Develop Bugs

[Q] NFC Chip

I'm a bit confused. What exactly does this NFC chip do? What can I use it for on the daily? What apps are recommended for the chip?

right now nothing useful
after ICS 4.0 then we actually get to use it more often

Not 100% sure, but it might be useful for the latest version of Paypal. It seems to support NFC for transfers between friends.
Sent from my SGH-T989D using xda premium

NFC (Near Field Communications) will allow you to pay for items via your phone instead of your wallet. Many foreign countries have already accepted their phones as credit cards replacements; Japan for example.
But, it does more than just pay for items. QR codes that we just started using, requires you to use the camera and it will bring you to a site or direct you to an advertisement. With NFC, you can simply hold your phone to an advertisement (that is NFC capable) and it will divert you to site/advertisement. If you are in the U.S, you can go to your nearest T-Mobile store and they should have a NFC sticker you can try it out on.

but in North America, we barely have any place that is actually using it for mainstream
it's such a rare view to ever see or find anything with a NFC tag to scan

We are still catching up. I hear in Japan you can walk up to a soda machine and buy a soda with your phone.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium

http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/1...rt-tablet-support-ui-design-changes-and-more/

AllGamer said:
but in North America, we barely have any place that is actually using it for mainstream
it's such a rare view to ever see or find anything with a NFC tag to scan
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Yeah, it's understandable why though. We are way behind in terms of technology compared to other countries. Just about 6 years ago, we didn't even have 3G yet, but we are slowly catching up.
NFC is not garnering alot of attention because Americans are so afraid of the consequences of such technology. They are worried about people stealing information through NFC or hacking their accounts through NFC, but many don't understand that it is much easier to pick pocket your wallet or rob you than it is to hack your phone to steal your accounts.
Hopefully we'll catch up soon though Google Wallet is currently testing NFC in various markets and offering a 10$ credit for you to buy anything in the store they are testing it in.

I think people don't realize is they have been using NFC for years with Paypass, now Paywave, and now Interac Flash is coming out based on the same tech.
Gas stations have been using it too like Petro Canada ... actually most places I've been too here in Canada have NFC pay terminals so we just need Google Wallet to be available here and we can go nuts.

I don't think that's NFC, the ones that are used in Credit cards are RFID.

Sorry if this seems like a dumb question, but something I was curious about...
Though it's still in the "anticipated" technology phase, there's a lot of buzz regarding NFC with various review sites praising or criticizing newly released phones for the inclusion or lack of NFC respectively.
NFC, like any other communications technology, needs both the hardware and software to control it, right? Our SGS2's seem to have the NFC "chips" (not sure what the appropriate term for the hardware is) in the battery (not just based on what's written on the battery, but what the T-Mo SGS2 manual indicates).
Based on this, couldn't any phone out there with a user-replaceable battery (read: any non-Apple phone) be pretty easily upgradable with a replacement battery pack and firmware update in the future? If that's the case, it doesn't seem like so much should be read into whether a phone launches with NFC capability or not.
But like I said, I don't know much about the technical aspects, so I might just sound like a moron.

floot_roops said:
Sorry if this seems like a dumb question, but something I was curious about...
Though it's still in the "anticipated" technology phase, there's a lot of buzz regarding NFC with various review sites praising or criticizing newly released phones for the inclusion or lack of NFC respectively.
NFC, like any other communications technology, needs both the hardware and software to control it, right? Our SGS2's seem to have the NFC "chips" (not sure what the appropriate term for the hardware is) in the battery (not just based on what's written on the battery, but what the T-Mo SGS2 manual indicates).
Based on this, couldn't any phone out there with a user-replaceable battery (read: any non-Apple phone) be pretty easily upgradable with a replacement battery pack and firmware update in the future? If that's the case, it doesn't seem like so much should be read into whether a phone launches with NFC capability or not.
But like I said, I don't know much about the technical aspects, so I might just sound like a moron.
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The NFC chip requires it to be integrated into the phone in order for it to work. The NFC on the battery most likely states that it is optimized for NFC, I don't think there is a NFC chip inside the battery.

There are already 2-3 threads discussing NFC in this forum. One of them includes some fairly detailed testing about what is working atm.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk

DyingBlade said:
The NFC chip requires it to be integrated into the phone in order for it to work. The NFC on the battery most likely states that it is optimized for NFC, I don't think there is a NFC chip inside the battery.
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if you replace the battery with another one that does not have NFC, your NFC option will get greyed out in Settings
so they battery might not be the NFC chip itself, but might very well behave like the antennae as found on the Nexus S battery door

I didn't know if I should start a new trad or ask here, but didn't want to clutter the forum.
So I'm seeing that they are making a big deal with the Galaxy Nexus for Verizon on not having Google Wallet in it.
My question is-
Is it part of ICS?
If not any idea of when it will be release?
Will it work on our phones since it has a NFC chip?
Not that there is alot of places to use it at, but it would be fun to have for the few places to show off, lol.

Wallet doesn't seem like part of ICS
already played with ICS on many devices, and don't see wallet included
you can always install the hacked version manually
yes it works

Link please
Powered by the SGSII....

last i saw it, it was on the Nexus S forum

the new Facebook app suppose to support tap to add friend with NFC, but I don't have any friend with NFC to try with.

AllGamer said:
last i saw it, it was on the Nexus S forum
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Click to collapse
Ok thanks, Ill take a look.
Powered by the SGSII....

Is it at all possible to use the NFC to emulate RFID cards?

One of the main selling points of the Galaxy Nexus for me is NFC. Contactless payments are starting to pop up everywhere here in London, and when Apple releases an NFC-enabled phone I'm sure progress will be increased massively.
Anyways, my question is whether it is possible to use the NFC of the Nexus to scan my RFID building entry card, save the details as a profile and then emulate the card in order to get me into the building using just my phone?
Is there any software like this? Would it even be ethically sound to release such software?

From my understanding, this is possible. However, I would imagine the data on your building entry card would have some sort of encryption.

WhiterThanWhite said:
One of the main selling points of the Galaxy Nexus for me is NFC. Contactless payments are starting to pop up everywhere here in London, and when Apple releases an NFC-enabled phone I'm sure progress will be increased massively.
Anyways, my question is whether it is possible to use the NFC of the Nexus to scan my RFID building entry card, save the details as a profile and then emulate the card in order to get me into the building using just my phone?
Is there any software like this? Would it even be ethically sound to release such software?
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Click to collapse
Card emulation is not part of the SDK and not currently available.
Sent from my Nexus S using xda premium

Gutted. Would have been handy
Sent from my iPad 2 using Tapatalk

It's not possible for a very simple reason Nexus or any other NFC enabled phone cannot read a Visa PayWave or Mastercard PayPass card just like that. They are encrypted and they will transmit the decrypted information only after receiving correct signal from an authorized terminal. I tried it with my Visa PayWave card and all apps are tried say that it's encrypted and they cannot read it. Then I did some research and it turns out that it can only be read by an authorized reader, which makes a lot of sense for security reasons. So to enable NFC payments your bank would need to create an application for the phone,which would emulate the card, just like Google Wallet does. You can't just read a card and use it.
Btw yes you can use the Google Wallet on the Galaxy nexus,and pay with either the Google pre-paid card or you can register a City card if you are in the US and you happen to have one

krohnjw said:
Card emulation is not part of the SDK and not currently available.
Sent from my Nexus S using xda premium
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Damn, that sucks!

gambiting said:
It's not possible for a very simple reason Nexus or any other NFC enabled phone cannot read a Visa PayWave or Mastercard PayPass card just like that. They are encrypted and they will transmit the decrypted information only after receiving correct signal from an authorized terminal. I tried it with my Visa PayWave card and all apps are tried say that it's encrypted and they cannot read it. Then I did some research and it turns out that it can only be read by an authorized reader, which makes a lot of sense for security reasons. So to enable NFC payments your bank would need to create an application for the phone,which would emulate the card, just like Google Wallet does. You can't just read a card and use it.
Btw yes you can use the Google Wallet on the Galaxy nexus,and pay with either the Google pre-paid card or you can register a City card if you are in the US and you happen to have one
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Pst. That's not what he asked
Sent from my iPad 2 using Tapatalk

I'd like the same thing. Being able to use my phone to open the doors at work would be fantastic.

hotleadsingerguy said:
I'd like the same thing. Being able to use my phone to open the doors at work would be fantastic.
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I hope you didnt mean physically. And no i would not like those encrypted badges with the capability to be on my phone. Consumers have given enough power as is to corporations. I dont need X corporation having legal rights to track my whereabouts every breath i take becuse their encryption is on my personal OR work phone. No dice.
Sent from my samsung gt i9250 which is in the wrong country.

None of the NFC reader apps that I have tried to use on my Galaxy Nexus can read my smartcards (office doors, public transport card etc). It's a shame ICS doesn't support it but at least now I know why it hasn't been working.
The Samsung Galaxy S2 currently has that. My colleagues use their SG2s to open doors and pay at the office canteen. They can also use them to pay on the public transport system. I presume the NFC smartard emulation is a feature currently in Gingerbread that will eventually come to ICS.
The update that will eventually push ICS to the SG2 must contain NFC smartcard emulation otherwise the users will lose this existing feature.

pukemon said:
I hope you didnt mean physically. And no i would not like those encrypted badges with the capability to be on my phone. Consumers have given enough power as is to corporations. I dont need X corporation having legal rights to track my whereabouts every breath i take becuse their encryption is on my personal OR work phone. No dice.
Sent from my samsung gt i9250 which is in the wrong country.
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What on Earth are you talking about? Give power to corporations? Take your liberal soapbox to another forum, plz.
I'm talking about at *MY* work. All of the doors except the front are locked on our building during business hours. The only way to unlock them is to use an employee badge, which utilizes an RFID tag. Being able to have that tag stored on my phone would be an immense help, since I wouldn't have to remember to take my badge out of the car. I can't tell you how many times I've walked across the parking lot before realizing I left the badge in my car.

samizad said:
None of the NFC reader apps that I have tried to use on my Galaxy Nexus can read my smartcards (office doors, public transport card etc). It's a shame ICS doesn't support it but at least now I know why it hasn't been working.
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Click to collapse
This depends entirely on the card itself and how it's encoded. Most likely it's an RFID tag that is either not HF (13.56 Mhz) or it's not using the Standard/NDEF read/write keys (in the case of the Mifare tags).
samizad said:
The Samsung Galaxy S2 currently has that. My colleagues use their SG2s to open doors and pay at the office canteen. They can also use them to pay on the public transport system. I presume the NFC smartard emulation is a feature currently in Gingerbread that will eventually come to ICS.
The update that will eventually push ICS to the SG2 must contain NFC smartcard emulation otherwise the users will lose this existing feature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gingerbread doesn't do card emulation either. Google has stated in their NFC talks that there are various reasons NFC Card emulation isn't present - one being a lack of a standard.
If it's done on the SII then it's either an addition within the Touchwiz frameworkork (addition of known communication protocols and local storage of card info) or the tags they are using are NDEF (in which case NDEF Push works fine).

Exactly what im talking about. Do you thonk your building management or x corporation is going to say suuuure let us put that on your phone so easily and skip all the other security that needs to go along with that now since it is now digitally accessible on an easy to hack phone? Get a grip. I have 4 badges and about 30+ keys and and about 15 elevator access keys. If a badge or certain key is lost you gotta thrlugh procedures. Hopefully nothing that involves gloves but still. If a certain key is lost all the locks gotta get changed if a badge is lost or cloned, a badge can be deactivated but if theyre constantly being cloned, manipulated or bypassed then other/greater security measures have to be used or taken out. So no i dont want a stinking badge on any of my phones.
Sent from my samsung gt i9250 which is in the wrong country.

krohnjw said:
If it's done on the SII then it's either an addition within the Touchwiz frameworkork (addition of known communication protocols and local storage of card info) or the tags they are using are NDEF (in which case NDEF Push works fine).
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Click to collapse
You are surely correct. I am speaking about SG2s distributed within South Korea (where I am currently working) and, being a captive market, Samsung can easily adapt the Korean Touchwiz (or even the hardware of the Korean SG2s) to make it possible.
Actually, I have confirmed with people that the public transport NFC is not working with the SG2 but rather with the USim card (integrated NFC) that is given to them via SK Telecom and KT Telecom etc).

My Nexus can read my university's smart card without any trouble(using NFC TagInfo). And I use it to open doors to rooms with restricted access. So I guess it would be possible to emulate it,but I have no idea how to do this.

gambiting said:
My Nexus can read my university's smart card without any trouble(using NFC TagInfo). And I use it to open doors to rooms with restricted access. So I guess it would be possible to emulate it,but I have no idea how to do this.
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So how did you get your phone to open doors etc, did you have to ask your security team to enable something on the phone?

chandlerweb said:
So how did you get your phone to open doors etc, did you have to ask your security team to enable something on the phone?
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I believe he's referring to the fact that the card is used to open secure doors.

gambiting said:
My Nexus can read my university's smart card without any trouble(using NFC TagInfo). And I use it to open doors to rooms with restricted access. So I guess it would be possible to emulate it,but I have no idea how to do this.
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Click to collapse
It reads mine too and mine has a pin. Might try and test it tomorrow at work
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

chandlerweb said:
So how did you get your phone to open doors etc, did you have to ask your security team to enable something on the phone?
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krohnjw said:
I believe he's referring to the fact that the card is used to open secure doors.
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Yes, I meant that I use my card to open doors, not my phone

Did I understand that right: My Galaxy Nexus can read/write some NFC-Tags, but due to the lack of software protocols has no access to all of them?
I'm quite interested in NFC technology, so naturally I tested an ID card (was recognized) and my chip for the time tracking in the office (was not recognized, but is 13.56 MHz). So my question is – is this "just" a software issue or are there hardware limitations?

NFC Transit Pass Cloning

Hey guys I had a curious thought. I downloaded an NFC tag reader and was able to read some basic info from my Boston MBTA CharlieCard. I know it's a mifare classic chip. I was wondering how hard/legal it would be to somehow clone the card info so I could use my phone to pay the fare. Already dabbled with google wallet so I love the idea of getting rid of crap in my pocket. My door locks are next
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

Sweet, I used NFC Classic which can ave it and use it as a new profile..it read my bus pass, and even my chase visa credit card! I'll have to test it next week on the bus.
It pulls two profiles off the card, I'm not sure which to use.

MrIcky said:
Hey guys I had a curious thought. I downloaded an NFC tag reader and was able to read some basic info from my Boston MBTA CharlieCard. I know it's a mifare classic chip. I was wondering how hard/legal it would be to somehow clone the card info so I could use my phone to pay the fare. Already dabbled with google wallet so I love the idea of getting rid of crap in my pocket. My door locks are next
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Click to expand...
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I JUST moved to Boston and am taking the red line into work every day. If you can get this working or find someone who can let me know. This would be the ideal solution.

Anyone know of a way to do this? Seems like Farebot in the market does what I'm asking in other markets. My knowledge of this stuff gets weak beyond flashing roms and troubleshooting phones
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

Galaxy nexus has NFC emulation disabled, so you can't do what you want to do

jairmoreno said:
Galaxy nexus has NFC emulation disabled, so you can't do what you want to do
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Click to collapse
Disabled as in its a software setting or disabled as in the chip physically cant do it? Im guessing if the possibility exists someone will figure out a way to make it work. It IS a dev phone after all...

ErisMike said:
Disabled as in its a software setting or disabled as in the chip physically cant do it? Im guessing if the possibility exists someone will figure out a way to make it work. It IS a dev phone after all...
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Click to collapse
It's not disabled insomuch as it's not even in the public API.
If it uses NDEF as a messaging container you can use NDEF push (you'll likely need to write your own app for this, but it wouldn't be terribly difficult) - otherwise emulation of other card types / protocols just isn't present currently.
AFAIK Farebot only reads the data as well.

Anyone willing to accept that as a challenge?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

Another user on XDA, m0rtadelo, created a patch for the Nexus S 2.4.1_r1:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1281946
Maybe we can see his changes and port them to the GN ICS?

Any news on this front?
it would be wonderful to have the ability to open the doors at school with my phone rather than picking up my wallet

I too am interested. I'm in Montreal and we use the same tech with our BUS cards, so does my gym and work card. It would be awesome if my phone could completely replace my wallet.
please, if anyone knows of someone working on this let me know. I'm willing to donate for the cause.

i think everyone is pretty keen for nfc emulation! just have to find someone with the skills and motivation to do it. with NFC becoming more widespread, im sure that someone will pick up the task, especially with the nexus.

This would be awesome!

So since my OP the MBTA has mobile payment options for the commuter rail. Anyone know any other ways?

Presto Payments

In toronto the transit system here has made a new payment system, an NFC enabled card. I'm wondering if there is a way that I can use my phone to pay/ send the nfc signals to the machines?

HSR in Hamilton also has this transaction system implemented. Would be interesting to see imho.

According to Metrolinx, using NFC-capable apps is definitely in the cards (no pun intended).
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/projectsandprograms/presto/presto.aspx

TuxOtaku said:
According to Metrolinx, using NFC-capable apps is definitely in the cards (no pun intended).
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/projectsandprograms/presto/presto.aspx
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Not trying to bring you down, but they said NFC-capable devices. That could mean, that they might do contracts with Mobile Network Operators or so and install an app on the secure element. So we'd not use a normal "Android-App".

Damastus said:
Not trying to bring you down, but they said NFC-capable devices. That could mean, that they might do contracts with Mobile Network Operators or so and install an app on the secure element. So we'd not use a normal "Android-App".
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Yeah but at the same time, GO Transit (and thus Metrolinx) DID get Ryerson University to build their (decidedly awesome) mobile app for them. So while I will concede that what you suggest is certainly POSSIBLE, it would also be something that would be both terribly unpopular, and likely quite expensive.

TuxOtaku said:
Yeah but at the same time, GO Transit (and thus Metrolinx) DID get Ryerson University to build their (decidedly awesome) mobile app for them. So while I will concede that what you suggest is certainly POSSIBLE, it would also be something that would be both terribly unpopular, and likely quite expensive.
Click to expand...
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Lets say it like this: It's still quite a difference if you emulate a card type that your reader already can read. If yout want to go the way of an app, then there would be the need to replace the old reader infrastructure with NFC readers. Both ways are expensive for the one or the other side in the end.

I would love it if one day they brought it to mobile phones. The more I can do with my phone the better. I hate carrying a bunch of stuff when one thing can do it all.
Sent from my SGH-I747M using xda app-developers app

Presto app genuine does not work on nfc - capable devices like pixel, ph-1 and lg5, moto g6 play , though did not tested on custom roms yet but unlocked bootloader devices mentioned above do not work with Presto.
P.S. If your device has finger reader, Presto will work but give you error for payments if you did not enabled lock screen pin/gesture / not swipe!/ + insert your, at least, one finger print.
Question is is there any hack to make enable to work the Presto app on device that was bootloader unlocked and rooted (hard or with magic app)?

The chip that gets read from the presto card is actually very small about the size of a sim card, I sliced mine out of the card and attaached it into my watch buckle,. Now when I get on a bus I look like James Bond.

Google is the biggest reason behind the poor development of NFC

First of all, Google have full control of the NFC secure element in Nexus devices. This means that any company that wants to build an application that requires high security or the card emulation feature must beg Google for access. But Google are the good guys, right? Maybe not. Kaching wanted to build a NFC wallet for Android, but they say they've been given the cold shoulder by Google. Source here. How convenient that a potential competitor to Google Wallet is denied access, aye?
A related note is that card emulation is not possible for consumers in Android's current state. Let me give you an example of how card emulation would be useful in your everyday life: in your office or school you probably have NFC door access, and perhaps NFC printing and food payments. Many of these systems simply read the unique ID of the card and then associate that card ID with your account on the system. BlackBerry users have card emulation, meaning that they can use their phones with existing infrastructure. I've experienced this myself - my friend's BlackBerry can now be used to pay for his food and to gain entry to the building. Google have disabled this in Android - my Nexus spits out a random ID each time it's placed on the reader. If Google simply provided an application that allowed us to emulate one card at will, this would not be a problem. But they don't.
NFC could soon become a must-have feature on every phone. It certainly has the potential. However, the restrictions that Google have placed on NFC in Android will make gaining popularity very difficult.

Evangelion01 said:
First of all, Google have full control of the NFC secure element in Nexus devices. This means that any company that wants to build an application that requires high security or the card emulation feature must beg Google for access. But Google are the good guys, right? Maybe not. Kaching wanted to build a NFC wallet for Android, but they say they've been given the cold shoulder by Google. Source here. How convenient that a potential competitor to Google Wallet is denied access, aye?
A related note is that card emulation is not possible for consumers in Android's current state. Let me give you an example of how card emulation would be useful in your everyday life: in your office or school you probably have NFC door access, and perhaps NFC printing and food payments. Many of these systems simply read the unique ID of the card and then associate that card ID with your account on the system. BlackBerry users have card emulation, meaning that they can use their phones with existing infrastructure. I've experienced this myself - my friend's BlackBerry can now be used to pay for his food and to gain entry to the building. Google have disabled this in Android - my Nexus spits out a random ID each time it's placed on the reader. If Google simply provided an application that allowed us to emulate one card at will, this would not be a problem. But they don't.
NFC could soon become a must-have feature on every phone. It certainly has the potential. However, the restrictions that Google have placed on NFC in Android will make gaining popularity very difficult.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My question to you is, how is Nokia progressing with NFC in the development department? RIM?
Secure Element isn't something to be opened to every developer, because it totally undermines it's purpose if everyone has access to it.

I guess you don't fully understand the reason why Google disabled the card emulation.
As you said, some places use an NFC card for payments. Imagine someone that creates an app that emulates the card. But instead of the 10$ you've got on your card, the app tells that you've got $150 dollar on the card.
So, how can a school use NFC in a phone for payment? Simple, create a new NFC system with a secured(!) app, which transfers the data by NFC. Just like Google Wallet does. Google Wallet doesn't emulate an NFC card, it just transfers data though NFC and the receiver knows how to handle that data.
So, there are two things that need to be done:
- Create a new system that communicates with the device, instead of letting the system think it's just an NFC card.
- Wait until more users have got NFC in their phones. For now, only the HTC One series, the SGS3, the Nexus S and Galaxy Nexus contain NFC. Maybe a few more, but that's it.

adrynalyne said:
My question to you is, how is Nokia progressing with NFC in the development department? RIM?
Secure Element isn't something to be opened to every developer, because it totally undermines it's purpose if everyone has access to it.
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Click to collapse
As I mentioned, RIM allows card emulation. BlackBerry devices are compatible with existing infrastructure without having to develop new applications or authentication methods.
The Commonwealth Bank of Australia is not 'every developer'. They're a bank for Christ's sake. Obviously Google can't open the secure element to layman developers, but they're locking out financial institutions too?

fifarunnerr said:
I guess you don't fully understand the reason why Google disabled the card emulation.
As you said, some places use an NFC card for payments. Imagine someone that creates an app that emulates the card. But instead of the 10$ you've got on your card, the app tells that you've got $150 dollar on the card.
So, how can a school use NFC in a phone for payment? Simple, create a new NFC system with a secured(!) app, which transfers the data by NFC. Just like Google Wallet does. Google Wallet doesn't emulate an NFC card, it just transfers data though NFC and the receiver knows how to handle that data.
So, there are two things that need to be done:
- Create a new system that communicates with the device, instead of letting the system think it's just an NFC card.
- Wait until more users have got NFC in their phones. For now, only the HTC One series, the SGS3, the Nexus S and Galaxy Nexus contain NFC. Maybe a few more, but that's it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I mentioned, many schools don't actually write any information onto the NFC cards. The cards are empty. They simply link the UID of the card to a person's account on their backend system. This is how my school works. This way, there's absolutely no possibility of someone obtaining free food/money. And that's why my friend is able to use his BlackBerry on our system. Card emulation gives him a constant UID. My Nexus' p2p mode chucks out a random UID, meaning that it's not possible.
All Google would have to do to fix that is release an application that uses the secure element to allow us to emulate a single card with a constant UID. Then I too would be able to add my Nexus to the system.

Where are visa and MasterCard? Only when these giants get on board will nfc take off.

Trust me whenever the iphone has nfc than nfc will take off and become a "standard" among phones. Just like the front facing camera :banghead:
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk 2

Hotshot205 said:
Trust me whenever the iphone has nfc than nfc will take off and become a "standard" among phones. Just like the front facing camera :banghead:
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk 2
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Wait, are you saying now that apple was a pioneer of a front facing camera?
My daughters brand new first gen iphone had a ****ty 2 meg camera (just one), while my n95 had a front facing one and a main one -5meg on carl zeis optics.
Imho, the only thing apple does well is design. The sales and the place on the market is through the design in a first place.
I remember how their phone wouldnt have mms, bluetooth connection (apart from a headset) and pretty much no file transfer or interconnectivity -a phone!!!
Symbian may be dead now, still, a much better system than osx as far as I installed and fiddled with both of them.
Sent from my ST18i using XDA

Regrettably, Hotshot205 is right. iPhone = traction. Lots of the features in iPhones existed on phones before they showed up on iPhone. But, all those fanboys will tell their friends and try to make phandroids jealous. Would you give a damn about Instagram if not for all the iTards going on and on about it? We had better photo-sharing apps before that, but nobody cared. Rumor has it the next iPhone will have NFC, and if it does, I bet we suddenly see a lot more use for a technology we had a year earlier.

Yeah that our hardware to be used at stores, to enable a wave and pay are not in alot of areas. Wait till visa and Samsung start pushing this hard during the Olympics
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Wouldn't the Isis nfc system also be part of problem with nfc development?

Google isn't the only blockade to NFC
The NFC P2P protocol is what is most used for facilities access applications on Android. There are systems that take advantage of this on the market already. Some systems for access control are fundamentally incompatible. All our NFC enabled phones are capable of handling this protocol.
As for Google holding up NFC. I can see how card emulation can be a thorny issue for Google. You would need access to the secure element and that might provide unintended exploits for scams and fraud. Would you want to be liable?
Individual banks are responsible for including the established NFC features Visa and Mastercard have already implemented. Not only are they loathe to change but they are also tightwads and don't want to issue millions of cards with chips in them or build the infrastructure to manage them. The are also paranoid about access to the information stored in the NFC secure element.
Merchants also must not only purchase and install the POS terminals that are NFC enabled but they also must be troubleshooters and educators for people that have trouble using their NFC cards. I can't tell you how many times I've tried to use Google Wallet at a merchant but couldn't because the clerk didn't know how to use it. Of all the places I use my cards at, only about 15% actually have the POS terminal for NFC transactions.
And while I'm not including the typical XDA member, people are paranoid. My 85 year old father refuses to use his credit union Visa debit because he thinks it's less secure than writing a check. He comes to me to order stuff online with my AmEx card... he's never going to change.
As far as Apple is concerned, they will bring a monolithic install base that will bring critical mass to the party. All those iPhones running around asking to pay with their iBucks will probably push us over the cliff and you'll see a much more rapid deployment of POS readers. Nobody will know what Apple is doing until it's released. I've not even heard any credible chatter for inclusion of NFC in the next iPhone.
I know I've rambled on a bit. But I doubt Google is as big a barrier as you would think. I think it's more likely the banks, merchants, not having critical mass for full scale deployment, etc.
EDIT
I just found an article at Forbes outlining a patent from Apple about an iWallet using the bluetooth 4 low power features... interesting but very disruptive for the ecosystem.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/anthony...t-paves-way-for-next-iphone-to-be-an-iwallet/

Hotshot205 said:
Trust me whenever the iphone has nfc than nfc will take off and become a "standard" among phones. Just like the front facing camera :banghead:
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You obviously don't know what your talking about. Android phones has FFC before iPhones. Many features appear in Android way before in iOS (I.e. notifications, NFC, face unlock, etc.). The list goes on.....
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

jokerzx12 said:
You obviously don't know what your talking about. Android phones has FFC before iPhones. Many features appear in Android way before in iOS (I.e. notifications, NFC, face unlock, etc.). The list goes on.....
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He never said otherwise. He said it didn't "take off" until the iPhone.

jokerzx12 said:
You obviously don't know what your talking about. Android phones has FFC before iPhones. Many features appear in Android way before in iOS (I.e. notifications, NFC, face unlock, etc.). The list goes on.....
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please try reading before bashing..

Wilsonium said:
The NFC P2P protocol is what is most used for facilities access applications on Android. There are systems that take advantage of this on the market already. Some systems for access control are fundamentally incompatible. All our NFC enabled phones are capable of handling this protocol.
As for Google holding up NFC. I can see how card emulation can be a thorny issue for Google. You would need access to the secure element and that might provide unintended exploits for scams and fraud. Would you want to be liable?
Individual banks are responsible for including the established NFC features Visa and Mastercard have already implemented. Not only are they loathe to change but they are also tightwads and don't want to issue millions of cards with chips in them or build the infrastructure to manage them. The are also paranoid about access to the information stored in the NFC secure element.
Merchants also must not only purchase and install the POS terminals that are NFC enabled but they also must be troubleshooters and educators for people that have trouble using their NFC cards. I can't tell you how many times I've tried to use Google Wallet at a merchant but couldn't because the clerk didn't know how to use it. Of all the places I use my cards at, only about 15% actually have the POS terminal for NFC transactions.
And while I'm not including the typical XDA member, people are paranoid. My 85 year old father refuses to use his credit union Visa debit because he thinks it's less secure than writing a check. He comes to me to order stuff online with my AmEx card... he's never going to change.
As far as Apple is concerned, they will bring a monolithic install base that will bring critical mass to the party. All those iPhones running around asking to pay with their iBucks will probably push us over the cliff and you'll see a much more rapid deployment of POS readers. Nobody will know what Apple is doing until it's released. I've not even heard any credible chatter for inclusion of NFC in the next iPhone.
I know I've rambled on a bit. But I doubt Google is as big a barrier as you would think. I think it's more likely the banks, merchants, not having critical mass for full scale deployment, etc.
EDIT
I just found an article at Forbes outlining a patent from Apple about an iWallet using the bluetooth 4 low power features... interesting but very disruptive for the ecosystem.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/anthony...t-paves-way-for-next-iphone-to-be-an-iwallet/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The P2P protocol will not do anything for the proliferation of NFC. Existing infrastructure does not use P2P, and that Google are trying to push it is laughable. When a person sees that their phone can give them access to their buildings using hardware that has been deployed for years, they'll sit up and notice. That's the case with BlackBerry.
The banks are only an issue because they're trying to get a cut. They know that NFC is coming. HSBC have made NFC-enabled cards the standard now. Barclays have issued over 21 million NFC-enabled cards; they're even giving away NFC stickers and wristbands. Even over there in America, many banks issue NFC-enabled cards as standard.
The merchants are adopting NFC at a fast pace now. Just last week the UK Post Office announced it would be installing NFC terminals into all 11,500 of its stores by October. A number of supermarkets are rolling out NFC terminals. Many small mom-and-pop shops even have NFC terminals.
The biggest issue for Android and NFC is Google. The people that want to use NFC to its fullest can't, because Google Wallet is so limited in terms of supported banks/countries/devices. Then when competing companies want to make an NFC Wallet, Google shuts them out. There was a company who wanted to make NFC-based door locks, but Google wouldn't give them access to the secure element. Obviously you can't just give anyone access to the secure element, but Google are turning their backs on established businesses. They're stifling development. Why do you think the Nexus devices don't have MicroSD slots? It's very possibly because MicroSD cards can be used as removable secure elements which Google can't control. Same with SIM cards, which is why it's still unclear whether the Nexus devices can use SIM cards as secure elements.
Take the Galaxy S3. Its embedded secure element is controlled by Samsung, but it can also use the SIM card and the MicroSD card as secure elements. Samsung have already provided Visa and Lloyds access to the secure element for NFC payments at the Olympics. Can't say the same for Google and the Nexus devices.

Hotshot205 said:
Trust me whenever the iphone has nfc than nfc will take off and become a "standard" among phones. Just like the front facing camera :banghead:
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep. We can just hope they Apple will add NFC to the next iPhone.

Thanks for everyone who took up for my post. I never said apple made it they only made it cool or the "in the happening" I've used so many different phones its not even funny and my first phone with a front facing camera was the Nokia N95(still one of my favorite phones) Nokia been had ffc, I remember using fring for GOD sakes lol. So I'm not a noob to technology but I know apple marketing is crazy when they add new features that's been out before it hits their phone. Plus I wish the new Apple iphone have nfc. It will give nfc the push it needs to get off the ground. While android will still have cooler nfc apps in my opinion.
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk 2

...ftr -
N95 release 2007, front camera-VGA, main-5Mpx (carl zeis)
3 years later...
Iphone 4 2010, front camera-VGA, main-5Mpx
btw, I put my old N95 to envirophone, was offered 65 Euro,
same age iphone-10 Euro.
lol
not to sound harsh now, Steve Jobs did a lot for the technology, design and innovation in all his areas, somehow, I dont think apple will do as well without him, just like they didnt do well without him before -just my opinion
sorry off topic

Nfc needs a universal standard or be narrowed to 2 or 3 standards for it to become competitive and viable. Apple may or may not give this momentum. Personally, i think they will. Too many companies want their cut for digitally touching your money. Sad but true. And hope i don't ever hear an apple user saying something stupid like apple invented nfc or smartphone payments. Been through that too many times with other 'established' or 'invented' technologies. Like apps. And voip. Even the smartphone itself. Ugh.
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