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Coding wars: iOS vs Android vs Windows Phone 7
Just saw this one getting RT on twitter. we need more discussions here. so i brought it over to see what you all thinks.
The gist of the competition is that the Windows Phone 7 trounced everyone. Whereas the iOS and Android groups had created one page of the app, the WP7 team created "...a mostly working application with most features implemented". In addition, the Androiders had problems with Compiz (a Linux window manager), which kept crashing.
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sadoway said:
Coding wars: iOS vs Android vs Windows Phone 7
Just saw this one getting RT on twitter. we need more discussions here. so i brought it over to see what you all thinks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know why, but that set me in fits of laughter XD
Back when the WP7 SDK was still in beta Microsoft held a competition to see who could write the best app. The person who won wrote a streaming music application that he spent less than a day coding on with no prior WP7 experience. He said the same app with a few more features on it took him over 2 weeks to develop on android.
From everything I've been reading. I actually think wp7 sounds like a good platform for beginners. I used to do some coding in highschool. Nothing to advanced, but forgot most everything except maybe logical thinking. Just need a few days to research some resources. Been on xda for a couple years. Might be time to become a contributed
Sent from my LG Optimus 7
I'd prefer World War 3 being a Coding war. quick and painless.
To bad the wp7 user base can't be considered a nation yet.
WP7's design/api is very good for consuming data, this is why the majority of apps are just "lists of something", however it's not good at anything else...
id have to argue that. ive had mine for a week. sure some of the apps are super simple "lists"
but there are a handfull of other apps that the UI is not even close to metro and completely custom. and there are a bunch of games already that are more than simple puzzle games, doodle. like the iphone. im personally really bored with puzzle games, bejewled exluded because i love that game.
it really is a matter of developers making the software. its coming. i had android when it first came out. and aside from the apps that came from the google contest. if was ****. and honestly. most of the apps on android are **** still. so much spam apps. like 200 are just flags. they have so many repative apps that just have maybe one tiny thing changed. where all of those 200 flag apps. could be 1. its an imflated app system. demo and full apps. microsoft was smart where these demo and full apps are typicaly concidered 1 app.
who cares about how many apps each OS has. android is mega inflated and not at all realistic. microsft WILL have a "smaller" number. simoply because demo and full apps are the same.
honestly. how many apps do u scroll thru till you find one you download? 3? 11? 157?
WP7 barely has ANY apps yet. so of course the first ones out of the gate are going to be simple lists. give it 3 months at least. there will be ports of everyones favourits from other platforms. and probably a few new ones that people will drool over wp7.
not a fan with the quick judgments on this platform. i follow my phone closely, the trends, yeah microsoft does have alot of work ahead of them. but it has to start somewhere.
nobody knew about android when it came out. Microsoft does have a larger base. they just need to win everyone back. and IMO it wont be that hard once you use the platform for a couple hours.
I have pc/mac/android/iphone/ipad/WP7
each have there advantages. and not even close to the end of the game for WP7. they really are just getting warmed up.
sorry. went on a rant
though i agree with sadoway, this is also evident in windows phone marketplace (as is iTunes). You can't really get around it unless they really do enforce it's use. Though in some cases I wish they did. I saw like 20 apps a few days ago all from the same company, with the same logo, just different title. I didn't even bother to see what it was, but yea, it's existant in windows phone as well.
im just happy to see that at least the "trial" button. it makes market a bit user friendly. it will cut down on the amount of apps they say they have... (for the people who actualy care but dont know what it means) imo its just a number
its like saying u have 6gb or ram on a winxp computer. most of it is useless anyways, it just sounds impressive when its not.
Once you're doing something else than hammering simple data into lists, it'll show whether you can code your way out of a wet paper bag or not.
Certain limitations in .NET like lack of union structures or pointers (pinning objects will automatically fail certification, due to unsafe code) requires people to get creative to squeeze performance out of algorithms.
Is it just me that's noticing this? Nowadays most of the new apps are just terrible. For example "IM Buddy", I can't fathom how this piece of shift passed certification. It's mind boggling.
If you think that's bad, just look at 90% of the iPhone's app store! This is why quantity doesn't trump quality.
iPhone and Android users keep quoting the NUMBER of apps in their stores as being somehow the best indicator of how a store is doing, but in the end a store with 4,000 top quality apps is far better than a store with 300,000 rotten eggs.
I mean, does the music business tout how many records they have? Is Sony BMG better than EMI because they've put out more music? Of course not. It's all down to the quality of the artists.
Same with apps.
All app stores will end up with some dross. I pray the WP7 store will end up with less of it. All the dross does it make the cream harder to find.
This is the problem now that MS has where they are being judged by quantity when it comes to apps more than quality so they will put stuff through that they otherwise would not had the media let up on the bashing. Though its worth noting that android has a lot worse and is flooded with pure rubbish.
Glad I'm not the only one that thinks the marketplace is full of mostly crap-ware. Other than games, I haven't bought a single thing from the marketplace. The majority of the apps on there regurgitate stuff you could find by doing a simple goobing search. Most of the decent stuff is freeware anyway, like YouTube, Facebook, IMDB, Adobe Reader.
And how many tip-calculators are there!! Do people really calculate their tips based on how much they paid, how many people there are and what percentage tip they want to leave?? You could just calculate how much your meal was and then round the figure off like every other completely sane person.
Solutions looking for problems if you ask me.
masadav said:
And how many tip-calculators are there!! Do people really calculate their tips based on how much they paid, how many people there are and what percentage tip they want to leave?? You could just calculate how much your meal was and then round the figure off like every other completely sane person.
Solutions looking for problems if you ask me.
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ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
sometimes it's really difficult to calculate a 10% tip.. i have 5 tip calculators just in case one of them messes up.
I'm hoping that once a month or something, they get their interns over there at MS to go through the apps and delete the crap/ duplicate apps and notify the developer that they need to up their game.
Do we really need 8 different live-book apps from the same guy, one of which is about a bridge they put up near him?
pillsburydoughman said:
Is it just me that's noticing this? Nowadays most of the new apps are just terrible. For example "IM Buddy", I can't fathom how this piece of shift passed certification. It's mind boggling.
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I don't think it's any worse than it's been from the start. It's always a lot of crap and some good stuff. I can't agree with the guy who said he'd never purchase anything that's not a game. I've purchased Pictures Labs, Stocks Tile, Cocktail Flow, iKamasutra, Personal Shopping Assistant, Word Explorer Dictionary, and I'll give the $3 to Seymour whenever the trial asks me to. I have another 20 or so free apps installed that are pretty good, too.
i don't think we should be worried about what apps go in. what really needs to happen is that the market place itself needs a bit of a revamp in terms of functionality. Possible things that could be put in which would easily make the market place stand up above all rivals are... an advanced search for it, change logs, friends using app, trial/buy ratio, most downloaded/purchased in last day/week/month, feature requests (with rating for request), dev interactions (someway that the dev can get feedback on a particular feature), app beta testing (e.g. one of us makes an app, and we want just the xda community to beta test it before we ship it out for the masses).
all of these are just little ideas that could easily improve the market, help devs bring better products, and ultimately separate the crapware from the awesomeware.
Where I have spent $$$ on apps..
Games: Many - mostly XBL but a couple not XBL worth buying (try a game called Decent... it's really great looking and fun)
Apps: YomoMedia - it's a good RSS feeder and reader... Converter Pro... very cool app for converting everything including currency. Thumba 2 - best image editor on WP7... bar-none. Morfo - because it's retarded and fun. Metro Web Browser - it's cool but it was kind of a waste - it does add some novel features to browsing but not having it integrated is kinda well... worthless. Collage - another great picture app. Picture Frame - another good one for displaying pictures. Picture Labs... not as good as Thumba. Presenter - cool way to control my powerpoints alas not the best solution without Bluetooth however!
Let's think for a minute. The iPhone App Store is filled largely with...garbage apps. Same with Android Market (perhaps more so). What made you guys think that Windows Marketplace wasn't going to suffer the same fate?
wish they would let US, the community, screen the apps i.e. which gets approved or which gets trashed. just wishful thinking
hboos said:
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
sometimes it's really difficult to calculate a 10% tip.. i have 5 tip calculators just in case one of them messes up.
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Only if u had a 3rs grade education.
Just move the decimal one place to the left... It's not hard and involves really no math skills.
I can't believe you posted this crap...
Tip calculators are useless.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
N8ter said:
Only if u had a 3rs grade education.
Just move the decimal one place to the left... It's not hard and involves really no math skills.
I can't believe you posted this crap...
Tip calculators are useless.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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Hehehe, N8ter, I think he's just posting a sarcastic or joke about tip calculators
N8ter said:
Only if u had a 3rs grade education.
Just move the decimal one place to the left... It's not hard and involves really no math skills.
I can't believe you posted this crap...
Tip calculators are useless.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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thanks n8ter. i never knew you could do that. what if there is no decimal to move to the left? but if you move the decimal to the left and the left way is right and the right way is wrong what is left is just the wrong way through the centre and it all becomes mind bottling...
i know it's sometimes difficult to sense sarcasm but you'd think that common sense would factor in somewhere..
but seriously...
there are lots of useless apps in any marketplace but you need that base of useless apps which draws in more users (just because of publicized numbers of apps) and this in turn will attract more developers.
so i welcome all these useless/junk apps.. i won't be using them but they are good for inflating the number of apps in WP7
There was nothing in that post to indicate sarcasm. No emoticon or anything. If you were being sarcastic, you failed at indicating it.
If you actually read this forum, you'll notice that lots of people say lots of things you may think is sarcastic, but they actually mean it.
N8ter said:
There was nothing in that post to indicate sarcasm. No emoticon or anything. If you were being sarcastic, you failed at indicating it.
If you actually read this forum, you'll notice that lots of people say lots of things you may think is sarcastic, but they actually mean it.
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I clocked it as sarcasm but you're from the USA aren't you? I think Americans don't get or use sarcasm as much as we do in the UK. Or something.
But anyway, yeah it was definitely sarcasm.
sometimes it's really difficult to calculate a 10% tip.. i have 5 tip calculators just in case one of them messes up.
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that line screams sarcasm imo..
Agreed. That was a very successful troll.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Well, I'm going to add three QUALITY apps to the Norwegian market as soon as it opens. Might even have to release them as free apps on the american/english markets until the Norwegian one opens, as licenses are bound to the country you buy it from. So...if I sell through foreign market, users will lose their license when they move to the domestic one :S
Crap apps are easy to make
Good apps take time
This is why there were good apps at launch, but now you see more crap. Give it another month or so, and the tides will turn. Keeping the Zune market from being plagued like the Ios store and Android store, that will be hard to do.
So here we are - Windows Phone 7 has been around for a (short) while now, and the amount of apps has grown to a significant level. Obviously the marketplace isn't as extensive as on iOS or Android just yet, but we're getting there.
Now what I'm wondering is, what do you think about the current state of the market?
Do you think there are enough free apps? Or aren't they that important, because of the trials available?
And do you think that the general quality of the apps is higher than on other platforms, or not? And so on.
I'm really interested in your experiences so far, and I think many others are too.
So please, describe how you feel about the apps on this new platform!
I'm personally very satisfied based on what's available to the developers. It would be unfair to judge them based on factors that are out of their control... But as far as what the API allows, I'm pleased, especially in the games department. I would like better alarm applications and more live tiles, but all of that will come in due time. The trial ability is the best part of the whole marketplace experience.
I don't like the feel of the Market place. I went from and HD2 to an HD7. I use the phone for both work and play. I do a lot of both. As far as apps for work it is really amazing. What ever it is i want to do i can find an app that works well and improve my productivity. As far as apps for play not so much. the I.M. software is weak. I do love the Pro Football Weekly app. I definitely feel there is a lot of room for improvement.
Ive foud the wp7 market to be much better than the android market but obviously not up to par with iOS. There is of course a bunch of garbage in all 3 but i dont feel that wp7 has as much useless crap as android. I want to say i have no problem with android or iOS on a whole. Just stating my opinion on the markets.
as of right now I'd say the market is a mess, but I fully expect it to get better:
1. search is absurd: if I search for an app, I also get a list of songs, playlists, etc; rumored to be fixed in first update
2. live tile inconsistency: some work all the time, so won't work at all, some stop working for weeks; I assume this is a developer-driven problem and will get better over time, though i'm a bit concerned with the 15 live tile limit, as i'm already over the limit
3. trials: very happy with this feature, I have tried and purchased many apps I never would have looked at if they were 1.99 with no trial
4. quality: hit and miss, as with android and iOS markets; I suspect the developers are a bit hamstrung with some of the limitations of wp7 at the moment
5. stability: app store crashes, lockups, etc are a bit frustrating, but again I assume that will be fixed in an upcoming update
(keep in mind, I'm not a dev, these are the views of a consumer)
I like what is available now. Most of the apps I tried had very good quality with a very nice use of the Metro UI.
I hate that some apps are called "X for free", you know straightaway these are ports from another OS. Just give your app a damn name and put it in the Free section .
I also hate apps that are optimised for the US and don't work or crash constantly in Europe.
Overall it's progressing well, I'm hoping for quick must have apps like Amazon, Paypal, Live Messenger (Come one Microsoft, the iPhone has the best Messenger app around and you made it!) or TV Guide.
Also waiting for must have games we all know but with Live enabled (Words with Friends, Angry Birds, Cut the rope, Game devs story...).
By the summer it should be an important market, the updates just need to be up to par.
I think it sucks and it's terrible. The browser is very slow and either crashes, freezes or worse ends up rebooting the phone after a while. The browsing experience is the worst, I hardly browse anymore now.. because most of the time I end up waiting and waiting until I just leave before it crashes or locks up.
As far as applications, there still aren't any major hitters on the market yet apart from games, no decent instant messaging app really hurts, very few productivity apps compared to the blackberry and 90% of the time the new apps are a complete waste of time (made worse by the horrible market place browser).
There are some good apps there though but again the browser needs a update very badly.
There's no point having more vocal opinions about the Marketplace app, everyone knows it's broken, Microsoft included. We're just waiting for an update.
I only use the Zune client and Bing Visual Search to browse the apps now, I don't see why I would use the phone app when I know it's broken.
The OP is asking about the apps and games themselves and that's what we should comment on really.
I think its just decent Could be better, but what can u expect from 1.0!?
Im satisfied many bugs are getting fixed, and developers are busy. Would be more satisfied if MS made an offer on RIM, soo WP7 would get more media-attention/techinfo etc and grows bigger. More users --> More attractive for Developers. But Microsoft will have their reasons
Like now Appaloosa is cancelled because of the high cost vs expected return. If WP7 was bigger, developers can invest more because of a higher expected return. Would be awesome
EDIT: Thread reopened and will be moved to the appropriate section.
(It is nice to see someone pay attention and ask politely.)
~~Tito~~
Peew971 said:
There's no point having more vocal opinions about the Marketplace app, everyone knows it's broken, Microsoft included. We're just waiting for an update.
[snip]
The OP is asking about the apps and games themselves and that's what we should comment on really.
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Thanks, that is what interests me most.
I'm slightly surprised by the spread in positive and negative replies (and votes in the poll). It's roughly 50/50, with a slight advantage to the positive experiences.
This surprises me so much because the apps I've seen trough blogs like PocketNow, Engadget, Gizmodo and WMPoweruser looked pretty awesome, and I could only think of one thing I was missing: a mobile app called 'Reisplanner Xtra' for the trains in the Netherlands (currently available on WM, Android and iOS). This is a very specific app only useful to Dutch users, so I kinda blindly expected that most people could find what they need.
Also I'm somewhat shocked that there is no good Live Messenger app available on their own platform. Luckily, this is something we can be sure of that it's bound to improve. Maybe they're waiting for the right API's to be released
Jokes aside, which apps would you like to see more? I see people mentioning IM applications (among others) not only in this thread - but what else do you think is missing?
I said that I'm satisfied but it's nothing special.
Why I'm satisfied:
rapid growth - the selection is great considering how long it's existed
decent quality apps - overall, the apps look decent. I guess the standardized design language has made it easy
big name apps - a lot of the big names are on board already
XBOX LIVE is actually pretty cool. Even though you can't play in real time vs XBOX friends yet.
Why it's not special... yet:
Search is still messy - It needs search filters. Fortunately, it's one of the things being fixed in the first update.
app store size - while a somewhat unfair criticism, it still lacks much of a selection of high quality apps. But at this rate of growth, that criticism will go away in no time.
Still a few bugs - unable to update some apps in Trial mode. crashing back to main screen. etc..
I am satisfied for the most part and although it is not up to level with iOS (obviously, no operating system is up to iOS par and I don't expect that to change), the quality of the apps is really good. The search can be a little over the place, but I like how you can trial some apps. I have probably downloaded more apps on WP7 than Android.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/216954/groupon_discount_doesnt_bode_well_for_windows_phone_7.html
Not selling well?
Isnt that usual marketing?
In Germany they are doing pretty much marketing. MS is touring through many universities presenting shows of a known comedian and of course advertising wp7 really big.
Sent from my HTC Mozart using Board Express
As posted at L337Ware
I'm not some kind of communist hippie but I have to admit it's nice to get a high quality free application that isn't marred by Ads every once in a while. I've noticed a trend of sorts lately that alot of applications I originally downloaded aren't offered for free anymore or now have Ads plastered about them. In a matter of fact I probably need to consider how I'm going to update some of the reviews already on this site.
This leads me to wonder why? Is this a sign of things to come? We are already being charged a premium for XBox Live games in comparison to the titles on other platforms even in the light of some missing features. I've kind of attributed that to supply and demand though and know the prices will drop as things become more competitive. Perhaps the initial offerings were a simple test of the waters? I've considered this as developers are still trying to get their footing on this new platform. Regardless it still kind of feels like a bit of a bait and switch to the end user.
That being said I understand the need to cash in because I know some of these applications took a considerable amount of time and effort on the developers part. Honestly I wish as much consideration was placed on developing new business models as producting new products in the mobile market. Creative uses of Geotagging, cameras, and perhaps even social networking could be used as opposed to damaging the user's experience.
Since I kind of dropped the gauntlet there I will cough up a few examples.
Geotagging - The user has to go to say a store in order to unlock an application. This would also work with a setup where a purchase has to be made if a code was offered on the receipt.
Cameras - Scan a bar code for this product using your phone to unlock application. This could even change from month to month as the app relocks.
Social Networking - Like this page on Facebook and keep it liked to keep app full featured or follow this entity on twitter to unlock app.
I'm not saying all of these ideas would be easy or even effective but the current models could definitely use some work. At the end of the day I don't really blame the developers as they are doing what they need to in order to justify their hard work. I believe the burden really falls on the creator of the platform to step up and separate themselves from the pack. In this case I hope Microsoft moves a bit faster than their competition.
L337Ware said:
I hope Microsoft moves a bit faster than their competition.
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I lol'd.....
Seriously though, I noticed on the app store the other day that there's a Lego game where you can unlock in game items by going to a shop and scanning the bar codes on actual Lego products so what your suggesting is probably already happening on a small scale, if not its right around the corner.
MS will probably catch up in 3-4 years ....... just kidding.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
Given the three alternatives you proposed, I'd take ads in the app over all of them. All of those would be far more annoying requirements than a minimal ad that I most likely won't respond to anyway. In those cases, I have to go out of my way to locate a product and allow someone else to be aware of my activity.
All things considered, I think I'd rather keep things as they are. Many of the ad-based apps I have now only display the ads on title, setup, and other ancillary screens, not during the main functions of the app. That seems like a reasonable approach.
I can see where you are coming from. Thing is I tend to get very annoyed when I accidentally click an ad while trying to use an application. Seriously I'm not really a professional in the field of digital marketing but if I can come up with alternatives that easily there definately has to be a better way.
L337Ware said:
I can see where you are coming from. Thing is I tend to get very annoyed when I accidentally click an ad while trying to use an application. Seriously I'm not really a professional in the field of digital marketing but if I can come up with alternatives that easily there definately has to be a better way.
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I've never accidentally clicked an ad in an app. Either you need to start using higher quality apps or finetune your motor skills
Sure, your alternatives are interesting, but how exactly would developers get paid using them? Take the FB/Twitter like/follow scenario for example - sure, you gain a bunch of followers but there's no money changing hands.
Scanning a barcode could work for branded apps, i.e. the app is commissioned by the manufacturers of the product in question. But apps like these are generally free anyway - unless we are talking e.g. Lego Games where this approach would be great (although, including a code INSIDE a box of Legos would be better in terms of revenue).
I really like the GeoTagging idea though, but again I'm not entirely sure how you, as a developer, would leverage this. You could do what Cocktail Flow has done and sell your app for $$$ but include an in-app code-redemption (or in this case, Location-based) system of sorts where the full app unlocks. It sort of limits your reach though as you will either have to contact retailers (or theme parks, coffee shops, etc etc) all across the globe to strike deals with them about kickbacks.
Generally speaking, using GeoLocation or Barcodes is pretty smart, but not for the average developer. Too much overhead in terms of administrating the scheme. For branded apps I definitely think we'll see more taking advantage of this to unlock "special" features or offers though.
As an interesting side-note, there are fairly huge discrepancies between countries in terms or trial-to-paid conversions and the like. The US seems to be very low on the list in buying apps at all whereas Australia is on top when comparing the same app, with an equal price. As a "desktop" ISV I've never come across this before (the US has always given very high trial-to-paid conversions for me) so there is something about the mobile sector that makes people vary about purchasing apps. Even comparing a $20 desktop app with a $1 mobile app the desktop app has higher sales. My take is that the app "bubble" is about to burst.
how dare the devs make money???
Research has shown that ad supported apps do better than paid apps. I would gladly pay for any app over an ad supported, but apparently I'm in the minority on that one.
Just ask the indie developer Elbert Perez, over 100k made on ad revenue...
ad free - the wonderful application that blocks ad related sites systen-wide. love it !
emigrating said:
I've never accidentally clicked an ad in an app. Either you need to start using higher quality apps or finetune your motor skills
Sure, your alternatives are interesting, but how exactly would developers get paid using them? Take the FB/Twitter like/follow scenario for example - sure, you gain a bunch of followers but there's no money changing hands.
Scanning a barcode could work for branded apps, i.e. the app is commissioned by the manufacturers of the product in question. But apps like these are generally free anyway - unless we are talking e.g. Lego Games where this approach would be great (although, including a code INSIDE a box of Legos would be better in terms of revenue).
I really like the GeoTagging idea though, but again I'm not entirely sure how you, as a developer, would leverage this. You could do what Cocktail Flow has done and sell your app for $$$ but include an in-app code-redemption (or in this case, Location-based) system of sorts where the full app unlocks. It sort of limits your reach though as you will either have to contact retailers (or theme parks, coffee shops, etc etc) all across the globe to strike deals with them about kickbacks.
Generally speaking, using GeoLocation or Barcodes is pretty smart, but not for the average developer. Too much overhead in terms of administrating the scheme. For branded apps I definitely think we'll see more taking advantage of this to unlock "special" features or offers though.
As an interesting side-note, there are fairly huge discrepancies between countries in terms or trial-to-paid conversions and the like. The US seems to be very low on the list in buying apps at all whereas Australia is on top when comparing the same app, with an equal price. As a "desktop" ISV I've never come across this before (the US has always given very high trial-to-paid conversions for me) so there is something about the mobile sector that makes people vary about purchasing apps. Even comparing a $20 desktop app with a $1 mobile app the desktop app has higher sales. My take is that the app "bubble" is about to burst.
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Way to be disingenuous...
Desktop apps are easier and better to use, and are usually worth the extra cash. Higher rez graphics, better graphics in general (even with Integrated cards) and generally of higher quality with better support IME.
But it's not hard to misclick an ad when apps seem to have them on the bottom on one screen and at the top of others, and some apps randomly change ad positioning.
It's part of the reason why I uninstalled AlphaJack. There aren't enough people on the platform to not have a ton of "dead" games in your list, and the Ads move from top to bottom on different screens. Also, Ads on the top of the screen in Metro are just terrible, and prone to misclicks because the gesture area is up there (to see your Wi-Fi status and Reception level)... Ads on the bottom are prone to misclicks because the menu and app control buttons are down there. Ads generally look pretty bad and do not fit within the GUI, either...
All those ideas are pretty terrible and with gas prices these days it costs more to go to the store to unlock an app than to just buy it. For me and where I'm located, I could probably buy 10 apps with the gas I wasted just to unlock one app...
How about they just give longer trial periods so that we don't have to buy basically every app on impulse. Very short time limited trials (i.e. Android's 15 minutes), and feature limited trials (many WP7 apps) do not give me incentive to buy anything.
Most functionality we need on a smartphone is trivial to obtain via stock apps, anyways, besides games.
Your options 1 and 2.. Have the user buy something else, or get close to a for-purchase product, to make the app free. Your option 3.. follow them on a social network, never give them any money.
Why not just skip a burger/beer/brownie and give the dev a couple of dollars for the app? I don't understand people.. they'll pay $10-$15 to sit in a movie theater for 2 hours but won't spend $2.99 to use an app everday forevermore. YOu said you respect their time and effort, do you really? Don't forget that they have to pay to be in the Marketplace.
Look, I'm a regular user too... I'm hesitant to spend on something when I don't know if it's good or if free alternatives will do it. That's why MS put trials in. Unfortunately MS wasn't smart enough to have a 3rd category between "paid" and "free" called "trial", so people just browse free apps and devs have to do ads to make money.
This still isn't a big deal. The app's free. The devs support their users for free. Maybe we should be telling Google etc to find a revolutionary new complicated business model and stop sticking ads in our web pages
MSdoes have trial apps.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Add suported model is also the easiest to gain money, no paperwork with ms. A few clicks and your good to go, plus you can serve a much larger crowd since a lot of people can only use free apps on wp7.
Even a big part of europe does not have the possibility to buy apps yet and you dont want to exclude your own countries people ( in my case), your friends and family.
Hi,
I am tired of my current WP7, its almost 4 months now and their has been no major development in the APP market scene.. everyone just release initial app and than forget about it with no updates and no improvements.. the Gaming market scene of Xbox is pretty much dead too with no new fun game, I had pretty bad experience with Sonic which is practically unplayable and other boring games which have started coming out recently.. it seems Xbox is releasing games just for the heck of it.. ex: geodefence and tentacles.. boring not worth paying which are like free in android market..
I am really getting inclined to give up my WP7 and switch to Android now and buy Galaxy S2.. its has some plus points and some minus points:
Plus:
I can expand my memory.
Looks better.
Its Smoled 'Plus'.
It might have better battery? I am not sure about this.
Established Android market.
Minus:
Its too big for my pocket.
No ZUNE Pass like service.
I have to give up my Achievements Score and I dont know if they have anything similar to this.
I have never used Android and have never seen one ever before.. its completely new to me and I dont even know where is the settings option, I dont know if I will like it after using WM6.5 and now WP7 for last 7 years. I have seen Iphone before and used it for like a week, but never spend even 20 secs with an Android phone.
With all the hype surround MANGO which I am waiting for, I dont think Microsoft will release any major update after that for a really long time.. If this MANGO dosent work and the APP and GAMES Marketplace dosent become more vibrant than it is right now.. than I am thinking this WP7 could just become a device for people could not afford phones like Iphone and GALAXY S2, like a second option, a second choice market, which I am scared of.. I want to own the best and not the second choice.. and right now it seems GALAXY S2 with its ANDROID thing is the best phone in market.
Hmm. Not sure if I quite get where you're coming from with the apps and games thing. Over the last month, a ton of apps, big names and small, have come to the platform. A ton more coming and updated post-Mango. I mean, the market will most likely hit 30k apps soon. I don't have, nor do I use, 30k apps on my phone, not to mention the 100k+ or 400k+ of android and iphone, respectively.
Also, I'm pretty sure that every installed app, or almost every installed app, on my phone has seen an update... several at that. So, I missed you on the "no updates and no improvements" part. Are there specific apps that YOU are missing, or need that you can't find in the windows marketplace?
Games-wise, well that's a matter of preference. Games you find boring, others may find greatly exciting. For example, one recent game which has come to the platform that I like is Arcane Tower Defense. It's a fantasy version of the classic tower defense genre with some twists.
I also like little games like Vanessa Saint-Pierre Delacroix and her Nightmare. But, after Mango there will be many games including multiplayer fighting games, RPGs, you name it, real time and turn-based.
As to the GS2. I haven't used it personally. I do know you can't get xbox live benefits like achievments, however. I'm sure somebody else here is more informed on the phone than I. I hear it's a killer phone, though. And, there may also be a WP7 version of the phone as well.
But, dig around a bit and check out the apps that have hit the marketplace in the last month or so as well as the games. I think you may be pleasantly surprised. Then again...
Purple11 said:
With all the hype surround MANGO which I am waiting for, I dont think Microsoft will release any major update after that for a really long time..
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They are on a yearly cycle for major updates, like pretty much everyone else.
I am finding it increasingly difficult to do business with this phone, its been so long and yet their is no decent Calendar App like Pocket Informant. The built in calendar app is very basic, I want to create recurring appointment on every first Tuesday of a month which was possible on PI8 but not here.
I miss Apps like SPB Diary which let me scroll my entire contacts and entire days appointments right from the front screen, and SPB Pocket Plus which basically was what Android is right now, a choice of multiple home screens with one app, thats what SPB Pocket Plus was.
I want Resco Audio Recorder which auto recorded all my incoming and outgoing calls, not because I want to spy but because if someone tells me large reference number on phone I dont have to tap and write at that moment, I could just say go ahead i am writing it down, and later I would just play back that call and note down what was that number.
I want the missing file explorer which is their present in android right now.
Metratrader 4 app for real time live trading execution in currency and stocks right from your phone, nothing like that exists in WP7, I know we have it for Iphone I dont know about android..
We say we have so many number of apps and things like that, but look at the top 10 PAID apps in each of the categories..
Business:
6 are language learning, 3 are business cards, 2 are time tracker and one to tie knots...
Tools and Productivity:
2 flashlights, 1 night clock, 1 air horn, 1, dog whistle, 1 that saves pic in pdf format and calls itself 'scanner' (very poor scanning my direct camera photo is better than their PDF it include handy scan app too), 2 remote desktop (10 USD each)..
Personal Finance:
7 budget software (all exactly same, just store your spending, nothing else, useless, nothing like SPB Finance), remaninf 4 are market watch apps which all just does the same thing which is stream rates of top 10 cos from yahoo or google.. , no decent wallet app like CODEwallet Pro where we could create nice cards from desktop and sync it to wallet on phone, no actual trading app.. nothing..
Sounds like Android is a better fit for you.
PG2G said:
Sounds like Android is a better fit for you.
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Yep. Agreed.
In this kind of needs and preferences better try Android. WP7 is not really meant for this type of usage. This is what I have found for myself and while WP7 started to be frustrating after few months, Android solved everything for me in every respect.
I also want to see Mango and keep my Optimus 7 however some things are still not in the pipeline, like file explorers, USB docs/email sync and some apps like Opera Mini... And I'm afraid there won't by alternatives for core apps of WP7 either.
I understand your points well. I would also suggest that
Android is the right choise.
Just another way to look at things i would like to mention is, maybe most of the things you miss is just ways you USED to work with your phone? What ever WP is, its a new way to interact with your phone. For a old WM user like me, it was very wierd in the start, and i felt naked. I got used to it thou and currently having a replacment Android phone, while my current device is in for service. And now i miss my WP. It's strange how you miss the cow's afterwards.
Im staying with WP.
Just some thoughts from another side.
um..
I was thinking the same thing about switching to android, but I wont abandon wp all together. I'll give it a good year to mature
We have omnia7 and galaxy s. Of course the galaxy s fits better to my hardcore needs because it has al lot more options and you have a lot of custom roms and so on. BUT sometimes I'm really jealous about Omnia 7 perfect materials. And android is never as perfect designed as wp7. Android and its tons of different launchers is looking like an evolution of symbian and iOS. WP7 is something fresh and easy. Its what a phone is ment to be: a very easy and fast (internet) communication device. Not an overfilled little laptop.
So it's your choice: easy to use and well designed Omnia7 or a powerful plastic (gaming-)device with childish looking interface.
By the way: mango is awesome!
The galaxy s II is one of the finest android phones available. If you're looking for a feature set more similar to the old windows mobile ( and it sounds like you are), then Android is truly your best option.
Microsoft doesn't want a "complicated" phone platform anymore. They want consumer-facing, easy to use, social media and entertainment oriented with the ability to handle corporate e-mail, calendar and document editing if you need it in a pinch.
I doubt we're going to see anything like file managers or similar anytime soon, if at all.
I owned a Galaxy s II before selling it to a friend who needed a new phone, and I would purchase the device again in a heartbeat if I decided I wanted to use android.
Andrmgic said:
I doubt we're going to see anything like file managers or similar anytime soon, if at all.
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Yeah I'm pretty sure we won't. Hell, even desktop operating systems may be moving away from file managers.
PG2G said:
Yeah I'm pretty sure we won't. Hell, even desktop operating systems may be moving away from file managers.
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Yeah maybe in 2050. You must be kidding. For any profi usage these are the basics.
I will give this phone a try till December, if nothing comes up in the APP scene better than what it is at present than I will switch to Android perm for good.. I am not the one who keeps two phones or keep migrating from one to another OS frequently.. I just choose the best and stay with it for a long time..
i desperately need a better calendar app for appointments.. this whole wide calendar tile is just a wasteful eye candy which i have come to realize.. auto call recording which i guess with the absence of file explorer will never come to wp7.. i want to make my phone a USB on the Go like thing, a pen drive... 16 GB of total storage is too small..
I dont know how microsoft thinks they make a 3 horse race with these features missing.. its basically a two horse race, racing in front and a 3rd horse limping behind to catch the bets by people made by error ...
Purple11 said:
I dont know how microsoft thinks they make a 3 horse race with these features missing.. its basically a two horse race, racing in front and a 3rd horse limping behind to catch the bets by people made by error ...
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You have very specific requirements that the average user doesn't care about. Recording phone calls without consent isn't even legal in many states.
PG2G said:
You have very specific requirements that the average user doesn't care about. Recording phone calls without consent isn't even legal in many states.
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Yep. Microsoft isn't gearing this phone toward the likes of the geeks and tech nerds that frequent this forum. The average user makes up the majority of users, thus the demographic Microsoft seeks to lure to WP7.
As far as what you need, you will find that some of these things will come to WP7 like various calendar apps due to the vast number of APIs made available by MS.
You may also find that some of these things may never come or may not come for quite some time. I, for one, hope to never see a file explorer on WP7.
The fact is, this isn't android and that's a good thing. Each has its own role to play and fits in where they fit in. If WP7 had been around back in 2008 as the alternative to ATT and the iphone, android would most likely be a niche device for the above geeks and tech nerds.
That being said, only Android will fully fill your present and perhaps future needs.
Good luck. Whichever direction ya go.
Wyn6 said:
As far as what you need, you will find that some of these things will come to WP7 like various calendar apps due to the vast number of APIs made available by MS.
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That's one of the things that I was thinking about as I read what he wanted to do. Unfortunately, Mango only allows for read-only access to the Contacts and Appointments. The only way to create an app like that (that actually integrates with the existing calendar app) would be to make the changes in the cloud and let the phone sync like normal. I guess you could always have a 100% standalone calendar app though.
I also want to say that the inability to expand memory using SDHC card will restrict many companies to bring their larger good graphics game to WP7... I have 16GB but I know their are people with only 8GB memory and they cannot expand it..
Now checkout this game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CwSedSzckE&feature=relmfu
It looks a very heavy game by memory wise , if we want games like this on WP7 than 8GB device is a very small handset to have several of this kind of game.. I dont think gameloft can bring such games to WP7 with current restrictions on expandable memory..
****ty textures.. probably fits into the 400-500mb range.
The iphone version weighs in at 511MB..
You should probably get the SGS II and be done with it. You're not likely to find a better android device this year, and android will serve your purposes better than WP7.
It'll play 1080p h264 video in a mkv container without re-encoding.. and supports HDMI out using a MHL adapter.
Even with Mango's new APIs, you're not going to get the same level of functionality that you're looking for.
1. WP7 apps are not written using native code, they use silverlight, XNA or a combination of the two
2. There will never be a file manager or a task manager
3. There is no bluetooth file transfer
4. No Expandable storage
5. Small number of applications (this will be less of an issue as time goes by.. the marketplace is growing fairly rapidly)
6. Limited hardware options
7. No true multitasking (applications don't run constantly in the background until they are exited.. they do on android)
8. No Usb mass storage
I have both devices.
Maybe i can help you a bit.
I do have both devices (+ I have some more). It was part of the benefits of my last job and also part ( almost a requirement) of my actual one.
- If you switch to Android from Wp7 you feel like going back to WinMO a bit. Tons of Rom's,tons of walpapers but milligrams if you need help.
- The greatest benefit of WP7 is the unified platform. Maybe you don't realize it atm, but for 99% of people I've spoken to, it's a deal breaker.
- Not, I repeat, not my solely opinion: everything onscreen with Omnia7 looks better than on SGS2. People always want to tinker with the Omnia7 when I put both phones on the table (sometimes I carry the IPhone 4 with me also).
- SGS2 is literally bloated with redundant crapware. If you guys have ever bought a Sony Vaio in 2008-2010, this is worse.
- SGS2 takes mindblowing photos and FullHD videos (that they don't look like shot through a fishbowl).
-there are some neat tricks bundled on SGS2 but nothing you can't dl from market for free.
-battery is on par.
-voice commands are better on WP7.
-SGS2 feels like under development. 16bit graphics + wake up lag...for amoled+ and dual core? WTF?
- WP7 is more on the legal side, harder to sideload stolen/cracked apps. On android, on the other hand, you get hundreds of forums just for that.
If you have more questions I'd be happy to answer.