Develop Bugs

[SGH-T989] Qualcomm based SGS2 "Celox" aka "Hercules"

So this is interesting. There was a lot of confusion about T-Mobile U.S.' new phone the Hercules and whether or not it was an SGS2 variant. Well it is and it isn't. This link talks about a SGS2 version launching in Korea and Germany that uses the same Qualcomm SoC as the Sensation. That's an interesting choice because the Sensation does poorly on benchmarks. Other than being LTE equipped it's the same specs and looks the same at the T-Mobile U.S. Hercules. So apparently Samsung's being pretty liberal with what they define as a SGS2.
http://sammyhub.com/2011/08/09/is-this-samsung-galaxy-s-ii-lte-phone-codenamed-celox/
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I'm not sure I would be interested in this. It's a larger screen (4.5" is too big) and it will probably get worse battery life with LTE. I think I'll wait for the Galaxy S III.

smartbot said:
I'm not sure I would be interested in this. It's a larger screen (4.5" is too big) and it will probably get worse battery life with LTE. I think I'll wait for the Galaxy S III.
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The 8060 SoC sort of sucks in the Sensation. That would kill it for me before the 4.5" screen. It's actually using the same chip that's in the HP TouchPad. Interesting choice on Samsung's part. The radio is market specific so LTE won't be everywhere.

It looks like Samsung is trying to cash in on galaxy s name and push as many phones as they can.
Probably short term business decision regardless of consequences to its name.

BarryH_GEG said:
So this is interesting. There was a lot of confusion about T-Mobile U.S.' new phone the Hercules and whether or not it was an SGS2 variant. Well it is and it isn't. This link talks about a SGS2 version launching in Korea and Germany that uses the same Qualcomm SoC as the Sensation. That's an interesting choice because the Sensation does poorly on benchmarks. Other than being LTE equipped it's the same specs and looks the same at the T-Mobile U.S. Hercules. So apparently Samsung's being pretty liberal with what they define as a SGS2.
http://sammyhub.com/2011/08/09/is-this-samsung-galaxy-s-ii-lte-phone-codenamed-celox/
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Click to collapse
Actually the Sensation chip sin't nearly as crappy as it was prior to getting s-off. Once developers were able to make kernel mods and other tweaks the chip performs much better than it did out of the box. I think some of the poor benchmark scores can be attributed to the qHD screen of the Sensation. However, I ran cf-bench last night with both my sgs2 and sensation clocked at 1.5ghz and the Sensation beat it each time. The gpu of the adreno 220 is surprisingly good. I would be interested to see the qualcomm chip properly implemented such that the hardware and software were coded in sync

jlevy73 said:
Actually the Sensation chip sin't nearly as crappy as it was prior to getting s-off. Once developers were able to make kernel mods and other tweaks the chip performs much better than it did out of the box. I think some of the poor benchmark scores can be attributed to the qHD screen of the Sensation. However, I ran cf-bench last night with both my sgs2 and sensation clocked at 1.5ghz and the Sensation beat it each time. The gpu of the adreno 220 is surprisingly good. I would be interested to see the qualcomm chip properly implemented such that the hardware and software were coded in sync
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If the same chip performs significantly faster in Samsung's implementation the Sensation folks are going to be pissed. I'd also imagine Samsung will do a much better job with video drivers so it'll support tons more formats than the Sensation. With all the rumors about Tegra being the alternate due to Exynos shortages it's interesting they went with Qualcomm.

I'd like my SII to have a 4.5" screen and the back cover of this phone. That's all.

I'm not real smart on this aspect of this technology (chips and perfrormance), but I really have doubt that the benchmarks accurately reflect real world performance.
I have an SGS2 and say take my Evo 3D, turn on hotspot, run my SGS2 off the Evo, and do a Speedtest app test on each; the Evo measures 7-9M's, the SGS2 runs 3ish.
I immediately run a series of graphic heavy site's simultaneously and the SG will finish quicker every time.
I'll run a comparison of Thunderbird on the almighty Verizon LTE.
The Speedtests are Th:19-21 lol, SGS (Hotspot... ting to Wimax) measuring 3ish, and and AGAIN,when it comes to site downloads SGS2 is just faster (more marginally).
That said, the Sensation was a disappointment. Makes sense to me that it wasn't all the chips fault.
But...all that said,gut tells me, those enjoying the SGS2 like I have are gonna be up for a let down in performance with Herc.
Hope I'm wrong. Been anticipating it myself.

rockky said:
I'm not real smart on this aspect of this technology (chips and perfrormance), but I really have doubt that the benchmarks accurately reflect real world performance.
I have an SGS2 and say take my Evo 3D, turn on hotspot, run my SGS2 off the Evo, and do a Speedtest app test on each; the Evo measures 7-9M's, the SGS2 runs 3ish.
I immediately run a series of graphic heavy site's simultaneously and the SG will finish quicker every time.
I'll run a comparison of Thunderbird on the almighty Verizon LTE.
The Speedtests are Th:19-21 lol, SGS (Hotspot... ting to Wimax) measuring 3ish, and and AGAIN,when it comes to site downloads SGS2 is just faster (more marginally).
That said, the Sensation was a disappointment. Makes sense to me that it wasn't all the chips fault.
But...all that said,gut tells me, those enjoying the SGS2 like I have are gonna be up for a let down in performance with Herc.
Hope I'm wrong. Been anticipating it myself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're basically comparing LTE (VZW), Wi-Max (Sprint), and HSPA+ (AT&T) which has nothing to do with the phone's processor. Play HD videos on the Sensation/E3D (Qualcomm) and SGS2 (Exynos) and you'll be quite surprised at the difference in real world performance. jlevy73 brings up an interesting point in that devs seem to be getting better perfromance out of the Sensation now that it's unlocked than HTC was able to. But devs are still dependent on the drivers provided by the OEMs so the Qualcomm chip on HTC phones might still end up having a real world performance deficit no matter how much dev support it gets.

BarryH_GEG said:
You're basically comparing LTE (VZW), Wi-Max (Sprint), and HSPA+ (AT&T) which has nothing to do with the phone's processor. Play HD videos on the Sensation/E3D (Qualcomm) and SGS2 (Exynos) and you'll be quite surprised at the difference in real world performance. jlevy73 brings up an interesting point in that devs seem to be getting better perfromance out of the Sensation now that it's unlocked than HTC was able to. But devs are still dependent on the drivers provided by the OEMs so the Qualcomm chip on HTC phones might still end up having a real world performance deficit no matter how much dev support it gets.
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OK...but still don't totally understand. Processors aren't a factor in how fast data is transmitted?

rockky said:
OK...but still don't totally understand. Processors aren't a factor in how fast data is transmitted?
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Click to collapse
The incoming data isn't coming in fast enough to tax the processor. Testing something locally on the phone like video, flash-based web pages, and running multiple apps are a better test of a processors performance. Software and drivers make a big difference too. The browser on the SGS2 is hardware optimized where the Sensation/E3D's are not and it shows in everyday use.

BarryH_GEG said:
The incoming data isn't coming in fast enough to tax the processor. Testing something locally on the phone like video, flash-based web pages, and running multiple apps are a better test of a processors performance. Software and drivers make a big difference too. The browser on the SGS2 is hardware optimized where the Sensation/E3D's are not and it shows in everyday use.
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Thanks. Good to know that.

BarryH_GEG said:
The incoming data isn't coming in fast enough to tax the processor. Testing something locally on the phone like video, flash-based web pages, and running multiple apps are a better test of a processors performance. Software and drivers make a big difference too. The browser on the SGS2 is hardware optimized where the Sensation/E3D's are not and it shows in everyday use.
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Suffice to say then that the US devices will suffer some in the performance debt if the Qualcomms are employed vs
Vs the Exynos??

rockky said:
Thanks. Good to know that.
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lol 3G/4G is like your internet connection on PC has nothing to do with how powerful the CPU is.

nraudigy2 said:
lol 3G/4G is like your internet connection on PC has nothing to do with how powerful the CPU is.
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That's true, but how fast a page renders, especially one heavy in javascript and flash does provide an insight into the cpu/gpu. I have the crapbolt, I mean Thunderbolt and LTE absolutely flies (i.e. 30mb/down). With my SGS2 on AT&T's network I get about 5mb/down. If I load up androidcentral.com (which is very heavy on graphics, flash, etc) the SGS2 renders the page 2-3X faster than my Thunderbolt. You can see the rat in the cage processor of the Thunderbolt choking to render all those graphics.

jlevy73 said:
Actually the Sensation chip sin't nearly as crappy as it was prior to getting s-off. Once developers were able to make kernel mods and other tweaks the chip performs much better than it did out of the box. I think some of the poor benchmark scores can be attributed to the qHD screen of the Sensation. However, I ran cf-bench last night with both my sgs2 and sensation clocked at 1.5ghz and the Sensation beat it each time. The gpu of the adreno 220 is surprisingly good. I would be interested to see the qualcomm chip properly implemented such that the hardware and software were coded in sync
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Unfortunately....
qhd dosent have much to do with it.
the gpu on the SD gets OC'd as the cpu is oc.
the Ex is a more robust processor + Mali is a more powerful GPU.

Maedhros said:
Unfortunately....
qhd dosent have much to do with it.
the gpu on the SD gets OC'd as the cpu is oc.
the Ex is a more robust processor + Mali is a more powerful GPU.
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Click to collapse
The sensations qhd screen has 35% more pixels than the samsung s ii. It has a significant impact on processor work load and benchmarks. At 1.2GHz the Exynos 4210 is much better than the Qualcomm 8060, but at 1.5Ghz the Qualcomm will outperform an Exynos at 1.2Ghz.

FishTaco said:
The sensations qhd screen has 35% more pixels than the samsung s ii. It has a significant impact on processor work load and benchmarks. At 1.2GHz the Exynos 4210 is much better than the Qualcomm 8060, but at 1.5Ghz the Qualcomm will outperform an Exynos at 1.2Ghz.
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Sadly, it doesn't. Maybe if you removed vcore it would but I have both devices and even clocked to 1.7, the Sensation cannot match the SGS2 in any benchmark I tried except cf-bench.

FishTaco said:
The sensations qhd screen has 35% more pixels than the samsung s ii. It has a significant impact on processor work load and benchmarks.
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Click to collapse
But if that is the case, then there isn't much excuse for the fact almost every Tegra 2 device with qhd displays out there, 1ghz, has beaten the Qualcomm chip in the sensation on every review I have watched. The Tegra devices use qhd's and yet are clocked lower the the sensations, yet out performs it significantly. Further more, about the pixels, the sensation only displays most quadrants on the 480*800 pixels anyway, because for some reason quite applications aren't scaled propyl for example in quadrant benchmark. Also, because most bechmarks count frames on 2d/3d graphics to help sus speed, I often find my galaxy s2 always hovers around 60fps. Thats because it has been limited to that by Samsung, so the true bechmark speed of that galaxy s2 is higher than what is show on stock firmware.

danielsf said:
But if that is the case, then there isn't much excuse for the fact almost every Tegra 2 device with qhd displays out there, 1ghz, has beaten the Qualcomm chip in the sensation on every review I have watched. The Tegra devices use qhd's and yet are clocked lower the the sensations, yet out performs it significantly. Further more, about the pixels, the sensation only displays most quadrants on the 480*800 pixels anyway, because for some reason quite applications aren't scaled propyl for example in quadrant benchmark. Also, because most bechmarks count frames on 2d/3d graphics to help sus speed, I often find my galaxy s2 always hovers around 60fps. Thats because it has been limited to that by Samsung, so the true bechmark speed of that galaxy s2 is higher than what is show on stock firmware.
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Yes qhd makes a difference. Look at PC's as an example.
Have you seen what a SGS2 does with Tegra 2? You'll be surprised.
Sensation is not even A9 cortex based, can't compete with the rest of dual-cores.

Is Qualcomm cheating in Vellamo?

Some food for thought,,
Is Qualcomm cheating in Vellamo?
A few days ago we were happy to report about the first set of leaked HTC One X scores on an American device powered by Qualcomm’s new 28nm S4 chip.
The scores look quite good for Qualcomm, but since we got hold of an Asus Transformer Prime we decided to dig a bid deeper. Both Nvidia and Qualcomm do not want to get involved in official fight but we were quite surprised with what we learned. We also talked to some engineers that want to remain unnamed and we came up with a few interesting things.
The fastest CPU in Quadrant is Hummingbird S5PC110 from Nexus S as tested here.
Since we have tested this phone you can easily tell that this benchmark doesn't really use two or four cores properly. In this test S4 scores 4920 where the Tegra 3 based Transformer Prime scores 3954 and Tegra 2 scores 2154 on a custom ROM Optimus 2X.
The second test is the Vellamo benchmark was a bit more disturbing as once you run it you see Qualcomm ads all over it. This didn't give us much confidence and it turns out that Qualcomm has a lot of power over this particular benchmark.
Asus Transformer Prime scores 1408, while Qualcomm in Vellamo scores over 2000, our guess is between 2200 and 2300 as we didn't see the full number. Our good buddy Anand compared the One S powered by the S4 as well as the One X powered by Tegra 3 and you can see that Tegra 3 on this phone usually ends up faster or tied with the S4. It is faster in Sunspider Javascript benchmark 0.9.1, loses by a few points in Browsermark to S4 based HTC One S and dominates GLBenchmark. There is no 2X performance lead that we saw in the leaked S4 benches and frankly we see no point in taking Vellamo seriously until the issue is addressed.
Our engineering friends are telling us that Velamo disables some hardware acceleration in compositing Deap Sea Canvas and See the sun canvas subtest. Honeycomb and ICS support hardware acceleration by default and disabling this probably hurt the general score. One can argue that it hurts S4 scores as well, but it definitely hurts Tegra 3 more. The benchmark isn't flushing commands in the Pixel Blender subtest and there is a suspicion that this might help Qualcomm S4 to gain a better score.
The most important issue is the fact that it is unclear how Vellamo scores sub test scores. In Third party benchmarks such as Sun Spider and Google V8 it turns out that Vellamo penalizes high Google V8 scores and if your score gets too high in V8, the general score gets lower. There are a lot of benchmarks out there and some of the ones that like more cores include Antutu, CF benchmark and Moonbat.
French enthusiasts managed to run Antutu here, and Tegra 3 phone scores 10597, while the S4 based HTC One S scores 6458. This doesn't look so good for the phone that is based on S4 cores that should go after ARM’s upcoming A15 and it looks like that it cannot really beat the A9-based Tegra 3. In the real world, as long as the application is aware of four cores, there is a good chance that Tegra 3 will end up faster than the S4.
Naturally if you are reading this from the US and you really like your LTE from AT&T or Verison, I guess that you won’t have much choice and you will get the HTC One X with Qualcomm S4 as this chip also supports LTE. In the US it’s all about LTE and in Europe despite the fact that countries like Austria have LTE for more than a year now, even at €50 for 40GB there is almost no interest whatsoever. Networks need to put more advertising money and make 4G cool and it might happen. Of course, the lack of 4G devices is also an issue, but technology has a way of catching up.
The story gets even better when you know that there are lot of former ATI employees who take care of Adreno graphics and if natural selection and theory of evolution have taught us anything, it is that Nvidia and ATI are sworn enemies in any universe. Some readers might see a pinch of poetic justice in all of this, as Nvidia was accused of tweaking its GPU drivers to score more in PC benchmarks years ago.
Tudor Brown, the president of ARM that we meet a few years back at GlobalFoundries Dresden fab, once said that ARM does not want to get involved in GHz fight and this is now exactly what is going on, as punters are using benchmarks to prove of A is faster than B. Frankly I would be more concerned about battery life that I can get from a brand new phone as we got from five day battery life on feature phones to a day or so of battery life, and with LTE and heavy use, even this can go down to a few hours at best. If I found myself in Qualcomm’s shoes, this is what I would emphasize, the new 28nm process and energy efficiency, not skewed benchmarks.
Phones should be about the overall user experience, but how can you benchmark experience? It's a very subjective category and can hardly be expressed with cold numbers and statistics. We are not talking about PC components and the race for more performance, smartphones should be viewed as a complete package, battery life, build quality, UI and design come into play. Sheer performance is just one aspect and for many users it is still not the deciding factor and we believe it should not be.
In any case, watching the phone market will definitely be fun in the months to come.
Click to expand...
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Source: Here

arthasz said:
Some food for thought,,
Source: Here
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haha fun stuff ill quote some of it in my thread if you don't mind thanks
to be honest this is exactly what i felt the moment i thought the score, its ridiculous
glad we got confirmation from some devs too
---------- Post added at 12:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 AM ----------
speaking of which, their Adreno3x series is far from ready
Qualcomm has Imagination
Apparently they might go with PowerVR for the windows s4 devices, i find this hard to believe
Semi accurate is part of this fud game

Now things make sense. That's why people don't blindly trust these benchmark score. Try real work applications you'll better idea of the device like running 12 HD video in T3 etc.

I've always trusted Antutu
& apparently, the tegra 3 version is a beast, scoring over 10,000!
My SGS2 scores just 4,700 on gingerbread & around 5,700 on ICS.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

My overclocked (1,4 GHz) Desire Z (ICS with Sense 4.0A) got around 1 200 points in Vellamo, in graph it was just above Transformer Prime. Qualcomm must cheating.
Edit: added screenshots (due to my bad memory - it was just above while at 1,4 GHz ), at 1,6 GHz it is will be better than Prime (according to benchmark)

Reremnu said:
My overclocked (1,4 GHz) Desire Z (ICS with Sense 4.0A) got around 1 200 points in Vellamo, in graph it was just above Transformer Prime. Qualcomm must cheating.
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Click to collapse
hahaha now that is crazy, disappointed that qualcomm took this direction they always been more transparent
actually its wrong that they make a test themselves it can never be considered impartial
snapdragon 4 cores are impressive as they are they don't need this kind of fud just because they don't have a quad ready

If this is really true, how about other benchmarks with other devices? can they be trusted?

[Q] Is exynos worth buying?

The snapdragon version isn't available in my country, so I will have to buy the exynos (Pretty cheap right now $500 equivalent). The thing is reviews say the snapdragon doesn't lag a bit while exynos is made for a large device.
Is the performance really this bad? I'm not into eons right now by the way.

No its not worth buying the snapdragon version. My s4 is faster than my note...
Sent from my GT-I9505 using xda app-developers app

With HMP enabled there is no comparison between the two, exynos is up to 50% faster and potentially more efficient. With HMP disabled (as things currently are) then qualcomm is the slightly better chip, but I'm not convinced that the difference is enough to prefer one soc over the other...
In short Exynos 5420 is artificially neutered to seem worse than qualcomm, yet -even so- going either way won't make much of a difference...

Do you have any benchmarks to prove your claim of a speed bump of 50 %?
to OP
There are a lot of threads about Exynos vs snapdragon, long story short
Exynos , tad better cpu
Snapdragon tad better gpu
I've had both, ended with exynos , because I didn't need 4g, but needed 32 GB ( in scandinavia 4 G seems to be 16 gb only)
Lag was more or less the same
I felt the battery time on the exynos was a tad better
They felt equally as snappy when they needed to
BUT!!!
App support was a tad better on Snapdragon, ie more apps in the plastore worked with the snapdragon version, a few more games etc... no big deal for me, but still get me ticked of when I noticed a few apps I bought weren't compatible ( yet?!) with the new exynos chip ( but worked with my sammy S3 also exynos chip, older )

Exynos is fine. I've played with both and from a UI and app use perspective you can't tell the difference. Adreno's a bit faster than Mali but no so much as to drastically alter performance. Some games are better optimized for Adreno so depending on your choice of games it could make a difference. As for app compatibility it's more likely the 2,560x1,600 display that's causing the issue not the specific SoC. If there were huge differences between Exynos and S-800 or drastic app performance differences and app compatibility issues it would be all over the N3 forum and it's not.

DeBoX said:
Do you have any benchmarks to prove your claim of a speed bump of 50 %?
to
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HMP for 8 cores have not yet released but look at Note 3 Neo, it uses 2 less large cores and it posts the same antutu score as our note, so by adding two more large cores you can expect the score to be about 50% more. As I said that is only true were all 8 cores would be used at the same time and they are not throttled (that is why I said "up to").

Stevethegreat said:
Look at Note 3 Neo, it uses 2 less large cores and it posts the same antutu score as our note
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Not really. It also has a 267 PPI display which is benefitting its graphics scores in AnTuTu compared to the SGS4 at 441 PPI and N3 at 386 PPI.
http://www.nairaland.com/1597298/samsung-budget-galaxy-note-neo
S-800 vs. Exynos on the N3...

BarryH_GEG said:
Not really. It also has a 267 PPI display which is benefitting its graphics scores in AnTuTu compared to the SGS4
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I was more properly referring to CPU scores which are the only ones benefitted from HMP.
I ran a quick AnTuTu (cpu) test to my Exynos 5420 equipped note and here are the results: http://i.imgur.com/zD32DZQ.png
Notice how remarkably similar they are to note neo's cpu score:
http://www.gsmarena.com/showpic.php3?sImg=newsimg/14/01/sgn3n-leak/gsmarena_006.jpg&idNews=7538
Note that note neo has only two large cores which are clocked lower by 10% compared to exynos 5420 and it still posts almost the same score merely by employing the help of the small cores. Now add two large cores more and you'd get 50% more performance, it's simple math really...
Now I'm not saying that it would be a performance that we would actually see in most occasions , it would either be throttled or -even- not supported by most apps but still it's potentially there (which was my point by saying "up to").
What will *definitely* be there if HMP is to be enabled is better battery -though- as it would make more efficient use of the small cores. Since exynos 5422 is also on 28nm yet has HMP enabled leads me to believe that we lack HMP for strategic reasons (so that samsung will sell more exynos 5422 / qualcomm equipped machines)

Stevethegreat said:
I was more properly referring to CPU scores which are the only ones benefitted from HMP.
I ran a quick AnTuTu (cpu) test to my Exynos 5420 equipped note and here are the results: http://i.imgur.com/zD32DZQ.png
Notice how remarkably similar they are to note neo's cpu score:
http://www.gsmarena.com/showpic.php3?sImg=newsimg/14/01/sgn3n-leak/gsmarena_006.jpg&idNews=7538
Note that note neo has only two large cores which are clocked lower by 10% compared to exynos 5420 and it still posts almost the same score merely by employing the help of the small cores. Now add two large cores more and you'd get 50% more performance, it's simple math really...
Now I'm not saying that it would be a performance that we would actually see in most occasions , it would either be throttled or -even- not supported by most apps but still it's potentially there (which was my point by saying "up to").
What will *definitely* be there if HMP is to be enabled is better battery -though- as it would make more efficient use of the small cores. Since exynos 5422 is also on 28nm yet has HMP enabled leads me to believe that we lack HMP for strategic reasons (so that samsung will sell more exynos 5422 / qualcomm equipped machines)
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You can't divorce the impact of display area size and PPI from CPU performance. The GPU doesn't absolve the CPU's role in graphics output. An i3 PC with a killer graphics card will perform worse graphically than an i7 PC with a lesser card because most computational (not rendering, texture mapping, vectoring, and decoding) work is still done on the CPU. So I have no idea what AnTuTu's testing to come up with a CPU rating in isolation but if it's a real-time performance test the CPU's role in graphics output is impacting it. So comparing the Neo with a 5.5" display and 267 PPI against the N10.1-14 with a 10.1" display and 299 PPI isn't going to get you a relevant CPU comparison. That's why I used the N3 and SGS4 as comparisons because only the PPI is off. And the Neo would be well behind the SGS4 in the cumulative AnTuTu test if it had the same PPI because the lower workload of the lower PPI is artificially enhancing its score. At the end of the day an isolated CPU number is pretty meaningless. It's like bench horsepower in a car vs. horsepower to the wheels. A higher bench rating means nothing because none of us drive an engine, we drive a car. The total AnTuTu number (AKA: drive train loss) is more relevant even though it doesn't support the point you're trying to make about HMP.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_processing_unit#Computational_functions

BarryH_GEG said:
You can't divorce the impact of display area size and PPI from CPU performance. The GPU doesn't absolve the CPU's role in graphics output. An i3 PC with a killer graphics card will perform worse graphically than an i7 PC with a lesser card because most computational (not rendering, texture mapping, vectoring, and decoding) work is still done on the CPU. So I have no idea what AnTuTu's testing to come up with a CPU rating in isolation but if it's a real-time performance test the CPU's role in graphics output is impacting it. So comparing the Neo with a 5.5" display and 267 PPI against the N10.1-14 with a 10.1" display and 299 PPI isn't going to get you a relevant CPU comparison. That's why I used the N3 and SGS4 as comparisons because only the PPI is off. And the Neo would be well behind the SGS4 in the cumulative AnTuTu test if it had the same PPI because the lower workload of the lower PPI is artificially enhancing its score. At the end of the day an isolated CPU number is pretty meaningless. It's like bench horsepower in a car vs. horsepower to the wheels. A higher bench rating means nothing because none of us drive an engine, we drive a car. The total AnTuTu number (AKA: drive train loss) is more relevant even though it doesn't support the point you're trying to make about HMP.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_processing_unit#Computational_functions
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Maybe so, but the benchmark in question runs off screen. So while in real life resolution matter in Antutu Cpu score, or super pi , or, or, it doesn't. HMP will make the Cpu 50% faster in multi threaded operations, I never claimed it makes the total machine faster by the same amount. For example an HMP equipped note 2014 will score around 40000 in Antutu , NOT 49500. I don't see where we disagree, I merely think you misunderstood my initial claim

If you live for real world use, the Exynos Note is a wonderful tablet. If you live in the world of needing the highest quadrant and antutu scores you should pass.
Sent via Tapatalk and my thumbs.

Stevethegreat said:
With HMP enabled there is no comparison between the two, exynos is up to 50% faster and potentially more efficient. With HMP disabled (as things currently are) then qualcomm is the slightly better chip, but I'm not convinced that the difference is enough to prefer one soc over the other...
In short Exynos 5420 is artificially neutered to seem worse than qualcomm, yet -even so- going either way won't make much of a difference...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How did you enable HMP? My note 3 snap dragon is so much faster than my note.
Sent from my SM-N900T using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Stevethegreat said:
HMP for 8 cores have not yet released but look at Note 3 Neo, it uses 2 less large cores and it posts the same antutu score as our note, so by adding two more large cores you can expect the score to be about 50% more. As I said that is only true were all 8 cores would be used at the same time and they are not throttled (that is why I said "up to").
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It will never be released for Exynos 5420 either, unless Samsung want alot of complains about fried Exynos 5420 chipsets. Also they already said it wont release HMP for Exynos 5420 cause of the heat.

dt33 said:
It will never be released for Exynos 5420 either, unless Samsung want alot of complains about fried Exynos 5420 chipsets. Also they already said it wont release HMP for Exynos 5420 cause of the heat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once again, that's not the reason that they won't release it, if anything the chip would be cooler because more use of A7 cores would be possible and if all 8 cores are needed Samsung could choose to throttle the thing. The reason that they don't release it is the Exynos 5422 which is the same chip but with all 8 cores enabled (also 28nm)...
So no fried socs, lesser profits more like

Why octa-core?

The galaxy tab s products that are available to me have an octa-core processor, with the high speed cores being 1.9ghz. I can't really understand why Samsung chose to use that instead of a 2.3ghz quad-core like in the tab pro.

See Wikipedia for an explanation of the concept: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_...multi-processing_.28global_task_scheduling.29

Because the Exynos 5 Octa-core is the one processor that Samsung has to be able to compete with Snapdragon 800, and is cheaper to implement since it's their own processor. I don't buy the Octa-core hype, I'd be happier with the Snapdragon 800 honestly like on the Tab PRO 8.4.

The question is:
Does TAB S use the 8 cores at the same time?
It seams it does NOT, little cores are only used when low power is required..
So performance wise, this CPU is slower than SD 800

ssuper2k said:
The question is:
Does TAB S use the 8 cores at the same time?
It seams it does NOT, little cores are only used when low power is required..
So performance wise, this CPU is slower than SD 800
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And yet I am getting 35,300 on Antutu using Shaheers t800 rom which is higher than any other current tablet or phone. (Shaheer's rom should go out of beta today - don't flash until final has been posted).
The Tab Pro 8.4 Antutu is 32,806.

I CANT PLAY NOVA 3 with exynos !
AND GAMING IS NOT SO SMOOTH ! STILL A BIT LAGGY

I can see the argument that you don't always need full power, thus the four slow cores, but since all cores can't run at once, it seems a cheat to have 1.9ghz as the top speed for the faster four cores. Since, or at least I assume, cores step up and down as needed, it seems to me a snapdragon 800 or higher at 2.3ghz or higher would have been just fine. I mean, if you are going to put in 3gb of RAM, then you should put in a great cpu also and not pretend less (1.9ghz) is a better contribution to what is supposed to be a premium tablet.

And yet I don't think samsung is doing enough to utilizing this hardware capability. In theory it should run at least 4x faster and 6x more effecient then the snap dragon and apple current A8 chip. It has failed to outshine the competitors because samsung software department sucks. Samsung hardware is still great though.

sku|| said:
I CANT PLAY NOVA 3 with exynos !
AND GAMING IS NOT SO SMOOTH ! STILL A BIT LAGGY
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Blame the developer for not making it compatible. Tegra powered Htc one x is incompatible too so not sure that is exynos issue..

i wish my t805 had Full HD screen resolution :cyclops:

Funny. Was just browsing the web a bit on my i5 ultrabook and it occurred to me that the browser on my Tab S is actually faster. If gaming is your primary thing, I'd buy the Nvidia Shield, not the Tab S. This tablet is designed for eye candy media consumption (internet and video) not for gaming enthusiasts. Try running your PC video card at 2560 x 1600 on ultra and see what you get.

i had heard from a Samsung rep i actually enjoy talking to that Sammy had just figured the all cores at once and we should see updates that turn that feature on. when this will happen who knows. i also did not ask him for a link and now cant find that info on the web so when i see him again soon i will get more info.
i would assume (insert you know what that means) that when/if this happens the full power of this setup would greatly improve?
anyway i have had my Tab S running snappy for me and no complaints at this time

You cannot compare the clock speeds from two different processors. For instance, you can't compare the 1.9GHz quad-core of the Exynos to the 2.3GHz quad-core of the Snapdragon 800. This doesn't mean anything. If you compare the clock speed of two Snapdragon chips, that's ok, or if you compare the clock speed of two Exynos chips, then that's ok too. Comparing the clock speed of an Intel chip against the clock speed of an AMD chip, is the same as comparing the clock speed of an Exynos chip to the clock speed of a Snapdragon chip.
The Exynos chip in this tablet has been shown to compete very well/close with the Snapdragon on every level except GPU. The Mali GPU in this chip just doesn't match the Adreno GPU from the Snapdragon. However, the RAM is faster in the Exynos than the Snapdragon.
That said, I am a fan of the Snapdragon chip, of course. I was holding off to see if the LTE variant of this tablet would have the Snapdragon 800, but instead they shipped with an Intel LTE modem. Besides apps/games not being optimized for Exynos, I am fairly satisfied with my purchase. I'm just anxious to get CyanogenMod(or any other AOSP ROM installed on it).

fletch33 said:
i had heard from a Samsung rep i actually enjoy talking to that Sammy had just figured the all cores at once and we should see updates that turn that feature on. when this will happen who knows. i also did not ask him for a link and now cant find that info on the web so when i see him again soon i will get more info.
i would assume (insert you know what that means) that when/if this happens the full power of this setup would greatly improve?
anyway i have had my Tab S running snappy for me and no complaints at this time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could also mean increased battery consumption,don't know. Overall I am satisfied with this Tab including battery life.

There are 3 different performace results:
a) what Exynos 520 does achieve in practice now, measured bei some benchmarks and real world performance (<= Snapdragon 800)
b) what it could do theoretically - but will never happen due to driver and scheduler etc issues (>> Snapdragon)
c) what it will do some day in near future on an optimized ROM (somewhere in between?)
Fortunately the Exynos 5420 does support all 8 cores in parallel, see here:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Samsung-Exynos-5420-Octa-SoC.103633.0.html

pibach said:
There are 3 different performace results:
a) what Exynos 520 does achieve in practice now, measured bei some benchmarks and real world performance (<= Snapdragon 800)
b) what it could do theoretically - but will never happen due to driver and scheduler etc issues (>> Snapdragon)
c) what it will do some day in near future on an optimized ROM (somewhere in between?)
Fortunately the Exynos 5420 does support all 8 cores in parallel, see here:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Samsung-Exynos-5420-Octa-SoC.103633.0.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wish I knew how. Probably a linux thing. ...
If it is possible to implement in today's existing source, I'm sure @AndreiLux would know about it ?

UpInTheAir said:
Wish I knew how. Probably a linux thing. ...
If it is possible to implement in today's existing source, I'm sure @AndreiLux would know about it ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's impossible.

AndreiLux said:
It's impossible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What and why?

pibach said:
What and why?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.androidauthority.com/sam...ta-can-use-eight-cores-simultaneously-267316/
I've found a few articles saying it should support it, then a couple Deva saying they had to goto the 5422 for a working implementation of HMP.
Here is a post from odroid
http://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=97&t=5651

That's weird. The (newer) 5422 supports HMP but not 3gb RAM.

[Q] Do you feel 2gb is not enough?

Hi well I currently own a Galaxy tab s 10.5, however i'm not 100% pleased with it. So I was wondering if i should get the tab pro 8.4 instead, but don't know if the 2gb of ram is something that hold the tab pro.
My main problem with the S is the inconsistent performance which I think is because the exynos. On my S4 the performance is very consistent.
Thanks.

Well I hw the 8.4 and wouldn't get anything else, its justnthe right size, I do have a 10 ipad2 and I usenthe 8.4 way more.
As far as memory for it I'm assuming you mean sdcard I would get as big as you can afford,
Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

cloud71 said:
Well I hw the 8.4 and wouldn't get anything else, its justnthe right size, I do have a 10 ipad2 and I usenthe 8.4 way more.
As far as memory for it I'm assuming you mean sdcard I would get as big as you can afford,
Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I mean ram, not storage space. The size also for the tab s is something that bugs me after using it for a week i don't like the way a lot of apps looks, they are not optimized for an android tablet with this screen size.

CyberManiaK said:
No, I mean ram, not storage space. The size also for the tab s is something that bugs me after using it for a week i don't like the way a lot of apps looks, they are not optimized for an android tablet with this screen size.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't had a prob with it, run all kinds of stuff on it, with it stock and more so rooted and with custom rom that is debloated.
Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

I have never had a problem with not enough RAM memory.
Even not problems with CPU on my 8.4 .
Stay tuned for my first CM11 theme soon.

Hello,
More RAM is never enough. You are comparing technical detail with a subjective detail (logical vs sentimental). It is not a fair comparison. So you must choose what is more important to you.

CyberManiaK said:
My main problem with the S is the inconsistent performance which I think is because the exynos. On my S4 the performance is very consistent.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The S4 has 2GB of memory. If you're happy with the S4's performance, than the Tab Pro's 2GB of memory should perform similarly. I think Samsung stuck 3GB of ram in the Exynos models in order to match the performance of the Snapdragon 800 / 2GB RAM models. I read the Exynos + 3GB combo barely outperforms the Snapdragon 800 + 2GB combo on benchmarks. The Exynos combo has to perform better to help justify its price.

HKSpeed said:
The S4 has 2GB of memory. If you're happy with the S4's performance, than the Tab Pro's 2GB of memory should perform similarly. I think Samsung stuck 3GB of ram in the Exynos models in order to match the performance of the Snapdragon 800 / 2GB RAM models. I read the Exynos + 3GB combo barely outperforms the Snapdragon 800 + 2GB combo on benchmarks. The Exynos combo has to perform better to help justify its price.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The 3Gb ram is only for the 12.2 version all others are 2Gb.
Never run into problems with my 2Gb (smt520), and I run ram intensive apps

.:GraveD:. said:
The 3Gb ram is only for the 12.2 version all others are 2Gb.
Never run into problems with my 2Gb (smt520), and I run ram intensive apps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the OP is comparing the 3GB Tab S 10.5 vs 2GB Tab Pro 8.4

Thanks, Cool i just order the pro 8.4 to give it a run this weekend to see how it run.
Yeah i was talking about the tab s 10.5 vs pro 8.4

CyberManiaK said:
Thanks, Cool i just order the pro 8.4 to give it a run this weekend to see how it run.
Yeah i was talking about the tab s 10.5 vs pro 8.4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello,
See: http://www.anandtech.com/print/7886/samsung-galaxy-tab-pro-84-and-101-review and http://www.anandtech.com/show/8197/samsung-galaxy-tab-s-review-105-84inch

Well I got the tab pro 8.4 yesterday and damn is a night to day difference this one is way smoother than the tab s. And it's exactly what I was looking for, it behaves exactly if not better than my S4.
However I have some questions, is normal that it gets hot like 38~40c while browsing, the backside is not very hot to the touch but yeah is warmer than what I'm a used to.
BTW: @cviniciusm thanks for those links.

CyberManiaK said:
Well I got the tab pro 8.4 yesterday and damn is a night to day difference this one is way smoother than the tab s. And it's exactly what I was looking for, it behaves exactly if not better than my S4.
However I have some questions, is normal that it gets hot like 38~40c while browsing, the backside is not very hot to the touch but yeah is warmer than what I'm a used to.
BTW: @cviniciusm thanks for those links.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's pretty normal for a s800.
However it only gets warm on the left of the device and it only started to effect performance after nearly an hour of heavy gaming. (thermal throtling)

Hamza Murad said:
That's pretty normal for a s800.
However it only gets warm on the left of the device and it only started to effect performance after nearly an hour of heavy gaming. (thermal throtling)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello,
About big.LITTLE technology(http://www.arm.com/files/pdf/big_LITTLE_Technology_the_Futue_of_Mobile.pdf and http://www.arm.com/products/processors/technologies/biglittleprocessing.php?intcid=TopNaviL16456# ) :
"High performance requires fast CPUs which in turn can be difficult to fit in a mobile power or thermal budget. At the same time battery technology has not evolved at the same rate as CPU technology. Therefore today we are in a situation where smartphones require higher performance, but the same power consumption.
The development and design of next generation mobile processors is necessarily guided by the following factors:
1. At the high performance end: high compute capability but within the thermal bounds
2. At the low performance end: very low power consumption
ARM big.LITTLE™ technology has been designed to address these requirements."
So, you will get high performance with Pro 8.4 (Snapdragon 800) at expenses of heat and high battery consumption.
Very interesting we are seeing/getting the alternative evolution of processors technology as battery technology has slow evolution, so Samsung is investing on this technology [emoji6]
Pro 10.1 and 12.2 and Tab S use big.LITTLE technology.
See too: ARM big.LITTLE Technology Explained: http://youtu.be/KClygZtp8mA

cviniciusm said:
Hello,
About big.LITTLE technology(http://www.arm.com/files/pdf/big_LITTLE_Technology_the_Futue_of_Mobile.pdf and http://www.arm.com/products/processors/technologies/biglittleprocessing.php?intcid=TopNaviL16456# ) :
"High performance requires fast CPUs which in turn can be difficult to fit in a mobile power or thermal budget. At the same time battery technology has not evolved at the same rate as CPU technology. Therefore today we are in a situation where smartphones require higher performance, but the same power consumption.
The development and design of next generation mobile processors is necessarily guided by the following factors:
1. At the high performance end: high compute capability but within the thermal bounds
2. At the low performance end: very low power consumption
ARM big.LITTLE™ technology has been designed to address these requirements."
So, you will get high performance with Pro 8.4 (Snapdragon 800) at expenses of heat and high battery consumption.
Very interesting we are seeing/getting the alternative evolution of processors technology as battery technology has slow evolution, so Samsung is investing on this technology [emoji6]
Pro 10.1 and 12.2 and Tab S use big.LITTLE technology.
See too: ARM big.LITTLE Technology Explained: http://youtu.be/KClygZtp8mA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
big.LITTLE was bad implemented in exynos 5420...

panda0 said:
big.LITTLE was bad implemented in exynos 5420...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello,
It was on 5410 due to CCI-400 bug.
But it seems to be solved on 5420 as AnandTech and others says.
Do you have any sources to support the bad implementation affirmation, please?

cviniciusm said:
Hello,
It was on 5410 due to CCI-400 bug.
But it seems to be solved on 5420 as AnandTech and others says.
Do you have any sources contrary, please?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've read here in XDA Foruns that 5420 don't have HMP mode properly implemented.
It uses 4 A7 cores and 4 A15 cores. OK. But when the load of any of the A7 cores rises up, all the A7 cores are disabled and all the A15 cores are enabled. You probably knows that each A7 should call its A15 companion, but it seems that this doesn't works with the 5420. Also, there are some mentions to thermal throttling that concerns me a little.

panda0 said:
I've read here in XDA Foruns that 5420 don't have HMP mode properly implemented.
It uses 4 A7 cores and 4 A15 cores. OK. But when the load of any of the A7 cores rises up, all the A7 cores are disabled and all the A15 cores are enabled. You probably knows that each A7 should call its A15 companion, but it seems that this doesn't works with the 5420. Also, there are some mentions to thermal throttling that concerns me a little.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello,
I suppose you're right. But, I think a new kernel and driver can solve this whether not a hardware bad implementation.
More information :
1) http://www.anandtech.com/show/7811/samsungs-exynos-5422-the-ideal-biglittle-exynos-5-hexa-5260
"The 5422 supports HMP (Heterogeneous Multi-Processing), and Samsung LSI tells us that unlike the 5420 we may actually see this one used with HMP enabled."
2) http://www.arm.com/files/pdf/Hetero...ynos_5_Octa_with_ARM_bigLITTLE_Technology.pdf

Still waiting for a proper HMP kernel from Samsung otherwise Exynos is not much worth it...
smt520 stock - gt i9300 archidroid

rchtk said:
Still waiting for a proper HMP kernel from Samsung otherwise Exynos is not much worth it...
smt520 stock - gt i9300 archidroid
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello,
See http://www.anandtech.com/show/7313/samsung-announces-biglittle-mp-support-in-exynos-5420 :
"
For those not familiar, there are three big.LITTLE models, core switching, in which any of the A7 and A15 cores can be swapped, cluster switching, in which either all A7s or all A15s can be swapped, or HMP, where the kernel is aware of all cores and can schedule threads to any of the cores all at once. This final model is coming to Exynos 5420 by the end of Q4 2013 and will be available to partners shipping product based on its reference platform.
"
According CPU-Z the revision is r2p3, but I don't know what it means.
Unfortunately, I don't know how to verify/confirm whether my device has HMP (Global Task Scheduling) .
Edit: according http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big....multi-processing_.28global_task_scheduling.29
"Upstream big.LITTLE GTS patches were incorporated into the mainline Linux kernel starting with Linux 3.10. This model has been implemented in the Samsung Exynos 5 Octa (5420, 5422, 5430) and Hexa (5260)."
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