Related
Ok so in all the leak excitement going around I missed this. Was the official 2.6.32 kernel source released by HTC or do we in some way have this source?
Q&A is over there ----------->
And no, the source has not been released. They, legally, have 30 days after OFFICIAL release of the software to open source it.
cosine83 said:
Q&A is over there ----------->
And no, the source has not been released. They, legally, have 30 days after OFFICIAL release of the software to open source it.
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I knew somebody was going to say something about Q&A. This is a dev question therefore it belongs in the dev forums. Besides,
<------------------------ Douchebags over there
I think legally it's supposed to be released immediately. The GPL says nothing about 30 days
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html
cosine83 said:
And no, the source has not been released. They, legally, have 30 days after OFFICIAL release of the software to open source it.
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Someone else who's never actually read the GPL.
lol Guys, let's just ignore the GPL. HTC does. I'm serious. There's no sense in arguing over the GPL because it doesn't matter to HTC. My question was answered. I saw some FroYo kernels for Sense 2.2 and was just wondering if it was 2.6.29 or 2.6.32. Question answered. Thread over. Thanks again.
chuckhriczko said:
lol Guys, let's just ignore the GPL. HTC does. I'm serious. There's no sense in arguing over the GPL because it doesn't matter to HTC. My question was answered. I saw some FroYo kernels for Sense 2.2 and was just wondering if it was 2.6.29 or 2.6.32. Question answered. Thread over. Thanks again.
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I thought those roms weren't using the right kernal source (hence 3mp camera, etc).
DanBergundy said:
I thought those roms weren't using the right kernal source (hence 3mp camera, etc).
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They are using an older leaked kernel. The latest OTA officially isn't out yet (which you already know) and that means the latest kernel and it's source is yet to be released. Once the New official OTA Froyo comes out, the newer kernel source will come after that, and then they will have everything working 100%. Now, they may get everything working beforehand, but I'm just saying at the very latest that is when everything will be working.
I already emailed HTC about releasing the source by the way. Here's the response:
Thank you for taking the time to contact us in regards to the source code for the newest update to the Evo 4G. Although the update is not officially available until August 3rd, HTC will typically publish on developer.htc.com the Kernel open source code for recently released devices and software as soon as possible. HTC will normally publish this within 90 to 120 days. This time frame is within the requirements of the open source community. Thank you for your patience.
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I don't know where this "requirements of the open source community" comes from though.
saipoob said:
I already emailed HTC about releasing the source by the way. Here's the response:
I don't know where this "requirements of the open source community" comes from though.
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It means before the open source community gets too pissy. So long as they release within that timeframe, any legal action would it be pursued immediately after release of the build without source wouldn't have gotten anywhere before any issues were entirely mitigated by the release of the source.
chuckhriczko said:
Ok so in all the leak excitement going around I missed this. Was the official 2.6.32 kernel source released by HTC or do we in some way have this source?
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Looks like a question...is phrased like a question...Hell, it even has punctuation like a question. I'm going with a question that should be in Q&A.
kyleblakepeters said:
Looks like a question...is phrased like a question...Hell, it even has punctuation like a question. I'm going with a question that should be in Q&A.
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^ This ^
Whether or not the question has to do with the development or not, it's still a question... Now, if the question has to do with something specific IN the Development forum, then it belongs in that specific thread, NOT in a new post.
If you were posting a link or actual source for this, then it would be development material. But there is no material, no link, no anything, it's just a question.
This forum is for developers to post roms, source codes, modifications and other things of that nature.
The Q&A Forum is basically for ANY AND ALL questions that do not pertain to a specific thread already listed here.
It's not rocket science.
Unknownforce said:
^ This ^
Whether or not the question has to do with the development or not, it's still a question... Now, if the question has to do with something specific IN the Development forum, then it belongs in that specific thread, NOT in a new post.
If you were posting a link or actual source for this, then it would be development material. But there is no material, no link, no anything, it's just a question.
This forum is for developers to post roms, source codes, modifications and other things of that nature.
The Q&A Forum is basically for ANY AND ALL questions that do not pertain to a specific thread already listed here.
It's not rocket science.
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Someone is earning his junior moderator badge!!!!!!!
Yall do realize that all this bashing just makes u look like pricks who cares where its posted that's not our job now please everybody go back to yalls jobs and let's the mods do there's please....
bcnice20 said:
Yall do realize that all this bashing just makes u look like pricks who cares where its posted that's not our job now please everybody go back to yalls jobs and let's the mods do there's please....
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Saying "yalls" makes you look stupid. Just saying.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
DanBergundy said:
Saying "yalls" makes you look stupid. Just saying.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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yes because "y'all" isnt common vernacular anywhere in the world, right??
Negrito said:
yes because "y'all" isnt common vernacular anywhere in the world, right??
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So is murder. Must be okay.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
yes, murder is in most english speaking vernacular. I fail to see your point.
Maybe we should make a new section for the threads like this. I'm voting for "Mindless Bickering" as the new thread name!! ;-P OK please don't flame me no offense to anybody i've been up for 30 hours and am all wigged out on coffee and reases peanut butter cups ..... cracking myself up ....
Can everyone just shut up and move on? Please? Quit bumping this thread up with your stupidity.
That includes you.
...make a boot.img containing king kernel #4 cfs sense and post it for me. I would do it myself, but it never seems to work.
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
This is posted in the wrong forum
GMK83 said:
This is posted in the wrong forum
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This is a request for something requiring decompiling of a boot.img...this seems like development request to me.
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
jdkoreclipse said:
This is a request for something requiring decompiling of a boot.img...this seems like development request to me.
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
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It belongs in the questions section.
Point and counterpoint...
It's a question, yes, but a question about development, so theoretically, it could go in either subforum. Fairly sure he posted it here because A)there's more dev's that could help with this question here in the development subforum and B)I know he's got a hell of a good reputation here in the dev forums so it'll probably be easier to get the help he needs and deserves. *sigh* I guess I'm just pointing out once again that the site we all know and love DOES go by a three letter moniker, but those three letters are XDA not PMS... lol
rekanpwnsall said:
I Love You.
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lol I think you're pretty special, too! (^_^)>b glad to know I'm not the only one who knows the true definition of "community"... see #'s 3,5,7,8 & 9
com·mu·ni·ty
[kuh-myoo-ni-tee]
–noun, plural -ties.
1.
a social group of any size whose members reside in a specific locality, share government, and often have a common cultural and historical heritage.
2.
a locality inhabited by such a group.
3.
a social, religious, occupational, or other group sharing common characteristics or interests and perceived or perceiving itself as distinct in some respect from the larger society within which it exists (usually prec. by the ): the business community; the community of scholars.
4.
a group of associated nations sharing common interests or a common heritage: the community of Western Europe.
5.
Ecclesiastical . a group of men or women leading a common life according to a rule.
6.
Ecology . an assemblage of interacting populations occupying a given area.
7.
joint possession, enjoyment, liability, etc.: community of property.
8.
similar character; agreement; identity: community of interests.
9.
the community, the public; society: the needs of the community.
If someone wishes to comply with his request, please notify him by PM.
Thread closed.
At the moment there are 3 normal user titles I am aware of:
Junior Member
(Something I forgot)
Senior Member
I think that xda should make some more, and make them more relevant to the theme of the forum.
Also, if we could have custom user titles, that would be great!
Already been posted...perhaps Search practice might be useful?
XDA Search Video
juzz86 said:
I'll sum it up for you (or try, anyway!)
There are Junior Members, Members, Senior Members first. These make up the vast majority of XDAs userbase.
Recognised Contributors are nominated by other users and/or Mods/Developers. They are recognised for their contributions which are not specifically Development, such as detailed guides, one-click utilities and other tools/mods.
Recognised Themers are also nominated by users/Mods/Developers, for their work themeing custom ROMs and providing standalone themes for flashing.
Recognised Developers are nominated and approved by the Developer Committee, for their work in Development whether it be ROMs, Root methods, bootloader unlocks etc.
Elite Recognised Developers are again assessed by the Developer Committee, and are deemed to have gone above-and-beyond in providing knowledge/hacks/tools/apps/ROMs for the XDA community.
Forum Moderators are appointed by the Moderator Committee, after submitting an application (see the 'sticky' at the top of this forum - currently applications are not open). They are the first-line of keeping the forums tidy, friendly and orderly.
Senior Moderators are the next step up the ladder, providing site-wide support for Forum Mods and looking after the nitty-gritty issues, as well as areas of XDA not policed by FSMs, such as the Marketplace.
Administrators are next. There are several Admins - each look after a specific part of XDA such as the Portal, the Members and the User Experience of XDA as a whole.
At the top is Mike Channon, who is overall Forum Administrator.
Other titles you may come across:
Moderator Committee - sits on the Mod Committee
Developer Committee - as above, but for Developer Committee
XDA Newswriter - publishes articles for the Portal (front page)
Retired xxxx - have since officially 'left' their XDA position
Hopefully that clears most of them up for you
Contrary to what a lot of people expect, the thanks-meter does not figure at all in determining a users tag.
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Hmm. Did you read the post? I was saying for better ones - not giving a list!
liamwli said:
Hmm. Did you read the post? I was saying for better ones - not giving a list!
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That wouldn't really do anything useful honesty. The titles we have now are just fine an serve their purpose perfectly.
Also adding new titles would drive the mods nuts, having to decide who deserves what an why. Then having to remove titles from people who abuse it.
Honestly, be glad with what you got, no offense.
Mr.Highway said:
That wouldn't really do anything useful honesty. The titles we have now are just fine an serve their purpose perfectly.
Also adding new titles would drive the mods nuts, having to decide who deserves what an why. Then having to remove titles from people who abuse it.
Honestly, be glad with what you got, no offense.
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Loads of offence taken. And I was really talking about the main titles - the ones that normally update, but no matter
liamwli said:
Loads of offence taken. And I was really talking about the main titles - the ones that normally update, but no matter
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sorry bout that, I'm a bit tired. I think the ones we have now are pretty simple,I do agree a little change to them would be nice. Certain posts an thanks, earns you a specific title.
Mr.Highway said:
sorry bout that, I'm a bit tired. I think the ones we have now are pretty simple,I do agree a little change to them would be nice. Certain posts an thanks, earns you a specific title.
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Now you know what I was saying
I agree with the OP, we should either rase the post count for Snr Member as everybody is one of them nowadays or have more ranks at much higher post rates.
so this was why you asked me how to be a RC...
liamwli said:
Now you know what I was saying
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I'll bring it up with the other mods an see what they think.
-Grift- said:
so this was why you asked me how to be a RC...
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Its not actually, its because I applied and was rejected
Too be honest, I can't see this happening. Especially custom titles as a simply do not have the time to spend policing the utter crap that people would enter into that field.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium HD app
conantroutman said:
Too be honest, I can't see this happening. Especially custom titles as a simply do not have the time to spend policing the utter crap that people would enter into that field.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium HD app
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I didn't think we would get custom user titles, but why cant we have better, more suited to the site user titles?
At the moment, they are using the default vB ones..
liamwli said:
I didn't think we would get custom user titles, but why cant we have better, more suited to the site user titles?
At the moment, they are using the default vB ones..
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Because tbh the only titles of relevance are the recognised titles and anything else would only serve to lengthen somebodys e-peen, which is not something we want to encourage.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
there is no reason for anything beyond senior member because with anyone who has made 500 posts the thank count is more useful anyways...
although maybe something thanks based...
like after the title for every bar
ex Senior Member IX, Junior Member II, Member IV, etc
just a cool idea for IF admins are going to add/change titles and/or the titling system
It's been brought up before and the admins don't want rampant posters driving their count up just to get unique titles.
* iTouched Epic
There should be an automatic title if over 1000 thanks.
not looking at anybodys thanks-o-meter
benjamingwynn said:
There should be an automatic title if over 1000 thanks.
not looking at anybodys thanks-o-meter
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Chances are someone with over 1000 thanks is already "recognized" or could easily apply for it.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using xda premium
mf2112 said:
Chances are someone with over 1000 thanks is already "recognized" or could easily apply for it.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using xda premium
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Hehe okay, can i apply for it? And where lol
benjamingwynn said:
Hehe okay, can i apply for it? And where lol
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Go here
After reading a few threads and comments from our members I thought it may be worthwhile to create a Feedback, Recommendations or Idea's thread for XDA. We want to improve our forum for developers and the normal users.
So, rather than sending a PM to a Moderator, please feel free to leave any feedback or idea's you may have to improve XDA, so we can discuss them properly, openly, with the plan to hopefully implement the ideas which are good.
It's sole purpose is to improve XDA and collect your thoughts and idea's.
We will all be monitoring this thread, and someone will hopefully reply without much delay.
Thanks
Rick
Moderator/Developer Committee
Edits done by Clark Joseph Kent to better support XDA.
XDA-Developers needs to be more about developers
While I see that time and users have made XDA less about development and more about user support, I think XDA has gone too far in that direction.
Developers need a place to DISCUSS development.
The "General" subforums are too overwhelmed with threads like "Post pictures of your phone", "list of threads linked from other places" and other random "general user" stuff.
The "Q&A" subforums are now a place where moderators chase newbies to. The most technical question you might find in the Q&A section these days is "I just bricked my phone, what do I do?" (Usually, the answers are either making fun of the OP or telling him/her to search.)
The "Development" subforums, which seems like a logical place to discuss development, is now reserved for people to post finish products only and beg for donations - It's the XDA version of the "app store." There's no actual "development" discussion allowed.
Here's what we don't have anymore (but desperately need):
A place where a kernel developer could start a thread discussing the pitfalls of turning off processor cores on a particular device when the device is idle. That would likely lead into a discussion on possible ways to optimize the IN/OUT code for the cores, which would actually *gasp* promote development.
A place where a person might post a "HOW TO" document describing how to modify a stock firmware for a specific device to override carrier controlled lock downs. (For example, editing the CSC for a samsung device.)
A place for development related DISCUSSION - not just a subform for "I cobbled together mods I copied from other people into a so-called ROM and will now beg you to donate to me and press my "thanks" button."
XDA promotes itself as a DEVELOPERS FORUM. The definition of "forum" is "A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged." Doesn't that seem to indicate that development related discussion would be encouraged here?
(continued...)
---------- Post added at 11:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 AM ----------
So, the obvious question about my post above is how do you moderate a "developers discussion" subforum?
I honestly don't see a problem with that. You make posting access to that subforum by request only. The access should be granted pretty freely but with a note reminding the user that any non-development discussions will result in loss of access to those subforums. Plain and simple. Any RD's or ERD's would automatically be given access without the need to post a request.
Only developers should moderate those subforums, as the fact is that XDA has some moderators that have no clue whatsoever what "development" is.
I'd even go so far as to suggest that XDA's ERDs would be given final say in moderating those subforums. Actually, it might be a good idea to give ERDs final say in moderating all the development related forums - including the existing so-called "development" and "original development" subforums.
...
I'll have one more post to discuss the current vagueness of the rules and the random enforcement of them...
Gary, while I agree with many of your key points one I disagree with is that only elite developers (who don't have the time) are the ones who should have the 'final say' with regards to moderation, and that they are the best qualified to do so. Given a good set of rules to use as guidelines, any level headed person who is committed to helping XDA move along smoothly is qualified to be a moderator. I am not a developer, however, I've been moderating forums for years now. People are people no matter what the subject. You and I have discussed the rules, which are being worked on. I like the idea of a 'developer only', invite only forum. I think it's time to make that happen. Given that I am so not a developer, I know when I'm over my head - and we have people on the team who moderators like me can turn to. Moderators are here to help, not hinder - I think we can work this all out so the developers are happier, users learn, and moderators moderate
garyd9 said:
I'd even go so far as to suggest that XDA's ERDs would be given final say in moderating those subforums. Actually, it might be a good idea to give ERDs final say in moderating all the development related forums - including the existing so-called "development" and "original development" subforums.
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Some interesting points you've listed, which I can honestly say are being looked at, however your point above, I'm gonna have to disagree with. The ERD's are extremely busy with actual development, as are most, if not all the developers. If we where to also ask the ERDs to moderate all the development related forums, they'd have no time to develop
I didn't suggest that ERD's would be constantly moderating them - only that they'd have the opportunity (if they chose it) to be the final say. Who do you trust more to make an informed decision about what is development and what isnt':
Entropy512 or ModJohnCanBarelyRoot?
I think the ERD's are more involved (at least in reading) than many people think, and XDA should respect their knowledge and ability by giving them the option of stepping in saying that, despite what a non-developer moderator might think, this is or isn't dev related.
Anyway, it's just a suggestion.
garyd9 said:
I didn't suggest that ERD's would be constantly moderating them - only that they'd have the opportunity (if they chose it) to be the final say. Who do you trust more to make an informed decision about what is development and what isnt':
Entropy512 or ModJohnCanBarelyRoot?
I think the ERD's are more involved (at least in reading) than many people think, and XDA should respect their knowledge and ability by giving them the option of stepping in saying that, despite what a non-developer moderator might think, this is or isn't dev related.
Anyway, it's just a suggestion.
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Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. I have the utmost respect for ERD's, and RD's. I'm not a developer myself, would never claim to be, but I do try and read up on things to understand them so I can make informed decisions. But likewise, I do ask developers for advice on specific things, then learn from what I'm told. In an ideal world, we'd let ERD's have the final say, maybe even RD's, but with so many in house fights amongst so called dev's, there is the potential for abuse which is what concerns me. I cannot see ERD's doing this mind you.
Again, interesting ideas which I welcome
So on to what I'm sure will be a sore subject: Rules and moderation...
I realize that XDA has grown by leaps and bounds since I first joined. Back then, there were only a handful of people geeky enough to have smartphones. Today, they are the norm. With more users there are more devices, more forums and XDA needed more moderators. That's perfectly understandable. It's also understandable that XDA has reached into the "non-developer" pool of people for moderation help.
However, the forum rules which the moderators supposedly moderate by are too vague and really don't guide users (or moderators) in the proper way to do things. It only makes matters worse then the moderators enforce those rules in seemingly random ways. Finally, when a bad decision is made by a moderator (or a decision that a user thinks is bad), there's no documented way for a user to ask for help. "Report to moderator" is pretty useless when you're only reporting to the same person you are complaining about.
If there's a guideline, it should be shared by ALL the moderators and documented so that users can understand it. The primary location to find these rules and guidelines is a post that is stickied in every single forum/subforum here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?a=81 If it's not in that post, then it's fairly safe to assume that users don't know about it.
So what's wrong with those rules? Well, they are pretty vague in too many cases. Vague rules lead to different people interpreting them differently (or interpreting them selectively for different people.) Here's some examples:
"Don’t use XDA to advertise your product or service. " "Commercial advertising, advertising referral links, pay per click links and other income generating methods are forbidden. Do not use xda-developers as a means to make money." -- Yet, how many people have seen a developer clearly post (or get someone else to post on their behalf) that if people don't "donate" enough money for them to buy a device, they don't development for that device. To me, that sounds like "I'll sell my development for the cost of the device."
"Off-site downloads are permitted if the site is non-commercial and does not require registration.... but may be permitted if ... the site is a relatively small personal website without commercial advertising/links (i.e. not a competitor forum-based site with purposes and aims similar to those of XDA-Developers.com.)" -- There are literally thousands of links on this website for downloads on sammobile.com or samfirmware.com. That site requires registration, advertises, and has forums that "compete" with XDA. Yet, the links are still there.
"If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, you MUST first seek their permission, and you must give credit to the member whose work you used." -- I think this one depends on who is violating the rule. Apparently, if its a 15 (now 16) year old kid, it's okay. Yes, I'm bitter about this one as I have had my work used (without my permission), had reported it to moderators, was told someone would look into it, and then had the report disappear into a black hole. It only made matters worse when that same person accepted "donations" given as a result of the code stolen from me. Being I ask people to donate to a children's hospital (not to me) for my work, I feel as if my work was stolen from me, and money was stolen from a child who desperately needed medical care. There's no question as to who developed the code, as gerrit/github timedate stamps don't lie. In truth, I wouldn't have minded about this so much if the little thief forwarded the donations to a real charity. I do share my work freely, but I VERY seriously resented (and still resent) my work was used for a thief's profit. To my way of thinking, there's nothing vague about the rule here - only the lack of enforcement.
Then there's the whole thing with that types of threads go into which subforums. There's simply NO consistency with this. A perfect (and recent) example is that I posted a thread in a dev subforum containing modifications for a single stock samsung package, SecLauncher2.apk. That was pushed to apps&themes by a moderator. That same moderator, however, has permitted threads for modifying only "SystemUI.apk" and only "android.policy.jar." He's also permitted completely non-development related things such as "post modem dumps here" and "stock deodex firmware."
So, not only are the rules vague, but the moderation of the rules is so inconsistent that a user can't even look to precedent to decide what is and isn't allowed.
....
I'm going to stop here. I feel like I've started ranting, and that isn't productive. The points are valid, but discussing them has brought up things I'm (obviously) very bitter about.
Really appreciate this feedback, guys. We're going to bring it forth in our monthly call with the admins and site owner. :highfive:
What about doing a forum named like "other devices root development". There are a lot of potential devices that don't get root because they don't call the devs atraction (and some of the have locked bootloaders).
I also think that there are forums from brand new "high-tech" devices that don't get development because well, there is no development for unlocking bootloaders or doing something like root for locked bootloaders, which happens on some devices. So, again, othere devices could have their chance.
mfsr98
@garyd9, no need to be bitter, I'm actually glad to hear you views, so rant away. I created this thread for this very purpose, to hear the views of the users, to better XDA
...........................
You can lead a fool to wisdom but you can't make him think! XDA, mobile wisdom, not a n00b feeding ground!!
-gary
While I agree with some of what you have said I feel if you want strictly 100% development talk then that is reserved for the RD forum for RDs to have amongst themselves... Yes there are developers that are not RDs and to that I say they should apply to become RDs. There needs to be a place to allow users to provide feedback and suggestions on things that are developed.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
sgt. slaughter said:
-gary
While I agree with some of what you have said I feel if you want strictly 100% development talk then that is reserved for the RD forum for RDs to have amongst themselves... Yes there are developers that are not RDs and to that I say they should apply to become RDs. There needs to be a place to allow users to provide feedback and suggestions on things that are developed.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
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There is a place for that. The problem is there isn't a place for real development talk. Any real discussions get drowned out by inanity. I think with the influx of new people that noise to real development ratio has finally reached a tipping point. Then again, just how much input can Jon Q. Public have in development other than saying "I want this" or "How do I do that"? Those are user issues. We need to develop better developer solutions.
reinbeau said:
There is a place for that. The problem is there isn't a place for real development talk. Any real discussions get drowned out by inanity. I think with the influx of new people that noise to real development ratio has finally reached a tipping point. Then again, just how much input can Jon Q. Public have in development other than saying "I want this" or "How do I do that"? Those are user issues. We need to develop better developer solutions.
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Hence my initial suggestion, that if you want 100% dev talk take up and use the RD forum and discuss in there...
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
sgt. slaughter said:
Hence my initial suggestion, that if you want 100% dev talk take up and use the RD forum and discuss in there...
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Xda DEVELOPERS. Why would a site called xda DEVELOPERS push development talk off into a corner, while non development talk reigns free?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
garyd9 said:
Xda DEVELOPERS. Why would a site called xda DEVELOPERS push development talk off into a corner, while non development talk reigns free?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
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Adapt with the times as things change.... Change and adjusting is tough at times but if done so correctly its for the better of all those involved...
It is absolutely impossible to have purely 100% code talk in the dev sections. The size of the userbase is way too large for the mod team to regulate that.
Hence the RDs section will be best if you want no nonsense dev talk.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
sgt. slaughter said:
Adapt with the times as things change.... Change and adjusting is tough at times but if done so correctly its for the better of all those involved...
...
Hence the RDs section will be best if you want no nonsense dev talk.
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You may be right, but I don't want to consider the possibility that XDA-Developers might become a non-developers forums. If your suggestion is carried out, I'd predict that it'd slowly (but surely) lose it's developer core and become more and more another "android central" or other generic handheld forum.
My reasoning is simple: XDA doesn't give birth to developers - they are born and bred before they get here. However, you're suggesting that they won't have a place to "talk shop" here unless and until they achieve RD status, which I'm assuming involves a certain application and requires that some projects have already been hawked here on XDA. I'm making some assumptions about RD here, but I think it'd be fairly safe to assume that a person can't submit a professional non-XDA resume to get it. As well, you are also always going to have some devs that simply refuse to "apply" for what they consider a "silly title." More especially those that see "ROM cooks" called RD and look the other way.
What is a real developer going to do in that case? Simple: find someplace else to talk shop.
(It's almost comical the way I talk about RD here. I've been doing professional dev for a very long, have given back to the android and ppc communities, and been an XDA member for a long time - but never bothered with RD status here when the program started. So, I honestly don't know what it might involve. I might be wrong about any type of requirements.)
I guess this question moves beyond my suggestions. I've been basing things on a developer-centric forum. That's what XDA-Developers was when I joined, and quite a few FAQ's we point users to indicate that it's still intended to be. If XDA is going to move away from that, then please disregard my suggestions.
Take care
Gary
sgt. slaughter said:
Hence my initial suggestion, that if you want 100% dev talk take up and use the RD forum and discuss in there...
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
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Not everyone who develops is an RD - and why would you remove the ability for people to learn and share?
garyd9 said:
Xda DEVELOPERS. Why would a site called xda DEVELOPERS push development talk off into a corner, while non development talk reigns free?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
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Exactly.
It seems obvious that one specific issue that everyone agrees on is that *something* needs to be done to handle "developer discussion." While there are different opinions on the best way to do that, I haven't seen anyone post anything implying that dev's talking shop is a bad thing.
Fallen Spartan, perhaps this thread can branch that particular conversation to a separate thread? That would allow this thread to deal with the other issues without confusion.
Thanks
Gary
garyd9 said:
It seems obvious that one specific issue that everyone agrees on is that *something* needs to be done to handle "developer discussion." While there are different opinions on the best way to do that, I haven't seen anyone post anything implying that dev's talking shop is a bad thing.
Fallen Spartan, perhaps this thread can branch that particular conversation to a separate thread? That would allow this thread to deal with the other issues without confusion.
Thanks
Gary
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For the time being I'm inclined to let the discussion continue in this thread as there isn't much else being discussed here atm. If more idea's/recommendations appear, we can then create a new thread....if needed. Also, if a set way has been agreed on a particular idea/recommendation, I can create a second post updating users so its not lost within the thread
Making room for real developers again
reinbeau said:
Not everyone who develops is an RD - and why would you remove the ability for people to learn and share?
Exactly.
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Hello,
I am one of those professional developers in real life, who don't have the time to play silly points games just to get access to the developer part of a forum. So my "XDA status" is stuck at "noob", but I am really here to look for a place to share technical discussion with other developers.
Looking around (I have been lurking for years now), I think the following improved structure would be a good idea:
In each area (General, OS, device) there should be 4 development subforums rather than the current 1 or 2:
1. Firmware and theme releases.
One thread for each firmware/theme series, hosting download links in the top 3 posts, and support discussions in the rest of the thread.
For instance the Android Samsung Galaxy III "Firmware and theme releases" forum would have exactly one "Cyanogenmod" thread and at most one "Cyanogenmod kang by temasek" thread.
Real cooks can post new threads and create the first two replies in their own thread. Non-noob users can post in existing threads after the 3. post in the thread.
2. Free App releases.
One thread for each free app, hosting download links in the top 3 ports, and support discussions in the rest of the thread.
For instance the Android Free App releases forum would have exactly one "ROM Manager" thread.
Real developers can post new threads and create the first two replies in their own thread. Non-noob users can post in existing threads after the 3. post in the thread.
3. Unreleased experiments
One thread for each unreleased firmware/theme/free app, hosting only discussion of what should go into it, difficulties in making it etc. When released the thread is moved to 1 or 2 as appropriate, at the thread OPs command.
Only real cooks and real developers can post here, there is a limit on new threads per user per month depending on the posters general standing.
4. Developer to Developer
This hosts regular forum style discussion threads where developers for that target (OS/phone) can ask each other questions about technical details for the target, one thread per subject matter, no threads about specific projects. This is the place to discuss stuff like ("Which wceload variants are in which upstream firmwares" in a WM forum or "How are the GPIO pins on the SoC connected to other parts of the phone (in a phone specific forum) or "How does the foo() API work" (in an OS forum)).
Only real cooks and real developers can post here.
Determining access:
Now as to determining the "real cook" and "real developer" status of a user, there could be a quiz and a number of extrinsic tests for each OS. Quiz questions would be multiple choice that a real cook/devel would answer easily, but a poser would get wrong. Other tests could be "prove that you have a developer account on Market/AppStore/OVI/Marketplace" "Show that you can sign an empty sis/cab/etc. with a valid developer certificate" Because getting a new certificate/account for some of the platforms may no longer be possible or may be otherwise restricted, such
tests would just count as N correct quiz answers in determining the pass/fail.
Hi all members of XDA,
whilst we as RC's do our very best to keep XDA as organized as possible by giving you all kind of solutions, like the Q&A/T Template project, the Index project and the Ask Away help project etc etc, these were all RC initiated projects. Although all of these projects were started with the best intentions, I realize now that we never asked what you as users wanted to keep XDA organized. By starting this thread, I want to ask you all, members of XDA, to ventilate your opinions what's missing on XDA and what you really want to accomplish your needs. I could start a poll for that, but I do not feel the need for that at this very moment. I always can start a poll after most wanted needs posted, but for now I only want to know what's living in our community and what is needed in your opinions that is missing at this very moment. Really hope that you will react on this post as much as possible, so I can see what you really need/miss . All reactions will be answered by me (or, hopefully, fellow RC's) and, based on your reactions, I will start a new thread regarding your wishes, based on the most mentioned issue. If there are more important issues, there will be started of course more threads to cope with these "issues".
Everbody, from junior member, member, senior member and also RC's/RD's, are invited to react.
kindest regards and hoping for a lot of reactions, kuzibri
Hi Kuzibri, nice initiative.
This is only minor but every time I log in I have to scroll right down to the bottom to change the theme to XDA 2013.
Does anyone else find this annoying? I'd rather the option be up top somewhere.
Secondly I think the q&a templates a good idea but no one makes them anymore. The ones that we do have get used and divert thousands of questions from dev threads. The only reason the project died is because the admins implemented an auto generated q&a bot thread to all threads in development sections. Meaning that when someone with less than 10 posts replied to a dev thread, his post got moved to a newly created q&a thread with no OP. That was a bad idea IMO, it led to a lot of useless threads being auto generated. Only humans should create threads.
But since devdb have a q&a thread link, maybe we should utilise it again and make it useful for everyone by actually opening and maintaining these q&a threads with faq's and stuff.
Art Vanderlay said:
Hi Kuzibri, nice initiative.
This is only minor but every time I log in I have to scroll right down to the bottom to change the theme to XDA 2013.
Does anyone else find this annoying? I'd rather the option be up top somewhere.
Secondly I think the q&a templates a good idea but no one makes them anymore. The ones that we do have get used and divert thousands of questions from dev threads. The only reason the project died is because the admins implemented an auto generated q&a bot thread to all threads in development sections. Meaning that when someone with less than 10 posts replied to a dev thread, his post got moved to a newly created q&a thread with no OP. That was a bad idea IMO, it led to a lot of useless threads being auto generated. Only humans should create threads.
But since devdb have a q&a thread link, maybe we should utilise it again and make it useful for everyone by actually opening and maintaining these q&a threads with faq's and stuff.
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Hi Art,
Which XDA theme are you using now? I use XDA 2013 beta - 1024.
Regarding the q&a bot threads, I already had many discussions with higher ranked people, like @svetius, regarding the fact that these bot's had no OP, but never got a satisfied answer, also not what you are suggesting now, so IMHO this is a dead end street, unfortunately. I fully agree with you that only humans can start a thread, but I'm afraid that we cannot change that anymore on the bot threads. Although well intended in the beginning, they became indeed a real disaster, which led to the unfortunate end/death of real the Q&A/T Template project, of which I still think that it's a very important addition to XDA. :crying:
kindest regards, kuzibri
kuzibri said:
Hi Art,
Which XDA theme are you using now? I use XDA 2013 beta - 1024.
Regarding the q&a bot threads, I already had many discussions with higher ranked people, like @svetius, regarding the fact that these bot's had no OP, but never got a satisfied answer, also not what you are suggesting now, so IMHO this is a dead end street, unfortunately. I fully agree with you that only humans can start a thread, but I'm afraid that we cannot change that anymore on the bot threads. Although well intended in the beginning, they became indeed a real disaster, which led to the unfortunate end/death of real the Q&A/T Template project, of which I still think that it's a very important addition to XDA. :crying:
kindest regards, kuzibri
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using XDA 2013 beta.
About the q&a bot threads, what we can do is take ownership of the existing ones and add an OP and other important details to make them worthwhile.
@xanthrax took over one of the bot threads and did a really good job with it http://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-one/help/qa-bliss-stalk-team-bliss-bacon-10-28-t2923210
If a human made q&a thread exists for a ROM then maybe the admins can bring back the feature that moves the under 10 posters there whenever they reply to dev thread.
Or at least give devs that option if they want it.
Art Vanderlay said:
I'm using XDA 2013 beta.
About the q&a bot threads, what we can do is take ownership of the existing ones and add an OP and other important details to make them worthwhile.
@xanthrax took over one of the bot threads and did a really good job with it http://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-one/help/qa-bliss-stalk-team-bliss-bacon-10-28-t2923210
If a human made q&a thread exists for a ROM then maybe the admins can bring back the feature that moves the under 10 posters there whenever they reply to dev thread.
Or at least give devs that option so they want it.
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Click to collapse
Will have a thorough look into that, cause I still think that the Q&A/T template thread is a very good way to organize XDA.
kindest regards, kuzbri
Delete
Art Vanderlay said:
Delete
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Hi my friend,
send a PM to @svetius, with BCC to you, about the Bot Threads and giving them a "face".
kindest regards, kuzibri
kuzibri said:
Hi my friend,
send a PM to @svetius, with BCC to you, about the Bot Threads and giving them a "face".
kindest regards, kuzibri
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no new bot threads have been created for months
Sent from my KFFOWI using XDA Labs
sd_shadow said:
no new bot threads have been created for months
Sent from my KFFOWI using XDA Labs
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I know my friend and most of them are useless and senseless. That's why I think we should restart the Q&A/T project. I know we have to approach dev's to join this project, but when we are able to convince, certainly the dev's linked to devdb, that this is a dead end street, we stand a good chance. Only restriction IMO is the willingness of other RC's help to restart this project again. Will you join Art and me? IMO this is the only way to prove that it was not a good idea by XDA to start these bot threads with no personal OP. I'm still willing to create a lot of Q&A/T threads as possible when we can dev's prove that this is the way to keep their original dev thread as clean as possible and XDA as organized as possible.
kindest regards, kuzibri
Q&A/T Template project
Hi,
already send a PM to a non-devdb related dev to join our Q&A/T project. Let's see what happens:fingers-crossed:.
kindest regards, kuzibri
Art Vanderlay said:
I'm using XDA 2013 beta.
About the q&a bot threads, what we can do is take ownership of the existing ones and add an OP and other important details to make them worthwhile.
@xanthrax took over one of the bot threads and did a really good job with it http://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-one/help/qa-bliss-stalk-team-bliss-bacon-10-28-t2923210
If a human made q&a thread exists for a ROM then maybe the admins can bring back the feature that moves the under 10 posters there whenever they reply to dev thread.
Or at least give devs that option if they want it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm fairly sure the limitation of no posting in dev threads for members with under 10 posts has been lifted. That's why no new Bot threads, and I don't think devDB threads can restrict their posting anymore either. Again, that's why no new Bot threads.
I think.
Darth said:
I'm fairly sure the limitation of no posting in dev threads for members with under 10 posts has been lifted. That's why no new Bot threads, and I don't think devDB threads can restrict their posting anymore either. Again, that's why no new Bot threads.
I think.
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about a month ago or so, I saw posts from under 10 members, saying other wise
Sent from my XT1080 using XDA Labs
sd_shadow said:
about a month ago or so, I saw posts from under 10 members, saying other wise
Sent from my XT1080 using XDA Labs
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Hmm... I could be mistaken.
Darth said:
Hmm... I could be mistaken.
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No, you are right.
Svetius explained it to me via PM.
Trafalgar Square said:
No, you are right.
Svetius explained it to me via PM.
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Has the 10 post rule been scrapped?
Art Vanderlay said:
Has the 10 post rule been scrapped?
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I am not sure about this but DevDB Q&A bots are gone.
Art Vanderlay said:
Has the 10 post rule been scrapped?
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Yes.
I've been a member of XDA since January of 2008, before 99% of the moderators had even heard of it, and before Android was released. Since then, the community has literally tumbled down to such a disappointing low. There's absolutely no incentive for developers to stick around anymore, and some of the members show such blatant disrespect for those who try to help them. Absolutely no one tries to learn how to do something as simple as learning how to use ADB. Another gripe I have with XDA is titles such as Recognized Contributor. Requiring a minimum post amount is quite a poor metric for contributions to the community. We should be judged based on content rather than quantity of low-quality/redundant posts.
For example, I applied for Recognized Contributor just because, with no real intention of actually getting it, after releasing a bootloader unlock for three Samsung devices along with another well-recognized and skilled developer, in addition to supporting the users who chose to utilize it. Before that, 95% of my posts are simply assisting members with accurate/relevant information or explaining various aspects of Android and hardware. I was denied because of post count.
This community used to be about learning and teaching, but the attitude and general reception of that ideology is long since past. The general attitude now is to self-serve and receive instant gratification. Look at people like Dan Rosenberg @djrbliss and ask them why they left. Incredibly talented developers and researchers used to thrive in this community and now are expected to spoon-feed everyone. There has definitely been a paradigm shift and it's definitely sad to see. I miss the early days of Android and even back when this site was dedicated to WM5/6 on XDA devices. Competent users no longer contribute to this community and I really don't blame them. It's all about scripts and one-click tools and completely missing the point of XDA-DEVELOPERS
I know @Surge1223 would echo this sentiment, but to be honest, I highly doubt any change in the foreseeable future. In a couple years, I envision XDA as a wasteland of Root Bounty threads and people complaining about Xposed not working.
ryanbg said:
I've been a member of XDA since January of 2008, before 99% of the moderators had even heard of it, and before Android was released. Since then, the community has literally tumbled down to such a disappointing low. There's absolutely no incentive for developers to stick around anymore, and some of the members show such blatant disrespect for those who try to help them. Absolutely no one tries to learn how to do something as simple as learning how to use ADB. Another gripe I have with XDA is titles such as Recognized Contributor. Requiring a minimum post amount is quite a poor metric for contributions to the community. We should be judged based on content rather than quantity of low-quality/redundant posts.
For example, I applied for Recognized Contributor just because, after releasing a bootloader unlock for three Samsung devices along with another well-recognized and skilled developer, in addition to supporting the users who chose to utilize it. Before that, 95% of my posts are simply assisting members with accurate/relevant information or explaining various aspects of Android and hardware. I was denied because of post count.
This community used to be about learning and teaching, but the attitude and general reception of that ideology is long since past. The general attitude now is to self-serve and receive instant gratification. Look at people like Dan Rosenberg @djrbliss and ask them why they left. Incredibly talented developers and researchers used to thrive in this community and now are expected to spoon-feed everyone. There has definitely been a paradigm shift and it's definitely sad to see. I miss the early days of Android and even back when this site was dedicated to WM5/6 on XDA devices. Competent users no longer contribute to this community and I really don't blame them. It's all about scripts and one-click tools and completely missing the point of XDA-DEVELOPERS
I know @Surge1223 would echo this sentiment, but to be honest, I doubt I see any change every coming at this point.
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Agree with this 100 percent. Also IMHO the post rule should be raised to 100 posts before posts in development. If they can contribute have them message the OP and if the OP thinks they can contribute then lift the limit for said user on said thread. I cannot tell you how many threads I just don't even bother reading after seeing a couple posts than are just as easily answered by googling questions.
Often even new R&D threads are just placeholders where people hope a "dev" will come chime in and then they can piggy back off of that. The whole culture has changed and its horrible and sad to see this. Also there is very little structure or general polling of those that drive the ideas and development this site thrives on. I definitely get the feeling the site is moving more towards generating traffic and less towards being a content driven site.
Sadly I think a lot of people are on board with the change.
ryanbg said:
I've been a member of XDA since January of 2008, before 99% of the moderators had even heard of it, and before Android was released. Since then, the community has literally tumbled down to such a disappointing low. There's absolutely no incentive for developers to stick around anymore, and some of the members show such blatant disrespect for those who try to help them. Absolutely no one tries to learn how to do something as simple as learning how to use ADB. Another gripe I have with XDA is titles such as Recognized Contributor. Requiring a minimum post amount is quite a poor metric for contributions to the community. We should be judged based on content rather than quantity of low-quality/redundant posts.
For example, I applied for Recognized Contributor just because, after releasing a bootloader unlock for three Samsung devices along with another well-recognized and skilled developer, in addition to supporting the users who chose to utilize it. Before that, 95% of my posts are simply assisting members with accurate/relevant information or explaining various aspects of Android and hardware. I was denied because of post count.
This community used to be about learning and teaching, but the attitude and general reception of that ideology is long since past. The general attitude now is to self-serve and receive instant gratification. Look at people like Dan Rosenberg @djrbliss and ask them why they left. Incredibly talented developers and researchers used to thrive in this community and now are expected to spoon-feed everyone. There has definitely been a paradigm shift and it's definitely sad to see. I miss the early days of Android and even back when this site was dedicated to WM5/6 on XDA devices. Competent users no longer contribute to this community and I really don't blame them. It's all about scripts and one-click tools and completely missing the point of XDA-DEVELOPERS
I know @Surge1223 would echo this sentiment, but to be honest, I doubt I see any change every coming at this point.
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Hi,
I understand your disappointment and frustration. Since we both joined XDA in 2008, XDA has grown to such a very large community that it needs very clear rules to be maintaned/managed as best as possible. Therefore it is for XDA not possible anymore to keep every member satisfied. Of course a lot has changed, sometimes leading to better results and sometimes not, but that's the reality. Besides that, the amount of different devices has grown enourmously, making the work of Mods, Admins and even higher not easier. I still see and know a lot of competent users who are willing to contribute to this community. I also know a lot of Mods and Admins with the best intentions to make XDA better. In summary: the purpose of this thread is to get/receive new ideas how to make XDA better organized in the future and/or add features to XDA that are now missing. That's my mission.
kindest regards, kuzibri