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I'm very unhappy with my new Desire. It is of course, also, the problem regarding "the change" from WM to Android, but... I cannot choose "My location" and now I just discovered that YOU CAN'T SYNC NOTES AND TASK with Outlook. This is unbelievable! If the problem with My location and weather shown in the HOME Screen it's not so serious (you can check the weather on line) the problem with the sync it's awful, and there is no program on the "market" to solve it.
I can't believe that I just bought a 500 euro phone and it is so useless. Is there any chance to replace the famous "Android" with a real OS like WM 6.5 (from HD2) for example???
Please I'm desperate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
buy a HD2 instead. (!!!11!1!!!)
Why did you buy an Android phone if you want to install WM 6.5 on it?
Why do people still use Outlook is beyond my belief
Why do people still sync to a computer (that can only be in one place at a time) is again beyond my belief.
I have my Desire for 2 weeks now and I never even installed the sync app, don't even know what it looks like.
But to answer your question: NO you can't replace Android to the fake ... i mean real OS Windows Mobile.
I came from Windows Mobile and I couldn't be happier i got rid of it. Stop thinking offline, and start thinking cloud sync... it'll eventually be the default weather we like it or not.
You can argue (From a technical pov) that WM6.5 is a real OS and that Android isn't. In fact even Symbian would be more of a "Real" OS than Android. The difference is that those two OSes can run native code and Android just runs everything via Java. This doesn't mean much to most users but to developers it means a lot.
someone please shut this thread before the OP gets flamed to death......
If native code means a deficiency of decent apps, where even the few good ones are jerky, clunky and Windows CE...ey then I'm all for Java - go Java.
I left the HD2 because Windows Mobile is unreliable (believe it or not) because it was never meant to handle such complex skins as Sense UI and therefore leaked memory like a teabag full of pulped brain; and also because there was a deficiency of decent apps (despite its supposed ability to handle 'native code'). If it's so great then why are most of the .cabs people install fixes and patches rather than ACTUAL apps? And why are there no decent alternative Facebook apps etc? Is Windows Mobile 'TOO GOOD' for this sort of software development? For an OS a fifth of the age of Windows Mobile, Android has ten times as many IM apps (for example). Why is this so?
Android allows for one to code/install apps for even CORE applications like SMS and Email: show me a decent email replacement for Windows Mobile? One that ACTUALLY REPLACES the native one....you can't? Android can.
And as capricious as it might seem the rubbish email client in Windows Mobile was one of the reasons I started to loath the OS. What is the point of the 'click to scroll right' and 'pictures blocked for security reasons' BS??? Is it REALLY necessary? And why is it so....ugly?
Anyway I thought I'd get my word in before this thread gets closed. If you can't move with the times then go and buy a TyTn 2 or something. Outlook syncing will soon be as dead as Windows Mobile so for Google to include it would be a backwards step, being as more necessary features are still to be implemented.
It's all about the cloud.
P.S. research before jumping in and buying a phone as you seem to have very specific requirements. Outlook task and notes syncing is a VERY SPECIFIC requirement which in the overall scheme of a burgeoning OS would be deemed unnecessary by Google. I wouldn't buy a Renault Megane if I needed a tractor.
I think it's just a case of people not liking change at all. So the different and sometimes better things that Android provides seem not so good.
Why do people still use Outlook is beyond my belief
Why do people still sync to a computer (that can only be in one place at a time) is again beyond my belief.
I have my Desire for 2 weeks now and I never even installed the sync app, don't even know what it looks like.
But to answer your question: NO you can't replace Android to the fake ... i mean real OS Windows Mobile.
I came from Windows Mobile and I couldn't be happier i got rid of it. Stop thinking offline, and start thinking cloud sync... it'll eventually be the default weather we like it or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For work purposes most likely? Information that has to be stored securely in outlook on a system which they DO NOT want in the cloud? But would like to sync via hard wire or secure connection to the device?
Outlook syncing will be alive as long as Microsoft push it and businesses continue to use it and would rather not have information in the cloud, even Windows Phone 7 offers outlook syncing, it isn't going anywhere.
I havn't tried but doesn't htc sync allow to sync with Outlook?? I though that was what it said on the box....
Anyhow, i've just come from an HTC Touch HD where i have tried all the versions of windows and senses and other interfaces and i have to say i am loving my new desire!!!!
I am no developer but Android is so much better adapted to a smartphone, it's fast, fluid and allows all sorts of customization and when i had my HD, as far as i can remember, there were like 20 apps on the marketplace, i thin android market is at 30.000???? No question, no comparison!!!
An app on the Market - Touchdown allows tasks syncing with outlook. Not sure about Notes.
But to be honest, as has been said, why spend €500 on a phone and not have done any research into wether it will do what you want it to.
Not only that, but if its a problem, then in most instances you wil be able to return it within 7 or 14 days for a refund (less any charges) so you should have done that.
Whats the moral of this tale :- Always do your research!
solaris78 said:
I'm very unhappy with my new Desire. It is of course, also, the problem regarding "the change" from WM to Android, but... I cannot choose "My location" and now I just discovered that YOU CAN'T SYNC NOTES AND TASK with Outlook. This is unbelievable! If the problem with My location and weather shown in the HOME Screen it's not so serious (you can check the weather on line) the problem with the sync it's awful, and there is no program on the "market" to solve it.
I can't believe that I just bought a 500 euro phone and it is so useless. Is there any chance to replace the famous "Android" with a real OS like WM 6.5 (from HD2) for example???
Please I'm desperate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you had such explicit requirements, why didn't you do the research before hand?
Regarding issue with syncing tasks, use the calendar to create your tasks in outlook, use an app on your computer called google calendar sync to upload it to a gmail account, then you'll have them on your phone... simple.
Gustibus non disputandum est!
That means (I hope I write it down correct): the tastes are not questionable!!
I did my research before buying this toy, and I can return it in 30 days (10 to go), and the HD2 was the first option but the sizes ... to big for me.
At the office I use Outlook on my laptop to do notes, task, appointments (on my laptop)... and so on, and when I'm on the field maybe I need some of them, so.... I WILL LIKE TO SYNC MY NOTES FROM LAPTOP WITH MY PHONE. What is so hard to understand? That not everybody use the phone for games and billions of apps which are doing the same thing. In 3 hours of searching I found not more than 5 interesting application (and the WM has 3 of them in the original OS). That's all!
Why I use Outlook ? Because I have a job and an server e-mail and like any more than 70% of this world computers I use MIcrosoft Software. I received an advice from one forum: use Gmail notes! You gotta be kidding ! This 500 euro phone should have some real business apps. I don't use phone for music, pictures and games, instead I need a mail client which allow me to select different mails and mark them like read, or unread. I receive hundreds of mail daily and I need to organize them. What it's so hard to understand?
Give me a break with this Android OS. I hoped that will be different than Iphone but it's the same sheet. I prefer to have notes instead Facebook...social communication ! And tasks instead youtube!
When I bought this phone I never thought that the sync software will not sync notes and tasks. The 5 years old Nokia or Sony that I used then had it. MY problem is that the solution is so simple but you prefer to tell me that I have 3 billions of apps, why I need notes when I can play poker or chess?in 5000 languages.
In my opinion Android is a great software but ... for this price you should think that are some people which are trying to use it for the daily job and not for messenger to pick-up minor teenage girls.
One of you wrote: why do you use Outlook, get on-line... Some information will never go on-line... company policy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And yes Android it's more simple to use than WM, but because it's simple he does simple things, but I NEED MORE! so I guess I need WM, complicated but it has what I need; it's just like cars: some people like muscle cars (pure power and simple technology), but others prefer German or Japanese cars which are maybe a little bit complicated but they offer something different.
thanks anyway!
snapilica2003 said:
Why do people still use Outlook is beyond my belief
Why do people still sync to a computer (that can only be in one place at a time) is again beyond my belief.
I have my Desire for 2 weeks now and I never even installed the sync app, don't even know what it looks like.
But to answer your question: NO you can't replace Android to the fake ... i mean real OS Windows Mobile.
I came from Windows Mobile and I couldn't be happier i got rid of it. Stop thinking offline, and start thinking cloud sync... it'll eventually be the default weather we like it or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what mail client do you use: Gmail, yahoo? are you in the kindergarden? or maybe you use phone for Facebook and Youtube. It's so cool you can see your friends on-line. Take care, maybe someday you will lose contact with the real world, and than you will be in the MATRIX... and poor me I'll be offline!
Sorry I couldn't resist ! but now seriously :WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THIS PHONE ?
So basically you're here to have a rant because you made a poor choice when buying a phone. Fair enough.
For what it's worth, I work in IT, and I use the Desire to keep a watch on my company email and calendar, sync'ed from Exchange Server. Does the job just fine. I don't use notes in Outlook because what ever you want to do, there is always a better alternative, even a note app on the phone itself would do a better job.
Sent from my HTC Desire using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
solaris78 said:
That means (I hope I write it down correct): the tastes are not questionable!!
I did my research before buying this toy, and I can return it in 30 days (10 to go), and the HD2 was the first option but the sizes ... to big for me.
At the office I use Outlook on my laptop to do notes, task, appointments (on my laptop)... and so on, and when I'm on the field maybe I need some of them, so.... I WILL LIKE TO SYNC MY NOTES FROM LAPTOP WITH MY PHONE. What is so hard to understand? That not everybody use the phone for games and billions of apps which are doing the same thing. In 3 hours of searching I found not more than 5 interesting application (and the WM has 3 of them in the original OS). That's all!
Why I use Outlook ? Because I have a job and an server e-mail and like any more than 70% of this world computers I use MIcrosoft Software. I received an advice from one forum: use Gmail notes! You gotta be kidding ! This 500 euro phone should have some real business apps. I don't use phone for music, pictures and games, instead I need a mail client which allow me to select different mails and mark them like read, or unread. I receive hundreds of mail daily and I need to organize them. What it's so hard to understand?
Give me a break with this Android OS. I hoped that will be different than Iphone but it's the same sheet. I prefer to have notes instead Facebook...social communication ! And tasks instead youtube!
When I bought this phone I never thought that the sync software will not sync notes and tasks. The 5 years old Nokia or Sony that I used then had it. MY problem is that the solution is so simple but you prefer to tell me that I have 3 billions of apps, why I need notes when I can play poker or chess?in 5000 languages.
In my opinion Android is a great software but ... for this price you should think that are some people which are trying to use it for the daily job and not for messenger to pick-up minor teenage girls.
One of you wrote: why do you use Outlook, get on-line... Some information will never go on-line... company policy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And yes Android it's more simple to use than WM, but because it's simple he does simple things, but I NEED MORE! so I guess I need WM, complicated but it has what I need; it's just like cars: some people like muscle cars (pure power and simple technology), but others prefer German or Japanese cars which are maybe a little bit complicated but they offer something different.
thanks anyway!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah after reading a bit, i think that you didn't really put much research into this... On your statements i would recommend Blackberry, its for emails, tasks and sync.
solaris78 said:
it's just like cars: some people like muscle cars (pure power and simple technology), but others prefer German or Japanese cars which are maybe a little bit complicated but they offer something different.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Show me the man who looks to buy a broken car, and I'll show you a HD2 that actually works as it's supposed to
solaris78 said:
what mail client do you use: Gmail, yahoo? are you in the kindergarden? or maybe you use phone for Facebook and Youtube. It's so cool you can see your friends on-line. Take care, maybe someday you will lose contact with the real world, and than you will be in the MATRIX... and poor me I'll be offline!
Sorry I couldn't resist ! but now seriously :WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THIS PHONE ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dude, the thing is, YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE BOUGHT THIS PHONE. Period. When you bought it you know, it's running android. As for syncing with outlook, you could have research it before hand. If you explicitly use it for syncing with outlook, and your work has a lot to do with microsoft software, why did you not buy a windows mobile device? answer me, plz.
What next? ppl are gonna come out complaining they cant install windows mobile on their iphone? give me a break.
solaris78 said:
what mail client do you use: Gmail, yahoo? are you in the kindergarden? or maybe you use phone for Facebook and Youtube. It's so cool you can see your friends on-line. Take care, maybe someday you will lose contact with the real world, and than you will be in the MATRIX... and poor me I'll be offline!
Sorry I couldn't resist ! but now seriously :WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THIS PHONE ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm actually working for a global telecom company as IT, so your statement above makes me laugh.
Do you guys don't separate your work life from your personal life? Are you doing work all the time.
My phone is exactly that, MY phone, not the company's phone, not the work phone. I'm not paying MY money to have a phone for work. My company gave me a phone and that's the work phone, that's the phone i'm called when someone from WORK wants to reach me, that phone is for work mail, that phone is for the stuff you said you needed. That phone that has the features my work requires from me.
This phone is my personal phone. I don't want to be contacted on this phone, I don't want to do work on this phone, it's MY phone and yeah, I do use Gmail as a personal email, I do use Google Calendar as my personal agenda, I do use Google Contacts and many many other cloud applications Google offers and I couldn't be happier. I want Facebook on MY phone, I want YouTube on MY phone.
Oh and that outlook you so much want is just a fronted to a MTA server, be it POP3, IMAP or Exchange. If you're not working for a secret spy agency most likely those MTA's are public and accessible from the internet. Why not connect to those and insist to connect to Outlook? If your company uses Exchange you can set up this phone to use it also, and you can sync everything outlook has ... through the cloud (that is if you work in a normal company that actually lets users check their mail when not at the office), so you don't need to be connected to anything, just need internet on the phone.
I configured the Exchange ActiveSync from my work account the phone and works like a charm, if i put an appointment on my phone it shows up on Outlook after a few minutes "just like that", if i put an appointment on Outlook it shows up on my phone "just like that". To tell you the truth since I got this phone, i never once hooked it to a computer, only transfered via Wi-Fi and Bluetooth sometimes.
foner78 said:
So basically you're here to have a rant because you made a poor choice when buying a phone. Fair enough.
For what it's worth, I work in IT, and I use the Desire to keep a watch on my company email and calendar, sync'ed from Exchange Server. Does the job just fine. I don't use notes in Outlook because what ever you want to do, there is always a better alternative, even a note app on the phone itself would do a better job.
Sent from my HTC Desire using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No man, I don't have a rant here, just trying to explain myself. It's not fair what happens to me here, because I asked a question and everybody jumped on me instead helping me. Exchange Server it's a great solution but unfortunately my company will not use a server for this. And for me there is no better alternative than Outlook, WE ARE DIFFERENT, accept it. I installed 10 notes apps, but none have sync with outlook. I know that I can use notes directly on phone but it's much easier on the laptop.
I repeat: I can, and probably I will return the phone. I love how it looks, dimensions, the hardware... and I was thinking that maybe because it's a software problem it can be solved. Why are so ... LOCKED ?
Any word on whether Google's working on a WP7 Google Maps app?
There's this: http://dotnetbyexample.blogspot.com/2010/10/google-maps-for-windows-phone-7.html, but of course, Google's TOS won't allow that to become useful.
There's also a suggestion in Google Mobile's product ideas page: http://productideas.appspot.com/#9/e=cf&t=windows+phone+7+maps
Bing is fine in parts of the U.S., but I'm sometimes in Mumbai and other cities around the world, where Bing Maps is atrociously poor.
I am hoping that either Microsoft improve their map service or Google brings their maps service to WP7.
so it's impossible to go to m.google.com/maps on a wp7 device and download google maps?
Doesn't this all look very similar to the anti-trust suites that occurred over Internet Explorer being bundled with Windows? I can't really see how having the MS service embedded into the OS doesn't break the same rules that IE was apparently breaking as a stand-alone but pre-installed program?
Hopefully we'll end up with a choice on first-run between Bing, Google and anyone else that wants to play so we can decide who we have integrated into the OS.
paulrockliffe said:
Doesn't this all look very similar to the anti-trust suites that occurred over Internet Explorer being bundled with Windows? I can't really see how having the MS service embedded into the OS doesn't break the same rules that IE was apparently breaking as a stand-alone but pre-installed program?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it doesn't because Microsoft has nowhere near the marketshare on smartphones that Windows has on desktops. And I think it's possible for Google to write and submit a Google Maps application for WP7 and in my opinion Microsoft will allow the application in the marketplace (because otherwise there will be a long discussion online that may affect the image of WP7 negatively).
paulrockliffe said:
Hopefully we'll end up with a choice on first-run between Bing, Google and anyone else that wants to play so we can decide who we have integrated into the OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the most likely scenario.
I am expecting Google Maps on WP7 a lot, because I can't deal with Bing Maps.
In France and some european countries Bing Maps is just crap.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=823953
Google just announced it. BTW, why would you want Google maps? I can't stand it compared to Bing on Phone 7.
There are 2 things I want from Google:
1. IE search to be changed from Yahoo! to Google (on the HTC HD7 in the UK), with search as you type and image search.
2. And of course, a fully featured YouTube app.
Bing is a decent mapping platform. The only feature it lacks is streetview.
kenikh said:
Google just announced it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If true, it's great
Bing Maps is slow, terribly slow outside the US
Bing Maps has no Street View
Bing search is inaccurate and uncomplete outside the US. It misses most of the things I'm looking for, and Google finds it immediately.
Google includes images search.
Why doesn't Bing have image search on WP7?
well at least now you can have Google Search on your Windows phone 7. http://www.phonedog.com/2010/11/08/google-search-app-for-windows-phone-7-now-available/
kenikh said:
Google just announced it. BTW, why would you want Google maps? I can't stand it compared to Bing on Phone 7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As for Europe, Poland, Bing is worse than Gooogle, especially in searching streets etc.
Where are you ppl coming up with Bing Maps for WP7? I have looked and looked all over the web and cannot find where Bing Maps (turn by turn nav) is. It isn't built into the Bing search app on my new HD7 nor is it available at the Market.
Press the Search button at the bottom right of your phone??? Works fine for me...BTW, wanna sell that HD7 you are sending back? Sux AT&T has crap hardware.
scroll to the right (the app list)... do you not have a "Maps" application there? It was built into my phone, it should be there for yours.
Bing would be alright, if they had public transportation built into their maps. That's why i love google maps lets me know when the next bus comes.
f1restarter said:
well at least now you can have Google Search on your Windows phone 7. http://www.phonedog.com/2010/11/08/google-search-app-for-windows-phone-7-now-available/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great that Google search comes to WP7 . At least we will have the option to search for some images (Bing doesn't even include this basic feature).
Hope Google Maps will come soon.
kenikh said:
Google just announced it. BTW, why would you want Google maps? I can't stand it compared to Bing on Phone 7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No Google maps yet (just a general Google search app).
As for why-- because Google Maps has vastly superior map and point of interest data in many, if not most, parts of the world than Bing Maps.
Apparently, somebody has already compiled Google Maps for Windows Phone 7. You'll still need a developer account to load it though.
day2die said:
Apparently, somebody has already compiled Google Maps for Windows Phone 7. You'll still need a developer account to load it though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On my phone at the moment (and of course WP7 can't do anything with files), but I'd guess that's probably the same deal as this: http://dotnetbyexample.blogspot.com/2010/10/google-maps-for-windows-phone-7.html
If so, that's just pulling map tiles from Google-- not enough to actually do anything useful, and Google's TOS doesn't allow it anyway.
So it is now in the Marketplace (!!!)
Called gMaps. Works.
it is not google maps... Google Maps have for example Latitude.
it's not a bad app, but i think that Bingle is better more features and scrolls smoother
there is a map app called Bingle Maps, it uses google maps... slow though...
Bingle > gMaps
http://mobilitydigest.com/bingle-mapsbing-and-google-maps-in-harmony-on-windows-phones/
Of course it's not original Google Maps.
However it's engine is based on Google so in the places where Bing is basically a joke
gMaps works.
There are several apps based on Google Maps available on the marketplace (TA Maps, Bingle Maps, gMaps, Advanced Maps Viewer, Cartes Pro or Maps Pro...)
But unfortunately there are all very slow. No StreetView, no Latitude. Most of the time the search function does not work at all.
My understanding is that, whatever the maps used, Microsoft force the developers to use part of the Bing system, the "Microsoft Bing maps control", which is so mediocre.
This is why maps images take such a long time to display.
This is why there is no cache memory that saves the last map image, etc...
Strangely I noticed that A-to-B is the only soft that display very quickly the map. Why?
Also Outdoor Navigation is a great app (using OpenStreetMaps), but still a bit slow. But search function works fine.
I believe we will never have Google Maps on WP7.
This is so unfair.
I hate Bing.
Why would you buy a phone with an OS from a company with a full services stack (PIM, Maps, Search, Productivity/Office, Media, etc.) and expect their main competitor to release basically a clone of their most prized app from their platform on it?
I do feel sorry for people who are stuck with Bing maps in areas where it's coverage isn't good, but... really... Why? I'm generally interested...
Microsoft and Google are fierce competitors. Don't expect any decent apps from Google outside of Google Search and Carriers Locking the browser search to Google on WP7 devices...
They won't do it. It's not even a good business decision from their standpoint, especially in their market position.
I'm sure some iOS/Android users would love Office Mobile, ZunePass, and XBL on their phones - but does it make sense? Well, for iOS they may eventually get it. Microsoft seems to love porting their stuff over to Apple's OS these days
N8ter,
Remember, Google Maps was available on WinMo... And it was pretty good.
At least there should be an official Google Maps for WP7.
It does not need to include all the features available on Android, of course, but at least the main characteristics.
To me Bing and Bing Map ruin the overall WP7 experience and makes me a disappointed customer.
I will not change my device now, but if only I knew few months ago that I would be stuck with Bing Map only then I would have probably chosen an Android device rather than WP7 My fault.
I actually made some use of Bing Maps the other day to get to a concert I was performing at and I thought it handled it really well.
It did a good job of tracking my location along the route, and listed landmarks at points to let you know you were on the right track. Was a real cool perk.
I have a whole different beef with the Maps app though, and that's that it doesn't do public transit directions. Which sucks, as the Bing Maps web app does.
arturobandini said:
N8ter,
Remember, Google Maps was available on WinMo... And it was pretty good.
At least there should be an official Google Maps for WP7.
It does not need to include all the features available on Android, of course, but at least the main characteristics.
To me Bing and Bing Map ruin the overall WP7 experience and makes me a disappointed customer.
I will not change my device now, but if only I knew few months ago that I would be stuck with Bing Map only then I would have probably chosen an Android device rather than WP7 My fault.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...It does not need to include all the features available on Android, of course, but at least the main characteristics.....
why the heck not ? less features is now a positive ? wtheck ?
The "funniest" thing is that you have Bing on every damned OS
and Google Maps also excluding.... WP7.
It doesn't make sense.
Anyway for those who love WP7 and doesn't want to switch those gMaps are good enough
to find a place and get position tracking. BTW this app is quite fast.
I don't think it has anything to do with Google being in competition with MS, it's because of WP7 lack of market share. That's why you see Bing on competing devices & Google Maps on iOS. The Bing team for example doesn't care about making WP7 look good, their goal is to get as many people using Bing as possible.
I bet there are divisions and people within MS that would like nothing more then to have WP7 fail, like the Windows group, so they will be able to put mobile under their control.
arturobandini said:
N8ter,
Remember, Google Maps was available on WinMo... And it was pretty good.
At least there should be an official Google Maps for WP7.
It does not need to include all the features available on Android, of course, but at least the main characteristics.
To me Bing and Bing Map ruin the overall WP7 experience and makes me a disappointed customer.
I will not change my device now, but if only I knew few months ago that I would be stuck with Bing Map only then I would have probably chosen an Android device rather than WP7 My fault.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep and without tbt navy and feature disparity compared to the android version. Unless ur a latitude user binge maps is superior to Google on winmo.
Still have my HD2. just checked them.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
phoneguy 4567 said:
I don't think it has anything to do with Google being in competition with MS, it's because of WP7 lack of market share. That's why you see Bing on competing devices & Google Maps on iOS. The Bing team for example doesn't care about making WP7 look good, their goal is to get as many people using Bing as possible.
I bet there are divisions and people within MS that would like nothing more then to have WP7 fail, like the Windows group, so they will be able to put mobile under their control.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes bit the its version is missing the same features the android version is. Lots of people get android because of the free turn by then and add on apps like tracks which are missing on non android devices.
Google also doesn't update the non android versions as well.
Microsoft should have release wp7 binge maps on feature equality with the wm version and just updated it when they switched to .ovi. There was nothing preventing them from doing that.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
My understanding is the WP7 team came up with their own version of Bing, which is separate from what the Bing team is working on. If MS doesn't care that WP7 has a worse implementation then competitors get why would Google care about WP7?
The problem is that Microsoft has better implementations for competitors products like wlm for ios, but Google would never allow a division of their company to support ios/android over or better than android. Microsoft does allow this apparently.
It doesn't help consumer confidence, and its just plain dumb.
That's why a Google maps app would only be about as good on wp7 as bing is right now, only using Google data (which would help some users). Google never release apps on other platforms on feature parity with their android apps.
Those complaining about binge search can use the Google app that may get pulled from marketplace soon since I think its just a webpage lol
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
P.s. Google would care about Wp7 because mining data from 1000001 users is better than mining data from 1000000. Google entire business model is built around monetizing user data. That's why they wasted no time in releasing their happy little Google search app and they have deals with carriers like t-mobile to lock the browser search to Google...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
same you "it is not google maps... Google Maps have for example Latitude."
gmaps is sloooowwww
Hello,
I have a sincere and honest question. I came to a conclusion but I hope I am wrong...
- I notice that several months after WP7's launch there is still no official Google Maps app, still no official YouTube app, still no Google Earth app, almost no GPS navigation apps with offline maps.
- All the non official Google Maps alternatives created by third party developers are pretty slow. I asked some developers why, and have been replied that the main reason is that Microsoft forces them to use the apparently sophisticated but very slow Bing map system based on Silverlight (for zooming). As a result the map image takes between 30 seconds to 1 full minute to display on my phone (what a shame). I tested and compared with two iPhone and Android phones using Google Maps, same place, same network, the map image appear in less than 10 seconds.
- Today Shape Services, the developer of IM+ announced that it will not have Windows Live Messenger support because Microsoft doesn’t allow it.
http://www.wpcentral.com/im-will-not-support-windows-live-messenger
Therefore I am starting to wonder why I cannot have Google Maps on my phone. Why so many GPS developers (such as CoPilot or Tom Tom) refuse to join WP7. Or why IM+ cannot have Windows Live Messenger support.... ??
And unfortunately my conclusion is that MS are maybe taking this terrible approach:
* MS refuse to allow apps that they think will duplicate functionality,
* Mainly MS actually want to impose their own services, such as Live Messenger, Skydrive, Bing and Bing Map, despite such services are either not available or mediocre in certain territories. In particular I am thinking of Bing Map which is so bad that it is almost unusable outside UK and US.
Microsoft have the right to take this kind of Apple's approach, ok. But then, as a customer, I would like to know it as soon as possible.
--> Practically does it mean that if I am using WP7 I will be forced to use Bing Map instead of Google Maps, MSN videos instead of YouTube, Bing instead of Google search, etc?
--> Practically does it mean that, as a customer, I will not have the choice between several alternative apps having similar functionality, just because MS will not allow them? For instance, does it mean I will never have the right to use an alternative Keyboard (Swype for instance) instead of the keyboard MS force me to use?
For instance does it mean that there will be no alternative player than Zune? (which also means no DivX|avi, the customer being bound to the only codecs MS will allow)
If so, I would like to know, because it's a weird philosophy, and a philosophy which I am definitely not ready to accept anytime soon... I don't want WP7 to be a new IPhone, even more locked down, with no freedom of choice at all...
Especially if I am totally not satisfied with the quality and efficiency of the various MS services such as Bing.
I probably made the wrong choice after WinMo and was maybe silly to stay loyal to MS.
Am I wrong?
Any clue?
It is google blocking its services from microsoft. They want android to succeed so they dont even give us the code for a youtube app (they gave it to apple for the origional iphone) let alone a google maps. Half of that is pure speculation so don't quote me on it but u try to watch a video in the stock YouTube app (the one in the market made by microsoft) and tell me how it looks.
Not sure why you are surprised, MS has made it clear that WP7 is going to be more tightly controlled than WM was but even then, they are not as draconian as you think. There is a gps program with offline maps available in Germany, Navigon. They have been asked several times if/when their program would be available elsewhere and their response seemed to indicate they were waiting for more users to come on board before releasing it.
As for youtube, MS recently filed a complaint in Europe against google claiming they are not allowing MS the proper access to deliver a better youtube experience. Even then, you have Supertube and Lazytube so I'm not sure what else is needed.
As for google maps, thats a google product and unless it is required that all mapping programs use bing (which is not the case, check GPS Navigator aSpass http://wmpoweruser.com/gps-navigator-aspass-provides-off-like-gps-map-caching/) that is up to google to make available. Swype wont be happening, been said a few time if I recall correctly.
Seems this time around MS it keeping a tight reign on certain categories of applications to ensure WP7 gives a consistent user experience. Just another factor to consider before purchasing a WP7 device.
Thanks for your replies,
So, i understand that WP7 will never have any official YouTube app or any official Google Maps app in the near future.
I can deal with LazyTube/SuperTube to replace YouTube
I cannot deal without the official Google Maps app, as all the other maps are too slow and too basic (no PoI, no Street View, etc).
And what about the fact that Microsoft refuses that Shape Services includes Windows Live Messenger support in IM+
And mainly, what about the fact that it seems almost impossible on WP7 to have:
- an alternative keyboard
- an alternative browser
- an alternative media player?
Whatever IE mobile is ok, whatever the WP7 keyboard is correct, it is a question of choice.
What about if people would like to use Swype instead of the regular WP7 keyboard, or Opera instead of IE?
At least would it be just possible to use such alternative programs? Or is MS' approach to forbid any alternative app?
efjay said:
Seems this time around MS it keeping a tight reign on certain categories of applications to ensure WP7 gives a consistent user experience. Just another factor to consider before purchasing a WP7 device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be fine only if services proposed by Microsoft were available worldwide (which is not the case) and were decent (which is not the case).
Well about the browser, I can't remember where I read it, but MS said that they are not blocking any browser application (Surfcube is a example)
Newness and Nokia
Hi all
I think that the problems and limitations of WP7 are to do with the fact that it is a new OS. The Mango update will bring a lot of APIs which developers will use to make better applications.
Also, I don't think Microsoft will let WP7, or any of it's main products, fall far behind the competition and I think that part of the deal with Nokia is to bring better mapping/navigation software to WP7 specifically.
Android has clearly had a lot more investment but in a couple of years WP7 will be a serious competitor.
Cheers
andrew-in-woking
arturobandini said:
Hello...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You've expressed your issues with Bing Maps a lot here but as I said before Microsoft is probably waiting on Ovi Maps to integrate into the OS to make the services useful outside of the US/UK. So I think your frustration will last a little while.
As for Google services I would guess it's more about Google not being interested in WP7 at the moment and Microsoft being happy to have that pretext to promote Bing. It's a new OS so I'm sure that will change eventually. Also remember Microsoft filed a complaint about Google so I might not be too far off.
Copilot, Tom Tom, etc. not being there is just about them not seeing the point with a small user base, that should change too eventually.
Now choice I'm afraid will stay limited. I think clearly WP7 wants to be somewhere between Android and iOS but much closer to iOS (for now at least). I think they will want the OS to mature before allowing alternative solutions (Opera and Skyfire came a while later on iOS). So yes I think you bought the wrong phone as I doubt all this will change in the short term and maybe Android is what you need until WP7 is a strong player.
Personally I'm happy the way things are as WP7 aims to be an OS about integration and that's harder to make when there's too much choice. I'm annoyed about IM+ not having WLM messenger but after Mango that would have been redundant (I would have preferred to have it until Mango, they could have removed it later). Ideally they should be aiming to integrate all IM services to messaging (a huge task). Same goes for other services.
gremmmy said:
Well about the browser, I can't remember where I read it, but MS said that they are not blocking any browser application (Surfcube is a example)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Surfcube is still IE at its core though.
gremmmy said:
Well about the browser, I can't remember where I read it, but MS said that they are not blocking any browser application (Surfcube is a example)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not completely correct. Surfcube - just like other browsers available on the marketplace - is built upon the IE engine. So all that's different from IE is the UI on top of the engine. Currently it's impossible to provide browsers with other engines like Opera for example due to the lack of APIs. I don't know whether this will change with mango or not.
As a matter of fact, Microsoft is at least partly going a way Apple has been going with their products for years. If you want a mobile device with an OS that you can tweak to your personal desires, you should go for an Android.
Remember, APIs for wp are in their infancy, mango will extend them, who knows how much. But a company like Microsoft push out they first party app and services first is fine with me. If they work right, I won't have to look for an app that does the exact same thing. I love the fact that I don't have to load a crappy Facebook app just to post one thing, or having a built-in upload to Facebook in the camera. And now with the new APIs with integrating apps into different hubs and apps, should "save us from our phones" more.
And for IM+ it could be API isn't available for Live messager.
I'm afraid we won't see any Google Maps before Ovi integration with Bing.
As for browsers all available now are just IE with different UI.
I remember Opera saying they are not interested in making a browser right now.
no loss there, who uses windows live anyway? I spent an hour on the phone a couple of days ago trying to explain to one of my computer illiterate friends how to use it. I eventually had to install it with him and discovered the incredibly horrible and terrible UI.. won't miss it one bit.
pillsburydoughman said:
no loss there, who uses windows live anyway?
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Click to collapse
That's the most used IM client worldwide.
pillsburydoughman said:
no loss there, who uses windows live anyway? I spent an hour on the phone a couple of days ago trying to explain to one of my computer illiterate friends how to use it. I eventually had to install it with him and discovered the incredibly horrible and terrible UI.. won't miss it one bit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why didn't you just have him go to www.live.com?
And as stated, its the most used IM in the world. Skype is second.
pillsburydoughman said:
no loss there, who uses windows live anyway? I spent an hour on the phone a couple of days ago trying to explain to one of my computer illiterate friends how to use it. I eventually had to install it with him and discovered the incredibly horrible and terrible UI.. won't miss it one bit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
skype will have Microsoft logo soon..... and it will be on WP7 included in the OS...
and as someone said Windows live massanger is the most used IM in the world..
if the idea is to impose their own services they wouldnt have allowed flory (gtalk) and they would reject im+ (for using icq, gtalk, and many other non ms services).
if this was the idea they would have rejected shazam encore, since they are going to implement the same service.
unfourtunately i suspect that the issue with wlm is the deal they made with miyowa
as you can see they talk about a a "deal" between miyowa and microsoft for wlm
http://blog.miyowa.com/?p=1118
just search more posts and you can see they mention multiple times have some sort of agreement...
i know its far fetched but i think its more likely that the agreement they made included exclusivity until ms made their own native app. IMO this sounds more reasonable than not allowing duplicated functionality
edit:
personally i hate this, i would like to uninstall the miyowa app (its crap) and use im+ while we wait for native wlm.
revrak said:
if the idea is to impose their own services they wouldnt have allowed flory (gtalk) and they would reject im+ (for using icq, gtalk, and many other non ms services).
if this was the idea they would have rejected shazam encore, since they are going to implement the same service.
unfourtunately i suspect that the issue with wlm is the deal they made with miyowa
as you can see they talk about a a "deal" between miyowa and microsoft for wlm
http://blog.miyowa.com/?p=1118
just search more posts and you can see they mention multiple times have some sort of agreement...
i know its far fetched but i think its more likely that the agreement they made included exclusivity until ms made their own native app. IMO this sounds more reasonable than not allowing duplicated functionality
edit:
personally i hate this, i would like to uninstall the miyowa app (its crap) and use im+ while we wait for native wlm.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You might have a point there as everything gets dropped except Miyoma Messenger which is so crap I'd rather not have WLM rather than using it. They should be banned from making another app ever again.
revrak said:
unfourtunately i suspect that the issue with wlm is the deal they made with miyowa
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or it may be with the way IM+ implemented WLM functionality. This could've taken some reverse engineering.
revrak said:
if the idea is to impose their own services they wouldnt have allowed flory (gtalk) and they would reject im+ (for using icq, gtalk, and many other non ms services).
if this was the idea they would have rejected shazam encore, since they are going to implement the same service.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And don't forget that just-added official Evernote app, which kind of directly competes with the OneNote/SkyDrive/Mesh combo (and currently beats it, IMO).
There have been posts about this here and there, but most of them are just asking for advice on how to do it. I plan to follow through and document the solutions I find.
Why, you ask? I don't like Google having so much data on me. I used to not care but in today's environment with SOPA and new NSA data centers and whatnot, well... maybe I'm paranoid but I don't necessarily want anyone to so easily have such a complete profile of all my searches, contacts, location history, etc. Anyway, if you think it's dumb, ok, got it, move along please.
So if I don't like Google then why use Android? Well, a couple of reasons. First of all, Google is not Android. Android is maintained by the Android Open Source Project, which in turn is made up of members of the Open Handset Alliance. Yes, Google is the lead member of the Open Handset Alliance, and yes most of the developers working on the Android Open Source Project are Google employees. But I've been following Android for long enough now to know that Google and Android are for all practical purposes separate entities.
The second reason is because Android is simply the best mobile operating system on the planet right now, and it is free open-source software. I use Ubuntu on my laptop, and I'm not interested in switching to Windows or Mac, so that pretty much rules out iPhone or Windows Phone right there.
But isn't Android really Google's OS? Yes and No. As I mentioned, Google does pretty much run the AOSP, along with device manufacturers. But AOSP is very "provider agnostic." Much of what you see on your phone is not from AOSP. The Galaxy Nexus is a GOOGLE device, not an AOSP device. Gmail, Maps, Market, Location Tracking, etc are all GOOGLE ADDITIONS and are NOT a part of AOSP! When you build AOSP from source (or Cyanogenmod), you end up with an agnostic, neutral device that has practically no mention of anything Google whatsoever.
But what about what you DONT have in AOSP? No Market??? No Gmail??? How can you possibly use Android without these things? Well that is exactly what I intend to find out.
Please feel free to contribute to the discussion with ideas and questions. Hopefully this thread can eventually be helpful for someone else who comes along and wants to do something similar.
More posts to follow as I progress....
EDIT: I should add, I also will try to avoid other "free" services like Yahoo! and Hotmail-- basically anyone who wants to run bots through your mail to sell you ads or sell your data to others who want to sell you ads, etc. I will be trying to use open-source or for-pay services where possible (if it's "free" then YOU'RE the product!).
I commend your ambition, but this is nothing new. There are already non-Google Android handsets an tablets on the market. The Kindle Fire, for example, is non-Google.
You can do the same with a GNex. Just don't add a Google account or use a ROM without the gapps. Install the Amazon App Store, change your default search, and away you go.
please...stay safe
Personally the only Google apps I use are Gmail and the Play store, with an occasional use of maps and goggles.
Having a market is really just for convenience, you could install with APKs like on Windows you have to install from EXEs or MSIs. And if you're that against google you could just use the Amazon marketplace for stuff, though I've heard they take longer to receive updates.
In all honesty I don't know what to suggest except flashing 100% and not signing into Google services in any way or form. What you are asking is not possible unless you use apks from non market source and using Hotmail or something.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus expect possible typos.
If somebody figure out how to use Calendar, without creating google account for at least one time, or tell me the alternative calendar (not just widget) that will not sync with google, it would be nice. For example Smasung TW Launcher has it's own calendar, that you can choose, without google, but pure ICS does not have.
I have tryed many alternative, such as Jorte, Pocket Informant, etc, but they are far away from stock ...
I use:
1mobile.net
4shared.com (You also get 15gb cloud space free)
appbrain.com (get app from 4shared)
I absolutely love Google and all of their services. You're crazy! Good luck with it though.
Somebody needs to come out with a tinfoil hat edition ROM.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
sashavegas said:
If somebody figure out how to use Calendar, without creating google account for at least one time, or tell me the alternative calendar (not just widget) that will not sync with google, it would be nice. For example Smasung TW Launcher has it's own calendar, that you can choose, without google, but pure ICS does not have.
I have tryed many alternative, such as Jorte, Pocket Informant, etc, but they are far away from stock ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
THIS is the point of the thread. Replacing Android Market with Amazon App Stores is completely simple and obvious. Getting contacts and calendar syncing, things like that are not so obvious. Mainly because I am not only going to avoid Google, but other services like Yahoo! or Hotmail, etc (anything that's "free" so they can monetize your data).
Stay off the grid bro
Sent from my francoPhone
ChongoDroid said:
Stay off the grid bro
Sent from my francoPhone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly! Lol.
Once you're connected to the internet, you're pretty much open to everyone... You can go offline if you don't want any of these... It's not only google... There's ways you can go anonymous like using proxy.... Using search engine that don't track search data... Google has an option for you to opt-in or opt out... Just like the previous responses, you can use amazon but don't think amazon doesn't track you also... How would they know what to recommend you... Google don't force users to stick only to them... And that's why I like google for this reason only...
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4g with Beats Audio
matt2053 said:
THIS is the point of the thread. Replacing Android Market with Amazon App Stores is completely simple and obvious. Getting contacts and calendar syncing, things like that are not so obvious. Mainly because I am not only going to avoid Google, but other services like Yahoo! or Hotmail, etc (anything that's "free" so they can monetize your data).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There should be some third party app that will do these things, well you use linux, you should know that there's a lot of alternatives... Try if the software you use in ubuntu are available for android
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4g with Beats Audio
Try this one, if you use thunderbird. Seems decent...
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.callicia.birdiesync
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4g with Beats Audio
AndroidNeophyte said:
Once you're connected to the internet, you're pretty much open to everyone... You can go offline if you don't want any of these... It's not only google... There's ways you can go anonymous like using proxy.... Using search engine that don't track search data... Google has an option for you to opt-in or opt out... Just like the previous responses, you can use amazon but don't think amazon doesn't track you also... How would they know what to recommend you... Google don't force users to stick only to them... And that's why I like google for this reason only...
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4g with Beats Audio
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The point isn't really to be 100% anonymous. That would require a dumbphone with prepaid sim or VPN/Proxy setups etc, and that's not what I'm look at. The point is to make an experiment and see how "non-Google" AOSP really is and how useful it is as a mobile OS on its own, without Google proprietary add-ons. Many people say you "have to have a Gmail account to use Android," or "you have to sync your contacts through Gmail" etc and I want to show people how they can do it without Google if they so choose.
AndroidNeophyte said:
Try this one, if you use thunderbird. Seems decent...
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.callicia.birdiesync
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4g with Beats Audio
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I saw that one and I plan to try it out. I do use Thunderbird, thanks!
AOSP + open source Exchange alternative for syncing Calendar/Email/Contacts hosted on your own server (ie Zimbra)
Sideload all apps
Voila!
matt2053 said:
THIS is the point of the thread. Replacing Android Market with Amazon App Stores is completely simple and obvious. Getting contacts and calendar syncing, things like that are not so obvious. Mainly because I am not only going to avoid Google, but other services like Yahoo! or Hotmail, etc (anything that's "free" so they can monetize your data).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
XDA monetizes your data. Every website does; that's how they pay for hosting and bandwidth.
Use a different calendar app and sync your contacts to Outlook, or just back them up somewhere.
Alright, but you should really start off removing the antenna from your smartphone. Then compile AOSP, don't flash GApps, sideload all APK files.
There, now you're off the grid. Enjoy boredom and next to no convenient functionality.