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I was amazed to read the policies of the next gen windows phone marketplace.
http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_...spx?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Especially the line:
"No limit to the number of paid apps submitted 5 free apps per registration, $19.99 each after that" .
And seeing that the only way to officially install apps on your wp7 phone is thru the marketplace, it will actually cost developpers money to provide them for free.
I assume microsoft really wants that 30% they get on paid apps. All i can say that this will discourage developers to create free apps and will encourage hackers to "jail break" wp7.
five apps per reg ... cmon only companies like resco or spb have more apps than that running at the same time ....
whats worse is this one :
Code:
Annual registration fee of $99
ull need to hand the suckers $100 for posting ONE free app
I suppose that'll keep only the serious developers in; hence improving overall apps quality. But seriously, the $99 annual fee is uncalled for.
An inclusion of an incentive of a waiver of this fee for achieving a sales target would be more effective for smaller players, and probably benefit Microsoft at the same time.
Probably to keep a lid on the number of free, junk apps. Makes the stores pretty hard to browse.
I wonder if an application with a 100% unlimited full trial mode counts as a "free" or a "paid" app. That would just be a good way to post donation-based apps...
I don't think that the 5 free app limit includes ad-supported apps.
vangrieg said:
I wonder if an application with a 100% unlimited full trial mode counts as a "free" or a "paid" app. That would just be a good way to post donation-based apps...
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All apps will have a trail mode already built in and won't be considered a free app.
you can see the Android App Market. All free apps.
Kloc said:
All apps will have a trail mode already built in and won't be considered a free app.
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Trial mode is optional. But anyway, here you go - if you have a hundred apps you want to distribute for free all you need to do is set up an optional price.
I'd imagine there'll be a (time?) limit to the trails.
It depends on the developer, MS don't dictate how and when the trial should expire or how it would limit functionality. So the point is - you can make an application that is fully functional in trial mode and doesn't have a time limit, yet has a price, which becomes optional. Kind of like a donation.
Good job vangrieg . Of course just to make sure they don't kill your app I would add something stupid that only the paid app gets. And/or you could just say that you'll give premium support to paid users.
Also, the beta program will almost certainly morph into an enterprise delivery program. The beta is timebombed but they haven't said how long that will be or how many users you can give the beta to.
greed
All this says is greed having all the apps only from one marketplace. The quality wont be better because your forced into buying from one store. Windows Phone7 will be hacked the moment it comes out.
zarpy said:
All this says is greed having all the apps only from one marketplace. The quality wont be better because your forced into buying from one store. Windows Phone7 will be hacked the moment it comes out.
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They $99 a year maybe greed but the centralized app store is not. The average user doesn't want to have to look on the internet at multiple sites to find an app and hell most of them probably don't know you can do that. By having a centralized store you make it easier for the consumer to find what they need and by doing that you make it easier for the developers applications to be found as well. It's a win win without the application fee but for people like me with dreamspark I won't have to worrie about that
The $99 also keeps people from submitting crap apps and clogging up the works. I think it's as much about that as it is about the money. MS will be making most of it's money off their 30% cut and that's why they're only allowing 5 free apps.
enadiz said:
I suppose that'll keep only the serious developers in; hence improving overall apps quality. But seriously, the $99 annual fee is uncalled for.
An inclusion of an incentive of a waiver of this fee for achieving a sales target would be more effective for smaller players, and probably benefit Microsoft at the same time.
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Just because the app costs money doesn't mean it will be anything but a quick and easy attempt to take your money. Many of the best apps are free because the developers actually care about what the community wants.
Many websites are free and provide mobile apps for better access. I don't think they will bother if they have to pay.
best games are free
The best games made are free like xtracts and IBCM. Alot of paid games are crappy only a few good ones like assasins creed 3D,prince of persia,marbelz blast,and tetris.
The inability to develop free apps is what will drive me away from Windows Mobile over to Android. And it'll be a move I won't be happy to make.
This isn't really about free or paid, it's about how MS are making money.
The whole Marketplace system is so Microsoft can make money, and with paid applications they take 30%, so make a profit. With free applications, they still have to certify them, process them, and host them, but they make no money on that, so they have to cover costs.
Microsoft have said that advertising etc is fine within free apps, so you can still make money out of free applications should you desire it.
Yes, and also you can still submit five free applications, which is more than an average developer has.
I think Rovio needs to be punished for taking so long to come to WP7. Pandas vs Ninjas is as good as Angry Birds so show support for Devs who support WP7!
Plus the fact that it's so cheap, will force Rovio/MS to reduce the price of Angry Birds. Otherwise they're toast.
I like Chicks 'n' Vixens.
digger1985 said:
Plus the fact that it's so cheap, will force Rovio/MS to reduce the price of Angry Birds. Otherwise they're toast.
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You guys are funny. They could price it $8 (which would be ridiculous) it would still be the best selling game on WP7, that's what you call the power of the brand. There are alternatives we know that but they're not Live enabled and again there's the power of the name "Angry Birds". Believe me Rovio and Microsoft won't feel no pressure at all.
^ Agreed. And for all the bs that Angry Birds takes.. I have yet to see a game come out as complete as it, and as addicting as it. Yes, Chicks n Vixens is cute, we understand that. And this Panda thing looks pretty nice too. But Angry Birds is on an entirely different level to be honest. They just have it down packed... And the fact that they've released so many updates, and have so many variations is ridiculous. I hope all of those come packaged for us...
FiyaFleye said:
^ Agreed. And for all the bs that Angry Birds takes.. I have yet to see a game come out as complete as it, and as addicting as it. Yes, Chicks n Vixens is cute, we understand that. And this Panda thing looks pretty nice too. But Angry Birds is on an entirely different level to be honest. They just have it down packed... And the fact that they've released so many updates, and have so many variations is ridiculous. I hope all of those come packaged for us...
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I think you mean down pat?
phoenixnr said:
I think you mean down pat?
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^ that - lol
FiyaFleye said:
And the fact that they've released so many updates, and have so many variations is ridiculous. I hope all of those come packaged for us...
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They won't. We are getting Poached Eggs, The Mighty Hoax, Danger Above, and The Big Setup. It was already announced that we're getting 195 levels, which is what those episodes contain.
We won't be getting Hang 'em High (45 levels), Rio (30 levels and counting) or Seasons (not sure how many levels), at least not now. They may come later, but they will unquestionably cost extra.
My guess is that the price we will see in the Marketplace when it hits next month will be $4.99, compared with $0.99 on iOS and $0 on Android.
RoboDad said:
They won't. We are getting Poached Eggs, The Mighty Hoax, Danger Above, and The Big Setup. It was already announced that we're getting 195 levels, which is what those episodes contain.
We won't be getting Hang 'em High (45 levels), Rio (30 levels and counting) or Seasons (not sure how many levels), at least not now. They may come later, but they will unquestionably cost extra.
My guess is that the price we will see in the Marketplace when it hits next month will be $4.99, compared with $0.99 on iOS and $0 on Android.
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Eh...I love Angry Birds, but I don't believe I would pay that much to play it on any platform. I'm already playing several versions of AB on my iPhone and Inspire. Playing it on WP7 just wouldn't be enough incentive to dish out the dough.
I know. I don't think it is worth that either, but it's being released as an Xbox Live title, and all of those are grossly overpriced. If they prove me wrong and release it at 99 cents, I'll happily eat some crow , but I seriously doubt that will happen.
I did find the enthusiasm to go ahead and install Pandas v Ninjas. Glad I did. It's a really nice controlling game. With some graphic and audio refinement...the ninja grunts are annoying...lol...it would be as good as AB.
I would totally pay 5 bucks for Angry Birds even though it's free on Android and $0.99 on iPhone... I just don't care too much about 5 dollars and the more money a developer can make on WP7, the more interest they'll have in developing for WP7. I spend $5 on one trip to Starbucks. For the hours of gameplay I get for $5, it's totally worth it.
Are people serious about not buying the game because it's a few dollars more on WP7 than on other platforms? Why would you pass up a great game because it's cheaper elsewhere? That's like choosing to not buy an XBox game at Gamestop because Wal-Mart has it cheaper... even though there's no Wal-Mart close to you.
thesecondsfade said:
Are people serious about not buying the game because it's a few dollars more on WP7 than on other platforms?
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Yes, I am serious about it. Multiply that "few dollars" by a few dozen apps, and you've just spent about A HUNDRED dollars more than someone who bought the same (or functionally similar) apps for an Android. Maybe you have enough disposable income to flush a casual hundred bucks down the Marketplace toilet, but I (and most other people) don't.
If the price of Angry Birds ends up being more than $2, I won't be buying it. Period.
RoboDad said:
Yes, I am serious about it. Multiply that "few dollars" by a few dozen apps, and you've just spent about A HUNDRED dollars more than someone who bought the same (or functionally similar) apps for an Android. Maybe you have enough disposable income to flush a casual hundred bucks down the Marketplace toilet, but I (and most other people) don't.
If the price of Angry Birds ends up being more than $2, I won't be buying it. Period.
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Let's be real here, you're being a little bit of an exaggerator here. How often do you honestly buy a $4 app? I can say I've only bought about 4, since November. The majority of them are 0.99 or free. Also, if $100 throughout a period of a year is going to harm you, maybe you shouldn't be owning a $600 device, just my opinion... Considering the hours I spent playing Angry Birds when I used Android, and how much I still play it on my girlfriend's phone, I rather spend $5 on that, which I can take anywhere, than the $60 I consistently spend on Xbox games, but that's just me.
I mean, to each their own, but these guys put in hundreds of hours to develop these apps, and deserve to profit from them, this IS their life. I have zero problems paying $5 for a game I'll probably play a couple of hours A DAY for a good time to come... Criticize it if you like, I just think you're going a little overboard with your explanation...
thesecondsfade said:
I would totally pay 5 bucks for Angry Birds even though it's free on Android and $0.99 on iPhone... I just don't care too much about 5 dollars and the more money a developer can make on WP7, the more interest they'll have in developing for WP7. I spend $5 on one trip to Starbucks. For the hours of gameplay I get for $5, it's totally worth it.
Are people serious about not buying the game because it's a few dollars more on WP7 than on other platforms? Why would you pass up a great game because it's cheaper elsewhere? That's like choosing to not buy an XBox game at Gamestop because Wal-Mart has it cheaper... even though there's no Wal-Mart close to you.
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Well...in my case, as tried to elude to, I already play several versions of AB on 2 different systems. If I was new to AB, I would gladly give the $5...probably...if I could.
But one thing MS needs to take into account is the fact that people find it much easier to impulsively drop a dollar on a game a lot where a $3, $4 or $5 game, they might want to, but will hesitate.
FiyaFleye said:
Let's be real here, you're being a little bit of an exaggerator here. How often do you honestly buy a $4 app? I can say I've only bought about 4, since November. The majority of them are 0.99 or free. Also, if $100 throughout a period of a year is going to harm you, maybe you shouldn't be owning a $600 device, just my opinion... Considering the hours I spent playing Angry Birds when I used Android, and how much I still play it on my girlfriend's phone, I rather spend $5 on that, which I can take anywhere, than the $60 I consistently spend on Xbox games, but that's just me.
I mean, to each their own, but these guys put in hundreds of hours to develop these apps, and deserve to profit from them, this IS their life. I have zero problems paying $5 for a game I'll probably play a couple of hours A DAY for a good time to come... Criticize it if you like, I just think you're going a little overboard with your explanation...
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They deserve to profit because they put a lot of effort into it? What world do you live in? If everyone profited off hard work there would be no poverty and bankrupt businesses. It's about what you give the customer in terms of value and service; I could care less how much effort they put into it.
The fact is not everyone is the same. You can't say someone is ridiculous because they won't spend $5 on a game. People have different priorities. $5 might be low to some and a lot to others.
I wouldn't pay more than $1.99 for Angry Birds. Yes it would be nice for devs to make more money on this platform, but at the same time why buy a windows phone if it were to become known that you are always going to pay more for apps.
I'm not saying it will definitely be like that, but down the road if I know buying an iphone or android phone means that apps and games will cheaper for the most part I'd go for that.
cgibsong002 said:
They deserve to profit because they put a lot of effort into it? What world do you live in? If everyone profited off hard work there would be no poverty and bankrupt businesses. It's about what you give the customer in terms of value and service; I could care less how much effort they put into it.
The fact is not everyone is the same. You can't say someone is ridiculous because they won't spend $5 on a game. People have different priorities. $5 might be low to some and a lot to others.
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Obviously your priorities wouldn't be aligned properly if you were paying for one of the most expensive smartphones, with a smartphone plan, and then complained about $5 -_-
The put effort, and make an incredibly valuable game. Angry Birds is one of the few games ever created with unlimited lasting value. You trying to dig deep and overanalyze my comments doesn't take away from it being worth every penny of $4.99
cgibsong002 said:
They deserve to profit because they put a lot of effort into it? What world do you live in? If everyone profited off hard work there would be no poverty and bankrupt businesses. It's about what you give the customer in terms of value and service; I could care less how much effort they put into it.
The fact is not everyone is the same. You can't say someone is ridiculous because they won't spend $5 on a game. People have different priorities. $5 might be low to some and a lot to others.
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Please get off your soap box... we're talking about Angry Birds, a stupid video game on a mobile phone. Microsoft Marketplace apps generally do not have to compete with piracy on a large scale. That's what those other platforms have to compete with which is why they price their apps lower... not by choice, but by necessity. The more money a developer can charge the better in my opinion. $4.99 brings in enough revenue for 5 customers paying $0.99. I'd presume a $0.99 price point would not create 5 times as many customers. It's all about economics dude. If $5 is too much for someone paying $30/month for data plus another $30 for a voice plan, I don't know what to say to that person other than maybe don't buy the app.
And don't you mean couldn't care less?
To the other dude talking about $100 for 12 apps... What formula are you using to calculate that figure? Be realistic. Even paying $4 more for every app would land you at $48 total, not $100. Stop with the hyperbole.
thesecondsfade said:
To the other dude talking about $100 for 12 apps... What formula are you using to calculate that figure? Be realistic. Even paying $4 more for every app would land you at $48 total, not $100. Stop with the hyperbole.
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Wow. The only response I can offer to this comment is, learn to read.
I found that there are heaps of good developers for WP7,but one problem is that they seem like don't know wp7 still in an early adopting stage and they still set the price of the apps f**king expensive....
please share your experince here.
I have bought Fantasia painter 1 month ago,it was AUD$1.30,and today I checked the price of the app,it has became AUD$7.50,almost 6-folded.jeeez........Who gonna buy this app? I could buy tiny wings+angry birds+imovie on my iphone...........
another app is Tweetcaster,this app is funny...it costs us AUD$6.50...but with ad-supported...f**k...it is the price of birdsong+motweets+supertube.....
WP7 has good apps,but epic fail pricing.......
They will learn quick when nobody buys them. Eventually when there are a lot more apps, they will have more competition, and lower prices.
dtboos said:
They will learn quick when nobody buys them. Eventually when there are a lot more apps, they will have more competition, and lower prices.
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Hope so...
However, from what I saw is that they keep increase the prices...another example is motweets,it rose from AUD$1.30 to AUD$3.00...
A lot of these developers do this to keep ads out of the app & to pay for push notification services... I do see this dropping though, as apps will be able to update the tile in the background, from the app, not from a notification service.. As far as I've been told.
Well, hopefully enough people choose not to pay more than a reasonable amount. If their sales go down, they will have to lower the price. I think the post-Mango era will be better as there will be much more competition with many more dev's.
I doubt people don't pay for the apps. If the app warrants a price, I definitely don't mind paying for it, and I'm sure most users won't. XDA is just used to free & pirated things... We had this conversation in the Angry Birds thread not too long ago lol
FiyaFleye said:
I doubt people don't pay for the apps. If the app warrants a price, I definitely don't mind paying for it, and I'm sure most users won't. XDA is just used to free & pirated things... We had this conversation in the Angry Birds thread not too long ago lol
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Of course we don't mind to pay for some good apps,but now we're talking something about overpricing...plus AUD is stronger than USD now,we still paying more...
FYI
Iphone-0.99USD app is 1.19AUD in Australia
WP7-0.99USD app is 1.30AUD in Australia
apps with higher prices the gap becoming bigger...
I have something like 15+ paid for apps. But I won't pay absurd amounts, nor amounts 3x higher than the same dev's charges for the same thing on another platform.
No customers. Its a tiny market right now, price will drop as more consumers get on board and make some purchases.
High prices? You must be kidding.
are you trolling or you're bill gates' son huh??stick to the topic man.
"Good business" does not mean racing to the bottom. In fact, since the customer base of WP is small right now, alot of devs are charging higher prices. If I can sell 1 app at 2.99, as opposed to 2 @ .99, I'd rather sell for 2.99.
As the customer base expands, prices will start to drop. You should look up economies of scale... If intel was only selling 2,000 processors a year, those processors would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Since they sell so many, they achieve economies of scale and can reduce the price.
You'll see the same thing happen with Windows Phone.
courtlandre said:
"Good business" does not mean racing to the bottom. In fact, since the customer base of WP is small right now, alot of devs are charging higher prices. If I can sell 1 app at 2.99, as opposed to 2 @ .99, I'd rather sell for 2.99.
As the customer base expands, prices will start to drop. You should look up economies of scale... If intel was only selling 2,000 processors a year, those processors would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Since they sell so many, they achieve economies of scale and can reduce the price.
You'll see the same thing happen with Windows Phone.
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Of course,I know that...before you using these scales,you have to think about the consumer behaviour.
let's talk about the fantasia painter
it is 1.30AUD 1 month ago...
and it is 7.5AUD now...
almost six folded,lets say the sales of the app was,600 in last month,now you increases your price 6 times of the original price,it does not means that your sales would be 100 now.Since the price is already over its utilities,the sales might be dropped to 20 or maybe 30...So,it is better to stay at 1.3AUD price,you have to consider the consumer incomes and market penetration.
For example,the 1st 2 months,all of your sales are come from those developed countries,and now these markets already saturated,however, you increased the price now,which is over the expected price of consumer,then your sales in those lower income countries will decrease(WP7 marketplace not just supporting 1 country now)....this move is just no difference with suicide.Furthermore,economic does not take goodwill and reputation into account,these are the loss too.
Anyway,what I want to say is that they set their price higher than the utilities of the apps or the expected value of consumers...Furthermore,apps are not necessity goods.
^ you have to remember, they have cost too. They have bills, and some want to recoup their investment
to clarify, fantasia painter is 5.99 USD, that converts to 5.60 AUD. You say it's 7.50 AUD, so you are paying 1.90 AUD more; that's equal to 2.03 USD premium for that app. Why is their an international premium, IDK, but there is. Is this different on other OS?
Why the app price went up, I can't say. They do offer a free version of Fantasia Painter. Do you have access to the free app?
We have all known since the beggining that the WP7 apps are more expensive than the same apps on other OS. That's just part of the deal right now, and as many have said, as more devices are sold, and more apps are sold, and more api's are opened, and more apps are made, the competition will undoubtedly bring the app prices more in line with the other OS apps.
So, really, you seem to be complaining about three different, but related, issues.
1. WP7 apps are more expensive - yup. sometimes they are. There are lots of threads about this.
2. Some Apps prices sometimes go up - IDK why this is, but maybe it's to cover the R&D that continues. Have you contacted the creator to ask why? There may be a very resonable explanation.
3. There is a premium for international sales - there is at least one other thread about this already. IDK why international sales have a premium, but they do provide some explanation in those threads.
Thanks for your statements,actually I do owned the paid version of fantasia painter 1or 2months ago,when it was 0.99USD,which was 1.30AUD.
Another example was tweetcaster.Luckily I downloaded it when there is a trial version available,IMO it is the fastest twitter app at the moment(faster than bird song and motweets pro I can tell).However,the price is 6.50AUD now.
These situations make me want to buy all the good apps when the prices are low,such as Supertube,it is 1.70AUD now,I think it gonna increases to a high price,but I hope it won't.
In this thread,I hope users can share their experiences and any good apps which are overpriced,just share it here.I know developers are listen to us.
sylau90 said:
are you trolling or you're bill gates' son huh??stick to the topic man.
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No, I'm not a billionnaire. But spending 5 bucks on a good app isn't "expensive". Actually, it doesn't make much difference whether it's $5 or $.99 as far as I'm concerned. Especially if there's a decently functional trial.
I completely aggree. Some of the most pointless apps are like $5 even when there are several of the same type of app for free.
I don't know. It seems like most apps I've come across are a reasonable price.
I just released an app Catch Phrase Party for $2.99 - Now that may seem like a steep price for a non 3D RPG or something. But at the same time, when you realize the less convenient/less up to date alternative is $20 - suddenly my app seems like a decent deal.
My justification aside, I guess we will see if it sales. Maybe I'm seeing it wrong. But both as a developer and consumer, I try to keep a level head about it. I have paid $10 for an app (Geocaching) because there were no decent alternatives. But most of the time I can find a version of the app I want for free, or a good version for what is reasonable. But I do expect things to be slightly more expensive on WP than on iPhone because of the smaller customer base. The developers need to make their money for their work. I can understand that!
As I said,developer listens to us...
Today fantasia painter price dropped from 7.50AUD to 3.00AUD...
Awesome...
you wonder why so many people go and use android and iphone...
microsoft doesnt have any proper marketing strategies i mean the games are overpriced, the apps are still at a low number and there is no real freedom in this os.
dont get me wrong im a user of wp7 and i was excited by the phone but the more they release things the more disappointed i am. you arent paying for games like angry birds and plants vs zombies your basically paying ridiculous prices to use their xbl feature.
i think that if they want to break into the market they should really consider making these games free i know its unfair to the developers but think about how much more people would be interested to hear that they can get free proper games or apps.
but if you want to go and tell these developers to develop games for your os then i think they should make it free like what google did with angry birds although they paid them a butt load of money. microsoft is trying to compete with people that have been in the market for longer making these things free would surely attract more people.
well thats what i think, share your thoughts
There are lots of free apps in the marketplace already. What's your point?
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Making Angry Birds free is not going to sell handsets. Having a feature complete phone (Mango) and sales reps that are actually willing to sell Windows Phones will be what will move handsets.
Once you start working for free, let us know then we'll take your point up with Microsoft and the developers who will obviously be ecstatic to forgo any charges for their work.
my point isnt saying there isnt any free apps.. its saying maybe instead of jacking up prices so high they should focus on reasonable prices, its because its xbl integrated that they charging so high
as i said their marketing sucks.. im simply saying that if they think about what users want and how they should take android and iphone as examples.
once i start working for free?
what you on about? if they willing to spend 8bil on skype and not even integrate it on wp7 why cant they spend few hundred k on developers to bring in more apps and games...
they're learning... they can't copy apple snobbishness or androids openness... they need something new fresh, different. give them time, they'll find a niche eventually.
As I said...Microsoft marketing sucks
compared this two sites
Microsoft
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/features/whats-next.aspx
Apple
http://www.apple.com/ios/ios5/
Both coming this fall....IMO,microsoft is not working aggressive as apple does...in apple ios5 site,it has almost everything...gallery,video,features,notify me function....Microsoft one is just looks like they are not ready....
Sumunk said:
you wonder why so many people go and use android and iphone...
microsoft doesnt have any proper marketing strategies i mean the games are overpriced, the apps are still at a low number and there is no real freedom in this os.
dont get me wrong im a user of wp7 and i was excited by the phone but the more they release things the more disappointed i am. you arent paying for games like angry birds and plants vs zombies your basically paying ridiculous prices to use their xbl feature.
i think that if they want to break into the market they should really consider making these games free i know its unfair to the developers but think about how much more people would be interested to hear that they can get free proper games or apps.
but if you want to go and tell these developers to develop games for your os then i think they should make it free like what google did with angry birds although they paid them a butt load of money. microsoft is trying to compete with people that have been in the market for longer making these things free would surely attract more people.
well thats what i think, share your thoughts
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if they make games for free , they either pay the developers or screw them.
if they screw the developers no one is going to make more applications for wp7....
and really... the phones costs like 500 dollars, paying 50 dollars more for your apps is not unreasonable.....
and of course that microsoft marketing sucks compared to apple, apple is the most successful marketing company in the world. ofcourse this does not make it impossible for Microsoft to improve
I'd rather they charge $2.99 so that we have more high quality games and apps on our phones. It's not that much money...less than a burger king meal.
...you have 2 different kind of points:
a) Apps prices: This is not Microsoft's responsability. The prices are fixed by the developers of the apps. Marketplace is just the site who makes it possilbe for you to purchase them.
b) Microsoft marketing: Yes, in this respect, they are still far behind Apple. But you have to consider that Microsoft has not the same market approach like Apple.
- Apple has their own sales outlets
- Apple has a big influence regarding marketing and advertising budgets with their retail partners. Apple dictates what they have to do and what they have to spend.
- Same applies to the selected providers who sell Apple products.
Microsoft is in partnership with the device makers and the providers and depending on them. Now who is responsible for the marketing? Mircrosoft? The Makers? The Providers? Microsoft startet with a budget of 500 Mio $. But this is peanuts for a global campaign to introduce something totally new and from what I can see at least here in Europe, the Makers and the Providers are still very reluctant to invest their money in promoting WP7
Well, technically Microsoft does set the prices of XBL games, since they all are published under the "Microsoft Games Studios" banner.
As far as "free" games "screwing" developers or resulting in lower quality, remember that the most sought-after game that has just been released on WP7 is a port of a game that is already available on the other platforms at a lower price, with more levels. Oh, and according to most recent data, Rovio is earning about a million dollars a month from the ads in the free Android version. That doesn't exactly sound like they are getting "screwed" to me.
I was in long Island, NY last week listening to a rock station as I was traveling through. I heard 3 Windows Phone 7 commercals on the radio. It was on aAir plane and they discusses something about powering off phones incuding you with the new Windows Phone (and a few others got in a WOW type thing about the phone)
Same commercal 3 times, it was for the Verizon HTC Trophy (didn't think Verizon cared about it that much)
This would be the first time I heard a Radio ad, I've seen tons on TV tho...
As for the App costs, I will agree, anything over $2.99 for a mobile app or game is WAY too much. MAYBE in a rare case for a High end game (big brand name with the game to back it up) $3.99-$4.99 is acceptable, in a RARE CASE. $6.99 for Sonic is crazy, not for a game (tried the demo) that should just be a flashback game($1.99) as it plays just like the 16bit sega system did.
FTC said:
...you have 2 different kind of points:
a) Apps prices: This is not Microsoft's responsability. The prices are fixed by the developers of the apps. Marketplace is just the site who makes it possilbe for you to purchase them.
...<snip>
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Actually I think they did. When Microsoft released the first few games (before lots of developer "good games" came in), some were at $4.99 (think ilomilo and few other of the release games) , so developers said, Microsoft can do it, why can't we ?
If they started out with new games at $1.99 or $2.99 I bet it would of set a standard because no one wanted to be that crazy over priced person that does not sell any programs. Now you see $4.99-6.99 the norm for mid line games and I still think that's nuts for a phone game (if it was xbox live on my 360 in 720p/1080p with 5.1 audio, it's different and worth that or more)
So it's okay that you spend a thousand dollars every year to use your smartphone, but omg they better not charge more than $2.99 for an app!
AT&T 450 minutes + unlimited text + 2GB data = $85 + fees and taxes (about $5) = $90 a month
$90 x 12 months = $1080 a year
And that's for the cheapest talk plan they have.
honestly some of you guys have good points and some of you dont have good points..
its not about spending how much on a contract.. thats kinda what you bought the phone for, its not about spending alot on games either its about what microsoft is trying to do, being different sometimes isnt a good thing as it leads to un-satisfied customers and thus leading to people changing back to android or iphone.
i believe they can still come out right after they listen to their customers.
reasonable prices for reasonable games.
and if you wanna say angry birds is worth it, guess again its missing the new chapters.. its only got 1 - 4.. wheres the rest.. is this the best that they could do for MS? wheres seasons and rio?
Marketing:
Yes the WP7 marketing hasn't been the best. The onslaught hasn't fully started yet though - I believe they are waiting first for year close and stronger marketing from their favorite partner... Nokia.
I expect Mango marketing will be better but they haven't quite hit stride - this is less then a year out with limited hardware... just give it some time.
App prices... yes they are high - simple fact is NUMBERS. App Devs will charge what they can get away with. WP7 want the apps and they are willing to pay the prices for them. As the device count spreads the pricing may begin to drop to attract other users who have not downloaded because of cost.
We are here at the beginning so of course we'll get hit the hardest
Microsoft marketing is horrendous. I've had 5 WinMo devices, too long complacent with the incremental changes. They had a market to themselves but had let others run away with it. The large oceanliner that is Microsoft takes so long to change heading. I was looking forward to WP7, and when it first came out at Verizon, I went to check it out. I've been to 4 VZ stores and none of them have the phone activated. NONE! I can't check out IE to browse anything. How is that supposed to sell anyone? I tried to contact Microsoft about the fact that their demo phones aren't even activated, but instead I got some rep from another country. I told him to escalate it to his manager, provided my info, but no one has gotten back to me. I went back to another VZ store and still... the demo WP7 had no service.
I'm quite upset about it, but I'm not above switching away from WinMo until Microsoft gets a clue with what to do with all the money they make.
I'm going to give calling Microsoft a final shot and see if I can get some fat exec to listen to me.
Sumunk said:
honestly some of you guys have good points and some of you dont have good points..
its not about spending how much on a contract.. thats kinda what you bought the phone for, its not about spending alot on games either its about what microsoft is trying to do, being different sometimes isnt a good thing as it leads to un-satisfied customers and thus leading to people changing back to android or iphone.
i believe they can still come out right after they listen to their customers.
reasonable prices for reasonable games.
and if you wanna say angry birds is worth it, guess again its missing the new chapters.. its only got 1 - 4.. wheres the rest.. is this the best that they could do for MS? wheres seasons and rio?
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I'm going to quote a conversation here:
I confess Instapaper is pretty interesting to me, it's just not worth $4.99 to me. I would probably buy it for $0.99. I realize that's really cheap, but Apple has really trained me that stuff should be free (or $0.99 at most).
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This attitude blows my mind.. but you aren't alone.
Any app on App Store that isn't 99 cents is littered with reviews demanding that it should be 99 cents.. even if it's only 1.99.
Really.. mind blown. It's seriously de-valuing the concept of a software application.. and making it really hard for me to believe the hype in the mobile industry.
I saw some articles even about Angry Birds profitability.. they mentioned some company investing almost $50 million in Roxio.. but they also mentioned the game hasn't even made $10 million in sales.. although it does allegedly generate $1 million a month in revenue from ads on Android... they said the most profitable part of Roxio is their toy and other item sales.
The numbers don't add up for me.. I get that the budget is small.. but it's still an industry limited by the price consumers are demanding.
ALL of App Store did $1.7 billion in 2010? And that's 350,000 apps?
That's less than $5,000 per app...
By the time Call of Duty Black Ops is a year old.. it will probably have done the same revenue that all of App Store did in 2010... it's already most likely fairly close.
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Also, this is interesting:
i.imgur.com/8bbmJ.jpg
DavidinCT said:
If they started out with new games at $1.99 or $2.99 I bet it would of set a standard because no one wanted to be that crazy over priced person that does not sell any programs. Now you see $4.99-6.99 the norm for mid line games and I still think that's nuts for a phone game (if it was xbox live on my 360 in 720p/1080p with 5.1 audio, it's different and worth that or more)
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The average price is actually $2.99 for most games (AUD3.99 here in Australia), but I'm not sure if I understand your logic. How does the platform you play the game on change it's worth?
This platfrom has a lot of potential, but MS needs to listen to its users.
App prices are not the reason it will fail. I'm sorry but as a developer my time is worth more than $0.99 Those that think otherwise have no programming experience. Sure can I make millions off of one good app that is 99 cents or free, YES, but the odds of that happening are slim with how many apps come out.
Their marketing is what will kill this platform. well that along with not listening to the needs of the users. The notification system is now going to be behind the other 2 major players and that is not good for heavy users.
They need to fix their endpoint sales. Very few sales reps are excited about the platform.
I have one friend that bought a wp7, focus I think, and he hates it. I keep saying wait for the update, but the update is missing features he wants. The sad thing is they are features that are easily to implement. missing feattures is a whole differnt thread, but he just wants the ability to group his apps kinda like the contacts can be grouped now. The letter search is not a good approach because that requires me to search by name instead of function.
I have SGS and Optimus 7.
Almost every app, that i use in android i can use in wp too.
Only problem, for now, i can't buy apps yet, but that will be fixed when marketplace opens in Finland.
Soon nothing won't keep me on android.
There is so much trash apps on android market, so it is hard to find really important apps.
If there is one thing that everyone knows in the smart phone world, its that when Apple releases a product, they get a lot of sales. But I was curious on a few things.
If you think about it, you can still order an iPhone 5. It will take 3-4 weeks to ship. Apple hasn't closed their carts or told their buyers to stop taking orders like what happened with the Galaxy S3.
For the Galaxy S3, we were told it wold be released soon and then got delayed for a few weeks. But if you even tried to order past the first few days, you weren't allowed. All carriers in the US were told it was sold out. But what if Samsung and all the US carriers just kept it open like Apple does and puts "Will ship in 1-2 months."
#1 People would be pissed and probably cancel their order. (I would)
#2 Samsung's opening weekend sales figures would probably be just as inflated.
I hate Apple products and I am definitely an Android fanboy. I can't deny that Apple makes some nice products and they sell very well once released but come on now. I really believe they are tooting their own horn.
Anyone else want to comment on this? Please keep it clean and on topic.
Well, they are separate suppliers. It's probable that Apple's methods of handling delayed orders are just different. We'll find out in less than a month how well iPhone 5 sells (I think Q3 earnings of Oct 22nd.)
You also have to factor in that Apple bought off the 4S for around $150 - 300 depending on how well it was taken care of and amount of wear and tear, so maybe a lot of their sales were buy backs of the old units and should not be counted as part of the overall 5 sales.
Apple and Samsung both factored in the quantity that carriers purchased in bulk prior to release. That is why the numbers are inflated. Units are "technically" sold, off Apple's books, but not delivered to consumers yet.
Please use the thread in the sticky for iPhone discussions
Thanks
FNM