Related
http://apcmag.com/microsoft-no-windows-phone-7-upgrade-for-windows-mobile-6x-devices.htm
Owners of HTC’s highly-praised HD2 touchscreen smartphone will be unable to upgrade the device to Microsoft’s new Windows Phone 7 software when the OS is released towards the end of the year.
Despite the HD2 meeting many of the criteria laid down in Microsoft’s ‘Chassis 1’ spec – including a 1GHz Qualcomm processor, high-res capacitive touch display, 5 megapixel camera and 3.5mm headphone jack – the phone will be ruled out for the simple reason that it has five buttons instead of the three mandated for all Windows Phone 7 devices.
That’s the official line from Microsoft, at any rate. Natasha Kwan, General Manager for Microsoft’s Mobile Communications Business in the Asia-Pacific region, told APC that the HD2 “doesn’t qualify because it doesn’t have the three buttons”.
At least officially, but un-officially I would bet that some gurus from XDA-dev will make it happen ... when the WP7S is available end of this year. They should be able to get the ROM and port it to HD2. That's my feeling.
And there is still hope this will be negated on the next MIX10 .... Microsoft will say "That's not true, HD2 is upgradeable to WP7S and here is the beta ROM you can put and test"
This .. its just... don't have words 4 this..
Now its all up to the devs..
That well and truly Sux ....
But i have very little to worry about
We're at XDA's !!!!!!!!
gogol said:
At least officially, but un-officially I would bet that some gurus from XDA-dev will make it happen ... when the WP7S is available end of this year. They should be able to get the ROM and port it to HD2. That's my feeling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, as has been pointed out in many other threads, producing a cooked ROM based on a new CE kernel is a completely different proposition from porting between different versions of WM5 and 6. Whether we see a cooked HD2 ROM based on WP7 is pretty much entirely dependent on three things:
1) There needs to be a beta WP7 ROM for the HD2 produced by Microsoft and/or HTC. (Evidence that this exists is strong, but not absolutely conclusive).
2) The beta version has to be recent enough that there is no change to the driver architecture between it and the released version.
3) The beta has to be leaked.
IMO, the last of those is not by any means guaranteed this time round.
I hardly think that because the HD2 has 2 extra buttons this would prevent WP7S from running on it! Seriously, who are they trying to kid?
Hmm, there's some more stuff in the linked article that the original poster doesn't quote:
There could be more to this than just the sin of having two buttons too many, however: Tony Wilkinson, Business Operations Director for Microsoft Australia, told APC that “there are some hardware components that the HD doesn’t have”.
We’re not sure what those are because Microsoft has not revealed its complete recipe for Windows Phone 7 devices – that’s due to take place at this month’s MIX developer conference in Las Vegas – but we’ve heard that a pixel-pushing graphics chip might be on the checklist.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Assuming that it's not just a matter of buttons, I'd say that makes even an unofficial HD2 port a bit less likely, but we'll see.
Completely understood.
We could wait that ROM anyway, whether leaked or come from official WP7S phone later this year or God knows where.
There are many amazing things which were unthinkable done by XDA devs here. They just too many to mention here ... HTC Kaiser missing drivers, WM6.5 on <insert HTC devices>, Android on WM, etc.
Even if it could not be done, but having HOPE is not a bad thing ...
However, certainly, this could potentially put a halt on HD2 sales.
Shasarak said:
Well, as has been pointed out in many other threads, producing a cooked ROM based on a new CE kernel is a completely different proposition from porting between different versions of WM5 and 6. Whether we see a cooked HD2 ROM based on WP7 is pretty much entirely dependent on three things:
1) There needs to be a beta WP7 ROM for the HD2 produced by Microsoft and/or HTC. (Evidence that this exists is strong, but not absolutely conclusive).
2) The beta version has to be recent enough that there is no change to the driver architecture between it and the released version.
3) The beta has to be leaked.
IMO, the last of those is not by any means guaranteed this time round.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ruudfood said:
I hardly think that because the HD2 has 2 extra buttons this would prevent WP7S from running on it! Seriously, who are they trying to kid?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It could certainly be enough to prevent an official WP7 upgrade for the HD2, and we now have word from an actual Microsoft representative which suggeststhat this is indeed the case.
That reminds me, where's Freyberry? He owes a number of people a grovelling apology for insulting them when they suggested that the buttons on the HD2 might have an impact on WP7 availability....
gogol said:
Even if it could not be done, but having HOPE is not a bad thing ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Having hope is a bad thing if anyone buys an HD2 because of that hope, only to have it proven unrealistic.
gogol said:
We could wait that ROM anyway, whether leaked or come from official WP7S phone later this year or God knows where.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A ROM from an official WP7S phone almost certainly wouldn't be adequate. Unless every single hardware component in it is identical to the HD2, you would still have no way of getting hold of the necessary drivers. So if, say, the camera in this phone wasn't the same as the one in the HD2, then it would be impossible to make a cooked WP7 HD2 ROM from it in which the camera works. The only way you could do it is if there is a group of official WP7S phones which between them contain every single component in the HD2 - not just the chipset but the camera, proximity sensor, touchscreen, everything.
I bet the "5 buttons" reason is a bad excuse to not having to reveal more info prior to MIX.
My guess that this reason is BS because of the announcement of LG's first WP7 phone, this is taken from the article about it on neowin:
The device sports a QWERTY slide-out keyboard as well as a touch screen and the three standard Windows Phone 7 prescribed buttons: back, home and search. Other buttons include power, camera and volume controls.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
source:
http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-reveals-first-windows-phone-7-series-handset-from-lg
Obviously this phone has more buttons than the HD2 and will be running WP7.
Shasarak said:
It could certainly be enough to prevent an official WP7 upgrade for the HD2, and we now have word from an actual Microsoft representative which suggeststhat this is indeed the case.
That reminds me, where's Freyberry? He owes a number of people a grovelling apology for insulting them when they suggested that the buttons on the HD2 might have an impact on WP7 availability....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No comment on this he he he
Shasarak said:
Having hope is a bad thing if anyone buys an HD2 because of that hope, only to have it proven unrealistic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are correct, but I also said:
However, certainly, this could potentially put a halt on HD2 sales.
What I mean with hope is for "current owner" of HD2
Shasarak said:
A ROM from an official WP7S phone almost certainly wouldn't be adequate. Unless every single hardware component in it is identical to the HD2, you would still have no way of getting hold of the necessary drivers. So if, say, the camera in this phone wasn't the same as the one in the HD2, then it would be impossible to make a cooked WP7 HD2 ROM from it in which the camera works. The only way you could do it is if there is a group of official WP7S phones which between them contain every single component in the HD2 - not just the chipset but the camera, proximity sensor, touchscreen, everything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fully understand. But do you think all the hardware components would be exactly different?
Learning from past experience, most if not all past devices still have the same hardware components. That's why XDA can still port WM6.5 to some of old devices.
Why would suddenly the hardware is now totally differents?
Even if it is new hardware component, I would think it will be backward compatible with the old hardware.
Well, it could be that the new OS requires to use "new drivers format" for that "old hardware" (HD2) ...
That is quite obvious.
So, either the new WP7S devices are still using most the same hardware components, which means the WP7S drivers will be somehow backward compatible with old hardware.
Or, some super clever XDA dev will create new drivers for HD2 using new device driver format of WP7S. This sounds impossible, but .... who knows?
I won't believe any article until MIX. Especially an article which doesn't mention the HD2 in the quote
I see the words "current phones" and "HD", but no HD2 in there. But hey, I'm clutching at straws now really!
gogol said:
Or, some super clever XDA dev will create new drivers for HD2 using new device driver format of WP7S. This sounds impossible, but .... who knows?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
New kernel, relatively new architecture will mean that it will be effectively like porting HD2 to Android...only with zero documentation.
reverse-engineering drivers? just look at the problems present in android-development... ^^ the problem is you need exact (!) specifications of the hardware to start with - and that's closed-source. even after that it's not easy.
but even IF some magician would pull this off, i have learned one thing with the x1: not having an official firmware adapted to the OS you want to use deprives you of a stable base, it will always be patchwork at best. (and i'm talking 6.1 -> 6.5 here, where the difference isn't that big)
I was going to buy a touch hd2 for 425 off craigslist with the complete idea that this phone would be wp7s. Seeing that it won't has left me stay with my reliable tp2...
its a shame actually I wanted the hd2 to be wp7s for obvious reasons
If this is true I will sell my hd2 soon!
I mean the buttons... its nothing but a lie, its not the true reason!
They could have told more early that the HD2 wont get an upgrade they just didnt because they want to sell it!
Then the "russian twitter" thing was only marketing to sell a phone with dead OS..
But I still don't realy believe this.. windows [email protected] told that "there 'may' be information next month".. well it is " next month" but the hd2 wasnt mentioned directly as far as I can see..
Cheers
If the buttons are the culprit, I bet the problem isn't the extra buttons, but lack of the Search button. Sure the Home one could be remapped, but what about consistency, ease of use for consumers etc.?
Blade0rz said:
I won't believe any article until MIX. Especially an article which doesn't mention the HD2 in the quote
I see the words "current phones" and "HD", but no HD2 in there. But hey, I'm clutching at straws now really!
New kernel, relatively new architecture will mean that it will be effectively like porting HD2 to Android...only with zero documentation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, it looks like nothing is set in stone yet:
http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2010...-because-of-hardware-buttons-dont-be-so-sure/
chris5932 said:
I mean the buttons... its nothing but a lie, its not the true reason!
They could have told more early that the HD2 wont get an upgrade they just didnt because they want to sell it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be a good reason for HTC not to offer the upgrade, but I don't see how Microsoft sells more WP7 licences by not allowing the HD2 to be upgraded. From Microsoft's perspective what matters is getting an absolutely consistent look-and-feel across all WP7 phones. So I find it plausible that Microsoft might refuse to sell HTC any licences to install WP7 on HD2's, given the lack of a search button.
I'm not giving up hope yet though. They've already announced the button requirement. If the HD2 was going to be disqualified for this reason why not say so? I don't think this is over. She's all the way on the other side of the planet from Redmond and most likely less 'in the know' just for this reason. Just this Saturday a much more knowledgeable MS rep said 'Wait for MIX' in regards to the HD2 getting an upgrade.
The statement leads me to believe that the MS rep in a far flung region is just interpreting the 3 button requirement to automatically mean that MS won't allow any current devices to get the upgrade and not them having actual info that the HD2 will specifically not get the upgrade. That and MS will need to get some sort of hardware in devs hands before official availability. An emulator is nice and all but real hardware is key. The HD2 is supposedly launching here in the States right after MIX. Coincidence? Maybe I'm just grasping at straws but fingers crossed nonetheless.
Shasarak said:
Well, as has been pointed out in many other threads, producing a cooked ROM based on a new CE kernel is a completely different proposition from porting between different versions of WM5 and 6. Whether we see a cooked HD2 ROM based on WP7 is pretty much entirely dependent on three things:
1) There needs to be a beta WP7 ROM for the HD2 produced by Microsoft and/or HTC. (Evidence that this exists is strong, but not absolutely conclusive).
2) The beta version has to be recent enough that there is no change to the driver architecture between it and the released version.
3) The beta has to be leaked.
IMO, the last of those is not by any means guaranteed this time round.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you're making some assumptions that aren't fair to make at this point in time. If the hardware is nearly identical to the HD2 (which it will be) why would it need an entirely new bootloader as compared to other WP7 devices? #2 (and therefore 3 as well) doesn't even make sense as they're developing this on CE. It's not like they're going to change CE versions mid-dev. The driver architecture won't change. MS has stated that they're doing all the driver dev, not the OEMs. As long as the HD2 matches the chassis specs, there's no reason it will need different drivers. The only thing that concerns me is the bootloader as it's my understanding that it's unique per device and likely a WM6 bootloader won't be able to boot WP7.
Shasarak said:
That would be a good reason for HTC not to offer the upgrade, but I don't see how Microsoft sells more WP7 licences by not allowing the HD2 to be upgraded. From Microsoft's perspective what matters is getting an absolutely consistent look-and-feel across all WP7 phones. So I find it plausible that Microsoft might refuse to sell HTC any licences to install WP7 on HD2's, given the lack of a search button.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I agree with most ppl here.. lets just wait til MIX..
There are severall things said that fight each other!
MS:"info for hd2 may next month","no upgrade for WinM 6.X phones"
HTC:"HD2 is able to run WP7's",
HTC twitter:"HD2 will get an upgrade" ..
I think the chances are still as before the article but make ur own guess.
Cheers
I wonder if microsoft is using some sort of qualcomm system on chip like there new MSM7x30 soc. As microsoft is only letting snapdragon devices, im sure they have a certain gpu that they have to use so the performance is the same on all handsets. so a SOC would make sense and that might be why the hd2 does not meet the specs.
Also i dont think the hd2 has 4 point multi touch.
Also i think microsoft wont let them upgrade as they wont 3 buttons only on the front so to let the hd2 have a upgrade on to wm7 makes a mockery of wm7 requirements.
Now that WP7 has been ported to the HD2, I was wondering if there was any chance it would get ported the the DInc. The hardware is similar, so it should be possible. However, I'm not a dev so I could be totally wrong.
drmacinyasha said:
Simple answer:
Not going to happen.
Why?
Android is open. The devs can modify the source to tailor it to a device. Windows Mobile and iOS are not.[/thread]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Khilbron said:
There won't ever be a worthwhile WP7 port unless you can remove the stick from M$'s butt, because as Team DFT put it "Microsoft's Genuine Software check will basically disable all cloud based services like Zune, Marketplace and Xbox Live if the system can't pull a valid key from the handset's motherboard."
Which means, if your device wasn't pre-loaded with WP7, WP7 won't work on your device. Now they have ported it to other phones, and run it, calls, ect. They just can't access the materials that make WP7 what it is.
So you will need to expect to buy and install a mod chip in your Evo to trick a future WP7 port into thinking your phone is a WP7 phone, or you will need to accept the fact that no phone other than a WP7 phone will be able to fully utilize the software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sooooo... No, don't count on it. You can make very nice WP7 themes though.
adriantannerisb said:
Now that WP7 has been ported to the HD2, I was wondering if there was any chance it would get ported the the DInc. The hardware is similar, so it should be possible. However, I'm not a dev so I could be totally wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can it be ported, yes.
Will it ever be a fully working port, highly doubtful.
If you guys are interested in hacking Windows Phone 7, you may be interested in a security conference called #44con that will be running in September.
There is going to be an awesome talk by Alex Plaskett of MWR on Windows Phone 7 security.
In the interests of full disclosure, I work with Alex at MWR and MWR are also sponsoring the event; however even if I didn't and we weren't - I'd still be shouting about it and wouldn't miss it!
Check it out - the technical track is pretty awesome.
Just google 44con
Hacking as in running homebrew XNA/Silverlight, homebrew native COM DLLs, or homebrew native executables?
Windows Pwn 7 OEM - Owned Every Mobile?
This is the synopsis of the talk:
Windows Pwn 7 OEM - Owned Every Mobile?
Thinking about buying a Windows Phone 7 Phone? You need to see this. The talk will aim to provide an introduction into the Windows Phone 7 (WP7) security model to allow security professionals and application developers understand the unique platform security features offered. Currently very little public information is available about Windows Phone 7 OS security preventing adequate determination of the risk exposed by WP7 devices.
The ever increasing challenges and stages of exploitation an attacker has to overcome to achieve full compromise will be discussed. The talk will outline the implementation of these security features and will demonstrate weaknesses and vulnerabilities an attacker could use to bypass the multiple levels of platform security.
A number of OEM manufacturer weaknesses, "features?" will be discussed and a demonstration of how these "features" can be abused in conjunction with conventional exploits to achieve full compromise of the phone will be performed. The talk will demonstrate how OEM phone manufacturers can weaken the security posture of an otherwise strong granular security model and also demonstrate how targeted attacks can be made which leverage this OEM .functionality. to compromise sensitive information.
Biography
Alex is a security consultant at MWR InfoSecurity and has a passion for bug hunting and exploit Development. Alex has previously identified a number of serious vulnerabilities in IBM software (Lotus Domino, WebSphere MQ) and is currently interested in embedded systems security.
nmonkee said:
A number of OEM manufacturer weaknesses
<skipped>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This guy, Alex, seems like already read all XDA WP7 hack forums
nmonkee said:
This is the synopsis of the talk:Biography
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds juicy. I am will be anticipating the talk.
Hm just found out about Alex talks at 44con and Bluehat 2011. Any chance that his slides could be published? Or was anyone of you there and could summarize it a little bit? I am curious to know if he mentioned something brand new or if its something known to the OEM DLL files everybody is using thanks to the XDA forum
If anyone is interested in the slides:
http://labs.mwrinfosecurity.com/files/Publications/mwri_wp7-bluehat-technical_2011-11-08.pdf
Here are 2 vulns:
http://labs.mwrinfosecurity.com/advisories/samsung_omnia_directory_traversal/
http://labs.mwrinfosecurity.com/advisories/htc_kernel_read_write_vulnerability/
Maybe it's interesting for someone..
Thx, I've seen the slides a few days ago. Pretty deep stuff. However, he still needed to combine several exploits to get TCB access. I guess thats somewhat the same thing Heathcliff tried for his Root Tools Further research in OEM vulnerabilities could prove interesting, especially after the recent HTC update that was combined with the Mango Update 7720.
Before you start to think I am about to scream "GPL, GPL, GPL," stop for a second, take a deep breath, and sympathize with the thousands of power users and developers who have been left in the dark and/or ignored in regard to their device being partially unlocked with a seeming false advertisement. This is an opinionated piece in the regard of actually getting what we asked for and were promised to receive.
Not long ago, users and developers alike relied heavily on hackers and logic to achieve S-OFF to get the full experience of their desire for a great(er) experience on their Android phone. Some people buy an overlay device like HTC with Sense, Motorola with Blur, and so on, knowing what entails when they get it, but they anticipate running a stock experience or a heavily optimized build from one of the developers in this community. Recently we took a moment to talk with ToastCFH and Dees_Troy from TeamWin, who are responsible for HTC Dumlock. HTC Dumlock makes the unlocked device further accessible for a few more phones.
Last week we purchased some T-Mobile One S units for our developers and one of them was chosen to go for a test drive and to try out HTC Dev Bootloader Unlock. This is where we got to know each other and a bit more about HTC's online utility, which nonetheless has disappointed thousands more than just a bit. I am going to let everyone know now: do not plan on just stopping at rooting this and calling it a day, I tried to remove bloat with Root Explorer and came to a brick wall of denial. I found out you also cannot flash custom kernels in recovery mode.
"What is affected in retrospect when I unlock?" Let me answer that: It actually cripples your phone. It's probably less risky to take a chance and go for an S-OFF method that could potentially brick your device. As per numerous reports, and some insight from ToastCFH and Dees_Troy, there is a plethora of issues with this process and many gripes and speculation just coming from myself.
A cobb without a Kernel: Flashing a kernel is similar to trying out walking on coals. You have to do the following (coming from ToastCFH at XDA):
fastboot boot recovery alternaterecovery.img
Here's some thought: If you flash a crap/test kernel that doesn't boot, not only can you not pull the battery you have to relentlessly use your power button to get yourself out of the mess to get the phone to shut off (HTC One series). The reason you can do it through "booting" recovery as opposed of using the one you flashed: The boot method is actually using the boot/temp partition, which in the end, is not really the boot partition.
HTC, why are you doing this? Aren't you supposed to be trying to deter users from chasing exploits and trying to gain S-OFF? It sure doesn't seem like it. From this perspective, it seems you will be are pissing off and running away potential customers instead. The image you see above is the warning you receive in HBOOT after unlocking the device via HTC Dev. Note that it doesnt say "unlocked" but a very menacing "Tampered," a word that carries a different set of connotations altogether.
All your system are belong to HTC: ROM Manager uses a script to replace your recovery while in Android. The slight issue is, it requires root. Root is the center of the development universe when it comes to ROMs, kernels, mods and the likes of the bunch. HANDS DOWN, most of the alterations you make to your phone while booted in Android utilize root and the system partition. This is not only a P.I.T.A., it can be a deal-breaker. I will get to that point in a bit. First, let's take a look: How do I tinker with something if the manufacturer tells me I can but in reality I can't? Conundrums. It's amazing: You cannot remove the bloat from your phone, you cannot replace the recovery and you sure cannot replace the boot image while booted in Android/Sense.
Radio killed the kernel dev star: Yes, radio. Those cool P*IMG.zip files you flash in HBOOT, that's out the window... Unless you get an RUU (ROM Update Utility) and go back to the stock firmware. With older HTC devices with S-OFF, you could slap a P*IMG.Zip (essentially a firmware/radio update in HTC's update.zip format) on the SD card and boot into HBOOT. It would check and flash it for you. That whole proces is gone; this entire process of being able to do this on the mobile side is now gone. You will now need a computer to flash the file.
To need or not to need... That is the question: Toast brings up another excellent point: If these measures have to be in place (maybe due to carrier request) why not provide the proper documentation to support the device? We're pretty sure when someone unlocks this device they understand they are giving up any firmware support from HTC.
Then why not give us documentation or utilities to flash fimware.zips from recovery like HTC does? When HTC was the proud Nexus device there was full support and documentation available on how to flash firmware on their devices. This made anyone choosing an HTC device blessed with knowing that their device was not only open and unlocked, but when flashing firmware that it was being flashed correctly to Google and HTC's standards. This code has now been moved out of recovery since right before the move to edify scripting and moved to vendor/htc/ (not arguing this choice as thats where it belongs from a maintaining point of view). But the problem is that vendor/htc is proprietary now. Which means Documentation and support for flashing firmware correctly is not available and left to developers of recoveries for the community to figure out. One would think if HTC was standing behind us that they would step up and give us a PROPER/OPEN/REAL unlock, or if they cant for the lame excuse of security concerns, then give us the documentation and utilities to flash the boot and firmware partitions properly. I mean really... what is there to lose there?
- ToastCFH
An excellent point, and most of you will probably agree with his bomb of logic. At the end of the day, he is right; the unlock method is crap and we find it more of a hinderance and crippling intent rather than a compliance to the developer community who has made them the number one development device for so long. Recently Samsung has taken the torch and led its dedicated developers with fulfilled promises and standards.
HTC, why would you do this? That is far too easy. Clarification, reason, justification, etc., it isn't needed. It's about doing the right thing. HTC has kept the proverbial sprinklers on and now the unlock tool is watered down. My advice for the power user/modder/dev is that this tool is essentially useless. We have been the number one spot for developer support by giving free devices to developers and UI designers to make the device even more fun and unique. We will continue to support, drive, and advocate open development on a supposedly open platform and follow those who make it what it is today. With that being said, it makes us skeptical in giving devices to people that HTC seems to have set a navigation route to Failure Avenue, and know that the developer on hand won't feel shorted. HTC, let us own our devices. Some love the hardware, some love the software, but in the end we love Android.
Lastly, GPL. It is is not made to stretch the maximum time available and take your time. It is probably a good suggestion to set up an HTC gitweb or something of the nature to ensure that when the device is available, the developers that you "support" so much can have free reign at improving your device and moving forward at their own pace. That making the final connection to the developer house, letting the user and developer free you from providing software support. Release the source, fully alert and vigilant. We know it takes time to clean code, but the One X (international) community could really use some tasty kernel source code right about now.
One last note: HTC may not be able to further assist with the firmware/software/OS once unlocked, but you can still support your hardware by giving some documentation on how to proceed with an unlocked device. Giving someone a flashlight with no batteries in a dark house isn't an ideal method of answering our call.
Sincerely,
Your Customer.
If you read this, please take a moment and support your developers and modders that enhance your phone life everyday, by tweeting, sharing or posting on Facebook the following quote:
" @HTC we want our phones back! http://tinyw.in/LNSn "
Thanks to everyone who has read and contributed to this piece.
****
My contribution.
I made it about 60% through and I still don't see s-off released. ;p
acer73 said:
Before you start to think I am about to scream "GPL, GPL, GPL," stop for a second, take a deep breath, and sympathize with the thousands of power users and developers who have been left in the dark and/or ignored in regard to their device being partially unlocked with a seeming false advertisement. This is an opinionated piece in the regard of actually getting what we asked for and were promised to receive.
Not long ago, users and developers alike relied heavily on hackers and logic to achieve S-OFF to get the full experience of their desire for a great(er) experience on their Android phone. Some people buy an overlay device like HTC with Sense, Motorola with Blur, and so on, knowing what entails when they get it, but they anticipate running a stock experience or a heavily optimized build from one of the developers in this community. Recently we took a moment to talk with ToastCFH and Dees_Troy from TeamWin, who are responsible for HTC Dumlock. HTC Dumlock makes the unlocked device further accessible for a few more phones.
Last week we purchased some T-Mobile One S units for our developers and one of them was chosen to go for a test drive and to try out HTC Dev Bootloader Unlock. This is where we got to know each other and a bit more about HTC's online utility, which nonetheless has disappointed thousands more than just a bit. I am going to let everyone know now: do not plan on just stopping at rooting this and calling it a day, I tried to remove bloat with Root Explorer and came to a brick wall of denial. I found out you also cannot flash custom kernels in recovery mode.
"What is affected in retrospect when I unlock?" Let me answer that: It actually cripples your phone. It's probably less risky to take a chance and go for an S-OFF method that could potentially brick your device. As per numerous reports, and some insight from ToastCFH and Dees_Troy, there is a plethora of issues with this process and many gripes and speculation just coming from myself.
A cobb without a Kernel: Flashing a kernel is similar to trying out walking on coals. You have to do the following (coming from ToastCFH at XDA):
fastboot boot recovery alternaterecovery.img
Here's some thought: If you flash a crap/test kernel that doesn't boot, not only can you not pull the battery you have to relentlessly use your power button to get yourself out of the mess to get the phone to shut off (HTC One series). The reason you can do it through "booting" recovery as opposed of using the one you flashed: The boot method is actually using the boot/temp partition, which in the end, is not really the boot partition.
HTC, why are you doing this? Aren't you supposed to be trying to deter users from chasing exploits and trying to gain S-OFF? It sure doesn't seem like it. From this perspective, it seems you will be are pissing off and running away potential customers instead. The image you see above is the warning you receive in HBOOT after unlocking the device via HTC Dev. Note that it doesnt say "unlocked" but a very menacing "Tampered," a word that carries a different set of connotations altogether.
All your system are belong to HTC: ROM Manager uses a script to replace your recovery while in Android. The slight issue is, it requires root. Root is the center of the development universe when it comes to ROMs, kernels, mods and the likes of the bunch. HANDS DOWN, most of the alterations you make to your phone while booted in Android utilize root and the system partition. This is not only a P.I.T.A., it can be a deal-breaker. I will get to that point in a bit. First, let's take a look: How do I tinker with something if the manufacturer tells me I can but in reality I can't? Conundrums. It's amazing: You cannot remove the bloat from your phone, you cannot replace the recovery and you sure cannot replace the boot image while booted in Android/Sense.
Radio killed the kernel dev star: Yes, radio. Those cool P*IMG.zip files you flash in HBOOT, that's out the window... Unless you get an RUU (ROM Update Utility) and go back to the stock firmware. With older HTC devices with S-OFF, you could slap a P*IMG.Zip (essentially a firmware/radio update in HTC's update.zip format) on the SD card and boot into HBOOT. It would check and flash it for you. That whole proces is gone; this entire process of being able to do this on the mobile side is now gone. You will now need a computer to flash the file.
To need or not to need... That is the question: Toast brings up another excellent point: If these measures have to be in place (maybe due to carrier request) why not provide the proper documentation to support the device? We're pretty sure when someone unlocks this device they understand they are giving up any firmware support from HTC.
Then why not give us documentation or utilities to flash fimware.zips from recovery like HTC does? When HTC was the proud Nexus device there was full support and documentation available on how to flash firmware on their devices. This made anyone choosing an HTC device blessed with knowing that their device was not only open and unlocked, but when flashing firmware that it was being flashed correctly to Google and HTC's standards. This code has now been moved out of recovery since right before the move to edify scripting and moved to vendor/htc/ (not arguing this choice as thats where it belongs from a maintaining point of view). But the problem is that vendor/htc is proprietary now. Which means Documentation and support for flashing firmware correctly is not available and left to developers of recoveries for the community to figure out. One would think if HTC was standing behind us that they would step up and give us a PROPER/OPEN/REAL unlock, or if they cant for the lame excuse of security concerns, then give us the documentation and utilities to flash the boot and firmware partitions properly. I mean really... what is there to lose there?
- ToastCFH
An excellent point, and most of you will probably agree with his bomb of logic. At the end of the day, he is right; the unlock method is crap and we find it more of a hinderance and crippling intent rather than a compliance to the developer community who has made them the number one development device for so long. Recently Samsung has taken the torch and led its dedicated developers with fulfilled promises and standards.
HTC, why would you do this? That is far too easy. Clarification, reason, justification, etc., it isn't needed. It's about doing the right thing. HTC has kept the proverbial sprinklers on and now the unlock tool is watered down. My advice for the power user/modder/dev is that this tool is essentially useless. We have been the number one spot for developer support by giving free devices to developers and UI designers to make the device even more fun and unique. We will continue to support, drive, and advocate open development on a supposedly open platform and follow those who make it what it is today. With that being said, it makes us skeptical in giving devices to people that HTC seems to have set a navigation route to Failure Avenue, and know that the developer on hand won't feel shorted. HTC, let us own our devices. Some love the hardware, some love the software, but in the end we love Android.
Lastly, GPL. It is is not made to stretch the maximum time available and take your time. It is probably a good suggestion to set up an HTC gitweb or something of the nature to ensure that when the device is available, the developers that you "support" so much can have free reign at improving your device and moving forward at their own pace. That making the final connection to the developer house, letting the user and developer free you from providing software support. Release the source, fully alert and vigilant. We know it takes time to clean code, but the One X (international) community could really use some tasty kernel source code right about now.
One last note: HTC may not be able to further assist with the firmware/software/OS once unlocked, but you can still support your hardware by giving some documentation on how to proceed with an unlocked device. Giving someone a flashlight with no batteries in a dark house isn't an ideal method of answering our call.
Sincerely,
Your Customer.
If you read this, please take a moment and support your developers and modders that enhance your phone life everyday, by tweeting, sharing or posting on Facebook the following quote:
" @HTC we want our phones back! http://tinyw.in/LNSn "
Thanks to everyone who has read and contributed to this piece.
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My contribution.
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Done
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using Tapatalk
Done
I would share it but its got to many bad grammatical mistakes that makes its a hard read plus doesn't specifically request things like S-OFF. The sentiment surely is right though.
Could there be a way to have the windows 8.1 on our M7? I seen today where they released the windows version on the M8 at verizon today and I was just curious if it could be done?
Thanks
Aggies1288 said:
Could there be a way to have the windows 8.1 on our M7? I seen today where they released the windows version on the M8 at verizon today and I was just curious if it could be done?
Thanks
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anythings possible but it would take a lot of work. i dont even know the logistics of it and wouldnt be very helpful.
maybe a dev could chime in.
If I were in the position at Microsoft to institute a pirate dual-boot development campaign for Windows Phone, I would have a lot of fun doing it. Generate market buzz for Windows Phone by giving those with suitable devices the opportunity to install a "free operating system upgrade".
The challenges would be as much legal and political as technical - working with OEM and carrier partners who're nervous about unlocked bootloaders, etc. A marketing campaign that isn't about getting people to buy new hardware so much as giving new life to devices already out there... I would target recent Google Nexus devices (they're open, right?), then do an assessment of iPhone 5* and the legality of a push-button JailBreak app: "Tired of your stuffy iPhone? click here for some open Windows". yeah, redmond could have fun with this and make some noise where they need good marketing more than anything, Simply put, I would look closer at Windows Phone for my next upgrade if they did something like this. Do something nice for the enthusiasts and influencers, etc.
If you had the M8 it might be possible, but not on the M7
Know hawk has hinted about trying to port a Windows os to the m7. Again just talked about it a little. So till at least a dev tries and you know someone will try to do it. We will have to sit and wait till they do.
Until the Windows m8 is even unlocked (as the Chevron method will no longer work) and someone manages to make a dump from it, nothing will happen.
Maybe it will still be possible to pay a fee and register it as a Developer device, for publishing apps to the market.
Then when that does happen, getting it to boot on the Android m8 will be the first challenge at hand, as it will have to have the bootloader and firmware ported as well.
Getting all of that ported over to any other device will be a huge challenge and I wouldn't personally hold my breath on anyone getting this done, anytime soon, if at all.
Just being straight about it.
It's not the same as porting android from one device to another.
In my opinion, Cotulla would be the guy to do this for the m7, if he has any interest in doing so, but again that's just my opinion.
We will see what happens... As stated not possible without a dump though
Revamped 2.0 Lunar 4.4.3
well the HTC HD2 was able to get windows 6.5, windows 7, android, unbuntu, and Meego all on one phone so this is highly possible but as Hawknest said, we would need a dump first.
source
with some work, Grub bootloader can be loaded onto the M7. But thats another topic all together.
Problem is even it you port windows 8, Microsoft will pull it from forums..