Develop Bugs

When LTE dominates, will importing phones still be possible?

Importing phones is obviously possible now because tons of carriers all over the world share AT&T's GSM and UMTS/HSPA bands.
When LTE starts to become the dominant source for cell-phone signals (especially when Voice-over-LTE appears), will AT&T still share bands with the rest of the world like it does now?
In other words, will AT&T still have the advantage over Vzw and T-Mobile that early adopters of phones will be able to import them and use them months before they show up in the US? Or will the proliferation of LTE cause AT&T to suffer from the same problem from which Verizon suffers: You will ONLY be able to use phones designed specifically for the AT&T network?
I ask because right now I have AT&T and Verizon, and I have unlimited data on both. I'm going to be canceling one of them within the next week or so. Right now I actually prefer AT&T's service, and I love the fact that I can import phones that are not available in the US. But if the "importing phones" advantage of AT&T disappears, perhaps Verizon becomes the more desirable carrier for me.

You haven't read much about LTE, I guess. By conforming to the LTE standards, a multi-band LTE phone will be able to be as much of a "world phone" as a multi-band GSM phone. While there are some differences in frequency spectrums around the planet, there are many in common.
The allocated frequencies are 700 and 1700 MHz in North America; 800, 1800, 2600 MHz in Europe; 1800 and 2600 MHz in Asia; and 1800 MHz in Australia.
So, a quad-band LTE phone with frequencies of 700/1700/1800/2600 would get you coverage almost anywhere.
The end result is this: If the manufacturers want to make an LTE "world phone" just like they have in the past with GSM, they certainly can (within the laws of physics, if the antenna technologies will allow it). The same economics apply for the manufacturers, and possibly better - since there are a smaller set of frequencies with greater chance of coverage - and a greater market potential for a single design.
I suspect that with modern fractal antenna technology, this won't be a huge issue.

In North America, are the 700 and 1700 different carriers, or is it better for a phone to support both like the current att 850/1900?

¿GotJazz? said:
You haven't read much about LTE, I guess. By conforming to the LTE standards, a multi-band LTE phone will be able to be as much of a "world phone" as a multi-band GSM phone. While there are some differences in frequency spectrums around the planet, there are many in common.
The allocated frequencies are 700 and 1700 MHz in North America; 800, 1800, 2600 MHz in Europe; 1800 and 2600 MHz in Asia; and 1800 MHz in Australia.
So, a quad-band LTE phone with frequencies of 700/1700/1800/2600 would get you coverage almost anywhere.
The end result is this: If the manufacturers want to make an LTE "world phone" just like they have in the past with GSM, they certainly can (within the laws of physics, if the antenna technologies will allow it). The same economics apply for the manufacturers, and possibly better - since there are a smaller set of frequencies with greater chance of coverage - and a greater market potential for a single design.
I suspect that with modern fractal antenna technology, this won't be a huge issue.
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Thanks. That was actually pretty helpful. But for instance, it is my understanding that AT&T runs in the low-700s, and Vzw runs in the high-700s. And Vzw has tentatively stated that its LTE phones will not be compatible with AT&T's. So I guess when you say they could make a multi-band LTE phone, it would need to cover "all of" 700 MHz for it to have both AT&T and Vzw compatibility.
In any event, does this favor AT&T or Vzw for future phones? My guess would be for at least the next several years, if not decade or more, all LTE phones will have 3G radios in them as well. And those 3G radios, just like today, are going to be GSM. So I guess you could start seeing phones world phones that are both quad-band GSM and quad-band LTE, and theoretically these would work on AT&T, but not Vzw.
Am I on the right path here? Do you agree that it seems likely at least until GSM/3G completely die (if ever), most/all LTE phones will continue to have 3G radios, and this would suggest that if anything, importing international phones will still be possible on AT&T but not Vzw?

chrikenn said:
Thanks. That was actually pretty helpful. But for instance, it is my understanding that AT&T runs in the low-700s, and Vzw runs in the high-700s. And Vzw has tentatively stated that its LTE phones will not be compatible with AT&T's. So I guess when you say they could make a multi-band LTE phone, it would need to cover "all of" 700 MHz for it to have both AT&T and Vzw compatibility.
In any event, does this favor AT&T or Vzw for future phones? My guess would be for at least the next several years, if not decade or more, all LTE phones will have 3G radios in them as well. And those 3G radios, just like today, are going to be GSM. So I guess you could start seeing phones world phones that are both quad-band GSM and quad-band LTE, and theoretically these would work on AT&T, but not Vzw.
Am I on the right path here? Do you agree that it seems likely at least until GSM/3G completely die (if ever), most/all LTE phones will continue to have 3G radios, and this would suggest that if anything, importing international phones will still be possible on AT&T but not Vzw?
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Almost every LTE deployment other than VZW runs alongside an existing 3GPP (GSM) network and most all chipsets will natively support the combination. Therefore, I doubt you will see many devices without the UMTS radios. No one is turning their 3G networks off any time soon. Verizon will be one of very few sources for LTE devices WITHOUT any other GSM radios.
As for LTE frequencies, there are A LOT of them. What chipsets will support which radio combinations is still a subject of much debate. Don't expect full interop out of the box.

You can always import regardless
the only risk you face is all the different LTE radio bands that you might or might not get with certain phones
chrikenn said:
Importing phones is obviously possible now because tons of carriers all over the world share AT&T's GSM and UMTS/HSPA bands.
When LTE starts to become the dominant source for cell-phone signals (especially when Voice-over-LTE appears), will AT&T still share bands with the rest of the world like it does now?
In other words, will AT&T still have the advantage over Vzw and T-Mobile that early adopters of phones will be able to import them and use them months before they show up in the US? Or will the proliferation of LTE cause AT&T to suffer from the same problem from which Verizon suffers: You will ONLY be able to use phones designed specifically for the AT&T network?
I ask because right now I have AT&T and Verizon, and I have unlimited data on both. I'm going to be canceling one of them within the next week or so. Right now I actually prefer AT&T's service, and I love the fact that I can import phones that are not available in the US. But if the "importing phones" advantage of AT&T disappears, perhaps Verizon becomes the more desirable carrier for me.
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Does the Galaxy Nexus LTE version also support the Penta-Band GSM bands for international travel?
Verizon version = GSM + LTE?
Sorry I'm a noob at Verizon's ways.

player911 said:
Does the Galaxy Nexus LTE version also support the Penta-Band GSM bands for international travel?
Verizon version = GSM + LTE?
Sorry I'm a noob at Verizon's ways.
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Don't think so. Verizon version = CDMA + LTE. So it will only work in the US, on Verizon.

chrikenn said:
Don't think so. Verizon version = CDMA + LTE. So it will only work in the US, on Verizon.
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I always thought that Verizon always had bands for international travel also? I mean not really a big deal. Verizon is the clear winner for coverage nationally and since my work is paying for it, its even sweeter.
Right now I just have a blackberry

player911 said:
I always thought that Verizon always had bands for international travel also? I mean not really a big deal. Verizon is the clear winner for coverage nationally and since my work is paying for it, its even sweeter.
Right now I just have a blackberry
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It's possible that the Verizon version has GSM/UMTS radios, it's also possible that it has those but are disabled somehow. We really don't know all that much about the LTE version of this phone, we don't even know the exact dimensions of it and what battery it comes with. So we'll just have to wait until it passes through the FCC or is released.

Chirality said:
It's possible that the Verizon version has GSM/UMTS radios, it's also possible that it has those but are disabled somehow. We really don't know all that much about the LTE version of this phone, we don't even know the exact dimensions of it and what battery it comes with. So we'll just have to wait until it passes through the FCC or is released.
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+1 for storming Google HQ
G2x - 2.3.7 CM7
Transformer - 3.2 Revolver OC/UV

Chirality said:
It's possible that the Verizon version has GSM/UMTS radios, it's also possible that it has those but are disabled somehow. We really don't know all that much about the LTE version of this phone, we don't even know the exact dimensions of it and what battery it comes with. So we'll just have to wait until it passes through the FCC or is released.
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I do recall seeing a negatory on the world phone status in Verizon's inventory system. And I suppose there is still the option for dormant or disabled radios but I ain't holding my breath.

penataband for Europe?

Sometime a go, there was a thread about variants of GNEX, from comments I understand that all GSM are same, only radio software is different,
but on some sites it not mention all 5 3G bands, and only 3 for Europe,
also what about 2.4 and 5 Ghz for WIFI? is it also suffers for Europe or something? or not? I kind of stuck, I really want the device with all standard accessories, mostly the charger, and not search for it, after I buy,
and also be sure it support 850 & 2100 for 3G, the S have also many variants, as SII have toooo many of them, so how can I find out about that issue?

As I said in the other thread... They're all pentaband. Every single model. And yes they support 5ghz wifi.

martonikaj said:
As I said in the other thread... They're all pentaband. Every single model. And yes they support 5ghz wifi.
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Well all but the CDMA (Verizon USA model)
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

_Dennis_ said:
Well all but the CDMA (Verizon USA model)
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
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Sorry yes. Obviously. You would've had to read the really long thread before where OP wouldn't take my word for it that any i9250 is pentaband...

I think I got it now, I just used to that for US & EU have different frequency devices, see I used to work to one of the mobile manufacturers, and we have sometime 2 type of devices, one for EU and other for US, and maybe it's hard to believe that unicorns exists, heh on the second hand, on old GSM it also not always a "world" phones so it do make sense,
and another funny thing, also 850 band I actually US, here in Israel we use it..because of the ARMY ...to make things even worse, the QUAD GSM no worth to much, as 2 of our providers that still have GSM, have only 1 frequency, the solution was to "share" the networks ,We do have HSPA+, but the future will be LTE ..dunno why, also no 4G here ,the mobile internet cost to much and slow as ****

[q] pentaband?

im going in a backpacking trip to Europe and was hoping to clarify a few things with my note 2. ive read that our phone is a pentaband phone but when looking up the tech specs I saw that its missing the UMTS 900 MHz (band 8) which is required for certain parts of Europe, more specifically france. I was just asking and trying to clear up some confusion to see if our phone is really a true pentaband phone (such as the nexus 4) and will it work in france with 3g/4glte speeds. thanks

Yes it have the 900 band. The lte is a different and probably won't work overseas.
Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2

I can't help but wonder if flashing an N7105 baseband might make the European LTE bands work (while probably losing AWS HSPA).
(On the other hand I'm not going to be the one potentially stuck with a 450$ brick if it doesn't.)

[Q] Is T-Mobile version equal to AT&T version?

I got a T-Mobile HTC One (M8) only to discover there's no coverage where I am. I already rooted, S-OFFed, TWRPed, and transferred all my files, history, texts, configured it, etc. so I really want to just keep the phone, pay it off, and switch to AT&T, but is there anything I'd lose out on? Are there any differences between the phones themselves (limiting radio differences, etc.) that I should know about? Will the phone perform equally on AT&T's network?
Thanks!

No differences as far as I know. Just that the carrier is different obviously.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

I'm pretty sure the AT&T version has more LTE bands? I could be totally wrong though...
From the GSMArena spec sheet
LTE 700 / 850 / 1700 / 1800 / 1900 / 2100 / 2600 - AT&T
LTE 700 / 1700 / 2100 - T-Mobile
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Cuppeerr said:
I'm pretty sure the AT&T version has more LTE bands? I could be totally wrong though...
From the GSMArena spec sheet
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Do you know if that's the sort of thing that you can flash a radio update to fix? or is that a hardware issue (lacking hardware)?

quinxy said:
Do you know if that's the sort of thing that you can flash a radio update to fix? or is that a hardware issue (lacking hardware)?
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It's a hardware thing.

Just to follow up on my own post...
I did some research and the frequencies which are not in a T-Mobile HTC One (M8) when moved to AT&T appear to be used by non AT&T companies who are likely roaming partners of AT&T (e.g., Rogers in Canada, U.S. Cellular in the West (I think)). So, doesn't seem like a huge negative, unless roaming quite a bit and/or going to Canada.

[Q] LTE Network

Hi,
I want to buy the htc one m8 from the usa (verizon, at&t, sprint, t-mobile etc...)
I'm from europe and in my country lte will be available in 1800 and 2600 (band 3 and 7)
I've got comfused from all of the specs, so which variant htc support band 3 and/or 7?
Thanks for your help

Don't buy a USA phone to use in Europe they're different for a reason. The Asia version is more likely to be compatible with European bands.

Certainly not Verizon or Sprint!

iii2 said:
Hi,
I want to buy the htc one m8 from the usa (verizon, at&t, sprint, t-mobile etc...)
I'm from europe and in my country lte will be available in 1800 and 2600 (band 3 and 7)
I've got comfused from all of the specs, so which variant htc support band 3 and/or 7?
Thanks for your help
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Click to collapse
To be 100% sure of compatibility, buy the EU handset if you're in the EU - it makes sense

EddyOS said:
To be 100% sure of compatibility, buy the EU handset if you're in the EU - it makes sense
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I would but it just don't worth the money, both europe and asia version are way more expensive, so i prefer to go with a cheaper device, 32gb and withouht lte. But still, at least one usa network should support band 3 and 7, anyone know?

iii2 said:
I would but it just don't worth the money, both europe and asia version are way more expensive, so i prefer to go with a cheaper device, 32gb and withouht lte. But still, at least one usa network should support band 3 and 7, anyone know?
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Having a warranty and full support from HTC is more than worth the money IMO

I'm from Israel, we don't have an offical HTC in here so it doesn't change a lot. I will probably also install roms so the warranry isn't that usefull :/

EddyOS said:
To be 100% sure of compatibility, buy the EU handset if you're in the EU - it makes sense
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Click to collapse
Agree. Plus, not sure if the OP intends to root or not. But left stock, the AT&T version in particular has critical functions disabled (WiFi hotspot); and you will also typically not receive OTA updates outside the US. I'd stay away from buying the AT&T variant for use in other countries, unless you have a definitive reason to pick that variant.
---------- Post added at 09:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 AM ----------
iii2 said:
But still, at least one usa network should support band 3 and 7, anyone know?
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Why would you assume that? According to the following Wiki, those bands are not supported in the US:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LTE_networks#Americas
According to gsm arena, the AT&T and Verizon variants support LTE 1800 and 2600 MHz (bands 3 and 7, respectively); probably for international roaming purposes. But I'd still recommend buying the Euro or Asian version over either of these. And gsm arena is not always 100% accurate, so I'd take it with a grain or salt and research more before making any decision:
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_one_(m8)-6074.php
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_one_(m8)_cdma-6233.php

redpoint73 said:
Agree. Plus, not sure if the OP intends to root or not. But left stock, the AT&T version in particular has critical functions disabled (WiFi hotspot); and you will also typically not receive OTA updates outside the US. I'd stay away from buying the AT&T variant for use in other countries, unless you have a definitive reason to pick that variant.
---------- Post added at 09:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 AM ----------
Why would you assume that? According to the following Wiki, those bands are not supported in the US:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LTE_networks#Americas
According to gsm arena, the AT&T and Verizon variants support LTE 1800 and 2600 MHz (bands 3 and 7, respectively); probably for international roaming purposes. But I'd still recommend buying the Euro or Asian version over either of these. And gsm arena is not always 100% accurate, so I'd take it with a grain or salt and research more before making any decision:
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_one_(m8)-6074.php
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_one_(m8)_cdma-6233.php
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Click to collapse
Thanks for your help, but again, I know buying it from europe or asia is the best solution but in that case i wont get 32gb and it will cost me 300$ more, It just doesn't worth it since lte is still not available and it will be only in israel by the end of 2014. And i will install a custom rom, so OTA updates and the carrier bloat doesn't bother me that much.
I also don't think gsmarena is that accurate. accordint to htc website these are the bands:
EMEA: 800/900/1800/2600 MHz
Asia: 700/900/1800/2100/2600 MHz
AT&T: 700/850/AWS/1800/1900/2600 MHz
Sprint: FDD 800/1900 MHz , TDD 2600 MHz
Verizon: 700/AWS/1800/2600 MHz
TMUS: 700/AWS MHz
but it looks really untrustable, because in the othe rhand, anandtech site telling somthing else: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7893/the-htc-one-m8-review
I just don't know which site is right :silly:

iii2 said:
I also don't think gsmarena is that accurate. accordint to htc website these are the bands:
EMEA: 800/900/1800/2600 MHz
Asia: 700/900/1800/2100/2600 MHz
AT&T: 700/850/AWS/1800/1900/2600 MHz
Sprint: FDD 800/1900 MHz , TDD 2600 MHz
Verizon: 700/AWS/1800/2600 MHz
TMUS: 700/AWS MHz
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Click to collapse
I don't see a difference between this, and what is posted on GSM Arena (the links I posted).
AWS band is 1700/2100 MHz (Band 4). Its a bit confusing that GSM Arena lists them like they are 2 different bands. But one is used for upload, the other for download. So its not to be confused with 2100 Mhz (band 1) for instance.

redpoint73 said:
I don't see a difference between this, and what is posted on GSM Arena (the links I posted).
AWS band is 1700/2100 MHz (Band 4). Its a bit confusing that GSM Arena lists them like they are 2 different bands. But one is used for upload, the other for download. So its not to be confused with 2100 Mhz (band 1) for instance.
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I see, but it is diffrenet from the table band in here http://www.anandtech.com/show/7893/the-htc-one-m8-review, like verizon in htc site has the 1800 mhz but in the table on anandtech channel 3 isn't there.

iii2 said:
I see, but it is diffrenet from the table band in here http://www.anandtech.com/show/7893/the-htc-one-m8-review, like verizon in htc site has the 1800 mhz but in the table on anandtech channel 3 isn't there.
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You can probably find a lot of websites that have incorrect specification information on this (and other) phones. That's unfortunately just a fact. I think I've even seen spec errors on HTC's on website for some of their devices. Your best bet is to get as much reliable info as you can. Since HTC's own website agrees with GSM Arena, I'd go with those. But that is just my own conclusion.
In any case, I wouldn't recommend the Verizon (CDMA) version. You don't need CDMA, and it might introduce a whole lot of needless complications. The CDMA versions also don't seem to have quite the developer support that the GSM only versions enjoy.

redpoint73 said:
You can probably find a lot of websites that have incorrect specification information on this (and other) phones. That's unfortunately just a fact. I think I've even seen spec errors on HTC's on website for some of their devices. Your best bet is to get as much reliable info as you can. Since HTC's own website agrees with GSM Arena, I'd go with those. But that is just my own conclusion.
In any case, I wouldn't recommend the Verizon (CDMA) version. You don't need CDMA, and it might introduce a whole lot of needless complications. The CDMA versions also don't seem to have quite the developer support that the GSM only versions enjoy.
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which devices are cdma?

iii2 said:
which devices are cdma?
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Sprint and Verizon

Hey,
I am also looking for buying the phone form the US although I am not from there (I am from Israel as well but currently in Australia), I was thinking about getting the Unlocked version but I'm not sure which bands does it support, I tried looking on GSMarena, HTC website but couldn't find any info and when I asked the Online chat support they did not know the answer, so do you have any idea which bands the unlocked version supports and do you think there would be a problem with bands if I get it from the US and use it in Israel/Aus?, as the other user said, it is way cheaper in the US, the 32GB in the US is cheaper than the 16GB in AU!
Thanks Heaps
S.Y.Z