Related
Hi All,
Running rooted Hero with Modaco 2.5.1 rom ( thanks Paul )
Was hoping someone could ( simplistically ) answer a few question for me.
As I understand it - one of the things holding back development of Hero ROMS is that HTC haven't released the kernel for the Hero.
1) What exactly IS the kernel in the greater scheme of things?
2) When are HTC likely to release it?
3) When it is released, what new things will it allow developers to do?
4) Anything else relevant to it worth knowing?
TIA
Look at these:
1. The kernel is the Operating System for the phone, it runs everything.
2. That is the magic question...
3. It'll allow more development in terms of mods. we'll be able to change alot more and get more out of the phones.
I'm sure others will have more detailed explanations.
Regarding question 2:
I've gotten response from HTC support the other day that the release is planned but no sure date could be given.
Date: 5th of October
My question:
Hello there, I realize that this might not be the normal kind of request you guys get, but here goes. This is probably not your average request and might require escalation. I was wondering when the source code for the Hero kernel was gonna be available at developer.htc.com?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Answer:
Hello
This is quite a normal question we get here at HTC. The source code is something that will becoming soon. We have had contact with those far higher than my self or are planning on adding the source code as soon as possible. I have not been given a time scale but bases on the code for the two other handsets i should expect it in the next couple of weeks.
Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, educated guess would be around the release of the Hero in the US.
Some if I have this right -
The kernel is the basic underlying OS of the phone, and a ROM sits on top of this end gives us the end user experience ( and Sense UI is within the ROM ).
Am I right in thinking the kernel is linux based?
And a big magic question - when the kernel is released, will people be able to modify it and get the bluetooth working properly?
Sorry if it's a bit basic - but interesting to me....
The Kernel is not the OS (As most people understand an OS to be) (OS meaning Operating System)
It's at the core of the OS but is not the OS. You can keep the same build of an OS but update the kernel and vica versa. It is (put simply) what converts the hardware calls from the OS into something the hardware understands.
So (using current issues as explanation) The OS tries to load the GPS and the kernel isn't configured with the right settings the GPS won't load. Similarly if you try and use the trackball and it's not setup in the kernel then it won't do anything.
The OS will still work fine with other things but until the kernel has the right settings put into it it just won't see the parts of the phone it's not set up to.
Here is a technical description of a Kernel.
http://www.linfo.org/kernel.html
I'm sure I've just made it as clear as dishwater but if not I hope it's helped.
J-Zeus said:
Some if I have this right -
The kernel is the basic underlying OS of the phone, and a ROM sits on top of this end gives us the end user experience ( and Sense UI is within the ROM ).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not exactly. To add to what akirainblack has said already...ROM stands for Read Only Memory. In this context it is a bit different as it is the complete package that makes up the Kernel, the OS and anything that is pre-installed to the phone. When you run the RUU (Rom Update Utilitiy) on your PC is completely refreshes the system software in your phone - Kernel, OS and any pre-installed apps - just as if you had bought it from the shop like that.
J-Zeus said:
Am I right in thinking the kernel is linux based?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes.
Hmmm...
simple question... when the kernel is available... would we be able to get a white taskbar on the Hero?
//Nik
When the kernel source is available, we should be able to rebuild Android completely from the source code repositories and do practically whatever you want.
Regards,
Dave
foxmeister said:
When the kernel source is available, we should be able to rebuild Android completely from the source code repositories and do practically whatever you want.
Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Including getting Bluetooth working?
J-Zeus said:
Including getting Bluetooth working?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In theory, yes. In practice, the situation is a little more complicated, but at the very least I'd imagine it would be possible to get BlueX, or something like it, working on rooted Heros fairly quickly.
Regards,
Dave
Given that this is a Linux kernel, aren't HTC required by the GPL to make the source available to all Hero owners?
This is covering the same ground, but is another way to look at things regarding the kernel and the OS. The kernel abstracts the specifics of the hardware from the Android system. For example, when the Android system requests that the bluetooth hardware be enabled, the kernel can translate that request so that it works with the particular hardware of the phone - as the bluetooth hardware of the Magic may be different from the bluetooth hardware of the Hero. So the kernel, is an interface that translates and Android call to the specific hardware level controls necessary. The kernel sits between the hardware and the Android system.
It also means that releasing the kernel will not allow us to make changes to the Hero Android user interfaces. If we want to change colours, icons and so on in the Hero ROM, we would need the source code for their "tweaked" Android and maybe to some degree their TouchFlo software. I doubt they would give that away. It would allows us however, to tweak the kernel, or transplant the driver code for specific hardware pieces in the Hero, to a newer version kernel.
I understand that the release of the hero kernel, could help me with my cause (getting 1.5/1.6 'clean' android on my hero without any htc apps/front ends).
Somebody suggested contacting HTC and asking for it to be released.
I have a few questions regarding that:
1) Has this happened before? That HTC released an android kernel?
2) Did this happen after the request?
3) Who should we contact to get it? (which HTC division)
4) Is there a possibility that they don't want to release it, because it would allow people to copy parts of the proprietary interface?
E2K said:
1) Has this happened before? That HTC released an android kernel?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Take a look at http://developer.htc.com/
The Dream and Magic sources are available.
E2K said:
4) Is there a possibility that they don't want to release it, because it would allow people to copy parts of the proprietary interface?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The HTC Sense UI won't be included in the kernel source.
They dont have to release the source of them.
New question
Is it possible to create a new donut kernel (2.6.29) with the changes they made to the 1.5 kernel (2.6.27)?
Looks like they send you the hole kernel, not just some patches and new drivers...
mopodo said:
Take a look at http://developer.htc.com/
The Dream and Magic sources are available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So this means that we could compile or 'cook' a working vanilla android 1.5 for the HTC hero, with everything working fully?
HTC HAS to release the kernel source as required under the GPL license that the kernel was released under. It is indeed a linux kernel and it contains the necessary parts to work the hardware along with extra drivers and modules (stupid monolithic kernels).
Here's what I don't get (and hopefully somebody will clarify this for me). Why hasn't anybody tried building android with the current kernel available? Android has the ability to be built around a pre-compiled kernel (it does this if you do a straight make right after repo sync with the pre-compiled dream kernel). You'd only need to re-build the wlan.ko module for the new kernel and the gps module would be compiled against the specified kernel, so it should work.
If I had Hero, I'd test it (if you want to trade your Hero for my G1, hit me up ), but there's no reason it shouldn't work.
Up to now, I've only seen ports, and those are hard to make work because of the pre-compiled files, so that leads to loads of file-swapping and finger-crossing, but an AOSP make should still work. Anybody wanna try it (or post me a hero kernel and I'll compile you a stock donut build to test).
jubeh said:
HTC HAS to release the kernel source as required under the GPL license that the kernel was released under. It is indeed a linux kernel and it contains the necessary parts to work the hardware along with extra drivers and modules (stupid monolithic kernels).
Here's what I don't get (and hopefully somebody will clarify this for me). Why hasn't anybody tried building android with the current kernel available? Android has the ability to be built around a pre-compiled kernel (it does this if you do a straight make right after repo sync with the pre-compiled dream kernel). You'd only need to re-build the wlan.ko module for the new kernel and the gps module would be compiled against the specified kernel, so it should work.
If I had Hero, I'd test it (if you want to trade your Hero for my G1, hit me up ), but there's no reason it shouldn't work.
Up to now, I've only seen ports, and those are hard to make work because of the pre-compiled files, so that leads to loads of file-swapping and finger-crossing, but an AOSP make should still work. Anybody wanna try it (or post me a hero kernel and I'll compile you a stock donut build to test).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, thank you for this information. You make it sound like it's possible
I tried searching for the Hero Kernel, but I could only find this:
http://developer.htc.com/
The hero is not listed (maybe it shares a lot with the magic kernel?).
edit: this post dating from september 10 stated that HTC would "release the kernel source soon".
This was more than a month ago though..
edit2: calling HTC Netherlands right now..
edit3: after explainig the need for the kernel, I've been on hold for 10 minutes now..
edit4: more than 18 minutes now
edit5: after 26 minutes I hang up
Well I have a Hero running Modaco 2.2. I could post this kernel (where?) Or it surely could be extracted from one of the ROMs available on this very site
SquiffSquiff said:
Well I have a Hero running Modaco 2.2. I could post this kernel (where?) Or it surely could be extracted from one of the ROMs available on this very site
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could be wrong, but I believe there is a difference between the 'kernel', and the 'kernel source'. The second one is needed when you want to compile the kernel.
Speaking as one who has compiled kernels in the past there are three components required here:
The kernel source- this is typically available from http://kernel.org/ If HTC have made any changes to the source of the kernel itself then these should be apparent in their distribution of the kernel source
The relevant configuration file '.config' which should accompany their distribution of the kernel source and permit you to compile any other kernel as a drop in replacement.
Source code and makefiles for any custom kernel modules ('drivers' in windows terminology) In Linux these have to be compiled together with the kernel.
To use a cookery analogy:
The kernel source is the raw ingredients. It can be set up for anything from a supercomputer to a DVD player depending on how you use it. The kernel config is the method which will allow you to bake the type of cake you intend. The modules sources are any of HTC’s own custom ingredients required for everything to work. THe kernel is the finished cake which you eat.
Hi guys!
I'm wondering what I'd have to do if I wanted to modify the built in apps inside Android..
I've got a HTC Hero running FroydVillain 1.5.0. Let's say... I want to modify the messaging app that's included, MMS.apk. I wouldn't know how to go about this, and I have a few questions...
Firstly, what sources exactly are used for building the built in apps for a given ROM? The source code link in the FroydVillain post, for example, is just for the kernel. The rest of the OS isn't there.
Secondly, I hear that in order to modify a built in app, you need to build the entire OS. If I just download all the code from Google official repo, and compile that, will it just... work on my phone, provided I use a kernel that is specific to my phone?
Lastly, are there any tips anyone has for someone who just wants to modify a couple of the built in apps? Is it possible to build them as standalone apps? Or import them into Eclipse?
I've had a search around the forum and the internets in general, and people have asked similear questions, but I've yet to find a good answer. This thread comes to mind: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=635197
If anyone could help me, or point me in the direction of any help, that'd be awesome! Thanks!!
FunkTrooper said:
Hi guys!
I'm wondering what I'd have to do if I wanted to modify the built in apps inside Android..
I've got a HTC Hero running FroydVillain 1.5.0. Let's say... I want to modify the messaging app that's included, MMS.apk. I wouldn't know how to go about this, and I have a few questions...
Firstly, what sources exactly are used for building the built in apps for a given ROM? The source code link in the FroydVillain post, for example, is just for the kernel. The rest of the OS isn't there.
Secondly, I hear that in order to modify a built in app, you need to build the entire OS. If I just download all the code from Google official repo, and compile that, will it just... work on my phone, provided I use a kernel that is specific to my phone?
Lastly, are there any tips anyone has for someone who just wants to modify a couple of the built in apps? Is it possible to build them as standalone apps? Or import them into Eclipse?
I've had a search around the forum and the internets in general, and people have asked similear questions, but I've yet to find a good answer. This thread comes to mind: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=635197
If anyone could help me, or point me in the direction of any help, that'd be awesome! Thanks!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) The whole sources for everything are there
http://github.com/ninpo
2) You can import the sources to eclipse, but I think you will need to build the entire tree, as opposed to just what you change
3) Apktool lets you do smali and resource edits on an APK. Without knowing what you aim to do, it's hard to guide you specifically.
Most apps are based on the sources provided by google. I assume you are talking about Froyo Hero ROMs (i.e. FroydVillain), which apps are generally built from the source of CyanogenMod. Specifically for FroydVillain, if you look around ninpo github you will see some packages with some changes to their code, although it does seem that many of the changes in recent releases are not there. I have actually PMed ninpo about this and hopefully this is only a technicality.... I assume that the other packages and apps (most of them) he just compiled off the CM sources without changes.
In any case, if you compile an app either from the CM source or from google's original sources, it should work just to copy the apk file - just make sure you use an appropriate ROM (i.e. Froyo ROM if you built it from Froyo sources). The reason to want the CM sources, is that if they have incorporated further fixes (over the google sources) you may want them.
Finally, some more practical advice: I would start with the google sources: http://source.android.com/source/index.html since I have found these instructions and explanations easier to begin with - it should be quite straight forward to build these sources on a linux machine (or VM).
Then you can also try to tackle the cyanogen source: http://wiki.cyanogenmod.com/index.php?title=Building_from_source currently missing instructions on how to build for hero. But if you only want to copy apks out of it, you can just build a generic build (like in the google souce).
If you have specific problems, ask and I'll try to help you.
Good luck.
pulser_g2 said:
1) The whole sources for everything are there
http://github.com/ninpo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For example where are all the changes to the dalvik code? I do not follow closely enough the changes in Froyd to point out other things which might be missing (if at all), but there are relatively few committed changes to the CM code. Specifically the dalvik code, ninpo mentioned hundreds of changes which caught my interest and are definitively not there.
The kernel sources do seem to be up to date always - been following that one closely .
Thanks for the advice I love this forum!
What I'm trying to do, in case you're wondering, ultimately, is to modify the built-in messaging application to give the user the option of sending a message by the normal method, or by using their provider's free webtext service, something that all the carriers seem to offer here in Ireland.
So, for example, you'd press the Send button, and you'd be able to select one of those methods. (of course, you'd have to have a data connection for the webtext). There's also be an interface for entering your login credentials for your carrier's website.
I'm doing this party because it would be very useful. I also feel that it would give me a good introduction to how you'd go about modifying Android. I mean, from a programming point of view, it shouldn't be *too* hard to do. I already have a simple standalone app that I made which can send a text message via an Irish carrier's webtext service. But it's all good experience to try to modify other people big codebases.
I have a good bit of experience with web application development, but my experience with other programming is a little more limited. I usually use PHP, where there's none of this compiling nonsense. You just write scripts and off they go!
So I'm gonna go off and see if I can set up an environment where I can build.. the OS, I guess.
If I was to take the vanilla official Google sources, would they work on my phone? Or would I have to use an official Google developer phone... or the emulator? Or maybe if I stopped writing here and investigated those links you've provided, I'd know that by know.
Brb, investigating
Yeh investigating and just trying to do it is usually the best way
To clarify what I was trying to say above: All the java code is obvious very portable - one of the big advantages of java. In the case of android it is compiled to an .apk file and this file should be, at the very least, portable to all android "devices" running this android version. So the apk you build (for example from the vanilla 2.2 sources) should work on the emulator (good for initial debugging) and any 2.2 ROMs.
erasmux said:
For example where are all the changes to the dalvik code? I do not follow closely enough the changes in Froyd to point out other things which might be missing (if at all), but there are relatively few committed changes to the CM code. Specifically the dalvik code, ninpo mentioned hundreds of changes which caught my interest and are definitively not there.
The kernel sources do seem to be up to date always - been following that one closely .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm currently on "vacation" from any and all Android development for a week. I'll be back after the weekend, at which time my modifications will be cleaned up and committed to git. The kernel is always current with my latest kernel release due to GPL obligations. The extra time away has also highlighted some changes I need to make both to the kernel and to my Android modifications when I get back.
Hacre said:
I'm currently on "vacation" from any and all Android development for a week. I'll be back after the weekend, at which time my modifications will be cleaned up and committed to git. The kernel is always current with my latest kernel release due to GPL obligations. The extra time away has also highlighted some changes I need to make both to the kernel and to my Android modifications when I get back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Ninpo
Hi,
Please can someone explain why Exynos has a bad rep for custom ROMs? Samsung release the kernel and I assume it contains either open source drivers or binary blobs. Either way we have a functional boot.img with a working ~3.4 kernel, that kernel should presumably boot any sensible 4.4+ system.img right?
I'm asking because I'm considering building a clean ASOP ROM for the Tab S just to get rid of the crazy amount of bloat. This is obviously trivial with the Nexus device line, but I'm just trying to understand why it's complex in this case? Can we not just use the stock kernel/drivers with any arbitrary userspace e.g ASOP git or CM? Does the SoC really matter to us for non-kernel projects? Or are all the problems purely in the custom kernel world?
Also, is there anything actually important in Samsung's userspace that i'm missing? It's really just the UI and little extra features for the camera and things right? I can't help but feel the speed gain from an ASOP built would be incredible, all the hardware should work just fine given a working stock kernel?
Thanks!
@eousphoros is working on porting CM right now. Why don't you PM him and see if you can put your heads together on it?
jasonfxp said:
Hi,
Please can someone explain why Exynos has a bad rep for custom ROMs? Samsung release the kernel and I assume it contains either open source drivers or binary blobs. Either way we have a functional boot.img with a working ~3.4 kernel, that kernel should presumably boot any sensible 4.4+ system.img right?
I'm asking because I'm considering building a clean ASOP ROM for the Tab S just to get rid of the crazy amount of bloat. This is obviously trivial with the Nexus device line, but I'm just trying to understand why it's complex in this case? Can we not just use the stock kernel/drivers with any arbitrary userspace e.g ASOP git or CM? Does the SoC really matter to us for non-kernel projects? Or are all the problems purely in the custom kernel world?
Also, is there anything actually important in Samsung's userspace that i'm missing? It's really just the UI and little extra features for the camera and things right? I can't help but feel the speed gain from an ASOP built would be incredible, all the hardware should work just fine given a working stock kernel?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The big problem I ran into is with gralloc/hwcomposer. The hwcomposer that ships with the device is 1.3 whereas the opensource is currently only 1.1. While the initial thought of just copying gralloc.exynos5.so hwcomposer.exynos5.so as propertietary blobs seems like it a good one, they are unfortunately linked to a ton of libraries in /system/lib that makes bringing them over troublesome at best. Though that being said that is the hack I used to get my one and only bootable rom up and running.
Going further the issue with the exynoshwc 1.1 that I have been fighting with is after opening up /dev/graphics/fb0 it trys to send it an ioctl that I assume is the S3C_WIN_CONFIG pointer and gets an ENOTTY back from the device. If you are interested in helping out please checkout the cyanogenmod porting thread in general where I have linked my local_manifests.xml with my git repo's and a blog of my progress.
Cheers.
EDIT: Has anyone ever requested source from samsung? What seems to be the most succesfull method?
Good morning,
as per thread title I'm trying to build my first custom ROM.
As it is my first time ever trying this, instead of starting from scratch I decided to port an existing ROM to our device.
I decided to go for Paranoid Android (AOSPA) ROM, for two reasons: I previously used and liked very much the KitKat version, and there is currently no port of this ROM.
I read a lot of guides on how to do this, and while I learnt a lot, I'm still not quite sure on how to properly do this. So I thought I might ask for some help.
What I learnt so far is this:
1) Fork Paranoid Android's manifest and add compatible device and kernel repositories (I chose @MWisBest's device repo)
2) Fork Paranoid Android's vendor_pa project and add device support
3) Fork device tree and adapt some makefiles
What I still don't quite get is:
1) Apart for device-specific fixes, is this enough to TRY a build?
2) Regarding device, are there some specific fixes to make a working ROM? (e.g. I knew something about block-based OTAs so I disabled them following ParanoidAndroid's change #68 on Gerrit)
You can see my work on GitHub, search for my username Bruno3589 (I'm not allowed to insert URLs right now, I need to make >10 posts).
I'll try a build ASAP, but it might take a while since I'm limited in terms of internet connection and time.
Any help or suggestion is really appreciated!
Thanks in advance and have a good day
P.S. I know MWisBest's device unifies all variants (tuna) instead of making separate ones (maguro,toro,toroplus), I thought it would be useful to have a single build.
I'm posting this now and hope in doing so some new input can be reached. Due to recent new and old exploits we need this, I have hardened the kernel some, from CopperheadOS, and put in place full "Harden usercopy", updated it to 3.10.108, and before I go any further in breaking the kernel i release this WIP. I refer to this post ( https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=80265757&postcount=50 ) for the current state of mobile calls etc.
Fastboot images:
190919: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OAzYc_D_FHbbmIyFiSVtGLolB2EfiE40
290819: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1d8FNiFlMN6Bey6xD606pBomqBgSiZ-MO
Features:
OS Version: 8.1.0 Oreo
Kernel: Linux 3.10.108
Important informations:
You should be familiar with general installation of custom roms.
Required for installation: fastboot
This ROM needs a clean install, old /data may cause problems!
Working:
WIFI
Bluetooth
OTG-USB
NFC
These things are NOT working.
Camera; is not included due to inconsistency in the build currently. But failed to connect to the camera last time it did.
GSM; this will require reworking some android code, making some progress i think.
Code:
Abort message: 'CANNOT LINK EXECUTABLE "/system/bin/netmgrd": cannot locate symbol "_ZN6google8protobuf8internal20RepeatedPtrFieldBase4SwapEPS2_" referenced by "/system/vendor/lib64/libcneapiclient.so"...'
FM-Radio (not included)
GPS
Bugs:
Installing apps freeze the phone for a while.
Basically, this release needs help.
Source:
https://github.com/threader/local_manifests
https://github.com/threader/kernel
https://github.com/threader/android_device_sony_sumire
https://github.com/threader/android_device_sony_kitakami-common
Patch for external/protobuf attached to this thread.
Modified libcneapiclient.so attached.
Credits:
Everyone involved with the Sony-msm8994 project ( https://github.com/sony-msm8994/android_device_sony_kitakami-common/commits/lineage-15.1 )
Mr. Open devices "jerpelea", for actually answering some of my stupid questions I should have realized myself.
Berni-0815 for trying to do this for the z5c and leaving useful resources.
And everyone posting and following the Guide to port to Lineage-16.0 thread by algui91 (https://forum.xda-developers.com/xperia-z5/general/guide-to-port-to-lineage-16-0-t3931428) and willing to participate, this is a community effort after all.
Please don't quote this thread, I will edit it as I release new builds and make progress.
I was unsuccessful in building a flashable zip image first time I tried some moons ago, I don't know if this was due to the need of a TWRP update or just my half arsed attempt, I would appreciate if someone could direct me to correctly doing so.
Cheers
How can i help including the fact that i am nearly noob in Linux / Unix and havent built any custom ROM at the moment?
DP
threader said:
BuzzerHead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
let me think on that, but there are two things that's needed, a libcneapiclient.so that is msm8996 perhaps and for Android 8.x, maybe we can decompile and figure out the differences. And a Qualcomm trust zone from from maybe 8996 to hack and plug the holes. I'm still reading up.on this though but if you Google "chipsec Qualcomm trust zone" or indeed just the first results for " Qualcomm trust zone" you certainly see the problem ( https://blog.quarkslab.com/introduction-to-trusted-execution-environment-arms-trustzone.html , https://www.blackhat.com/docs/us-14/materials/us-14-Rosenberg-Reflections-on-Trusting-TrustZone.pdf )
I'm re-working the external/protobuf modifications just now as I think that is why the bug i listes occurred.
Edit:
Right, great, after unhacking the hacks and returning the protobuf API to its original state I'm stuck an error before the quite impossible error i had earlier, so this is not going as quickly as i thought, either.
Code:
Abort message: 'CANNOT LINK EXECUTABLE "/system/bin/netmgrd": cannot locate symbol "_ZN6google8protobuf2io17CodedOutputStream13WriteVarint32Ej" referenced by "/system/vendor/lib64/libcneapiclient.so"..
This is a clearly defined symbol already but perhaps not behaving as intended and an error my previous attempt somehow worked around.
The following might be the reason it hangs during package install though;
Code:
09-16 18:46:55.875 865 956 W SchedPolicy: add_tid_to_cgroup failed to write '1947' (Permission denied); fd=3
09-16 18:46:38.393 865 1126 W NativeCrashListener: Couldn't find ProcessRecord for pid 2958
Any news?
Is this project dead? Seeing a newer version of LOS on this device would be nice.
Sent from my SM-T580 using XDA Labs
TALUAtXDA said:
Is this project dead? Seeing a newer version of LOS on this device would be nice.
Sent from my SM-T580 using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's resting... My life up ended and screwed my peace and tranquility, I simply have not had the time to look at it, I'm having a look now as long as the peace lasts.
I see there is a 10.0 now, with some collaboration maybe we can get this all working, I argued a lot with the vendor libs, i just need to get a grip on what's going on there with the other project. As far as i can tell quickly looking at it I can merge some of those changes to the unified kernel 3.10.108 I'm using and see how things go, It will take a some time to get going again. As far as the kernel goes I ought get it up to 3.12, there are some pagetable ioslation patches that are required for safe operation etc, but I paused kernel work until i could get Android in shape, then life happened....