Develop Bugs

finally got wp7.....wow..

Wow is all I can say...I bought the focus and the UI blew me away as soon as I turned it on, I bought the focus. I have used all the mobile OS and this by far is the most sleek, easy to use, and just plain nice of all, I don't miss c&p bug I do miss multitasking in apps like last.fm, I can still send it back and get something else, but what's better then this? I'm typing this from wp7 now and man this keyboard is awesome, the level of little details they put into wp7 is crazy, gotta say I'm really impressed here, I'm sticking with this for a while to see where this goes, hopefully MS stays true to their word and keeps on supporting with updates, as for apps, I've come to realize that I don't need a million apps, I only use like 20 anyway, but it seems to be growing fast anyway. All in all super impressed with wp7,9/10 from me and if this keeps getting better, I don't see myself going back to anything else.

Yea I played with the Focus today at the AT&T(worst wireless carrier in the universe) store and I love the UI and how smooth the OS is. I'm currently on Evo 4G, but I'm considering WP7 once it comes to Sprint. I previously had the iPhone 3GS and WP7 user experience is very comparable with iOS. While I like Android the lack of GPU acceleration is a huge issue, until that's implemented the user experience will never compare to iOS and WP7. I'm holding out for the January update to see if MS adds free turn by turn navigation, better landscape support(what idiot decided that you can't input a URL in landscape mode?), flash and copy and paste.

Is there a list of wp7 problems or missing features? Cause it seems like I'm missing very little atm.

solidkevin said:
Is there a list of wp7 problems or missing features? Cause it seems like I'm missing very little atm.
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=814075
first pinned thread.
though i'm happy with my phone.

Believe it Or not I am very tempted to get an n8 as well, saw it in person and wow, what excellent hardware!! And it does all those little things like mass storage etc. Anyone here have an n8?

N8, looks great. But lacks balls and has a very crappy OS. Know of two friends whom have returned them. Due to bad reception and a buggy slow OS playing up..
Go Android or if you must iPh or W7 if you want all that exchange compatibility with MS apps etc at work.
That's where it is at...
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

solidkevin: The windows phone might have some small problems but that nothing compared to the N8. I only hear bad stories from people that have that phone.

KMino said:
N8, looks great. But lacks balls and has a very crappy OS. Know of two friends whom have returned them. Due to bad reception and a buggy slow OS playing up..
Go Android or if you must iPh or W7 if you want all that exchange compatibility with MS apps etc at work.
That's where it is at...
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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Symbian has way better Exchange functionality than Windows Phone 7. WP7 may not be thoroughly suitable for serious business use until Q3/Q4 2011. It's not the device/OS to get if you want great Exchange support. An HD2 or Blackberry Torch would be optimal for business use (assuming you like Touchscreens, otherwise a Bold would do).
There is no comparison between WM6.5/Symbian and WP7 when it comes to Exchange support. WP7's support is actually kind of embarassing considering it comes from Microsoft, TBQH. It's better than Android at least, and maybe on par with iOS, or perhaps a little worse than Apple, even - at the moment, at least.
Yes, the N8 isn't the best device, but it works well. Nokia will be patching Symbian the same way MS will be patching WP7. If you can deal with Windows Phone 7 and its functionality gaps, etc. then I don't see why anyone can simply discount an N8 when it's not out of the realm of possibility that it too can/will benefit from updates from Nokia.
Symbian also supports the ActiveSync Protocol, more Media formats, more DRM formats (including Windows Media DRM for syncing ZunePass subscription content to the phone).
The worse thing about Symbian is the user interface and the Screen Resolution of their touchscreen phones (what an odd choice of resolution, IMO).
I'm not even gonna continue. I've gotten my point across by now, hopefully.
The Samsung Focus is available for 79 bucks on contract at the local Wal-Mart here. The 8GB storage is a showstopper, though. I'm not playing SD Roulette with a phone. 16GB is the bare minimum I can put up with. The build quality isn't all that great. The back cover pulls off like a cheap hooker's bra.
TBQH, the only WP7 device I feel is worth buying is the Dell Venue Pro. Fortunately it's on T-Mobile and I get Corporate Discounts from Dell, so I'm sort of thinking about it. It's a shame the HD7 has such terrible build quality with such a bad LCD on it... Thoroughly pissed me off...
But I'm going to wait until CES. Maybe an Android device from a decent manufacturer will come out and I will stick it out here.
Judging from what Microsoft is saying, it's gonna take them a year to really get WP7 functionality up to par and judging form my experience with this phone... I simply don't have the patience for that...
I also want to see if RIM will come out with a decent Touchscreen phone soon with a more refined/better OS on it, as well. We'll see at CES. I'm holding off all purchases until then.

Well while I AM enjoying the focus at the moment, I am waiting for CES as well, I want to see what everyone offers as far as Android and Hopefully Nokia shows what it plans to do with Symbian because if it gets a revamp, I may have to get the N8, I will have a lot of money to spend, because I sold the extra focus I had (buy one get one free ATT), so If I want something else I can sell this one as well. But yea hopefully theres some interesting things at CES, really just Android and Symbian are what interest me though.

solidkevin said:
Well while I AM enjoying the focus at the moment, I am waiting for CES as well, I want to see what everyone offers as far as Android and Hopefully Nokia shows what it plans to do with Symbian because if it gets a revamp, I may have to get the N8, I will have a lot of money to spend, because I sold the extra focus I had (buy one get one free ATT), so If I want something else I can sell this one as well. But yea hopefully theres some interesting things at CES, really just Android and Symbian are what interest me though.
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Isn't it just Nokia now who are actively developing Symbian?

Symbian will be ditched to midend and Meego or however it's called will be used as highend platform. Known for months.
Symbian development is over for me. Nokia has a reeeaally hard time to give really competitive hardwarwe. I would forget it.
And yes, only Nokia does Symbian. All of the rest kicked it out, significant move.

N8ter said:
Symbian has way better Exchange functionality than Windows Phone 7. WP7 may not be thoroughly suitable for serious business use until Q3/Q4 2011. It's not the device/OS to get if you want great Exchange support. An HD2 or Blackberry Torch would be optimal for business use (assuming you like Touchscreens, otherwise a Bold would do).
There is no comparison between WM6.5/Symbian and WP7 when it comes to Exchange support. WP7's support is actually kind of embarassing considering it comes from Microsoft, TBQH. It's better than Android at least, and maybe on par with iOS, or perhaps a little worse than Apple, even - at the moment, at least.
Yes, the N8 isn't the best device, but it works well. Nokia will be patching Symbian the same way MS will be patching WP7. If you can deal with Windows Phone 7 and its functionality gaps, etc. then I don't see why anyone can simply discount an N8 when it's not out of the realm of possibility that it too can/will benefit from updates from Nokia.
Symbian also supports the ActiveSync Protocol, more Media formats, more DRM formats (including Windows Media DRM for syncing ZunePass subscription content to the phone).
The worse thing about Symbian is the user interface and the Screen Resolution of their touchscreen phones (what an odd choice of resolution, IMO).
I'm not even gonna continue. I've gotten my point across by now, hopefully.
The Samsung Focus is available for 79 bucks on contract at the local Wal-Mart here. The 8GB storage is a showstopper, though. I'm not playing SD Roulette with a phone. 16GB is the bare minimum I can put up with. The build quality isn't all that great. The back cover pulls off like a cheap hooker's bra.
TBQH, the only WP7 device I feel is worth buying is the Dell Venue Pro. Fortunately it's on T-Mobile and I get Corporate Discounts from Dell, so I'm sort of thinking about it. It's a shame the HD7 has such terrible build quality with such a bad LCD on it... Thoroughly pissed me off...
But I'm going to wait until CES. Maybe an Android device from a decent manufacturer will come out and I will stick it out here.
Judging from what Microsoft is saying, it's gonna take them a year to really get WP7 functionality up to par and judging form my experience with this phone... I simply don't have the patience for that...
I also want to see if RIM will come out with a decent Touchscreen phone soon with a more refined/better OS on it, as well. We'll see at CES. I'm holding off all purchases until then.
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Good post. You made some valid points, but I got the impression that you believe MS dropped the ball with WP7, and I don't believe that to be a true..or even fair assessment.
It is the nature of version 1.0 of just about anything to be incomplete..to be a work in progress. In regards to smart phone OS's, its always been that way. iOS v1.0 was very limited, as was Android 1.0, and so on so forth. I was an early adopter of both platforms and was at times frustrated by the limitations. But, as an early adopter I understood that this was the way it usually is, and that things would gradually flesh out.
For me, iOS never did "flesh out" enough. I've always loved the smoothness and general quality of iOS and the iPhone, but I found myself bored by it. Android did grow and develop quickly enough to keep me engaged, and I still enjoy the control I have when using Android...and also enjoy that the relatively open nature of it allows be to constantly tinker with my device. But, even though I usually enjoy doing so, the main reason I'm always tinkering with my Android devices is because I've never been satisfied with how they felt. I hate the apparently inherent choppiness and occasional lag of Android, and my main motivation for rooting my Android devices had always been to try to get rid that.
Somewhere between those 2 extremes lies WP7. Yes, in some regards it is limited. But, I can accept this for now because, as I mentioned earlier it is v1.0 and I know these limitations are being worked on as we speak. Many people are refusing to accept that, though...and it seems that you're one of them.
The gist of the argument seems to be that MS came late to the party, so they had already known what the dress code was, and shouldve showed up fully decked out. That they shouldn't have released v1.0 until it matched its contemporaries feature for feature. I disagree with this. I think MS was right in getting a v1.0 that provided the basic user experience that they were aiming for out there as soon as was possible. Did this strategy suddenly propel WP7 to the top of the smart phone world? No, not even close. But it has managed to grab just about everyone's attention...and has solidified it's position as a viable player. I believe that is all MS wanted to accomplish by rushing to release v1.0 just before the holiday season...and I also believe that it was better for them to do so than for them to sit out until after the holidays.
I am convinced that WP7 v1.0 is the best 1.0 smart phone OS released to date. I think that MS got the basics incredibly right...and that the limitations are going to begin to be addressed very soon. Yes, MS was late to the party, but they've shown up with more style than anyone else, if not with as much substance...and they are moving much faster than both Google and Apple did to provide said substance. WP7 is a joy to interact with. It is beautiful. It's fun. So much so, that despite the current limitations, I choose to use my HD7 as my daily driver...and to leave my Android phones at home.
WP7 is in many ways very good right now, and it has an extremely bright future. I can understand that some of you don't have the patience to wait for WP7 to catch up in the few areas that it's lacking in, but such patience is a prerequisite of being a happy early adopter. If you can't enjoy experiencing the growth process of a new platform, then maybe being an early adopter isn't for you. But, please people, don't make it seem like MS blew it in regards to WP7, because that couldn't be further from the truth.
Oh, one last thing. How in the world does the HD7 have horrible build quality?? Yes, as you tilt the phone away from the optimal viewing angle, the colors somewhat fade. It is not an AMOLED screen and the black levels pale in comparison..quite literally. But, when I use my phone, I tend to keep it within the optimal viewing angles...and within those parameters, the HD7's screen displays good and VERY natural colors..unlike the overwhelmingly oversaturated colors that my Galaxy S displays...and without any banding.
Also, I love the 4.3" screen. Those extra .3" make a real difference. Do I prefer the outrageously deep blacks and the incredibly effective viewing angles of the Super AMOLED screen? Yes, if course. But, I prefer my HD7's spacious, natural looking screen in every other way.
Outside of the screen though, I don't see how anyone can critize it's quality. I've owned MANY top of the line mobile devices, and none have felt better in the hand than the HD7. It looks good and feels good because HD7 uses high quality materials..unlike Samsung. People complain about the thinness of the back cover. It is just as thin..or thick, as the one on the Evo...and I don't see anyone criticizing it's quality. Despite being thin, it feels great when attached to the phone. The soft touch surface is great.
I'm also aware of the complaints about a relatively large gap between the removable and fixed portions if the back of the phone. I found this to be an optical illusion caused by the unfortunate location of the white sim card right where it's partially visible through the gap. But, I found an easy fix. I pulled my SIM card and colored the upper third of it with a black sharpie. Guess what...after that, the so called huge gap magically disappeared. The gap itself is no larger than on most phones. The location of the sim card was the problem. It looks great after taking a sharpie to it.

I can't reply to all the parts of that. Will take too long.
The build quality of the HD7 is terrible compared to the Dell Venue Pro. HTC was never known for having superior build quality. The HD2 was pretty good, though. Don't know why they paid so little attention to the HD7...
The HD7 has basically the same LCD panel from the Evo and/or HD2. It's not a good panel. It has bad color saturation and terrible viewing angles. It's also overly reflective. Size can only make up for so much, but you can get a Dell Venur Pro 16GB on contract for $50 less than an HD7 and the screen is only 0.2" smaller. The HD7 is a pretty bad phone by current standards. They used parts from last year to build a phone this year, and it's pretty apparent if you look at it next to other WP7 devices.
You can harp on the oversaturation in sAMOLED panels, but the fact and the matter is that it blows this crappy HD7 panel out of the water in almost any category. Viewing Angles, Brightness, Color Representation, etc. It's a bad screen. You can't make excuses for that... It almost looks foggy compared to an AMOLED panel (even something like the MyTouch 4G screen is obviously better).
Also, it has a smaller battery than some Blackberry Curve smartphones. 1150 mAh... Seriously? Anyone who uses their phone moderately will not be able to get good battery life out of that. It may be fine for YOU, at least now, especially with no third-party multi-tasking (this also makes WP7 perform artificially better compared to competing products - it only has to do one task at a time), but once that update comes and you're running 3-4 apps concurrently it will nosedize. All reviews has been pretty negative on the small battery in the phone.
The camera also isn't anything to rave about.
The materials used to build the phone are pretty dubious.
Build quality means the hardware build quality. It has nothing to do with the software.
Moving on to the software (WP7). Yes, they dropped the ball. They missed an opportunity to get a ton of frustrated Nokia and RIM users, as well as pick off more Android/iOS users when they decided to rush the OS out 6-12 months early with entire classes of functinality missing.
WP7 fails as a business phone right now, and Microsoft saying they're focusing on consumers is nothing short of an excuse. They said it will take almost a year to bake the business into the phone, so obviously that was in the roadmap. What they did was rush it out to try to save face while they "finished' the job. Coming from Android and Windows Mobile, some people are tired waiting on Manufacturers, etc. to "finish the job" while they sit there with a down syndrome phone saying "look how smooth it is, it's worth it!"
No HTML5 in the browser. No multi-tasking, C&P, embarassing Exchange Policy Support for a Microsoft OS, a user interface that in several areas looks like only 5 minutes was dedicated to design (Calendar, Dialer, etc.), lack of Flash (oand/r Silverlight), etc. Even blackberries have an HTML browser, now Not to mention WP7 didn't evne attempt to really exploit the enhancements made in Microsoft Exchange to convince business users to use it instead of RIM/Nokie/WM6.5 devices...
If you read my posts in this thread, you can clearly see that I'm not some Anti-WP7 fanboi.
But I think some people are making this OS to be way better than it actually is.
It really isn't revolutionary in any way, and falls on it face in many areas given what competing products can do and [rightfully] assuming competing products will improve as well.
The only thing that's really good about WP7 is the fact that it doubles up as a ZuneHD.
But a ZuneHD is cheaper than a whole smartphone and at this point in time it's almost worth buying an Andriod/iOS device and carrying a (much smaller) ZuneHD around than buying a WP7 device.
The hardware isn't all that good right now (will probably make a lot of "early adopters" mad at CES), and the manufacturers are paying little attention to what they're putting out.
If the Dell Venue Pro was in T-Mobile stores they would hardly sell any HD7s.

Sorry, gotta disagree about the dvp. It has already been recalled twice due to issues. How can you be confident that you will get 2 years out of it?
Coming from the hd2, the hd7 screen is fine. Maybe coming from a vibrant, its an issue, but I have seen more complaints about oversaturation and color banding of the focus screen then I have of the "washed out" look of the hd7.
I was a little worried about the back of the hd7, coming from the brushed aluminum back of the hd2, but since I'm not having to constantly pop the back to reset the phone, the back is no longer a worry and the texture is nice.
I've owned 4 HTC devices and overall the phones have been great. The best of them all (the hd2), is the only one that I had to replace due to failure. I consider that pretty good.
Maybe some early adopters will be frustrated by CES, but I doubt it. There haven't been many leaks of newer wp7 devices on the horizon. I think it might be fall before the next Gen wp7 devices hit, a full year after the hd7, which is about normal for new devices.
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

I had an hd2 before this. I'm not blind and pretty much every review said the screen was pretty bad.
Dev has a warranty. Ill get enough time out of it until I get a mew device, if I get it. It a better phone than the hd7, in every imaginable way.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

N8er
So now after fighting with everybody and proving WP7 is the best,
you say it basically sucks?
Hard to believe.
And apparently you don't have WP7 device?

It's all well and good comparing feature lists, but really when you are talking about a smart mobile phone, it comes down to usability.
I put up with the quirks of WM5, 6.1 and 6.5 for a few years. While it did technically have a lot of features, it was slow and a pain in the ass to use. And if anyone not familiar with the phone used it they were immediately lost.
Now I'm using WP7 (HD7) since October and it just works. It's fast and everything is intuitive and makes sense. And oddly enough I am only very rarely missing some advanced features. For example, I thought I'd be crippled without tethering, but as it turns out I am using my laptop via tethering much less when I'm travelling because the mobile browser and mobile apps on WP7 are so much better than any previous mobile browsers I'd used, so I'm more likely to use it rather than just getting frustrated and dragging out the laptop to use the "proper" browser. The great WP7 keyboard has a lot to do with this.
And if I lend my phone to someone else so they can make a call or check their email or whatever, they can use it! WP7 passes the idiot test! I would actually get this phone for my father!
A few days ago I met a techy friend who's a nokia die-hard, he had just purchased the N8. We swapped phones for half an hour to test them out, and the look on his face afterwards was proof enough that MS is on to something. My initial impression of the N8 software was that Nokia hasn't changed their OS since 1999. There was an impressive list of features for sure, if you could find them, as the menu system and shortcuts confused the hell out of me. And fonts were tiny everywhere. Maybe I'm just spoiled by WP7 now, but the experience of using the N8 was dreadful.
TLDR; You can compare a list of features as much as you like to see which is best; but you have to experience it to appreciate it. And WP7 seems to have the edge in this regard at the moment, even above iOS and Android.

Focus
nrfitchett4 said:
Sorry, gotta disagree about the dvp. It has already been recalled twice due to issues. How can you be confident that you will get 2 years out of it?
Coming from the hd2, the hd7 screen is fine. Maybe coming from a vibrant, its an issue, but I have seen more complaints about oversaturation and color banding of the focus screen then I have of the "washed out" look of the hd7.
I was a little worried about the back of the hd7, coming from the brushed aluminum back of the hd2, but since I'm not having to constantly pop the back to reset the phone, the back is no longer a worry and the texture is nice.
I've owned 4 HTC devices and overall the phones have been great. The best of them all (the hd2), is the only one that I had to replace due to failure. I consider that pretty good.
Maybe some early adopters will be frustrated by CES, but I doubt it. There haven't been many leaks of newer wp7 devices on the horizon. I think it might be fall before the next Gen wp7 devices hit, a full year after the hd7, which is about normal for new devices.
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
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"over saturation and color banding", I have no idea what you are talking about. I have had the focus for a week now and the screen is amazing. I don't even use my laptop any longer, just IE on the Focus. I was an HTC advocate for years (8125, 8525, FUZE) and switched to the Focus after careful consideration and will never look back. I have heard these criticisms of the screen and quite frankly don't see any of it. Am I just lucky? I have been to three ATT stores and played with 3 different Focus's before buying and did not experience these screen issues.

N8ter said:
I had an hd2 before this. I'm not blind and pretty much every review said the screen was pretty bad.
Dev has a warranty. Ill get enough time out of it until I get a mew device, if I get it. It a better phone than the hd7, in every imaginable way.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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the reviews I've read, had the screen as the "worst" of the wp7 phones, but due to bigger color range of wp7, the screen looked better than the hd2. Being the worst of the wp7 phones, is like saying the worst between a lcd, a plasma, and a dlp t.v. They are all perfectly acceptable, some people like lcd, some like plasma, I like dlp because it looks better for sports.
As far as the dvp begin better than the hd7, what are you basing this on? Hardly anyone has been able to get their hands on one. You can't go to a store and try it out since its only coming through dell and MS.
HD7 has a bigger screen, and more RAM.
Hell, even engadget can't get a review out because their demo units keep breaking...
We get it, you hate the hd7, but I don't think the dvp is any better.

JamesAllen said:
"over saturation and color banding", I have no idea what you are talking about. I have had the focus for a week now and the screen is amazing. I don't even use my laptop any longer, just IE on the Focus. I was an HTC advocate for years (8125, 8525, FUZE) and switched to the Focus after careful consideration and will never look back. I have heard these criticisms of the screen and quite frankly don't see any of it. Am I just lucky? I have been to three ATT stores and played with 3 different Focus's before buying and did not experience these screen issues.
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http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2010...nding-issue-microsoft-could-partially-fix-it/

Storage and the Cloud: Let's be reasonable, people...

I started writing this post in another thread but I felt it was better off in it's own. Please read it in full if you're going to respond, I know it's long but you'll just look silly if you don't:
The reality is that most data plans are limited to 500MB, or if you're lucky 1GB, and for the vast majority of users this is way more than enough - in my case I do occasionally go over, which is why I'm on a plan where I just pay £5 per 500MB, it might not be the cheapest option but it's the best for me, and my bills are normally £30 a month, which is very reasonable for the quality of service I get.
Most people will never use the cloud features on their phones, in reality. Fair enough, some people will require a phone with a larger storage capacity. It would be nice to see some phones with larger storage, but there is a massive problem: take a phone with big storage, or with storage size options, to a mobile network, and they'll just charge an absolute fortune for it, so nobody will buy it. That limits your market to SIM free devices- and maybe a few people will buy it then, but probably not enough to make it worth your while.
What you guys that want extra storage have to prove is that you can get enough people on board to make it worthwhile for Samsung/HTC/Nokia to get out of bed and do it. With android/iPhone that isn't a problem because average joe will buy it regardless and probably won't have a clue what they're buying, but Windows Phone is a harder sell, despite being a better system (in a lot of our opinons, I believe).
In the meantime, firstly why are videos so important to you? On a 4" screen my eyesight would be pretty screwed after about half an hour, which is why I have a 32GB Android tablet for videos, with a nice comfortable 10" screen, and it just stays in the bag that comes with me. On the odd occasion I don't have my tablet, then Youtube is normally more than enough and using it only occasionally doesn't hack out at my data plan.
For music, I don't know of anybody who actually listens to their entire music collection on their phone, and in my own perfect world I wish people would realise this. My way around not being able to store all of my music on my phone is to just have a smart playlist of tracks that I have starred, automatically synchronising 250 of my starred tracks to my phone at random- that way I have a nice selection of music I know I like, which in a way is better because I'm making better use of my collection, and I get nice surprises occasionally.
In summary, I just want to ask of everyone: Please just remember almost nobody is in the same precise position as you. It's great that there is a large range of people here with a range of opinions, but you have to understand that assuming that everybody is the same as you is just going to annoy people. There is nothing wrong with expressing that you would like a phone with more internal storage - but say it, then move on. Don't carry on saying it over and over. And if you don't want a phone with more internal storage, say it, then move on. Don't start arguments because you don't agree with people.
I personally love my HTC 7 Pro and won't be changing it. It isn't perfect, but I'm not going to moan endlessly about what's wrong with it, I'm going to give my opinion where it's relevant, and if there's a good response I'll back it up with my reasoning. That's how forums should work.

andrewkeith5 said:
What you guys that want extra storage have to prove is that you can get enough people on board to make it worthwhile for Samsung/HTC/Nokia to get out of bed and do it.
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The best way to show OEMs that it's worthwile would be for one of them to have one out and for the others to see how it sells. Not by having everyone on this forum sending them a letter. The question is they don't they make the effort, at least once? When you see a N9 with 64GB and a Lumia 800 with 16GB it hurts.

Really not sure why its thought only apple can accomplish things like having a smartphone line with large storage options. There's a very simple solution to this: offer a larger 32GB storage option at a $100 premium in limited quantities (just like Dell did with the DVP) and see what happens. In Dell's case it didn't sell well (likely due to their distribution model) and it was withdrawn. OEM's like HTC and Samsung will be better placed to make this option work but again, have the option to withdraw the higher priced option.
In any case, it seems they are still in softly softly mode with WP7 so I doubt anyone but Nokia will be the first to offer higher levels of storage. The cloud though is absolutely not the blanket solution for everybody, though it works for some but for others the current storage options will definitely be insufficient.

Apple did perfectly well. They decided to remove slot for SD cards but logically they offered 32GB and 64GB versions of their devices in order to compensate the loss of expandable storage.
Microsoft removed the SD card slot but is unable to propose any hardware having more than 16GB (actually it is only 13.2GB once the OS is installed).
Sorry but this is not acceptable.
Apple has only one hardware and offers you the choice.
MS works with several OEM and fails to propose more than 16GB.
The lack of storage, the lack of alternative finally made me switch to Android.
Congrats Microsoft !

Good responses, thanks! I think the main reason that none of the OEMs has released a higher capacity model is sheer numbers.
With Android, even if the high capacity model sells 10% of the volume of the low capacity version, that's still a lot of units. With WP7, though, the sales of the single model probably aren't enough to justify making variations as that will just make it harder to sell to the distributor (the network, mainly).
Like you efjay, I'm hopeful that with Nokia on board and Mango being more like the sort of feature-rich software people demand volumes will slowly start to increase and the manufacturers will start to break their model ranges into more variants.
IMHO a MASSIVE problem with the distribution models as they are is exclusivity - with WP7, the absolute key is going to be making every device available everywhere, so as many people see it/try it/want it as conceivably possible. With exclusives, you're limiting distribution of an already limited distribution product, and that's going to harm growth.

arturobandini said:
Apple did perfectly well. They decided to remove slot for SD cards but logically they offered 32GB and 64GB versions of their devices in order to compensate the loss of expandable storage.
Microsoft removed the SD card slot but is unable to propose any hardware having more than 16GB (actually it is only 13.2GB once the OS is installed).
Sorry but this is not acceptable.
Apple has only one hardware and offers you the choice.
MS works with several OEM and fails to propose more than 16GB.
The lack of storage, the lack of alternative finally made me switch to Android.
Congrats Microsoft !
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I never said that Apple didn't do well. What I said, was that WP7 has to be targeted at a big, but specific type of consumer base to work well, and that most of that consumer base probably don't know or care how much storage they have - once the volumes increase, then there will be more variants with more storage, but right now there is no incentive to provide high capacity variants because the networks will price them out of the market and they won't sell to joe public.

andrewkeith5 said:
IMHO a MASSIVE problem with the distribution models as they are is exclusivity - with WP7, the absolute key is going to be making every device available everywhere, so as many people see it/try it/want it as conceivably possible. With exclusives, you're limiting distribution of an already limited distribution product, and that's going to harm growth.
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Difference here is the territory. In Europe (and the UK in particular) the Lumia devices will be on practically every carrier (except it seems O2 cos of their iphone love) and are being backed by a huge marketing campaign and incentives to customers and probably sales staff. You can even pre-order the Nokia phones which has never happened for any other WP7 device. In the US however, the story is radically different - T-Mobile has announced only 1 new device, nothing for Sprint and Verizon, which leaves at&t who will have 3 new devices and none of these devices are being given special treatment, rather they are just being thrown up on the carrier's website with no fanfare. With that kind of lopsided distribution and lack of promotion, along with the acknowledged bias, its no wonder WP7 struggles in the US, and that really is down to poor carrier support. US carriers have no problem stocking the same android model but WP7 is largely ignored. Until that changes there is no way WP7 is going to make nay headway, at least in the US.
I think though, that with Nokia's media push, brand recognition and seemingly well liked devices WP7 can do very well in Europe. It will be interesting to see the sales figures for the Lumia 800/710 this holiday compared to other handsets in Europe and the US. The US looks like it will continue to have a poor selection of WP7 devices and be dominated by ios and android.

andrewkeith5 said:
1) Most people will never use the cloud features on their phones, in reality. Fair enough, some people will require a phone with a larger storage capacity. It would be nice to see some phones with larger storage, but there is a massive problem: take a phone with big storage, or with storage size options, to a mobile network, and they'll just charge an absolute fortune for it, so nobody will buy it. That limits your market to SIM free devices- and maybe a few people will buy it then, but probably not enough to make it worth your while.
2) In the meantime, firstly why are videos so important to you? On a 4" screen my eyesight would be pretty screwed after about half an hour, which is why I have a 32GB Android tablet for videos, with a nice comfortable 10" screen, and it just stays in the bag that comes with me. On the odd occasion I don't have my tablet, then Youtube is normally more than enough and using it only occasionally doesn't hack out at my data plan.
3) to just have a smart playlist of tracks that I have starred, automatically synchronising 250 of my starred tracks to my phone at random- that way I have a nice selection of music I know I like, which in a way is better because I'm making better use of my collection, and I get nice surprises occasionally.
4) In summary, I just want to ask of everyone: Please just remember almost nobody is in the same precise position as you. It's great that there is a large range of people here with a range of opinions, but you have to understand that assuming that everybody is the same as you is just going to annoy people. There is nothing wrong with expressing that you would like a phone with more internal storage - but say it, then move on. Don't carry on saying it over and over. And if you don't want a phone with more internal storage, say it, then move on. Don't start arguments because you don't agree with people.
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Click to collapse
1) cloud features, like uploading audio, video, pictures, documents, (FILES) whenever, wherever ? this is extremely important. look at the protests, police brutality, natural disasters, and corruption caught by cell phone cameras. without an instant upload, the phone could be confiscated, the person punished (off record beating) and the public never the wiser. cloud = power, pricey for data or not, it is powerful.
2) videos are something fun to share, with family, friends, coworkers. renting a movie on youtube/itunes/whatever and showing the funny part to a friend is a blast, and stimulates more purchases/rents normally. self-shot videos are fun to share instantly, with other smart phones, via bluetooth or wifi... and guarantees there is a copy should you drop yours in the water/mud/etc. the option of streaming that movie to your 32Gb whatever-pad is awesome, and should be standard practice now. how are you going to watch the HD 3D video you just shot with your smart phone with poor vision , unless you can transfer it to the 32Gb somehow ? this is where wp7 fails, because of whatever reason they restricted moving files around and file access.
3) personally i only keep 2-3Gb of music on my phone. most of it is synced 2-3 times a month now, rented or bought from amazon/whoever, or just ripped from a cd. music is a non-issue, with a 32Gb microsd card. <--- this is another thing I can't understand microsoft crippling.
4) yep, understood. data plans are getting rediculously expensive by the month. 1Gb for $30 ? but then pack on tons of 'apps' that eat data 24/7 as oem junk ? all the US carriers are really sucking in this requard. they have the bandwidth, they have the infrastructure, but greeeeeeeeeed is creating a suck-zone of expense for anyone expecting "UNLIMITED" anything.

Of they support as cards the whole price argument falls on its face. Either support sd or offer more storage options. The cloud is terrible. It leads to worse battery life due to the constant downloading and it can be a terrible experience if reception isn't great where you are.
Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

I agree that there are some that may need more space but to spam articles and forums saying that the phone or generation of phones (even tho not complete yet) are going to fail because it doesn't meet that particular persons need is wrong. Take me for example, I'm disappointed that the T-mobile radar has only 8gb of space but I'm not going around saying it's going to be a failure because of it.
Sent from my T7575 using Board Express

JustinTV773 said:
I agree that there are some that may need more space but to spam articles and forums saying that the phone or generation of phones (even tho not complete yet) are going to fail because it doesn't meet that particular persons need is wrong. Take me for example, I'm disappointed that the T-mobile radar has only 8gb of space but I'm not going around saying it's going to be a failure because of it.
Sent from my T7575 using Board Express
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Click to collapse
The radar is a mid range device. Its comparable to focus flash not focus s.
The storage is a huge problem.
They pushing away early adapters with that, and thats their only marketing worth mentioning right now (their fanbois).
The focus s has < 13gb free on a fresh boot... ... ...
Again. With sd support, the low storage would be nonfactor.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

Right now the best and only option for over 32gb of storage is a first gen Focus. If you want storage get this phone for $0.01 from at&t and spend the money for a 32gb card. I really wanted to upgrade from my focus to something with a FFC but I guess I am a customer that wants too much. It is too much to want a phone with lots of storage AND a FFC. So that means I won't be spending any money on a phone any time soon I guess. Someone lost a sale.

To the OP: I do not carry my entire music collection on my phone. I do however have 15 GB of music on my phone and listen to at least 3 hours of it daily. Like others have mentioned. Apple offers more storage options so you can't say it isn't wanted. Secondly, why should the price be the same if OEMs aren't adding more storage?

bennyj71 said:
To the OP: I do not carry my entire music collection on my phone. I do however have 15 GB of music on my phone and listen to at least 3 hours of it daily. Like others have mentioned. Apple offers more storage options so you can't say it isn't wanted. Secondly, why should the price be the same if OEMs aren't adding more storage?
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This kind of makes my point....15GBs of music by most compression standards amounts to roughly 150 hrs of music, of which this user listens to "at least 3 hours" of daily. Really? And this is supposed to back up the argument for needing more space? Really? And what about video? How much USEFUL video do most of us actually carry around on our phones? If I have a video, that means that Ive probably already seen it and, unlike music, have no reason to be carrying it around with me on my phone. Like most people (I believe) the vast majority of videos that I watch on my phone are streamed i.e YouTube, Netflix etc.
(and as for Apple [on the 4s only] offering more storage meaning that there is suddenly a demand, do not forget that the 2 best selling phones in the world are iphones with 8 and 16 GBs of total storage)
My point is: Unless your phone is your ONLY piece of hardware i.e. NO computer etc., somebody who is complaining about needing 32GBs+ of media storage on their PHONE please in some kind of detail explain how you are actually making use of anywhere close to even 1/10th of it on a daily basis.

That's only music. What about video documents and large apps and games - some of which are 200mb to 2gb just by themselves.
I think your point leaves out obvious things that must be considered.
Storage is only a problem on this platform, and no other. Even feature phones support 32g sd cards these days...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

I love how all your facts include "I" somewhere in the sentence.
The low gb phones sell will because they're the cheapest skus. Cheaper always sells more.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

N8ter said:
That's only music. What about video documents and large apps and games - some of which are 200mb to 2gb just by themselves.
I think your point leaves out obvious things that must be considered.
Storage is only a problem on this platform, and no other. Even feature phones support 32g sd cards these days...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
Thats only music? Yes, as I pointed out, thats WAY WAY more music than you could actually have any realistic use for on your phone unless you were stranded on the moon for a year. And how many gigs of video (that you've most likey already seen) do you really carry around with you on your phone and make use of on a daily basis?
Like I challenged: if you really need 32GBs+ of storage explain how you actually (in detail) use it all up and actually make use of it.

N8ter said:
I love how all your facts include "I" somewhere in the sentence.
The low gb phones sell will because they're the cheapest skus. Cheaper always sells more.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
Nitpicking when he uses I to try to cover up your wrongness is quite funny. Cheapest sells more? Not necessarily, the 250GB Xbox 360 outsold the 4GB one even tho it was $100 cheaper. That's just one example.
Sent from my T7575 using Board Express

JustinTV773 said:
Nitpicking when he uses I to try to cover up your wrongness is quite funny. Cheapest sells more? Not necessarily, the 250GB Xbox 360 outsold the 4GB one even tho it was $100 cheaper. That's just one example.
Sent from my T7575 using Board Express
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Click to collapse
I tend to agree that 8 & 16GB phones sell more because of being cheaper. But when a person wants something larger, they will go to whatever is available instead of settling for the smaller capacities. Myself as an example. When I bought my iPhone 4, I originally bought a 16GB because it was $100 cheaper and then started seeing how the games were filling it up rapidly after all of my music and pictures and other media were on it. I chose to return it for a 32GB model and even payed the return fee to get one.
I know there is a percentage of customers MS will lose out on because of the lower capacity phones they are choosing to stay with. Apple looks to get all customers rather than a majority who may be satisfied with 8 or 16GB.

There will be a percentage of customers that Microsoft lose out on, but I guess they know that, they are not stupid.
Sent from my TITAN X310e using Board Express

[Q]Worry about slow Development?

So I am sure I am not the only person who has (or had) a Vibrant. I am sure the development that is being done on the SGS2 is quality, but there isn't much in the way of quantity (which doesn't always mean much). Am I justified at all in worrying about all this? Does everyone feel satisfied with the amount of development going on for what is still a relatively new phone?
I was considering the Galaxy Nexus, just for the faster updates and solidarity (as opposed to having a different CPU than other similar phones), however the SGS2 hardware is tempting.
I am trying to tell myself that with ICS I can hang onto my Vibrant a bit longer to wait for more options and such, but I want a new phone so bad, and right now the only obvious phone I can pick up easily is the GS2. I am just hesitant after the fiasco with the Vibrant. It's also been so long that it seems like I could wait it out just a tiny bit longer and get the next gen stuff.
(I know the argument about how you can always wait longer, but it has been months since the GS2 landed in the US and it will probably be a month before I am ready to buy a new phone with the holiday season upon us)

Unless you are willing to buy a Euro version of the Nexus outright, you'll be waiting atleast several months for it to be released by tmo. Not to mention if it comes spec'd the same as the vzw version, you won't have expandable memory. Cyanogen is actively devving for this phone and once we get ICS, I think it will be very competitive with the GN.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using XDA App

What about the low resolution of the phone? Can that be addressed by a new ROM or ICS?

No it can't be changed. You can mess with the density to make it look HD but I don't notice anything "low" about our resolution as it is. I love this phone.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using XDA App

It is by no means low resolution.
Sent from my telegraph on steroids

rbenz said:
What about the low resolution of the phone? Can that be addressed by a new ROM or ICS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
all the HD games tittle you see advertized are for our current resolution 480x800
480x800 has been considered HD for the longest time, for the past 3 years. it is a standard that all game developer codes for
if you read over the Galaxy Nexus forum the 720 resolution is causing havok on a lot of apps and games...
so go figure
on a side note, here some food for thoughts
DVD quality = 480x800
Blueray 1.0 quality = 720x1280
Blueray 2.0 quality = 1280x1080

degeneration said:
I was considering the Galaxy Nexus, just for the faster updates and solidarity (as opposed to having a different CPU than other similar phones), however the SGS2 hardware is tempting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
read this while you are still considering it http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1362556
also there's an existing topic about SGN vs SGS2 T989 right here in the forum http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1372420

Galaxy nexus will be released in 3 days. I'm also tempted in using buyers remorse for the nexus. The sgs2 hardware is better IMHO. We'll be getting ics. Early 2012 we just gotta wait for a driver leak.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium

well in Canada the GN is going to be released tomorrow http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=19918706
but i'm not crazy enough to go line up for the first day of launch
specially when i'm not even in the mood to get that bug ridden phone, perhaps when they add microSD and a Quad core SOC to it, i'll probably go for it

To me it came down to cost. I had been waiting to upgrade my vibrant to the nexus prime forever. But word is that the nexus prime will cost $299 with full discount which means not only will I have to pay more per month to switch to verizon (currently paying $50 a month for unlimited with no contract), I would also have to pay more out of pocket for the initial device purchase (Ended up getting my GS2 for $380 new in box still no contract from craigslist)
That finally pushed me to go ahead and get a GS2.
I am still very concerned about ICS support. I also felt like the vibrant got screwed on gingerbread (GPS, bluetooth, and camera still suck on GB roms) so I am extremely worried about how ICS will end up. But I am fairly confident that ICS will eventually be released for the device officially (it will be later than they claim)

Something people overlook is that the Galaxy S2 is THE best selling Android phone of all time. That means that it's going to be the de facto for Android development for some time to come. Developers will want to make apps that run well specifically on this phone. Remember, just because faster, more powerful phones are on the horizon doesn't mean that the GS2 will be obsolete any time soon.
I have no doubt that it will also be an overall better phone than the Nexus once it gets ICS. Yes the 720p display on the Nexus is nice, but unnecessary. It's a 4.65 inch screen, for Pete's sake. If you doubt the GS2 screen, just go to your local t-mobile shop and pick one up. Your doubts will be put to rest.

OriginalMemnock said:
Something people overlook is that the Galaxy S2 is THE best selling Android phone of all time. That means that it's going to be the de facto for Android development for some time to come. Developers will want to make apps that run well specifically on this phone. Remember, just because faster, more powerful phones are on the horizon doesn't mean that the GS2 will be obsolete any time soon.
I have no doubt that it will also be an overall better phone than the Nexus once it gets ICS. Yes the 720p display on the Nexus is nice, but unnecessary. It's a 4.65 inch screen, for Pete's sake. If you doubt the GS2 screen, just go to your local t-mobile shop and pick one up. Your doubts will be put to rest.
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Click to collapse
I think you mean "THE Galaxy S2", on Tmobile we find ourselves with a significantly different phone yet again. At least this time there is only one on Tmobile. However with different processors on our phones it won't be as simple to translate development over (however being that its a Qualcomm it seems likely that it will be pretty simple all the same, but I have no idea).
My point was it doesn't matter what carrier you are on or what country you are in if I get a GSM GN (possibly excluding VZW).
I know that people here are going to probably defend the SGS2 because that's what they have, but no one has really answered my question and instead commented on my thoughts.
There doesn't seem to be a LOT of development (I have the assumption based on the opinions that what is there is high quality though).
Furthermore, I am not on contract, so I get no discounts on phones, making the GN only about 100 bucks more than the SGS2.
Pointing out the GN flaws is a good call, I haven't been keeping up with that and mostly watching this forum as, like I mentioned, the appeal that I can walk on down to the store and get one makes it a possible buy.
The SD card is something I would prefer, but I don't need. I was prepared to go down to 16gb but hoping for a 32gb.
The major appeal is how many people are still happy with their Nexus S. The Nexus phones just have a longer life span because they come out about once a year and Google supports them.
Some other phones get a similar treatment, but it seems to be a higher risk. Samsung has already mentioned they are working on the SGS3, meaning SGS3 updates will come even slower (I presume though that there is probably still AT LEAST most of a year before we start to see them). I just like the idea of carrying around a little Google baby.
And I am not saying anything bad about the SGS2, I am just skeptical after the whole Vibrant thing (or the SGS in general since as far as I heard GB isn't on most devices, and those that got it got it way late). The hardware looks amazing, and honestly I like the idea of the captive buttons vs only virtual buttons (I like my menu button tyvm). If CM9 is out and I haven't upgraded I will probably go for the SGS2 and put CM9 on it right away, but otherwise I will be worried about the software. Seems like it took a little hollering to get CM support (I could be misunderstanding that thread), so what happens with CM10+? I suppose there will be developers who will porting stuff over, probably.
So that's that. I figure most of this post is futile any way as it seems people get a little defensive about their choices and get upset when you make counter points. I suppose that is somewhat helpful though as it does still compare things, just one sided.
I will end up probably reading one thing online somewhere that will randomly cause me to make up my mind and then just be blissfully ignorant of what I am missing. So oh wells. Thanks for the input so far guys.

degeneration said:
I think you mean "THE Galaxy S2", on Tmobile we find ourselves with a significantly different phone yet again. At least this time there is only one on Tmobile. However with different processors on our phones it won't be as simple to translate development over (however being that its a Qualcomm it seems likely that it will be pretty simple all the same, but I have no idea).
My point was it doesn't matter what carrier you are on or what country you are in if I get a GSM GN (possibly excluding VZW).
I know that people here are going to probably defend the SGS2 because that's what they have, but no one has really answered my question and instead commented on my thoughts.
There doesn't seem to be a LOT of development (I have the assumption based on the opinions that what is there is high quality though).
Furthermore, I am not on contract, so I get no discounts on phones, making the GN only about 100 bucks more than the SGS2.
Pointing out the GN flaws is a good call, I haven't been keeping up with that and mostly watching this forum as, like I mentioned, the appeal that I can walk on down to the store and get one makes it a possible buy.
The SD card is something I would prefer, but I don't need. I was prepared to go down to 16gb but hoping for a 32gb.
The major appeal is how many people are still happy with their Nexus S. The Nexus phones just have a longer life span because they come out about once a year and Google supports them.
Some other phones get a similar treatment, but it seems to be a higher risk. Samsung has already mentioned they are working on the SGS3, meaning SGS3 updates will come even slower (I presume though that there is probably still AT LEAST most of a year before we start to see them). I just like the idea of carrying around a little Google baby.
And I am not saying anything bad about the SGS2, I am just skeptical after the whole Vibrant thing (or the SGS in general since as far as I heard GB isn't on most devices, and those that got it got it way late). The hardware looks amazing, and honestly I like the idea of the captive buttons vs only virtual buttons (I like my menu button tyvm). If CM9 is out and I haven't upgraded I will probably go for the SGS2 and put CM9 on it right away, but otherwise I will be worried about the software. Seems like it took a little hollering to get CM support (I could be misunderstanding that thread), so what happens with CM10+? I suppose there will be developers who will porting stuff over, probably.
So that's that. I figure most of this post is futile any way as it seems people get a little defensive about their choices and get upset when you make counter points. I suppose that is somewhat helpful though as it does still compare things, just one sided.
I will end up probably reading one thing online somewhere that will randomly cause me to make up my mind and then just be blissfully ignorant of what I am missing. So oh wells. Thanks for the input so far guys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I realize the hardware is different among the different carrier GS2's. What I was referring to is the overall specifications (dual core processor ~ 1.2-1.5 ghz, 1gig of ram, etc.) when I mentioned the developer support.
In regards to your concern about the screen, I can only tell you that I did a lot of shopping around, testing out different phones and the GS2 screen does not disappoint. IMO, it is overall better than the ones found in the Razr and Rezound, which both offer higher resolutions, so keep in mind that resolution isn't everything.
At this point just wait a couple days until the Nexus is out and give it a hands on. Until you have the device in your hand, you can't really tell how it's going to taste to you. I was infatuated with the Motorola Razr until I actually held one in my hand and hated just about everything about it. The super-thin profile felt terrible in my hands, the noticeable pixels on the screen were distracting, it got way too hot to hold up to my ear, other than the speakers and software (I actually like Moto-blur), it was a complete failure to me. So you never know until you try it.

OriginalMemnock said:
I realize the hardware is different among the different carrier GS2's. What I was referring to is the overall specifications (dual core processor ~ 1.2-1.5 ghz, 1gig of ram, etc.) when I mentioned the developer support.
In regards to your concern about the screen, I can only tell you that I did a lot of shopping around, testing out different phones and the GS2 screen does not disappoint. IMO, it is overall better than the ones found in the Razr and Rezound, which both offer higher resolutions, so keep in mind that resolution isn't everything.
At this point just wait a couple days until the Nexus is out and give it a hands on. Until you have the device in your hand, you can't really tell how it's going to taste to you. I was infatuated with the Motorola Razr until I actually held one in my hand and hated just about everything about it. The super-thin profile felt terrible in my hands, the noticeable pixels on the screen were distracting, it got way too hot to hold up to my ear, other than the speakers and software (I actually like Moto-blur), it was a complete failure to me. So you never know until you try it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, but someone else mentioned the screen, not me. I am not worried about the screen, it would have the same resolution as my current phone so I wouldn't know the difference.
Any way, you may have understood this but it was ambiguous: Yes I know the hardware specs are nice (I believe I stated that they were potentially better) but more people would have the exact same GN as opposed to people with the exact same SGS2. It might not matter though, I have no developing experience (I considered it, but I barely passed my Java course 6 years ago) so I might be wrong in thinking that it will be hard to work with stuff for the international one and put it on the tmobile version. I mean it might be simple if it's just drivers since qualcomm drivers would not be hard to find.
Furthermore, I am already being spoiled with ICS and just want it now.
The thing is, the reason I ask here instead of in the GN forum is that I really want to want the SGS2 (well, and people here have looked as the GN where as people there might have never looked at -specifically- the tmobile sgs2). I am actually likely to walk into a tmobile store and walk out with a phone over the winter break, and I don't think I would be able to help myself if there was a stable ICS rom by then.
BUT the fact that Nexuses last so long makes me wonder if I will be whimpering about how I could have got one and didn't, then again the next nexus will be starting to solidify by then.

Regarding the CM10 bit...
The good news is that once a Device is officially in a previous generation of CM, for example all devices on CM6 are automatically included in CM7 and when CM9 is out, all the CM7 devices will get CM9
so in a way, it's a better guaranteed than stock ICS from Google which only goes as far back as 1 year of support, even the Nexus ONE got removed from Google's support list, in the end the Dev had to make their own PORT / build of ICS for Nexus One, as the regular ICS is not hardware compatible according to Google.
so if our device gets supported officially in CM7 and CM9, it will automatically be included in CM10

AllGamer said:
Regarding the CM10 bit...
The good news is that once a Device is officially in a previous generation of CM, for example all devices on CM6 are automatically included in CM7 and when CM9 is out, all the CM7 devices will get CM9
so in a way, it's a better guaranteed than stock ICS from Google which only goes as far back as 1 year of support, even the Nexus ONE got removed from Google's support list, in the end the Dev had to make their own PORT / build of ICS for Nexus One, as the regular ICS is not hardware compatible according to Google.
so if our device gets supported officially in CM7 and CM9, it will automatically be included in CM10
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then how come my G1 is only unofficially supported in cm7? They can stop supporting something, they might not, but they can. And if they just stop using a device, they aren't going to be able to continue working on it. For instance I heard rumor that the Vibrant will no longer be officially supported, and it only got 7/7.1...
What they say is as long as they support it they will continue to do what they can, but they do drop support on phones as they have to over time.

additional info for rbenz
https://plus.google.com/105051985738280261832/posts/2FXDCz8x93s
As device screen resolution goes up, achieving a 60fps UI is closely related to GPU speed and especially the GPU’s memory bus bandwidth. In fact, if you want to get an idea of the performance of a piece of hardware, always pay close attention to the memory bus bandwidth. There are plenty of times where the CPU (especially with those wonderful NEON instructions) can go a lot faster than the memory bus.​
in that scenario i see more benefit to have 800x480 than the newer higher resolutions

i can understand your feeling completely
It would seem like everybody is either dodging or are too wrapped around the Euro-GS2 to answer your question...i myself have been wondering if there is going to be more custom roms, kernels & etc...i've heard that team whiskey & CM should be cooking roms real soon for the t-mobile galaxy s2. I do believe all this waiting is related to the qualcomm chip in the phone versus the exynos processor in all the other gs2 variants...I just hope this isn't gonna be like theyre doing just bc they don't wanna leave the t-mobile one out of development...but if you do test out the galaxy nexus and like it then go with it, one thing is true about those nexus phones, they are always the first to get those updates...it really comes down to what you want to do, wait a little bit for more roms or etc.

degeneration said:
Then how come my G1 is only unofficially supported in cm7? They can stop supporting something, they might not, but they can. And if they just stop using a device, they aren't going to be able to continue working on it. For instance I heard rumor that the Vibrant will no longer be officially supported, and it only got 7/7.1...
What they say is as long as they support it they will continue to do what they can, but they do drop support on phones as they have to over time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have reservations strong enough that I would say dont get the SGSII, you wont be fully happy. Based on what you said, you should buy the unlocked galaxy nexus they are selling now ($800), or wait for the verizon version. You may regret not getting the SGSII, but I would hardly think that the Nexus would be significantly worse. If anything you would just regret paying more for a similar phone.

agree re: getting SGN instead of SGS2
specially when the OP did mention the lack of SD card is not a biggie
for me the lack of SD card was a major deal breaker, so the T989 was my only choice of good phone for AWS 1700+2100 networks

And we thought ICS under Touchwiz looked bad.... Check this out:

An early leak of HTC's Sense 3.5 running on (over) ICS....
http://goo.gl/JaIyb
(I had to watch quite a bit of this just to make sure it WAS Android 4 running on that phone.)
IMO, Samsung kinda gets a small pass because Touchwiz isn't THAT intrusive, andI just gotta ask...
What in the world is HTC thinking?
^That "interpretation" of ICS is going to sell about zero point zero phones for them in the future.
(and no, I don't even know what language this is in, and the shaky video seems to be just that-not Rom related... Apparently, this build was just released for the Sensation, and most everything works on it, or so I've read.
P.S. : Moderators:
I posted this here, because I know that most of us prolly have owned an HTC device in the past, and have our own opinions about Sense, and that some people might find it interesting.
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My balls just went up into my stomach.

These oems need to wake up.
There's absolutely no need to skin ics.
Ruins everything Google is trying to do

This looks awful!
Just for the record, the rom is in Finnish.

WTF?! Why would they do that. I haven't owned an Evo but it looks like Sense does now minus swiping apps to kill them. Maybe they are just sticking with the formula that has worked for them in the past. Is this real and not some port hackenstein build?
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Yeah, sense 1.0 was great during android 1.x-2.1, now its not needed and slows up development for stock and aftermarket. Google should put their foot down with 4.1 - no vendor skins. Let the hardware options speak for themselves. Acer/Dell/HP don't skin W7 when they deploy laptops and still are able to distinguish themselves. Plus with ICS apparently supporting more secure exchange environments, AOSP finally is an option for me.

Lol looks like sense on GB, touchwiz is much lighter and hopefully they go with a modded stock launcher instead of twlauncher 4.0. Anything beats Rosie either way
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mattykinsx said:
These oems need to wake up.
There's absolutely no need to skin ics.
Ruins everything Google is trying to do
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it'll only take one time for it to be proven how it could work as a business model:
If HTC would say, release their next major device like this:
"The HTC Edge, featuring the world's first quad-core processor in a mobile phone, Google's newest version of Android 4.0, and HTC's very own Sense 4.errrrrrrrrrr."
"Scratch that.^"
"Featuring ONLY Google's newest version of Android 4.0, in the spotlight, for you to enjoy the fastest, smoothest, Android Experience possible. "
"Only from HTC."
(I'd go buy that **** in a heartbeat.)
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Wow, way to ruin a good thing. Much rather have TW than that. Why even skin a good thing anyway???WHY????

Imagine buying the newest HTC phone with ICS on it without knowing anything about what to expect with the newest version of Sense:
You leave Best Buy or wherever on launch day, after waiting in line all morning.... You get to your car, and you're kinda shaking with excitement as the phone boots up, you activate it, and you sign into your gmail....
You get the "Your google account is now linked to this device" message and you hit the home button to check things out....
Next, you:
...... (are confused...)
...... wut.
...... "Hold up, what is th... "
...... (flings homescreen, trying to find SOMETHING that resembles what you've seen on the Gnex...)
..... (re-checks Android version #, just to be sure.)
..... (looks around, just to make sure you aren't on "Punk'd")
..... (lastly, screams with rage and slams new phone onto concrete.)
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It's looked the same since FroYo. lol
Never liked Sense to be honest. TW atleast changes the status bar every version.

I use to like Sense for a while now i cant even think of owning an HTC phone with out rooting it and changing it. Touch Wiz was awful but using it on my ET4G i think i got use to it and now i really think it actually ok but nothing beats Android aosp.

I like whatever you're theming haha
Overstew said:
It's looked the same since FroYo. lol
Never liked Sense to be honest. TW atleast changes the status bar every version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

xlGmanlx said:
I like whatever you're theming haha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+ 1 Overstew has great taste and epic skills
Sent from my E4GT

As stupid as it is until the day El Goog puts it's foot down on UI standardization this will continue to happen with Motoblur, Touchwiz and--the worst offender--Sense. I'm sure there are more I'm not aware of (LG I'm looking at you).
The manufacturer sees this as another way to brand their device, make it unique...stand out from the legions of other Android phones. HTC (and to a much tinier degree Samsung) is also trying to set up their own ecosystem on the side by providing services that either they get a cut of (whatever HTCs movie service is called, I forget) or they get ad revenue/monetizable user data. HTC obviously seems especially furiously jealous of Apple's vertical integration provided by not just building the phone (which HTC does), but also the whole of the operating system (which Sense is an attempt to do) and the app store/itunes (which their movie service--and I'm sure music and market etc are in the making)....and nearly everybody is in the user-data market.
Frankly, from a purely business point-of-view, you can't blame these companies for at least trying. I don't have to like it...and I don't. But the vast majority of people don't notice let alone care. I don't actually think the differentiation thing is working for them at all. There is not a single non-geek that I know that has purchased a device just because of the UI overlay or any of the integration they may provide.
I also have not known a single non-geek to ever get a different brand of phone and even so much as mention a difference between an OG Droid and an HTC anything....so, I'm not so sure that a> people would even miss it and more importantly b> that it is even working. But, given that they don't appear to be losing anything for trying they will likely not stop until Google says 'knock it off', but, I doubt they will...while it seems unlikely Google wouldn't want to scare a major OEM off of the platform. Sense on WinMo is nearly indistinguishable from Android to 99% of all people. The same would go for Touchwiz on Bada....WebOS is now open source too, I believe.

Did I watch the same video as everyone else? Because what I saw looked fine. Jaw-dropping? No. Hideous? Also, no. It's a decent, cohesive skin that keeps HTC's look while maintaining all the functionality. Looks fine. I prefer a cleaner look, but I wouldn't be pissed off by it.

daneurysm said:
As stupid as it is until the day El Goog puts it's foot down on UI standardization this will continue to happen with Motoblur, Touchwiz and--the worst offender--Sense. I'm sure there are more I'm not aware of (LG I'm looking at you).
The manufacturer sees this as another way to brand their device, make it unique...stand out from the legions of other Android phones. HTC (and to a much tinier degree Samsung) is also trying to set up their own ecosystem on the side by providing services that either they get a cut of (whatever HTCs movie service is called, I forget) or they get ad revenue/monetizable user data. HTC obviously seems especially furiously jealous of Apple's vertical integration provided by not just building the phone (which HTC does), but also the whole of the operating system (which Sense is an attempt to do) and the app store/itunes (which their movie service--and I'm sure music and market etc are in the making)....and nearly everybody is in the user-data market.
Frankly, from a purely business point-of-view, you can't blame these companies for at least trying. I don't have to like it...and I don't. But the vast majority of people don't notice let alone care. I don't actually think the differentiation thing is working for them at all. There is not a single non-geek that I know that has purchased a device just because of the UI overlay or any of the integration they may provide.
I also have not known a single non-geek to ever get a different brand of phone and even so much as mention a difference between an OG Droid and an HTC anything....so, I'm not so sure that a> people would even miss it and more importantly b> that it is even working. But, given that they don't appear to be losing anything for trying they will likely not stop until Google says 'knock it off', but, I doubt they will...while it seems unlikely Google wouldn't want to scare a major OEM off of the platform. Sense on WinMo is nearly indistinguishable from Android to 99% of all people. The same would go for Touchwiz on Bada....WebOS is now open source too, I believe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Taken in a different context, you could very well have just described the effectiveness (or lack there of) of advertising...lol
Honestly, i don't see why they don't just compete in the hardware market? I mean, in all honesty, that's what's driving the smartphone explosion, not manufacturer skins.
Manufacturer software, though, that's an entirely different story. Like Samsung adding all-share. But this is easily done (manufacturers adding these bits of functionality) without messing with the core system interface, and you'd end up in a better scenario: easier and faster software upgrades
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TurboFool said:
Did I watch the same video as everyone else? Because what I saw looked fine. Jaw-dropping? No. Hideous? Also, no. It's a decent, cohesive skin that keeps HTC's look while maintaining all the functionality. Looks fine. I prefer a cleaner look, but I wouldn't be pissed off by it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. Honestly to me, with ICS all the vendor skins look more and more like a custom launcher and some widgets for added value. The settings and multitasking look very similar to ICS. I think the fact that we are seeing vendor builds on ICS so soon after launch is indicative of the similarity to the stock OS.
Really, we shouldn't be asking for Google to lock anything down user interface wise as that's just one step closer to apple. If Google locked out oems, they would have to stop users from using custom launchers as well. The only thing Google should mandate is that vendors release full source code (including proprietary drivers) for any android release. That would do a lot to clean up problems, if vendors knew their code was actually getting looked at by millions of eyes.
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I couldn't watch more than a minute of that video. I'm sooooo turned off by Sense after having been on the Evo 4G. I jumped on the AOSP train and never got off. I guess these phone companies feel the need to differentiate themselves from the pack. They do so by throwing their ugly UI on top of android OS.

squshy 7 said:
Taken in a different context, you could very well have just described the effectiveness (or lack there of) of advertising...lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Given that Google is at the epicenter of this peculiar universe that may well be the actual context. Always remember that Google is an advertising company, first and foremost. The, nearly 100% free, awesome technology is just a very fortunate side effect.
Honestly, i don't see why they don't just compete in the hardware market? I mean, in all honesty, that's what's driving the smartphone explosion, not manufacturer skins.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If they did that they would have absolutely nothing differentiating the different phones besides price, for the most part...and that's a race to the bottom. Nobody wants that. It's like the difference between Apple's margins and everybody elses.
I'm not entirely convinced that we aren't already on a race to the bottom. Note my earlier comments on the lack of effectiveness of this type of branding to most people. (There are Sense fanboys, Touchwiz enthusiasts and even, shudder, Motoblur fans).
If they want to be Apple so bad why not go it alone and make your own damn OS and marketplace....oh yeah, that boat sailed 5 years ago. Apple won't license iOS. Android is king of the commodity currently. This is all they really can do.
Manufacturer software, though, that's an entirely different story. Like Samsung adding all-share. But this is easily done (manufacturers adding these bits of functionality) without messing with the core system interface, and you'd end up in a better scenario: easier and faster software upgrades
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
100% Agreed. I think in a couple years when the dust settles we will probably see exactly that happen. Once Android stops getting "major updates" constantly. Once manufacturers stop pumping out a giant range of phones constantly and just make one really awesome flagship phone in 2 or 3 sizes and let the last model of really-awesome-phone be the second tier model instead of ****ting up the store fronts with a nonstop range of brand new crap. Once Apple has been squished back into their extremely profitable but small niche corner (just like with the Mac VS PC in the 80's). Once the 'next big thing' comes along that blows minds and changes and integrates society and technology just a little more.
Until then every Android handset maker is going to try to make a unique image and name for their small shop in the mall food-court that is the current Android landscape. lol
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Insider News from Samsung Korea internal situation...

Source: Korea Samsung Headquarters clerk (from my country) sharing with his friend.
Reporting:
- Several High positioned personal resignations.
- The Firm stands strong and united, instead of despairing over the situation.
- Samsung's Engineers are working overtime over a new technology that will revolutionize the smartphone market. Priorly, this technology was supposed to be targeted for the following years. But after the Note 7 disaster, they decided to push it for the next Smartphone release.
----------
Opinion: Sounds legit. Just wanted to share the news. Nothing official of course.

I guess these "high positioned personnel" are the ones who pushed for batteries to be made by Samsung SDI. What makes it even more disappointing is, the replacement units are still SDI batteries. While we've heard nothing from the China region units with ATL batteries.
Samsung should shut their factory down and just stick with the winning formula.
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Bad idea to start pushing for quick new technology. Look at the disaster the Note 7 was because it was rushed.

B3501 said:
Bad idea to start pushing for quick new technology. Look at the disaster the Note 7 was because it was rushed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed.
Instead they should solidify their present technology like avoiding explosions...

B3501 said:
Bad idea to start pushing for quick new technology. Look at the disaster the Note 7 was because it was rushed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you know this? You don't. We don't know the cause yet.

Well! Tell them to fu** ing explain to us what was it they messed up so bad to infringe our personal property, safety and make us a ton of expences we will never get back!! Tell them they should be convincingnus they are not incompetent to make electronisc anymore in the first place!!

Its not the batteries that are causing the exploding. Its the tweaking of the software that controls the processor to run fast charging. Samsung tried to get a faster charge than all previous devices and screwed the pooch on the software. They can probably issue a software/firmware update but people will not be happy and it may not be a permanent fix.
I have turned fast charging off via the cable and wireless. I have zero over heating problems, zero lag issues, phone is acting like a phone. the real catch is concealing it when traveling on a plane etc.... That is the hard part. I will probably turn my Note 3 into my travel device for music and games and such. Like a glorified Android iPod touch. Ill just turn disable to mobile data and phone stuff, hide the sim card removed icon.
A lot of work still. Damnit Samsung.....

My note 7's (both the original and the replacement) have worked basically perfectly. They don't overheat, don't lag, really not a single problem. The Note 7 is by far the best overall smartphone made to date. Best display, best display to overall size ratio, best camera, waterproof, etc. Only two issues I would say are the edge display which makes a tempered screen protector impossible and a so-so external speaker. And of course the kicker - the non-removable battery. Had they just made it with a removable battery this issue would have not been a phone-killer. It is sad that the best phone ever made to date is killed off like this. And we still have no definitive answer to what is the problem? Seems incomprehensible.

htusa said:
Its not the batteries that are causing the exploding. Its the tweaking of the software that controls the processor to run fast charging. Samsung tried to get a faster charge than all previous devices and screwed the pooch on the software. They can probably issue a software/firmware update but people will not be happy and it may not be a permanent fix.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That sounds like speculation. These devices have been melting without being charged. We don't even know if Samsung knows what the actual problem is. Hopefully it all comes out so we get some reassurance about their next phones.

I read a lil bit ago that they didn't know what the actual problem was which is why they decided to kill it. They had over 100 people testing them round the clock and could not duplicate the issue of causing one to smoke/catch fire... of course though they were an anonymous
person close to the situation.
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"I think the phone, processor, get hot and bothered in its close quarters and makes the already temperamental battery mad and it throws a tantrum..."
* I heard this while hiding in a garbage pail in an undisclosed location.

Itchiee said:
"I think the phone, processor, get hot and bothered in its close quarters and makes the already temperamental battery mad and it throws a tantrum..."
* I heard this while hiding in a garbage pail in an undisclosed location.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

htusa said:
the real catch is concealing it when traveling on a plane etc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look, I get it, I want to keep my phone as well, and I am not sure what I will do. But to fly with it, while you base the rest on rumors, is plain irresponsible. What you do at home is your business, but getting on a plane with several hundred passengers and a possibly defective phone isn't (there's literally no way for you to tell whether your phone is safe or not). Samsung did after all improve the replacements as they are reportedly catching fire without being charged.