Develop Bugs

f*k the specs...give us a product that actually works

[begin rant]
I am so tired of specs right now because the more you know the more you sink in to the mud-hole. Give me something that I can "touch", "see" & "feel" as better.
Eg.
My current 2 of 3 phones:
1. iphone 3g has 412Mhz processor.
2. Pure has 528Mhz processor
3. iphone 3g has 2 Megapixel camera
4. Pure has 5 Megapixel camera
But does it run faster or take better pictures? NO
For picture quality comparison of the 3g vs pure, See here
Note: my 3rd phone is the iphone 3GS.
So F*k the specs.
[end of rant]

Hei, easy tiger
Why do you rant about Pure vs iPhone here? Take it somewhere else ...j/k.
You are right, at the end, it is not the hardware spec, but "user experience".
That is (user experience) what Microsoft currently is trying to bring with their new product, WP7S.
You know, it is a "new" product. It does not even exist yet (purchaseable).
Still a lot of questions unanswered (which you will have some more clues after MIX10).
So, take it easy
Btw, about "that actually works" ... that's really depend on the user, the person who use the device.
Some users want to have full access to the device, OS, hardware, hack this, hack that, fully-super-duper-multitasking, bunch of sensors.
Some users just want to use the phone as it is ... enough with web browser, play youtube, facebook, twitter and email.
Some users just want to use the phone ... you know, for calling someone else
Like my wife, she is using Touch Dual. Why? Because she hates touch phone! Yupe, she hates iPhone, and all "latest" Windows Mobile devices.
She likes to use the phone for ... calling me and her friends, playing Solitaire (that's all) and occasionally using the TomTom 6 for navigation.
My other friend bought HTC Touch Diamond 2 and she does not have any clue. She "asked" why I have to re-charge the battery every afternoon?
I looked into her phone and I saw bunch of apps running in the background: Contact, Fring, ActiveSync, SMS ...
I told her, you must close those! She again asked "Why? Cant they close them self automatically?"
I said "Sometimes, no" ... and I could not continue. I told her husband to put custom ROM ... bla bla (of course they cant do it!).
For my wife, the HTC Touch Dual "does works", big time.
For my friend, the HTC Touch Diamond 2 "does not work" (They are now thinking to switch to iPhone).
Although HTC Touch Dual is way less spec wise!

Since I had a Touch HD and done lots of comparison shots to the iPhone 3G, I am sure the Pure's camera is actually quite a bit better.
The Pure is certainly not faster, though, and definitely less fluid. The MHz count of the Pure's processor is misleading, as it is really quite slow. Plus, Windows Mobile doesn't have nice animations and fluid physics - it has ugly screen redrawing (though it's actually not slower than iPhone OS, but a lot less fluid).
Anyway,
specs do matter. The problem is, you never get to know all the specs. The MHz and Mpixel numbers simply aren't ebough to say whether a processor is fast or a camera chip is good.
There are lots of other factors involved. But they won't tell you the "performace per clock" numbers or the "light sensitivity" and size of the camera sensor.
So, it's not that specs don't matter, it's just that you don't get to know the numbers that actually do matter. What can you do? Well, I know it's hard, but you actually have to inform yourself as much as you can, so that reading spec sheets will give you the knowledge you need before buying a device.
And you have to try for yourself. And I know it's hard, often you don't get the possibility to try a handset without buying it, and reviews usually don't give enough information, especially if you care about "small features" that usually don't get talked about in reviews.
So, keep cool
Specs can be misleading, but only because regular people don't look behind the raw numbers and have no clue about what really counts. But that doesn't mean phone makers should take away the spec sheets... some users do know what really counts, and spec sheets help them a lot to make their desicion.
Actually, they're helpful more often than not, e.g. I know Snapdragon, Cortex and ARMv7 mean "faaaast". Regular people may not know that, but it won't hurt them to read "Snapdragon" on the spec sheet either. Because in the end, they'll always have to try the phones for themselves (or at least try to get enough info from reviews).
How do you think companies can give you something to "touch", "see" & "feel"? Free try&buy devices? Not going to happen. Spec sheets give at least some hints, since there's no better alternative. And if you do your homework, they will be quite helpful
Calm down... nothing to rant about here

Thanks for the warm note my friend.....
I am a spec guy myself, but I feel as if I was cheated/scammed this time, partly because I am not a mobile device person, and definitely was not aware of this crazy MSM and ARM differences. Now I know....ha ha
Now as far as the camera goes, I know quite a bit as I am in it for a few years now, enough to say that megapixels are just the tip of the iceberg. Higher megapixel within the same sensor family is better, but then there are chips that provide better pictures at the same or less megapixels. i.e. CMOS vs. CCD . On top of that, there is the lens and the processing engine to add on to it.
The camera software in the Pure is not very good. I will tell you that. It takes quite some time for it to find the right white balance under room lighted conditions. The iphone is pretty good/better at that.

The camera software in the Pure is not very good. I will tell you that.
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I know. It's quite bad, actually. That's what I hated about my Touch HD. But nevertheless, my HD took much better pictures than the iPhone 3G (in most cases, at least). I'm sure that's also the case with the Pure.
When it comes to cellphone cameras, however, spec sheets are mostly useless.
They never tell you about anything other than the Mpixel number - which of course means nothing (though I wouldn't want to have less than 5).
The camera is very important to me. Reviews are mostly useless, because they never make direct comparisons under the same conditions. I end up buying several phones, comparing the cameras, and then selling them again... crazy, but that's all I can do
The HD2's camera is actually the first smartphone camera I would be satisfied with - if I could make the flash not overexpose everything that's less than 3m away

seed_al said:
I know. It's quite bad, actually. That's what I hated about my Touch HD. But nevertheless, my HD took much better pictures than the iPhone 3G (in most cases, at least). I'm sure that's also the case with the Pure.
When it comes to cellphone cameras, however, spec sheets are mostly useless.
They never tell you about anything other than the Mpixel number - which of course means nothing (though I wouldn't want to have less than 5).
The camera is very important to me. Reviews are mostly useless, because they never make direct comparisons under the same conditions. I end up buying several phones, comparing the cameras, and then selling them again... crazy, but that's all I can do
The HD2's camera is actually the first smartphone camera I would be satisfied with - if I could make the flash not overexpose everything that's less than 3m away
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Flash overexpose - now if only they would provide TTL flash intensity control. Goodness....
2M vs 5M
My LG-VU actually took much better pictures than the iphone 3G and Pure. The only problem was that you would not realize that until you transferred it to your PC, courtesy of the crappy resistive plasticky screen.
I still have it. Maybe I will use it as a camera only

Cameras... bleh. All smartphone cameras are awful.
But I do have to agree here: Even though one phone may have a snapdragon processor, and the iPhone may have a 412mhz processor, the iPhone navigates so much faster.
Of course, I know the reason for this, but it certainly does make me hope that Microsoft sorts this out with WP7S.
(Though, never, EVER, would I buy anything that supports Apple...)
EDIT: Also, I've had lots of people say that my Touch Pro's screen was "less sensitive/accurate than iPod/iPhone's". Even though I've tried to explain it, the average user just doesn't get it.

Even though one phone may have a snapdragon processor, and the iPhone may have a 412mhz processor, the iPhone navigates so much faster.
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No way
It's not going to beat a Snapdragon phone.
The iPhone 3G isn't that fast, actually. It's barely faster than the QCOM MSM phones, but of course much more smooth/fluid (and that despite it has 100MHz less).
Smartphone cameras? Yes, they're not good. But I'm not going to buy a dumbphone because of the camera.

Jaxbot said:
Even though one phone may have a snapdragon processor, and the iPhone may have a 412mhz processor, the iPhone navigates so much faster.
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You won't say that once you gets your hands on a HD2 (with or without custom rom I might add). It's probably the 1st (and last) HTC WinMo 6.5 phone with enough grunt to power thru practically anything. The only reason why an iPhone might feel faster is because it presents you with a flashy animation before actually loading up the app. WM phones don't do this.
Jaxbot said:
EDIT: Also, I've had lots of people say that my Touch Pro's screen was "less sensitive/accurate than iPod/iPhone's"
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Used to have a Touch HD and preferred resistive touchscreens. Several months with a HD2 changed my mind I do think resistive touchscreens are actually more accurate though, I can touch-type way faster on my HD than I can on the HD2. But that could just be a Wm 6.5 limitation.

Ok. here's the deal. CCD sensors are more noisy and most HTC camera probably use CCD sensor given the noise in low light pictures.
after researching a bit, I found out that the iphone uses CMOS sensors which actually produce a smoother, less noisy picture. No wonder.....my eyes can see the difference.
fyi...Canon uses CMOS sensors across it's line of decent to high end digital cameras, a big reason why it leads the market.
update: i also just found out that the HD2 uses a CMOS sensor too. no wonder u hd2 owners love the picture quality of the hd2.

seed_al said:
No way
It's not going to beat a Snapdragon phone.
The iPhone 3G isn't that fast, actually. It's barely faster than the QCOM MSM phones, but of course much more smooth/fluid (and that despite it has 100MHz less).
Smartphone cameras? Yes, they're not good. But I'm not going to buy a dumbphone because of the camera.
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I'm not referring to the speed, I'm referring to the navigatability (and how "fluid" it is).
Of course, I always laugh when I see the animations on someone's iPhone, because it really does make it seem like the app loads faster than it does (Hint to Microsoft?).

chiks19018 said:
Ok. here's the deal. CCD sensors are more noisy and most HTC camera probably use CCD sensor given the noise in low light pictures.
after researching a bit, I found out that the iphone uses CMOS sensors which actually produce a smoother, less noisy picture. No wonder.....my eyes can see the difference.
fyi...Canon uses CMOS sensors across it's line of decent to high end digital cameras, a big reason why it leads the market.
update: i also just found out that the HD2 uses a CMOS sensor too. no wonder u hd2 owners love the picture quality of the hd2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then check again.
CCD was always superior to CMOS and probably will be for a long time(that is why they use it in science).
Almost all mobile phones(there are only few that use CCD - mostly in japan) today use CMOS sensors because they're cheaper.
Basically mobile phones are mostly using 1/3.2" sensors if not smaller and at that size CCD would offer better picture quality and low light sensitivity but would be bigger so the phone would be bigger that is why ODM's are using CMOS sensors.
More expensive CMOS sensors are used in DSLR's but show me just one P&S camera that uses CMOS.
So both HTC(all HTC's) and iphone use CMOS sensors but probably from different manufacturers hence the difference in quality and noise level.
So once and for all. For mobile use CCD would be better but it is bigger and not as cheap as CMOS sensor. In high end DSLR market it is not so clear that is why both CCD and CMOS sensors are used.

I am back to fk the specs....
It appears that at this time, there is no clear defining line between CCD and CMOS. both are very competitive, both offering it's own advantages, strengths and weaknesses.
CMOS is the future
Canon making CMOS for compact cameras
Turns out that Canon surprised everyone with its amazing CMOS
technology. Imagine that surprise that its CMOS sensor has a much
better noise performance than any known CCDs. Even Phil Askey said
the image was "silky smooth" - some wondered, "it looks too smooth,
some details must have been removed" but a closer examination found
no evidence.
Link
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chiks19018 said:
I am back to fk the specs....
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haha

chiks19018 said:
I am back to fk the specs....
It appears that at this time, there is no clear defining line between CCD and CMOS. both are very competitive, both offering it's own advantages, strengths and weaknesses.
CMOS is the future
Canon making CMOS for compact cameras
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I never said CMOS was worse for DSLR. On the contrary I admitted that today both CMOS and CCD fair well in DSLR's. Considering the size of the sensor low light sensitivity seems to be equal between the two.
What I meant is that for small sizes CCD is best(almost all point&shoot cameras) and mobile phones where unfortunately manufacturers decide to use cheaper CMOS sensors - remember that there are better CMOS used in high end cameras and cheap ones used in mobile phones and PC cameras. Unfortunately we get cheap sensors in our mobile phones.

I think he reason why they are making the spec's high is because they want everything to touch and feel better. So why f*** the specs? I'm pretty sure that's going to be important. You put a 538mhz proc in a WP7 it's probably not going to want to move.

Wishmaster89 said:
I never said CMOS was worse for DSLR. On the contrary I admitted that today both CMOS and CCD fair well in DSLR's. Considering the size of the sensor low light sensitivity seems to be equal between the two.
What I meant is that for small sizes CCD is best(almost all point&shoot cameras) and mobile phones where unfortunately manufacturers decide to use cheaper CMOS sensors - remember that there are better CMOS used in high end cameras and cheap ones used in mobile phones and PC cameras. Unfortunately we get cheap sensors in our mobile phones.
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chill man, I am not arguing with you, nor I am putting you down. In fact I liked your post. made me do some more research!

The specs that the phone companies provide are like a girl saying she wears DD bra size.
When you take it off you realize that it was padded on a B size

OMG I just solved the flash exposure issue with a new driver from HTC!!
Wow that feels good! What a great camera phone I have now!!
Sorry, guys, for being OT, but I'm so happy^^

*LOL* ..... Thanks for that! I got a good laugh
chiks19018 said:
The specs that the phone companies provide are like a girl saying she wears DD bra size.
When you take it off you realize that it was padded on a B size
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WP7 Phone with the Best Camera

Anyone have some input on the best WP7 phone to get if I want to use it to replace my Kodak digital camera? The camera on the HD7 kind of sucks.

Don't go with the LG Quantum either. In bright daylight it's sort of ok, but as soon as you need flash, it's like taking a picture on a RAZR from 2007. Awful.
-edit-
I think the HTC Mozart is the only wp with an 8mp camera. Probably the best?

I would say pretty much all of them are the same; the only phone that has more mp is the HTC Mozart (8mp). Idk if that might make a difference though as mp doesn't necessarily define the whole aspect of good pictures. I hear the focus is nice for taking pictures (in terms of clarity and color balance) as well. It also has the SAMOLED screen, which means the pictures show up more vibrant on your phone
I'm interested in hearing what other people say

Don't know about the Focus, but the Samsung Omnia 7 is definitely the best one available in Europe. I would rank them Samsung, LG, HTC - with the Mozart's 8MP not really being any better than the other HTC phones.

I've been extremely satisfied with the photo quality on my Focus.

its worth pointing out that higher MP does not equal better quality.
Most 5MP cameras will be fine in teh correct lighting conditions, low light is the biggest issue, the reason for this is down to optics and CCD size.
If you had a 12MP camera with a lense the size of the HD2/7 the pictures will be crap in low light as well, to be perfectly honest unless you get a phone with a big arse lense and 5+MP you wont get good "poor" light photos
I find the HD2/7 camera is grand in good lighting, had some cracking shots, mess with the lighting a bit and i pull out my slim line 12MP camera with its 32mm lense

yeah, don't replace your camera.
Just buy a second hand canon Ixus series (60 - 95) for less than £70 on ebay and you won't ever be disappointed! They are ultracompact but the picture quality has always been so good!
I don't really understand people who try to replace their camera with their mobile phone.. the mobile phone will take mediocre shots but i guess you have it with you all the time.
BUt even a cheapo crappy dedicated camera with LOWER MP will shoot better pictures than a 5MP-10MP phone.
Get one of the ultracompacts whcih are actually smaller than a lot of the new smartphones anyway!
I don't think I've used my Omnia 7 camera except for when taking lecture notes on Onenote!
Otherwise I stick to using my Canon 550D and Ixus 95

hboos said:
I don't really understand people who try to replace their camera with their mobile phone.. the mobile phone will take mediocre shots but at least you have it with you all the time.
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You just answered yourself - it's because you've always got your phone with you. The less gadgets you have to carry the better.
I tend to use my Omnia7 for photos several times a day. Quick snaps of just about anything. The fact they're snaps doesn't mean I'll be happy with ****ty quality though, you never know, you might get lucky enough to catch that one moment and decide you want it printed.
Now, if I'm out specifically for taking photos I'll obviously use my Nikon DSLR, but for everyday use I want a phone that gives at least half decent results.
The fact is that all WP7 cameras could be better. Especially the HTC ones.

emigrating said:
You just answered yourself - it's because you've always got your phone with you. The less gadgets you have to carry the better.
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Yeah agreed it is slightly more convenient..
But I personally don't like swapping quality for slight convenience
I still use my Cowon for music (better sound quality than phone) and carry my ultra compact when out with friends and my DSLR when I want to take decent photos!
I also find that the lens of the phone camera is always grubby resulting in slightly soft photos!
BUt coming back to the topic..I think the OMnia 7 takes fairly decent photos compared to other phones although I don't know how it compares to other WP7
Engadget reckons the Focus has an "impressive camera" and the Omnia 7 has a "good camera" while the others either aren't mentioned in the scorecard or specifically mention "subpar camera"
They've actually posted all the photos so you should have a look yourself.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/29/htc-trophy-review/
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/22/samsung-focus-review/
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/22/lg-optimus-7-review/
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/21/htc-7-mozart-review/
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/20/htc-hd7-review/
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/20/samsung-omnia-7-review/
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/20/htc-surround-review/

I'm having real problems with the focus camera. I can't seem to get a steady shot. Maybe it's because of the hardware button, and I'm slightly moving the camera when I take it. I hope that's it, because it usually takes me 5 or 6 shots to get a decent one...

jmerrey said:
I'm having real problems with the focus camera. I can't seem to get a steady shot. Maybe it's because of the hardware button, and I'm slightly moving the camera when I take it. I hope that's it, because it usually takes me 5 or 6 shots to get a decent one...
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Have you tried holding the camera button down half-way to let it focus before taking the pic? Also, there is an anti-shake setting on Focuses (and other Samsungs, I presume), but unfortunately the setting doesn't save.

yes i use the auto-focus feature, i've tried the anti-shake setting, i've tried lowering the resolution, pretty much everything...i can get a decent shot about 1 out of 5

[Q] Camera quality due to hardware or software or both?

Hello all,
Do you think the issues with the Galaxy Nexus camera are due to software issues or is the camera sensor just really that bad? It seems that the low light capability of this camera is even worse than that of the Nexus S. I've never had any issues with my camera phones in the past producing such crap photos as the one this phone produces(HTC Sensation, Nexus S and original Nexus). I'm thinking about just going back to my Nexus S and selling this one.
I've attached two photos that someone posted on Google+ illustrating how bad the Galaxy Nexus compares to the Asus Transformer Prime's camera. This is really frustrating and if I were Google and/or Samsung, I'd be embarrassed.

Not the same angle, not the same focus point which impacts the validity of this comparison.
Also note that there is a little bit more detail in the more grainy shot. This is something that actually could be improved with a software update.

Valynor said:
Not the same angle, not the same focus point which impacts the validity of this comparison.
Also note that there is a little bit more detail in the more grainy shot. This is something that actually could be improved with a software update.
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Hmm...each picture look pretty close to the same angle. I'm more concerned with the graininess of the Galaxy Nexus photo. It seems that the camera's ISO is too high which is why it's producing a grainy picture.

oracleicom said:
Hmm...each picture look pretty close to the same angle. I'm more concerned with the graininess of the Galaxy Nexus photo. It seems that the camera's ISO is too high which is why it's producing a grainy picture.
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It mainly comes down to a balance of exposure time, ISO, picture quality level of the sensor at that ISO and noise reduction algorithms/general software post-processing of the image.
I agree that there is quite some room for improvement in this area on the GN camera. I hope Google/Samsung will address this in an update someday.
Apart from this, any phone camera sucks at low light.

I find the camera really good. The only thing I find kind of strange is how photo's look in a dim room with flash on close up.
Videos look godly

Coming from the SG2 the Nexus certainly is a step backwards. What has impressed me about the Nexus camera is the ability to focus and stay focused, and snap shots almost instantly. The SG2 has issues with focus and delays. In movie mode the SG2 would come in and out of focus even when I have not moved the phone at all. Taking photos of moving objects on the SG2 is a real challenge because of its inability to focus, but having said that the photos that are taken properly do come out very sharp and vibrant, especially given enough daylight.
So where the Nexus improved vastly on focus speed, it fails in image quality. Even in moderate light I see more than usual noise from photos taken with the Nexus.
I look forward to the SGIII.

I just remind myself that I'm taking pictures with a phone. So I don't care. I also have not had issues with photos. Especially when I remind myself, again, that I am using a phone to take pictures with.

mzrdisi said:
I just remind myself that I'm taking pictures with a phone. So I don't care. I also have not had issues with photos. Especially when I remind myself, again, that I am using a phone to take pictures with.
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Yeah dude, I agree. If I want yo take sick photo's, I'd use a camera anyway, even if the phone is the best "camera" phone on the market. Its for quick shots. I agree aswell that the Gnex could be better... But I've seen/used worse. = )

mzrdisi said:
I just remind myself that I'm taking pictures with a phone. So I don't care. I also have not had issues with photos. Especially when I remind myself, again, that I am using a phone to take pictures with.
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Amen!
That's why I lug a DSLR around with me when I go away for work.
REAL camera = photography, cell phone = phone with a point & shoot camera built into it.

For indoor pics just set your phone to Party preset. Works best.
You can get similar / better results by manually choosing the white balance and exposure settings depending on your light conditions. But for quick snaps, just select party mode and see the difference.
Camera is more than decent.
Personally I am using Camera Zoom FX for most of the time. But in certain low light conditions, stock camera app with party preset actually does much better job.

This is one of the worst camera I seen in years.

This is what really holds me back from buying a GN these days...I would be interested in your guys thoughts: Do you think that there will be some software based improvements within the next weeks? Or is it just the lense (or some hardware stuff like that, not my terrain here^^), which can´t be improved?

brooon said:
This is what really holds me back from buying a GN these days...I would be interested in your guys thoughts: Do you think that there will be some software based improvements within the next weeks? Or is it just the lense (or some hardware stuff like that, not my terrain here^^), which can´t be improved?
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Hardware is always limiting. No amount of software can make something better than it physically can be. I'm not saying that updates cant fix the issues we're seeing, I actually believe the contrary. There is a lot you can do with software to really tweak things. But you can't compare a phone camera to a DSLR or something like it.
I personally believe google will update the camera but the question is when. Personally I think the camera is great. I think it depends on what you're used to taking pictures with, and how ocd/picky you are about quality. The SGS2 has better camera hardware, but do try to remember the issues it had when it first came out. The camera quality issues of it were patched up really nice with a software update so don't give your hopes up.

EddieN said:
Hardware is always limiting. No amount of software can make something better than it physically can be. I'm not saying that updates cant fix the issues we're seeing, I actually believe the contrary. There is a lot you can do with software to really tweak things. But you can't compare a phone camera to a DSLR or something like it.
I personally believe google will update the camera but the question is when. Personally I think the camera is great. I think it depends on what you're used to taking pictures with, and how ocd/picky you are about quality. The SGS2 has better camera hardware, but do try to remember the issues it had when it first came out. The camera quality issues of it were patched up really nice with a software update so don't give your hopes up.
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Thanks for your input! Yeah I´m coming from an SGSII, atm I´m on a Galaxy Note...so both of my current devices do have better hardware...in the past there was the HD2, which had some terrible software bugs, that have been worked out within months. The last roms I used with the HD2 really pushed the photoquality...

I came from the sgs2 and they are almost identical, I do find the nexus a bit sharper. Great macro
Sent from my francoPhone using xda premium

I started using Shot Control over the stock camera app. It seems to do a better job of with the settings and does give a higher degree of fine tuning them. Give up the panorama mode though, which I love!

People want the highest quality, buy a freaking camera. Or get over it already, stop making this kind of threads.

i am completely dissatisfied with the camera on this phone. I came from a Nexus One to the Gnex. The Nexus one has an AMAAAZING camera on it. Of course HTC uses better hardware. Ill post comparison pics later... damn samsung!

how can i reduce the noise (or grain... i dont know the exact english term) in the pic??
the pics on first posts explain very good the problem.
thx a lot.

daffyno said:
how can i reduce the noise (or grain... i dont know the exact english term) in the pic??
the pics on first posts explain very good the problem.
thx a lot.
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In short...you can't. The hardware in a device this small can't do much more than that.

Camera Issue Querry

Hi,
I will purchase M8 or S5 tomorrow.
I want to know about the camera's common issues:
1. Pink Tint issue (M7 was plagued with that after few months of usage)
2. Camera Glass/Lens getting scratches
Please do share your experience and if these issues have been fixed in recently manufactured batches or not?
If you would are aware of other camera or non camera related issues please do share it as I will buy a new phone tomorrow.
Thanks in Advance

in_core said:
Hi,
I will purchase M8 or S5 tomorrow.
I want to know about the camera's common issues:
1. Pink Tint issue (M7 was plagued with that after few months of usage)
2. Camera Glass/Lens getting scratches
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1: I'd say its subjective. I say there is no issue, others say there is (but probably not as bad as the M7). You can read some more here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2783070
2. Still seems to be an issue. But not sure if anything has been done about it on latest batches. The fix is easy, just polish off the useless lens coating (and its just that, a cheap coating, its not the glass that is scratching).
In contrast to the S5, the M8 has a much better build quality and better speakers. You can't fix the cheap plastic exterior of the S5.

redpoint73 said:
1: I'd say its subjective. I say there is no issue, others say there is (but probably not as bad as the M7). You can read some more here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2783070
2. Still seems to be an issue. But not sure if anything has been done about it on latest batches. The fix is easy, just polish off the useless lens coating (and its just that, a cheap coating, its not the glass that is scratching).
In contrast to the S5, the M8 has a much better build quality and better speakers. You can't fix the cheap plastic exterior of the S5.
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I need to confirm if that only happens when the auto settings turn up the ISO in dark scenes.
On your second comment
I really like the M8, apart from the controversial camera. And now that I am sort of trying to overlook the camera, i find out there are issue with it apart from being a extremely low res one.
But overall I find S5 to be balanced phone.
Anyways thank for your input.

in_core said:
I need to confirm if that only happens when the auto settings turn up the ISO in dark scenes.
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That's what the thread I linked is saying, yes. Personally, I use my M8 for snapshots indoors pretty often, and many times in low light (although maybe not extreme low light) and do not consider the pics to be overly tinted pink/red/etc. I just looked at my Gallery, and of the past couple hundred or so, I can see maybe 3 photos that have a slightly pink hue to them. And its not something that I would have noticed, if you hadn't mentioned it. But of course, different things bother different people.
in_core said:
I really like the M8, apart from the controversial camera. And now that I am sort of trying to overlook the camera, i find out there are issue with it apart from being a extremely low res one.
But overall I find S5 to be balanced phone.
Anyways thank for your input.
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The lower res is only an issue if you are blowing up photos or cropping them. In bright daylight, maybe some detail is a bit lost compared to higher MP cameras. But its not a big difference (at least not a deal breaker IMO), and the M8's performance in low light is superior due to the larger pixels. Check out the following webpage which compares the cameras on the current flagships of the time; in particular the "Lab Scene" in low light. Not only does the M8 take a much better photo (S5 pic is almost unusable), but its actually less pink than the S5 (and others, for that matter).
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7903/samsung-galaxy-s-5-review/2
Have you actually held the phones in hand? I was debating the 2 phone myself back in the Spring. They looked very comparable on paper. But once I actually compared the two in person, it was no contest. The S5 just felt so cheap and the M8 felt much more high end in appearance and feel. And the laggy TouchWiz on the S5 does it no favors compared to the snappy M8.
in_core said:
Anyways thank for your input.
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There is a button for that!

I purchased both the m8 and the s5 back in April. Interface and performance hands down m8. I gave up on touchwiz after putting up with it in the s2,3&4. Features wise, s5 has more to offer but if you prefer the premium build and seamless interface, you can manage without a 16mp camera and a fingerprint scanner. Camera is fine for viewing on laptops, the phone etc. Its good enough though the s5 camera and m8 camera are in no matchup. And since most will change their smartphone every year or 2, its safe to pick one and try it out.. Not a LT investment.
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using XDA Free mobile app

redpoint73 said:
That's what the thread I linked is saying, yes. Personally, I use my M8 for snapshots indoors pretty often, and many times in low light (although maybe not extreme low light) and do not consider the pics to be overly tinted pink/red/etc. I just looked at my Gallery, and of the past couple hundred or so, I can see maybe 3 photos that have a slightly pink hue to them. And its not something that I would have noticed, if you hadn't mentioned it. But of course, different things bother different people.
The lower res is only an issue if you are blowing up photos or cropping them. In bright daylight, maybe some detail is a bit lost compared to higher MP cameras. But its not a big difference (at least not a deal breaker IMO), and the M8's performance in low light is superior due to the larger pixels. Check out the following webpage which compares the cameras on the current flagships of the time; in particular the "Lab Scene" in low light. Not only does the M8 take a much better photo (S5 pic is almost unusable), but its actually less pink than the S5 (and others, for that matter).
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7903/samsung-galaxy-s-5-review/2
Have you actually held the phones in hand? I was debating the 2 phone myself back in the Spring. They looked very comparable on paper. But once I actually compared the two in person, it was no contest. The S5 just felt so cheap and the M8 felt much more high end in appearance and feel. And the laggy TouchWiz on the S5 does it no favors compared to the snappy M8.
There is a button for that!
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I do need some more feedback on that Pink Camera thingy before i am sure about it.
And what was that coating meant for actually? To protect against scratch or something?

Anti reflective coating..and pink camera issue from the m7 seems to be gone..I've had 3 different m8's(indented power button and speaker grill lift issues)
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using XDA Free mobile app

sameer1807 said:
Anti reflective coating..and pink camera issue from the m7 seems to be gone..I've had 3 different m8's(indented power button and speaker grill lift issues)
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using XDA Free mobile app
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I could buy HTC M8 without any issue. But the thing is I wont get any warranty in my country

There's far more to a phone than the cheap situational cameras they have. I suggest researching other aspects of the phones and going with what is more appealing to you.
Basing decisions on the sub par cameras all phones have seems trivial.
Get the phone that suits your phone needs.
A 100 dollar camera will blow away every phone camera out there with ease. ?

Anyone disappointed with the Pixel XL camera?

TL;DR: Unhappy with noisy photos/videos from camera. Not sure if I'm being unreasonable, or if this device has hardware/software issues. Your thoughts?
I'm curious as to what other people's thoughts are on the Pixel camera? The pictures and videos on this phone do not seem up to par with what Google represented, or else I possibly received bad hardware. Here's my experience so far...
I ordered the device from the Google Store and received it early December. First thing I did was update the firmware and updated the apps, which included the Google Camera app. Every photo I took, in varying degrees of lighting, seemed to have a great deal of noise or pixelation. Even 4K video in daylight looked like I ran it through a noise filter in editing software. I contacted Google Support and they ran through a series of tests while the engineer was remote viewing my screen. We deleted the Google Camera app's cache/data, put the device in safe mode, and performed a factory reset. After each step the photos looked no better than before. The engineer then stated my hardware was defective and issued an RMA for the device. Now that I'm on my second Pixel XL, I can't say the camera is any better and I'm still disappointed with the results, but I'm reluctant to contact Google again because I feel like it's more than likely a software/firmware issue at this point.
How could both devices (brand new, second was not a refurbished device) have the same hardware defect and this not be a widely reported issue? I've read articles about the "Halo" issue and people having pink lines on the camera viewer, but Google claimed it was software related and I believe they already released a fix. I've also flashed ROMs before on old devices that didn't have proper drivers, which resulted in similar experiences similar to my current problem when I knew for a fact the hardware was just fine.
Anyway, sorry for the meandering post, but I'd love for anyone to share their thoughts about the camera. Does it live up to your expectations and take photos worthy of the highest rated smartphone camera of all time?

In well lit environment, high megapixel cameras win for me due to detail. But for low light, this camera is awesome
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Pictures sometimes turn out fantastic, and sometimes average.
The camera seems to not know what to focus in on which leads to weird looking images. Also, for some reason, my pictures all have a somewhat yellow tint.
Maybe my expectations for "the highest rated smartphone camera...ever" was set a bit too high.

Mr Hoff I would have to say no, as the camera works awesome I would say its the best smartphone camera on the market, and that is even without ois to boot.

As much as I don't wanna admit it but iPhone 7 camera is definitely a better all around camera. There's no debating it. Yes the pixel can beat it out in perfect circumstances taking still photos.. but the iPhone exceeds in more areas.
The pixel is horrible at capturing the slightest movement without blurring the picture. I heard this is because the camera uses a slow shutter speed compared to other devices.
Same thing goes for videos. Taking a video of someone standing there talking.. the pixel will likely win..But try to follow a moving person or object and that's where you notice the lack of OIS and the pixel looses by far.
I take riding pictures (BMX) with a normal DSLR but always have my cell phone to take some pics to.. the pixel doesn't do much better than my s5 did

aholeinthewor1d said:
As much as I don't wanna admit it but iPhone 7 camera is definitely a better all around camera. There's no debating it. Yes the pixel can beat it out in perfect circumstances taking still photos.. but the iPhone exceeds in more areas.
The pixel is horrible at capturing the slightest movement without blurring the picture. I heard this is because the camera uses a slow shutter speed compared to other devices.
Same thing goes for videos. Taking a video of someone standing there talking.. the pixel will likely win..But try to follow a moving person or object and that's where you notice the lack of OIS and the pixel looses by far.
I take riding pictures (BMX) with a normal DSLR but always have my cell phone to take some pics to.. the pixel doesn't do much better than my s5 did
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Yep. This is my biggest issue as well. I have a newborn and half my pictures are blurry due to him moving his arms when I'm taking pics.

Here's what I'm referring to. Granted this is low light, but when the camera does hit the light you can really see the noise I'm referring to. This can't be normal.
4K Video taken tonight: https://goo.gl/photos/MCTbfb96Cpw74bkFA

If you're having issues with motion blur (will be more prominent in middle and low light) disable HDR for those shots. It keeps the "shutter" capturing longer. Your image quality will take a hit but the motion blur should be reduced.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

I'm disappointed but I'm so used to my rx100 so it's not fair at all
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biggiestuff said:
I'm disappointed but I'm so used to my rx100 so it's not fair at all
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I have an rx100m3 as well, which is partly why I'm wondering if I'm being unreasonable. Guess I'll have to keep carrying that with me when I want higher picture quality.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

chrisstl said:
I have an rx100m3 as well, which is partly why I'm wondering if I'm being unreasonable. Guess I'll have to keep carrying that with me when I want higher picture quality.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
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I'm pretty sure that plays a huge part in it. There isn't a smart phone camera that can compare. Once you've become accustomed to the quality of the Sony, it's hard to downgrade. I take it with me to anything that is going to involve low light.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

The low light is absolute garbage, worse than the Note 4 I had before it.

I loved my note 7, the panoramas were amazing on that phone. Thought camera was great on pixel but after more use I have some quirks I dislike. If I want to take quality photos or video I bring my Nikon D3300.

Are you guys trying to compare a DSLR vs. a smartphone camera in low light?
Ok, consider this. Low light shots require a lot of light collection. How much bigger is a DSLR lens vs. a smartphone lens.
I'm looking at the Pixel XL lens, and it's about 2.5mm in diameter. That's about 5 mm squared of area.
A DSLR lens would be about 2 inches wide, that's 50.8mm in diameter or about 2000 mm squared of area.
The difference in light captured in low light, with the same exposure, is a factor of 400!
It is a miracle that enough light is even captured by a tiny smartphone camera lens for low light shots. If I were completely unaware of the actual quality of pictures but was only given the specs of both cameras, I would say that they couldn't even be compared!

nabbed said:
Are you guys trying to compare a DSLR vs. a smartphone camera in low light?
Ok, consider this. Low light shots require a lot of light collection. How much bigger is a DSLR lens vs. a smartphone lens.
I'm looking at the Pixel XL lens, and it's about 2.5mm in diameter. That's about 5 mm squared of area.
A DSLR lens would be about 2 inches wide, that's 50.8mm in diameter or about 2000 mm squared of area.
The difference in light captured in low light, with the same exposure, is a factor of 400!
It is a miracle that enough light is even captured by a tiny smartphone camera lens for low light shots. If I were completely unaware of the actual quality of pictures but was only given the specs of both cameras, I would say that they couldn't even be compared!
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I'm certainly not comparing a DSLR vs a smartphone. And also an rx100 isn't a DSLR either. My disappointment, which I didn't really mention, was mentally comparing my iPhone 6+ and the Pixel XL. I think I'm having issue with the HDR overcompensating and causing noise.
Edit: To clarify my rx100m3 comment, I just wished that a smartphone camera quality could improve to the point where I would be comfortable leaving the rx100m3 at home sometimes. I thought the Pixel would bring me closer to that dream, but it hasn't.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

chrisstl said:
I'm certainly not comparing a DSLR vs a smartphone. And also an rx100 isn't a DSLR either. My disappointment, which I didn't really mention, was mentally comparing my iPhone 6+ and the Pixel XL. I think I'm having issue with the HDR overcompensating and causing noise.
Edit: To clarify my rx100m3 comment, I just wished that a smartphone camera quality could improve to the point where I would be comfortable leaving the rx100m3 at home sometimes. I thought the Pixel would bring me closer to that dream, but it hasn't.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
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I think this is not a general consensus, but this is what I got out of reviews of modern flagship phone cameras.
iPhone 7, Galaxy S7, Pixel cameras have similar capabilities in terms of hardware. What makes a difference is the software processing and noise reduction.
Galaxy S7 seems to have the best algorithms for noise reduction, and the fastest autofocus in very dark scenery. That means less noise, and sharper photos in the dark for the Galaxy. Pixel has an excellent HDR, with good color reproduction in HDR screnery, where dark and bright objects are present simultaneously. iPhone has a good all around camera not excelling at any particular feature.
That said, all smartphone cameras are not even close to large dedicated cameras - the sizes of lenses and sensors are literally two orders of magnitude better in low light. At the current level of technology, you cannot replace a large camera with a smartphone in low light.

Honestly, there's really not much of an upgrade from the 6P to the Pixel camera.

I've actually been pretty impressed. Coming from the S7 Edge the Pixel does not offer huge improvements in any single area, but subtle improvements across the board. When it comes to the camera, I spent weeks and hundreds of shots in different settings trying to decide which camera was better as I was weighing the decision of which device to keep. Ultimately, I found them both to be great but the Pixel seemed to do a little better when taking shots of my kids who are 1, 3 and 5 and are thus always moving and very active. I'm quite surprised with some of the comments in this thread because I've been quite pleased. When comparing photos to those of my wife's iPhone 6s+, the gap becomes a little larger and the Pixel is significantly better in most every situation, especially with moving targets. I cannot comment on comparisons to the iP7 because I don't have one and would only base my opinion on the many reviews I've read and watched over the last month or so. The one aspect of my S7 Edge camera I really miss is the wide angle FFC and probably the S7 Edge low light performance overall.
In all honesty, I do have mild regrets about keeping the Pixel and selling the S7Edge. Overall I think the S7 is a slightly better device with its design, waterproofing, form factor, and features. But the Pixel is solid enough to get me through to Pixel XL 2 or Galaxy S9.

chrisstl said:
I'm certainly not comparing a DSLR vs a smartphone. And also an rx100 isn't a DSLR either. My disappointment, which I didn't really mention, was mentally comparing my iPhone 6+ and the Pixel XL. I think I'm having issue with the HDR overcompensating and causing noise.
Edit: To clarify my rx100m3 comment, I just wished that a smartphone camera quality could improve to the point where I would be comfortable leaving the rx100m3 at home sometimes. I thought the Pixel would bring me closer to that dream, but it hasn't.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
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The RX100 is darn good and can give some of the lower DSLR/mirrorless camera competition. The video you posted is the incredibly hard for a sensor this size and we know the pixel is not great at low light. RX100 is also a excellent F/1.8 lense on it.
I think you are just expecting too much out of a sensor much smaller than the RX100s. Assuming the IMX 378 has the same aspect ratio to the RX100 it is 4.1 time smaller in area.
IMX378 - 7.81mm diagonal (28mm^2 assuming same W/H ratio as RX100)
RX100 III - 8.8mm x 13.2mm, 15.86mm diagonal, 116.16mm^2
If you are comfortable shooting manual and RAW try it on the pixel (manual camera is simple and effective). It will at least show you the limits of the sensor and should help you understand when and why it will fall on it face in certain lighting conditions. It will also so you why HDR+ is so amazing.
nabbed said:
I think this is not a general consensus, but this is what I got out of reviews of modern flagship phone cameras.
iPhone 7, Galaxy S7, Pixel cameras have similar capabilities in terms of hardware. What makes a difference is the software processing and noise reduction.
Galaxy S7 seems to have the best algorithms for noise reduction, and the fastest autofocus in very dark scenery. That means less noise, and sharper photos in the dark for the Galaxy. Pixel has an excellent HDR, with good color reproduction in HDR screnery, where dark and bright objects are present simultaneously. iPhone has a good all around camera not excelling at any particular feature.
That said, all smartphone cameras are not even close to large dedicated cameras - the sizes of lenses and sensors are literally two orders of magnitude better in low light. At the current level of technology, you cannot replace a large camera with a smartphone in low light.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would not agree that the S7 has better image processing. It is by far the worst by overdoing the noise reduction and overcompensating with too much sharpening. It is a better sensor/lense underneath though.

rancor22 said:
The RX100 is darn good and can give some of the lower DSLR/mirrorless camera competition. The video you posted is the incredibly hard for a sensor this size and we know the pixel is not great at low light. RX100 is also a excellent F/1.8 lense on it.
I think you are just expecting too much out of a sensor much smaller than the RX100s. Assuming the IMX 378 has the same aspect ratio to the RX100 it is 4.1 time smaller in area.
IMX378 - 7.81mm diagonal (28mm^2 assuming same W/H ratio as RX100)
RX100 III - 8.8mm x 13.2mm, 15.86mm diagonal, 116.16mm^2
If you are comfortable shooting manual and RAW try it on the pixel (manual camera is simple and effective). It will at least show you the limits of the sensor and should help you understand when and why it will fall on it face in certain lighting conditions. It will also so you why HDR+ is so amazing.
I would not agree that the S7 has better image processing. It is by far the worst by overdoing the noise reduction and overcompensating with too much sharpening. It is a better sensor/lense underneath though.
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I am sorry, but do you own any of the phones/cameras in question? Do you speak from experience or from rumor mill?