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Hi,
I've just purchased a couple of cheap batteries off ebay and just wondered what was the best way of using them and charging them?
I've just recently calibrated the battery on the Z the other day (and now been getting upto 22 hours on a single charge! Yay!) and wondered do I need to do the same for the batteries I just bought as they come with their own charger.
I just want to get the best out of the phone and batteries so wanted to know what's the best thing to do.
Thanks in advance,
Jason
I would run them flat (keep phone on until it dies, turn it back on, let it die, turn it on, let it die, turn it on...... until it boots no more) before charging fully/overnight.
Batteries aren't calibrated, the battery meter on the phone is calibrated (basically, so the volt meter on the phone knows what voltages correspond to "full" battery and "empty"). Li ion batteries don't need to be conditioned like the old NiCad type. Really, you don't need to do anything. Li ion batteries should be stored with about 40% charge according to the link below. They should have shipped with some charge, and hold the charge pretty well. Just check them once in a while if stored for a long time.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
wileykat said:
I would run them flat (keep phone on until it dies, turn it back on, let it die, turn it on, let it die, turn it on...... until it boots no more) before charging fully/overnight.
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No! Do not run the batteries until empty. Running a Li ion battery empty can possibly cause it to no longer take a charge. Try not to discharge below 20%. See the link below. The proper way to calibrate the battery meter is charge to full, drain to about 20%, repeat a couple times.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/do_and_dont_battery_table
And as I've already mentioned in my previous reply, charge/drain cycles on the battery does nothing does nothing to the battery itself. Li ion batteries don't need to be (and can't be) conditioned. Charge/drain cycles only calibrate the battery meter on the phone (possibly incorrectly, if you are just going to then store that battery). So you are just wasting your time.
Also, you shouldn't store the batteries fully charged.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Really?....
Links added to 'to do' list for later. Thank you pal. I really should research before taking peoples word as gospel.
Nice one.
What I've done is counter to what people always say about Lithium Ion batteries but I've had good success so I figured I'd share.
I have two batteries, one always lives in the phone and the other lives in an external charger (these can be had for as little as $5 on eBay).
Every morning I look at the phone and if the charge is <50% I pop the other battery off the charger and put it in my pocket. When the phones battery dies (may not be that day) I just swap the battery and when I get home I put the dead one on the external charger.
Periodically if I'm not in a hurry, I will even go so far as to power the phone on in recovery mode after the battery has died, it will run for a bit longer in recovery (sometimes as long as an hour) sucking a little bit more juice out of it.
I routinely get more than 2 days out of a battery charge.
I don't doubt that my method reduces the overall lifespan of my batteries but charge time is more important to me than battery lifetime and I end up picking up a new battery every 6 months ago and taking my oldest one out of service.
wileykat said:
Really?....
Links added to 'to do' list for later. Thank you pal. I really should research before taking peoples word as gospel.
Nice one.
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No problem. I used to think the same, about draining the battery until the phone died, then charging to full, to calibrate the battery meter. Until Jackos over in the Rhodium forum informed me otherwise. I've also read pretty occasional posts over there (and likely other phones) by various users that discharged their battery too low, and then couldn't start their phones or charge the battery. Every phone is different, and I think a user on here said the Vision has better safety measures to prevent this. But best to play it safe. There is really no benefit to intentionally draining your battery to 0% versus 20%. Your battery meter will still be plenty accurate enough.
Ah ok thanks guys a lot of useful info here.
So to sum up:
- I can charge the batteries normally on the phone without need for calibrating either phone or battery.
And one more question:
- Are there adverse affects from charging the official battery or ebay batteries on the external charger?
Loving the Desire Z at the moment, I think I'll have one spare battery on me when at work or commuting on public transport and one in the car.
Thanks again!
BiMU said:
- Are there adverse affects from charging the official battery or ebay batteries on the external charger?
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They both charge fine either on the external charger or in the phone but in general I've had better performance with OEM batteries than with the generics, I suspect that there is a wide range or quality among generic batteries where the OEMs are more consistent.
Right now I have one OEM and one Generic, despite the Generic having a higher MAh rating and being newer in general I get more time on a charge off the OEM battery.
You can check eBay for a good deal on OEM batteries, just be sure to read the item description carefully to make sure you are getting a real OEM battery as opposed to an "OEM-type".
BiMU said:
So to sum up:
- I can charge the batteries normally on the phone without need for calibrating either phone or battery.
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Click to collapse
If you are going to be swapping batteries frequently, then I would say that there is no point in calibrating the battery meter on the phone. Its never going to be completely correct if you keep swapping the battery. If you are going to use one battery for a long time, I'd say calibrate the battery meter. There is no such thing as calibrating the battery, so obviously no on that.
BiMU said:
And one more question:
- Are there adverse affects from charging the official battery or ebay batteries on the external charger?
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I'm not sure on this, so maybe others have a better answer. But I'd say as long as the voltage is the same, it wouldn't matter if you used the phone or an external charger to charge the batteries.
From what I've read, Li ion batteries have safety circuitry to prevent over-charge, so you don't need to worry about the charger having that.
Under mango or one of the firmware updates which had been updated recently , u will see yr battery saver is fluctuating , at one time saying u have a 1 day, while another time it says u only 2 hours on a reasonably fuller charge.
there is a problem with HTC original batteries, rather i will say a safety regulation after recent incidents with battery safety
yr htc only charges up to 85% level even though the phone indicator shows 100%
when u unplug it from the charger, it immediately drains and stays at 80%.
THis is likely why the HTC phones have a shorter battery life, whether its android or windowsphone 7
this is not a defective battery, its made intentionally by HTC for 2 reasons 1) safety , 2)battery longevity ,the safety mechanism built in stops charging it to 100%, thus overcharging, overcharging means the battery is out thru stress which may pose a hazard. if a battery is fully charged to true 100 % , it poses a hazard if one of the pins in the phone connectors break. apparently this pin tells the charger or the phone not to charge anymore once reaching 100%. there is a possibility that if this pin breaks, the phone will overcharge and pose a safety hazard. So this is why HTC batteries dont charge to true 100% and this particular pin is tweaked to full charge to only 80%
wheareas, mugen batteries ect do not have this safety regulation or charging limit although they are safe to use, so they seem to last 20% more than stock HTC battery because they fully charge to 100%.
Mugen or other reputed aftermarket batteries are more likely to wear out sooner than stock batteries unless depending on the quality of the battery..
in order to get yr HTC battery to full charge it u need to bump charge it.bump charging is a technique to fully charged the battery closer to its real capacity
to bump charge
1) fully charge the battery from 20% to 100% , as indicated by the phone OS
2) turn off the charger, turn on again, u will notice the phone charges again even though its 100% full for 1/2 a minute. wait for it to fully charge
3) repeat the above step 2) for 10 times
4)use a timer plug to simplify the process. Set the timer plug to on/off every minute for 10 times. u need to get a digital timer for this purpose with mutiple timer settings
Magpir said:
yr htc only charges up to 85% level even though the phone indicator shows 100%
when u unplug it from the charger, it immediately drains and stays at 80%.
THis is likely why the HTC phones have a shorter battery life, whether its android or windowsphone 7
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Interesting. I noticed this with my HTC Mozart; battery indiactor drops one bar (to 80-85%) as soon as I take it off charge. Always assumed it was a WP7 thing - like it was drawing a lot of current.
Where did you get this info from? Looks like I'll be ordering a new (non-HTC) battery asap!
If it's true i won't buy a plug timer but a new battery, not from HTC...at least i hope it's true caus my battery capacity sucks and that gives me hopes, enjoying my hd7 more than a half day without plugging it (when it's possible)...so nuff thanks for the tip.
Sent from my HD7 T9292 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Funny, I have always done this with every device (maybe not the x 10 repeat!). never knoew that was the reason though thanks!!
not only HTC, there are couple of other devices like samsung galaxy ect
now u know why they claim mugen and other aftermarket batteries last longer...
mugen 1500 mah battery with the same size as the stock 1230 mah batt>
thats bull..because a 1500 mah battery looks much bigger ... the samsung omnia 7 has a 1500 mah battery and its 30% larger than than the HD7 battery....
Aphasaic2002 said:
Interesting. I noticed this with my HTC Mozart; battery indiactor drops one bar (to 80-85%) as soon as I take it off charge. Always assumed it was a WP7 thing - like it was drawing a lot of current.
Where did you get this info from? Looks like I'll be ordering a new (non-HTC) battery asap!
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thats because the battery stops charging once it reaches 85%
u may have heard of the HTC bump charging technique. thats what this si all about , but u need to do it everyday, so get a timer plug and leave it to do its job overnight everyday
the best is to use a digital programmable timer plug .
Ok, had a google and looks like your post is only partially true:
http://phandroid.com/2010/12/25/you...is-lying-to-you-and-its-not-such-a-bad-thing/
Appears it's an issue with all smartphones, not just HTC! Also bump-charging will dramatically reduce battery life.
As someone in the comments says; why can't the phone just stop charging and switch to running wall power once battery gets to 100%, same as laptops? I assume this is what Apple do, as the iPhone doesn't suffer from the same issue.
Interesting because I have no problems with my battery doing that running Mango beta 7712 on my HTC 7 Pro.
The moment I take my battery off once it turns green, it stays at 100% for hours if there's absolutely no activity on it.
I think it's how far you guys are draining your batteries. Ever since I've gotten my phone, only twice did I push the battery lower than 15% charge; once on accident and another to recalibrate it. After that, I never pushed it lower than 15% and made sure to only recharge it after at least a good 20% of usage (days i feared i wouldn't be near a charger and needed full charge).
Granted, I'll add that it maybe be because I swap the battery out every other night with a spare, and if I do so I make sure there's between 50-58% charge left.
No bump charging either.
ScottSUmmers said:
Interesting because I have no problems with my battery doing that running Mango beta 7712 on my HTC 7 Pro.
The moment I take my battery off once it turns green, it stays at 100% for hours if there's absolutely no activity on it.
I think it's how far you guys are draining your batteries. Ever since I've gotten my phone, only twice did I push the battery lower than 15% charge; once on accident and another to recalibrate it. After that, I never pushed it lower than 15% and made sure to only recharge it after at least a good 20% of usage (days i feared i wouldn't be near a charger and needed full charge).
Granted, I'll add that it maybe be because I swap the battery out every other night with a spare, and if I do so I make sure there's between 50-58% charge left.
No bump charging either.
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yes its better to maintain 20% charge .
If u noticed the iPhone batteries wear out faster.
About year or so.
Just to confirm I have used the timer plug technique twice the last 2 days .
This is what I have
30% charge
8 hours since last charge
Moderate usage.
Somehow those who claim to use momax or mugen batteries claim to have the same results above .
the charge-controller is in the phone not the battery.
schranz01 said:
the charge-controller is in the phone not the battery.
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apparently it still the battery...
up for awareness.....
My HD7 doesn't do this. Tried several times even over a 5 minute span keeping the battery indicator in view. It never dropped to 80%.
---------- Post added at 08:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:54 AM ----------
Magpir said:
yes its better to maintain 20% charge .
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You should not let Li-ION batteries fully discharge, ever. It's good to keep it on a charger whenever you can, than keep it off a charger and let it fully discharge. That wears the battery out.
Also, there's no risk in overcharging the battery because almost all decent phones will stop charging when the battery is full. They know when to stop charging, just like they know when to alert you that the battery is fully-charged (via a notification and/or changing the LED Notification light color).
You actually can overcharge it by exposing a fully charged battery to higher temperatures - putting the phone in direct sunlight or setting it in a car holder in the way of hot air from the heater deflector while using Satnav, for example. In order to avoid these conditions, controllers do prevent batteries from 100% charge. That being said, I don't think there's a standard for marking battery capacity, and an honest manufacturer should put real effective battery assembly capacity accounting for those limitations, not the sum of capacities of included cells. Don't think they do it really.
vangrieg said:
You actually can overcharge it by exposing a fully charged battery to higher temperatures - putting the phone in direct sunlight or setting it in a car holder in the way of hot air from the heater deflector while using Satnav, for example. In order to avoid these conditions, controllers do prevent batteries from 100% charge. That being said, I don't think there's a standard for marking battery capacity, and an honest manufacturer should put real effective battery assembly capacity accounting for those limitations, not the sum of capacities of included cells. Don't think they do it really.
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Yea, its like computer hard drives and flash cards....Formated they never will be the size your quoted or paid for.
I wish there was standards for this and it's only sold on the actuall usable space or time.
N8ter said:
Also, there's no risk in overcharging the battery because almost all decent phones will stop charging when the battery is full. They know when to stop charging, just like they know when to alert you that the battery is fully-charged (via a notification and/or changing the LED Notification light color).
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It's actually still not good to leave li-ion batteries plugged in when they are fully charged and stopped charging. They will suffer from capacity loss that way as well. Not to mention any heat coming off the device.
Update: i did not bump charge today..
and the old symptom returned again.. draining fast
I tether with my phone all day and I have to keep it connected because it drains the battery quick. Will it have any negative effects on the battery if I leave it connected even if its at 100%?
whytechapel_x said:
I tether with my phone all day and I have to keep it connected because it drains the battery quick. Will it have any negative effects on the battery if I leave it connected even if its at 100%?
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I do the same and haven't had any ill effects, phone stays on charge at work all day
I believe the charger (and most, if not all, smartphone chargers) intentionally cuts out when the battery is saturated to prevent overcharging. Then top off again once the battery level drops a bit. In fact, on some devices (when attached to charger and fully charged) you will actually see the battery level occasionally drop to 99 or 98% then back up to 100% again. Although I haven't noticed this on the M8 yet.
You can get into a discussion of mini-cycles and other ill effects from keeping the device plugged in all the time. But just anecdotally I do this all the time (just leave the phone on charger overnight most nights) and haven't noticed much (if any) ill effect on battery life after owning 5 HTC devices, plus 2 Samsung tablets; most of which were used 1- 2 years each with very little if any decline in battery life over the time they were used.
Actually leaving the battery at full capacity all the time (if I understood your post) is bad for the long term health of the battery.
You need to find an app that cuts your charger off at 70-80%. Most modern laptops have this functionality built in for people that leave it plugged in all the time.
Heisenberg420 said:
Actually leaving the battery at full capacity all the time (if I understood your post) is bad for the long term health of the battery.
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Technically, I would agree. And "best practice" is to cycle often and avoid leaving the phone on the charger when fully charged. But often folks (myself included) will not always follow what is best, and its not always feasible. As I've mentioned, after owning a decent number of smartphone and tablet devices and using then for 1-2 years, I haven't noticed much or any decline in battery life for the time I was using them (despite often charging them overnight). I have no doubt there might be some slight decrease, and especially of one intends to use the device for more than 2 years. But I personally never do (too much of a gear junkie) and also don't sell/trade my old phones.
Your point is a fair one, as it best the OP to know all the facts, risks, etc. and make his own conclusion. The following link has some interesting technical discussion on charging Li ion: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
I bought an ampere-meter that measures current from the charge to the device and I have awesome news.
Li poly batteries have a very strict charging procedure (voltage and current should change during the charge). The original HTC charge charges flawlessly.
Once the battery tops up to 100% current drops dramatically.
If I do some power demanding task, the current goes up again. This means that all power consumption is taken from the charger, leaving the battery in 100% all the time, without jittering between 99-100%
NOTE:
Yet. The designers of the Li Poly define it as an electrical spring. This means there is no deterioration in the battery life AS LONG AS YOU DON'T CHARGE THE BATTERY OVER 4 volts.
100% is 4.2 volts, meaning you'd stop charging at 85% to prolong battery life.
Not sure what's going on here, but I've had my phone on for 45 minutes after a complete charge, and it's already down to 90% with only sending a few texts messages, and no other apps. I've noticed that in the past two weeks or so, the battery life is diminishing, but markedly in the first 10% drop from 100 to 90. Any idea what's going on? I have disabled most "troubling apps" that were pre-installed, and even use greenify. The main culprits according to my battery stats are only Android System and the Screen (which I barely even used in those 45 minutes). Is my battery defective and failing quickly?
Bueller...
There were several studies on the effect of leaving a charger in after it hits 100.
Apparently lithium ion batteries do not like to be fully charged .
Their optimum range for operation is between 40%-80% but it's obvious that we can't keep it on that range with ease.
The reason is that when you charge a battery to full it does not like to be forced to take up a higher charge, but even though the circuit completes itself it has no choice to.
So when it's at 100% it will naturally try to get rid of that extremely high charge.
MiuKing said:
There were several studies on the effect of leaving a charger in after it hits 100.
Apparently lithium ion batteries do not like to be fully charged .
Their optimum range for operation is between 40%-80% but it's obvious that we can't keep it on that range with ease.
The reason is that when you charge a battery to full it does not like to be forced to take up a higher charge, but even though the circuit completes itself it has no choice to.
So when it's at 100% it will naturally try to get rid of that extremely high charge.
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this is bs
oneandroidnut said:
this is bs
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You mad?
MiuKing said:
You mad?
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not at all i know that isnt true. lot of battery myths out there
oneandroidnut said:
not at all i know that isnt true. lot of battery myths out there
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So if this is merely a myth, does that mean my battery is slightly defective?
theRZA001 said:
So if this is merely a myth, does that mean my battery is slightly defective?
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Not at all. give it some time it will be fine. i have 3 different batteries for my note and i can tell a difference in all of them. the best one is the one i have used the most so far
oneandroidnut said:
not at all i know that isnt true. lot of battery myths out there
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Well, the Samsung laptops have a function where it'll stop charging at 80% so you can't fully charge to 100%. That really isn't a myth. Overcharging and charging often is bad for the battery, the real question is by how much.
kimdoocheol said:
Well, the Samsung laptops have a function where it'll stop charging at 80% so you can't fully charge to 100%. That really isn't a myth. Overcharging and charging often is bad for the battery, the real question is by how much.
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that isnt true. batteries have built in to slow the charge once it reaches a point but it continues to charge but slower. no battery now a days can "overcharge" they all have safety in them now
oneandroidnut said:
that isnt true. batteries have built in to slow the charge once it reaches a point but it continues to charge but slower. no battery now a days can "overcharge" they all have safety in them now
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Sorry, I should have been more specific. Lithium ion batteries can overheat. When it gets to 100% and the smart charge constantly charges and stops charging it can overheat the phone.
Batteries in general have a limited amount of charge.
Breathing oxygen is bad for us too, so who really cares. Haha. It happens with all devices, though.
kimdoocheol said:
Sorry, I should have been more specific. Lithium ion batteries can overheat. When it gets to 100% and the smart charge constantly charges and stops charging it can overheat the phone.
Batteries in general have a limited amount of charge.
Breathing oxygen is bad for us too, so who really cares. Haha. It happens with all devices, though.
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This.
I mean especially with lithium ion batteries. I probably should have been more specific there.
Lithium ion's technology has more or less been the same in the past few decades. It doesn't like to be topped off at 100%. Period.
If you know anything about electrical engineering you know that as long as the charger is plugged into a phone with a battery in it it will complete a series of circuits and will be forced to supply power to the battery .
The battery supplies all of the power to the phone so the charger can't bypass this.
Essentially what happens is that the charger will trickle charge the battery when it drops from 100% to 99% and keep it there as long as its plugged in.
You have to pull the plug around 90% if you want to prevent your battery from crapping out.
oneandroidnut I suggest you go out and put your pseudoscience mentality back in the coffin and go and do some research before making some finger pointing claims about "bull****"
Hello.. this might sound alittle bit old question or maybe repeated alot but i couldn't find the answer at the internet..
i held two samsung galaxy note 1 and 4, and i noticed when the battery fully charged i can't see that charging mark on the battery.. WHAT DOES THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN?
does that mean the system stopped charging the battery and it won't affect on its lifespan? or it is overcharging?
i noticed in Sony Z3 there is option for night charging which is when the battery is full it will automatically disconnect the charging, is that thing the same in samsung but without any option or it can damage the battery because it keep charging??
i hope i can get the answer....
thank you
With the stock charger, or any decent 3rd party charger, it will stop charging when the battery is full and begin again when needed.
It goes off full charge and goes into trickle charge. The phone won't turn off the charger when it's full.
nacron said:
It goes off full charge and goes into trickle charge. The phone won't turn off the charger when it's full.
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Ive always wondered about the trikle charge effect on phones as well as laptops. So wouldnt that damage the battery overtime? Continually discharging a tiny bit and recharging over and over again?
I wish there was a definitive answer to this any many other perpetual questions regarding the current crop of Li-ion batteries..
It's supposedly less damaging to top of a lithium ion battery than to fully discharge and charge.
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/five-apps/five-tips-for-extending-lithium-ion-battery-life/