Develop Bugs

Are apps stored on the ROM partition?

Phones typically have a partition of encrypted memory for the OS and Apps. Most Win7 Phones have 512MB of this ROM. In other phones, the ROM severely limits the number or size of apps. Are apps in Windows 7 Phone stored in the ROM as well?
I didn't think so until I saw some phones have 1GB of ROM. If just the OS + 60MB of pre-installed software is allowed, what's the advantage of 1GB of ROM?

ROM should be Read Only Memory, so I guess that nothing except maybe major system updates will be installed on the ROM.

ROM is a misnomer but nevertheless the ROM partition is what manufacturers refer to for application space.
I don't see the point of having larger ROM partitions unless apps will be stored on the ROM. I'm hoping that if Windows 7 Phone stores apps on the ROM, it can efficiently recognize and install only the necessities onto the ROM and string the rest of the app over the single storage volume. Otherwise, we're looking at an OS with severely limited app storage.

I read in the Microsoft spec that any app pre-installed by the manufacturer needs to be restorable. So they probably have a backup copy of the app in the ROM section in that case.

athompson said:
I read in the Microsoft spec that any app pre-installed by the manufacturer needs to be restorable. So they probably have a backup copy of the app in the ROM section in that case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes you are correct, however, as stated in the original post, the limit for pre-installed software is 60MB.

I know that side-loading isn't possible, but I still have to ask: can you remove the sd card and load an app directly onto it with a card reader? I know that removing the card causes a hard reset, but if you pull the battery first, then can you remove the card, mess with it, replace the card and then replace the battery without having the device hard reset? It seems like you could at least access the sd card file system this way (but I'm probably missing something).

Farmer Ted said:
I know that side-loading isn't possible, but I still have to ask: can you remove the sd card and load an app directly onto it with a card reader? I know that removing the card causes a hard reset, but if you pull the battery first, then can you remove the card, mess with it, replace the card and then replace the battery without having the device hard reset? It seems like you could at least access the sd card file system this way (but I'm probably missing something).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Surely, if the OS is split between the SD and phone memory then trying to just use the SD in that way would result in corruption?
Also, I imagine that the OS does self consistency checks, in some way, so that when you reinserted the SD card it'd notice that it's been altered?
Of course, that's a guess and I could be completely wrong.

I think I read in another thread that a few people have pulled the sd card, and couldn't read it with a reader. I guess it's encrypted (makes sense, but it still sucks).

Farmer Ted said:
I think I read in another thread that a few people have pulled the sd card, and couldn't read it with a reader. I guess it's encrypted (makes sense, but it still sucks).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Da_G mentioned its like a RAID0 with striping between the internal flash and the external flash card. Striping means that the data is divided between the two storage divices, which makes access faster (since you can get them both in parallel). It also means that if one of the memory devices fails, all data is lost. Which comfirms what we've seen in the Microsoft documentation, that if you remove the flash card and replace it with a different one, all your data is lost.

athompson said:
Da_G mentioned its like a RAID0 with striping between the internal flash and the external flash card. Striping means that the data is divided between the two storage divices, which makes access faster (since you can get them both in parallel). It also means that if one of the memory devices fails, all data is lost. Which comfirms what we've seen in the Microsoft documentation, that if you remove the flash card and replace it with a different one, all your data is lost.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That makes me think, If it's like a raid0, and your internal memory has 8gb, then you dump in a 16gb card, will it be like raid where only 8gb of the 16gb will be usable (in the raid) ?

DavidinCT said:
That makes me think, If it's like a raid0, and your internal memory has 8gb, then you dump in a 16gb card, will it be like raid where only 8gb of the 16gb will be usable (in the raid) ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a good point, it doesn't sound too cool, does it. From what I understand about raid0, the purpose is to divide the data between two different disks, so you can get twice the IO bandwidth (since you can load half the file from each one, get it twice as fast). Raid0 doesn't do any backup, so if either hard drive fails, the whole thing is unrecoverable. Which is why most people don't use raid0.
But since it doesn't do any backup, it means there's no 'wasted' space, which means the full 16gb will likely be usable.

RAID0 is in ", better expression is JBOD (but data is stripped between the drives somehow).
Anyway, it is similar to current WM. There is IMGFS with some reserved space (a lot more actually, so all image updates fit in there without flashing phone, I'd be guessing that about 200MB is left as reserved space). The rest of the storage is as userspace, where are all stuff installed.

DavidinCT,
Your thinking of RAID 1 (mirroring) RAID 0 is striping without parity. So it basically writes/reads across both .. it looks like one volume but writes/reads could be on either storage.. depending on where they were written..
So.. when you remove the card .. or if you alter the card... it beaks the stripe set.. and toasts the storage volume.. if the storage is encrypted that would additionally complicate things..

[Q] Installing new SD card

I am going to replace the tiny SD card on the DInc in order to avoid the "not enough space..." messages that appeared on the recent update and to put more stuff on it. Do I need to do anything special to switch them out? Back-up and format are the only things I can think of.

if you're talking about the "low on memory" warning that relates to the space available to install apps, I don't think replacing the SD card will fix that. There are some ROMs in the Dev section you can try, if you're rooted, that have that solved.
But as for setting up the new card, you can either make a backup of the original, or just copy the contents to your computer then move them to the new card. Check that the format is FAT32, as well. It's pretty painless.

miketwoms said:
if you're talking about the "low on memory" warning that relates to the space available to install apps, I don't think replacing the SD card will fix that. There are some ROMs in the Dev section you can try, if you're rooted, that have that solved.
But as for setting up the new card, you can either make a backup of the original, or just copy the contents to your computer then move them to the new card. Check that the format is FAT32, as well. It's pretty painless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 the NAG is from the phone being to full you can start to clean some of it out though. SDmaid and 1 click cache are both good apps to have to do some "spring cleaning"

I'm stumped

Hi everybody. I am trying to get my daughters phone set up. She is 20, very busy, and I only get the phone an hour or so at a time which is frustrating. I have modded my own android phones(Note, Infuse,Gnex) so I'm not a beginner, but this captivate glide is acting a little different.
Here is where I am. CWM is installed and a backup of 2.3.6 is done, and a copy saved on my laptop. I have ardatdat's 1.2 version kernel ready to flash for root and to remove the IQcarrier junk. She will probably stay on stock, rooted since she is not into teching her phone but does want to remove ads and maybe tether to a tablet occasionally on ATT without a tethering plan- tit BU and freezing or removing the tethering manager.
I am having trouble getting the phone to recognize an 8 gb sd card. I have repartitioned it so more apps can be moved over(primary fat32 and logical-ext 2) and split the card to 4gb and 4gb.(approx)- even when just left as a one partition card with 8gb fat 32 the phone just won't recognize it. I put the old 2gb card into the phone and that one is recognized but is from a non android phone- an LG xenon.
I want to put the zip files to flash on the external sd card along with a few apk's ti install with the appinstaller. But.. the phone won't see the files. Do I have to use the internal storage?????
Don't have the phone now- it's off to work with her. So I will try later tonite. Any suggestions??
Thanks. Open for any help here. I have never had this much trouble before! Have searched for sideloading apk's, but from what I am finding it has to be rooted first??? I have checked unknown sources for install of 3rd party apps and usb debugging also checked.
I will continue my hunting for info. I'm sure it's just basic stuff I'm just not seeing. Thanks again

Ah. CWM Recovery is not compatible with the external sd card, I believe. It's located under /sdcard/external_sd but the zips are invisible in the recovery. So yes, I think you have to use internal

Aquethys said:
Ah. CWM Recovery is not compatible with the external sd card, I believe. It's located under /sdcard/external_sd but the zips are invisible in the recovery. So yes, I think you have to use internal
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for that. Did not read that anywhere! Any idea about apks on the external sd card?

Ive tried that too... The apps are located in the data partition on the kernel so that is already directed to internal... The only things most people put are Media like movies because music players scan the entire /sdcard partition and the /external_sd is in it.
Hope this helped ^o^
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I927R using xda premium

sashusmom said:
I am having trouble getting the phone to recognize an 8 gb sd card. I have repartitioned it so more apps can be moved over(primary fat32 and logical-ext 2) and split the card to 4gb and 4gb.(approx)- even when just left as a one partition card with 8gb fat 32 the phone just won't recognize it. I put the old 2gb card into the phone and that one is recognized but is from a non android phone- an LG xenon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may need to format the sd card in the phone itself to get it to show up, some people have had problems with cards formatted in other devices or a pc.
I haven't tried a dual partition card in the Glide, but I came from a Motorola Flipside which had an absolutely tiny amount of space for apps, making link2sd and the second partition virtually mandatory. The Glide, however, has 2gb internal memory for apps, and the ~3.75gb internal memory that's mounted as /sdcard that you can store apps on with the standard Move to SD build into android, so I can't imagine anyone needing more storage than that for standard apps.
You can always points Titanium Backup to /sdcard/external_sd, my backup folder tends to get pretty big since I keep multiple backups. If she's installing a ton of games that have extra downloads to the sdcard though, you can fill up the internal "sd card" pretty quickly, and there's only a couple of ways to deal with that. She can give you the phone after installing those games and downloading the extra data, and you can manually move the data over to the external SD and create symlinks yourself, which can be tedious.
Alternatively, you can modify the vold.fstab to change the mount points, putting the real external sd as /sdcard and the internal storage as /sdcard/external_sd. There's instructions for this here. The vold.fstab method is what I personally use, as I've got a 32gb sd card and far too many games that want to download 500mb+ each.

bakageta said:
You may need to format the sd card in the phone itself to get it to show up, some people have had problems with cards formatted in other devices or a pc.
I haven't tried a dual partition card in the Glide, but I came from a Motorola Flipside which had an absolutely tiny amount of space for apps, making link2sd and the second partition virtually mandatory. The Glide, however, has 2gb internal memory for apps, and the ~3.75gb internal memory that's mounted as /sdcard that you can store apps on with the standard Move to SD build into android, so I can't imagine anyone needing more storage than that for standard apps.
You can always points Titanium Backup to /sdcard/external_sd, my backup folder tends to get pretty big since I keep multiple backups. If she's installing a ton of games that have extra downloads to the sdcard though, you can fill up the internal "sd card" pretty quickly, and there's only a couple of ways to deal with that. She can give you the phone after installing those games and downloading the extra data, and you can manually move the data over to the external SD and create symlinks yourself, which can be tedious.
Alternatively, you can modify the vold.fstab to change the mount points, putting the real external sd as /sdcard and the internal storage as /sdcard/external_sd. There's instructions for this here. The vold.fstab method is what I personally use, as I've got a 32gb sd card and far too many games that want to download 500mb+ each.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi and thanks. I just read about that mod. Is it as straightforward as just rewriting that file in rootexplorer? It sounds too easy!
I was gonna format the sd card in the phone but was not sure it would format the internal card and not the external one since I can't seem to get it recognized. I would be in big do do if I erased her stuff!!! It might be a bad card and I'll try an alternate one.

Yep, it's really as easy as snagging the file, editing it, and rewriting it in root explorer (or a shell, I haven't bought root explorer so I tend to do things from the shell). As for formatting in the phone, it should list both an SD card and USB storage, the usb storage is the internal storage, and the sd card is actually the sd card, it *should* have a format option there if the card is good, even if it's not seeing the files on it.

Thank you all!!!!!
bakageta said:
Yep, it's really as easy as snagging the file, editing it, and rewriting it in root explorer (or a shell, I haven't bought root explorer so I tend to do things from the shell). As for formatting in the phone, it should list both an SD card and USB storage, the usb storage is the internal storage, and the sd card is actually the sd card, it *should* have a format option there if the card is good, even if it's not seeing the files on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Piece of cake!!!!! :highfive: We now have the external sd card (only 8gb for now) mounted instead. Whoever came up with that very clever work around is genius. That's better than apps2sd or link2sd.
Thank you so much to everyone who responded. Between all of you I have Rooted with the kernel on the internal card, and the appinstaller saw the apks when I put them on the internal card. My original 8gb card was bad. It was a cheap one- $5 or $8 dollars. I got 2 and the 2nd one works fine- formatted in my computer and phone saw it immediately. I transferred the stuff from the internal to the external. Did I need to do that? I left it on the internal incase the sd card is removed. Tethering manager is removed- att junk is frozen.
One more question if I may? If another rom is flashed, or I odin back to stock for whatever reason, does this sd card switch stay, or is it overwritten with the new rom? Just need to know what to do if I ever need to reset this phone.
I also added my google account to the market to put my paid apps on her phone but when I signed in to the play store under my account my paid apps did not show as paid. Anyone know why? I worked around it but I was surprised.
Again thanks to such a nice group of people! :highfive: I had a crash course in the captivate glide in 24 hrs. You gave me info here I don't think I could have found with continued searching.

sashusmom said:
I transferred the stuff from the internal to the external. Did I need to do that? I left it on the internal incase the sd card is removed. Tethering manager is removed- att junk is frozen.
One more question if I may? If another rom is flashed, or I odin back to stock for whatever reason, does this sd card switch stay, or is it overwritten with the new rom? Just need to know what to do if I ever need to reset this phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Moving everything that was on the internal memory to the SD card was a good call, since you swapped the mount points everything that stored stuff on the internal memory will now expect that stuff to be on the sd card. There's no need to keep it on the internal memory (you can delete everything there and it'll recreate LOST.DIR) unless you plan on swapping back at any point, in which case you could just copy stuff across before swapping back.
As for flashing another rom, that'll require you edit the vold.fstab again unless the rom has already made that change, which none of our existing roms have.
Personally, I keep the internal memory completely empty as far as daily use things go. CWR will store its backups there, as it mounts the memory independently of the vold.fstab, and all roms/kernels/etc you want to flash can go there, leaving the sd card free for things you actually use.

Bak- thank you so much for all the info. I saved the original file and I will make a copy of the edited mount file in case I need it again. If I ever get her phone back I will clear the internal card since that info is now on the external one.
I wonder how long this captivate glide will hold up with my daughter. She is very hard on her cell phones. Already case #1 broke due to a drop. 2 more are on the way. When I pointed out it could have been the phone broken she said- yeah, I know. I'll keep the case on. :victoryshe hates cases!) Hopefully this phone will get her thru her senior year in college!
Thank you everyone who pitched in to get me the info I needed to get it going. :laugh:

[Q] Newbie ?:Have a nice 64GB SD Card - How to use?

Another Newbie Question here.
So AT&T only provides the 16MB Note 2, so of course we add a nice juicy 64GB SD card. But it seems that the stock phone does not really use it for much (that I can tell) to store anything.
First question: On the stock ROM, what apps can be told to use the SD card as default, and how do you change the app settings?
Second Question, for the future: Assuming one Root's the Note 2, what can be safely moved to the SD and how? Or is another ROM required?
Humbly yours - thanks in advance!

Flame Red said:
Another Newbie Question here.
So AT&T only provides the 16MB Note 2, so of course we add a nice juicy 64GB SD card. But it seems that the stock phone does not really use it for much (that I can tell) to store anything.
First question: On the stock ROM, what apps can be told to use the SD card as default, and how do you change the app settings?
Second Question, for the future: Assuming one Root's the Note 2, what can be safely moved to the SD and how? Or is another ROM required?
Humbly yours - thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also have a 64gb card. I put all of my Titanium backups and Nandroids on the external SD (right now TWRP doesn't work with the exfat formatting of my card, so if I want to restore I'll have to move it from ext to int SD).
I also have Spotify set to store any offline music on the external SD. You can do this by installing an old version of Spotify, pointing it to external SD, then updating the app. A quick Google search will find this if it's something you want to do.
It's hard to tell you what to move to the external card without knowing what apps you use. You can get an app called Directory Bind that will point any internal SD location to your external SD. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1889550

SD card setup/directory optimization
Really like Android and the Note 2 so far.
Thanks for the directory bind guide link...interesting. Maybe my answer is somewhere in there, so I will take a look either way.
New to external SD use on Android as well (or any phone, that is). I have a 64GB sandisk as well, and It was pre-formatted for Android apparently with some s/w on it. Which is fine, if that is the way I should go.
Just playing around with it at first and copied a music album over, in similar format to my iTunes directory structure -I figured, why not. Perhaps there is a better way to structure my directories though? More general way for all apps to recognize? Moot point?
I assume different apps might require different directory structures...to be efficient, or to be able to work with those dirs/files. I'd rather have the most optimal structure now, before I start messing with creating more directories, etc down the road.
The general questions are, should I format this as something else? What is best to use? (Still looking into different file manager/transfer apps for now, and MAY root and keep stock ROM in the future, but acclimating myself with Android OS has been more than enough for now...I do enough Linux at work, so not in any rush )
Since I went there, I don't know if the OP's question was fully answered...so again, here's a quick (newbie) question for those who root but keep the stock ROM: can apps be moved to the SD card in that case? Or do I need to break out of stock ROM to do that?
Thanks in advance!

Wanted to report back that I tried a simple case of using Directory Bind for something non-critical as a test. Used it to remount Titaniumn Backup to the external SD. Yes, I know you can just point it there. Just wanted to test Directory Bind.
It seemed to work until I rebooted the phone. Then it lost all the binding even tough I had checked off to save it for reboot and saved the binds to a file. So just beware that if you were using Directory Bind for something critical - you might have to recover the phone! I removed the package for now.

dponte said:
Really like Android and the Note 2 so far.
Thanks for the directory bind guide link...interesting. Maybe my answer is somewhere in there, so I will take a look either way.
New to external SD use on Android as well (or any phone, that is). I have a 64GB sandisk as well, and It was pre-formatted for Android apparently with some s/w on it. Which is fine, if that is the way I should go.
Just playing around with it at first and copied a music album over, in similar format to my iTunes directory structure -I figured, why not. Perhaps there is a better way to structure my directories though? More general way for all apps to recognize? Moot point?
I assume different apps might require different directory structures...to be efficient, or to be able to work with those dirs/files. I'd rather have the most optimal structure now, before I start messing with creating more directories, etc down the road.
The general questions are, should I format this as something else? What is best to use? (Still looking into different file manager/transfer apps for now, and MAY root and keep stock ROM in the future, but acclimating myself with Android OS has been more than enough for now...I do enough Linux at work, so not in any rush )
Since I went there, I don't know if the OP's question was fully answered...so again, here's a quick (newbie) question for those who root but keep the stock ROM: can apps be moved to the SD card in that case? Or do I need to break out of stock ROM to do that?
Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If your'e just talking about music, you can put it in any folder and any structure you'd like. The Android Media Server process scans your entire SD card for media (including music) except for folders with a ".nomedia" file in them. It will use the tags to identify the artist, song, and album, then sort them based on that information.
Flame Red said:
Wanted to report back that I tried a simple case of using Directory Bind for something non-critical as a test. Used it to remount Titaniumn Backup to the external SD. Yes, I know you can just point it there. Just wanted to test Directory Bind.
It seemed to work until I rebooted the phone. Then it lost all the binding even tough I had checked off to save it for reboot and saved the binds to a file. So just beware that if you were using Directory Bind for something critical - you might have to recover the phone! I removed the package for now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bummer

don't bother moving any apps to the external sd, since you have TONS OF ROOM in your internal memory on this phone..On the original note, I had over 300 apps installed on the internal, and still had over 5 gigs of room left..
just keep your music, movies, pictures, and other space hogs on it..trust me, leaving apps alone will never be a problem when you have a phone with this much storage space!

wase4711 said:
don't bother moving any apps to the external sd, since you have TONS OF ROOM in your internal memory on this phone..On the original note, I had over 300 apps installed on the internal, and still had over 5 gigs of room left..
just keep your music, movies, pictures, and other space hogs on it..trust me, leaving apps alone will never be a problem when you have a phone with this much storage space!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
11GB is a lot (available to start with on the ATT model) if you use the external for media (and app cache) and leave the internal for apps mainly...agreed.
Most apps are small in size...however, one app like NOVA3 is 2GB and that is a big bite of your 11GB available, so that is a little concerning
I haven't had the device or android long enough to know, but, are app databases and cache allowed to reside on the external card --in lue of the ability to move apps to the SD being taken away since Jelly Bean (was it at that update)? Can someone point to a good thread on the reason and discussion about that? Thanks.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1994046
App2SD change external to internal.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using xda premium
You can make your external your main storage device by using this root technique. But some people don't advise it saying it slows down your processing on apps.

wase4711 said:
don't bother moving any apps to the external sd, since you have TONS OF ROOM in your internal memory on this phone..On the original note, I had over 300 apps installed on the internal, and still had over 5 gigs of room left..
just keep your music, movies, pictures, and other space hogs on it..trust me, leaving apps alone will never be a problem when you have a phone with this much storage space!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Note II is a Unified Storage device. It has 11gb available for both user content (pictures, movie, music etc) and apps. I lost 2gb of space moving from my S2 to the N2.
S2 is not a Unified storage device, so it has 11gb of storage available for user content and a separate Apps partition of 2gb.

Partition Sizes

Curious if anyone has modified the partition table on the device? With the System taking up 4 some gigs... seems silly not to shrink it down a bit for more app usage. Any thoughts on this one or am I just thinking silly on it?

I think the same but i found nothing. I flashed a debloated rom for the 10.1 and now have 1.2GB free on system parts. I used titanium backup to transfer some app from data to system but it's boring. But it's nothing compared to my MicroSD card memory

eowindel said:
I think the same but i found nothing. I flashed a debloated rom for the 10.1 and now have 1.2GB free on system parts. I used titanium backup to transfer some app from data to system but it's boring. But it's nothing compared to my MicroSD card memory
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did transfer some apps over as well, or in reality can remove them because they sit on the SD partition because of updates (really wish it would just update to system by default). I know moving some updates over just screws it up, let alone just moving screws up the icons on the desktop portion.
I don't have a de-bloated rom right now. The way I see it, its being used or wasted at this point. Apps don't seem to be slowing it down, though im sure a few are running in the background, but nothing that has hampered battery life like my previous Nexus 7 (2013). This seems to do much better at not wasting power. Guess im not being as picky as I use to with random apps chewing up space.
I would of jumped all over a 32GB edition from the get go. Paired with a 64GB SD card, its win win. Even now it is, just can't install everything I want to in 1 go since most apps still are stored locally on the main internal SD Partition and can't be transferred over. I can live with it, and im sure someone will figure it out. I know I use to do it with an old phone that had, next to no internal memory (a loong time ago). PITA to update, but well worth being able to use the phone.

You can use FolderMount [ROOT] to create a symbolic link between internal SD card and external to move your application.
For example if you want your google offline music on sdcard you can mount /sdcard/android/data/com.google.android.music on external sdcard.
It is possible to do it for every folder so it solves the problem :highfive:

eowindel said:
You can use FolderMount [ROOT] to create a symbolic link between internal SD card and external to move your application.
For example if you want your google offline music on sdcard you can mount /sdcard/android/data/com.google.android.music on external sdcard.
It is possible to do it for every folder so it solves the problem :highfive:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah just read into that. Thanks for the link so it reminds me.
Course, internal storage is always faster But for music/movies obviously SD Card just works fine with that.