says.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have read that if you install stock firmware through MiFlash (reinstall the firmware) the problem will be solved
---------- Post added at 08:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:14 PM ----------
I bought the phone last Saturday, at first I noticed that the signal on the 2nd Sim comes and goes, but after the update, for now, everything seems to be fine, I hope you get your issue sorted out
saedkebbeh said:
I have read that if you install stock firmware through MiFlash (reinstall the firmware) the problem will be solved
---------- Post added at 08:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:14 PM ----------
I bought the phone last Saturday, at first I noticed that the signal on the 2nd Sim comes and goes, but after the update, for now, everything seems to be fine, I hope you get your issue sorted out
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So it is not a phone problem but a software problem from android 9? And by after the update you mean by reinstalling that firmware?
Silverstryfe said:
So it is not a phone problem but a software problem from android 9? And by after the update you mean by reinstalling that firmware?
I'm not sure if I want to lose my warrenty this fast by rooting it already though.. Realy no other way to fix it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't say anything about rooting, just reinstall the firmware using MiFlash
saedkebbeh said:
I didn't say anything about rooting, just reinstall the firmware using MiFlash
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah it's not the same? My bad, sorry I don't know much about this. Can you help me out? I downloaded miflash tool, not sure what to do.
Silverstryfe said:
Ah it's not the same? My bad, sorry I don't know much about this. Can you help me out? I downloaded miflash tool, not sure what to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Search Google for this, there are many guides about this process

LGSafeGuard: New spyware from LG?

Today at 3am my phone on its own installed LGSafeGuard app. It's not in my launcher. I can't uninstall it. It's listed only as system app. I'm running latest available stock T-mobile rom, not rooted, not modified in any other way..
What the hell is that app? Another spyware app from LG?
LG Stylo 5 (LM-Q720PS) Not Rooted, Stock
It just now downloaded and installed without prompt. Very curious as to the functionality of the program.
Thanks.
Same here
Did a search and found nothing?! WTH?
Happened to me just now. LG V30, stock, on T-Mobile. WTF?
LGSafeguard
Version 1.0
887kb
It's the only stock LG app that is V 1.0 on the device.
May be this:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/new-cold-boot-attack-affects-seven-years-of-lg-android-smartphones/
ChazzMatt said:
May be this:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/new-cold-boot-attack-affects-seven-years-of-lg-android-smartphones/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LG haven't released security updates for V30 in literally over a year now.
I'd imagine security updates would come through the usual OS mechanisms, and not a forced app install at 3am. And wouldn't a bootloader update require a reboot afterwards? This spyware didn't require a reboot...
mxxcon said:
LG haven't released security updates for V30 in literally over a year now.
I'd imagine security updates would come through the usual OS mechanisms, and not a forced app install at 3am. And wouldn't a bootloader update require a reboot afterwards? This spyware didn't require a reboot...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't say it's a bootloader update. It says it's something to prevent bootloader hijacking. What form comes in, I don't know. But it seems to match the timeline.
The people so far getting it do not have the bootloaders unlocked yet and are not rooted. (EDIT: others are now getting it too, already with unlocked bootloaders.)
So far seems to be T-Mobile only, because T-Mobile has a bootloader unlock setting which actually works.
If you find out more or different information, please let us know.
The bootloader vulnerability seems like the likely reason this was installed on our devices. I have t-mobile version and this was installed on my device as well. I'm rooted with stock ROM.
There are two permissions associated with this software package:
android.permission.RECEIVE_BOOT_COMPLETED
com.lge.permission.RECEIVE_PACKAGE_ACTIONS
I originally disabled this apk as soon as it was installed before rebooting, but have since enabled it and it doesn't seem to affect anything.
LGSafeguard randomly installed. What is this ???
What is this app. It installed itself
jrsndr said:
There are two permissions associated with this software package:
android.permission.RECEIVE_BOOT_COMPLETED
com.lge.permission.RECEIVE_PACKAGE_ACTIONS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On my phone it doesn't have any permissions as shown in screenshot in OP ?
mxxcon said:
LG haven't released security updates for V30 in literally over a year now.
I'd imagine security updates would come through the usual OS mechanisms, and not a forced app install at 3am. And wouldn't a bootloader update require a reboot afterwards? This spyware didn't require a reboot...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So anything LG installs is spyware?
I guess some people love to be overdramatic drama queens....
Sent from my LG-H932 using XDA Labs
---------- Post added at 07:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 AM ----------
ChazzMatt said:
It doesn't say it's a bootloader update. It says it's something to prevent bootloader hijacking. What form comes in, I don't know. But it seems to match the timeline.
The people so far getting it do not have the bootloaders unlocked yet and are not rooted.
so far seems to be T-Mobile only, because T-Mobile has a bootloader unlock setting which actually works.
If you find out more or different information, please let us know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually got it too and my BL is unlocked.
Sent from my LG-H932 using XDA Labs
BROKEN1981 said:
So anything LG installs is spyware?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What legitimate software gets installed without prompting users, without giving ability to uninstall, without explaining what it is, without having a changelog, without having any documentation, without even having a proper icon?
I see reports that people on G8 and V40 get it installed too.
Still nothing from LG to explain what this is.
mxxcon said:
I see reports that people on G8 and V40 get it installed too.
Still nothing from LG to explain what this is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Still all T-mobile models or not?
---------- Post added at 08:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:48 AM ----------
BROKEN1981 said:
I actually got it too and my BL is unlocked.
Sent from my LG-H932 using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I edited my previous post since you and another reported to have unlocked bootloader, but still seems to be T-mobile models only unless others report.
---------- Post added at 09:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 AM ----------
mxxcon said:
What legitimate software gets installed without prompting users, without giving ability to uninstall, without explaining what it is, without having a changelog, without having any documentation, without even having a proper icon?
I see reports that people on G8 and V40 get it installed too.
Still nothing from LG to explain what this is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lots of system "apps" don't have icons nor ability to uninstall unless you are rooted. And no they don't have documentation. It's quite common. If rooted, look at the huge list of "apps" available in Titanium Backup for backup/restore. In that list, over half -- even those with LG in the name -- have generic green Android icon because there is no assigned icon. And of course they won't show up in your launcher.
This is why OCD debloating discussed in another thread is such a bad idea. You may not know what the system apps actually do and it may be something important. I'm not saying this is important -- I'm just saying no documentation, no icons is quite common for system apps.
ChazzMatt said:
I edited my previous post since you were now the first to have unlocked bootloader, but still seems to be T-mobile models only unless others report.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, @jsndr had already posted yesterday that they received it on their rooted, stock phone.
I am speculating that LG wrote this for all phones affected by the new bootloader vulnerability, but they depend on carriers to push it on the carrier models, and only T-Mobile bothered to do so.
The fact that we didn't see it on US998 (combined with other evidence) probably just confirms that LG considers it a US Cellular model rather than a true Open Market model.
If I still had my H932, I would just remove this using ADB uninstall. Along with SRTC, MLT, and com.tmobile.pr.adapt, all of which just slow down the phone and report home to LG/TMO about your actions.
OBVIOUSLY take a backup first
This just installed on my US998 on Verizon MVNO. BL unlocked rooted stock firmware...
jptV30 said:
This just installed on my US998 on Verizon MVNO. BL unlocked rooted stock firmware...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, so it really is being pushed by LG themselves. Thanks for reporting!
Edit: I see now that it was also waiting in my Update Center. I just never take any of those updates and never check there. Also US998 Oreo, rooted.
When I get some free time, I'll install it and see if I can find out which services it installs.
mxxcon said:
What legitimate software gets installed without prompting users, without giving ability to uninstall, without explaining what it is, without having a changelog, without having any documentation, without even having a proper icon?
I see reports that people on G8 and V40 get it installed too.
Still nothing from LG to explain what this is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm just tired of people changing the definitions of words.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spyware
Sent from my LG-H932 using XDA Labs
---------- Post added at 11:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 PM ----------
TheDannemand said:
Wow, so it really is being pushed by LG themselves. Thanks for reporting!
Edit: I see now that it was also waiting in my Update Center. I just never take any of those updates and never check there. Also US998 Oreo, rooted.
When I get some free time, I'll install it and see if I can find out which services it installs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I gave it a bit. It's showing no data used and no permissions requested.
Sent from my LG-H932 using XDA Labs
VS99620k here (rooted, BL unlocked), and I don't see it showing in the launcher. Do I need to look for it somewhere else?
schwinn8 said:
VS99620k here (rooted, BL unlocked), and I don't see it showing in the launcher. Do I need to look for it somewhere else?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On mine it was in Settings -> General -> Update center -> App updates. So pushed by LG.
While I am on US998, the phone IMEI is LS998 (if that's what they go by).
If you don't get it, no worries. I'm sure you're not missing anything :laugh:
TheDannemand said:
On mine it was in Settings -> General -> Update center -> App updates. So pushed by LG.
While I am on US998, the phone IMEI is LS998 (if that's what they go by).
If you don't get it, no worries. I'm sure you're not missing anything :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Available for download! Rooted native US998 V30+.
Hi everyone,
I found you when this software came on my phone on 8/25, and I went "What the crap is this now?" LOL.
I wanted to share that I have an LG G7 Fit, and my service is with Mint Mobile, who utilizes T-Mobile network. My initial thought is this might be some kind of tracker app for COVID contact tracing purposes? Or a precursor to a roll-out for it? I figure they likely wouldn't outright name it in such a way that we would know that, you know?

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