Develop Bugs

[Q] REAL hacking.

Hello there to all the souls of the xda forums.
im new to wp7. never used one before like 3 days ago. i like it, great device my surround is. but im not here to tell you about how good it is. we all know its good.
im here to ask if theres any real hacking going on with this thing yet. im looking for at least some kind of command line.
from there i could use tools such as aircrack, nmap, metasploit, SET, etc.
ive had an iphone for about 3 years, booting iOS and Android. i am used to hacking from that, but at the same time i know there a bigger user base for those devices, so theres more devs for it. i just wanted to know if anyone has already started on such a project before i dedicate alot of my time to developing this for you all.
BTW i am not interested in pirating apps, cracking apps

With enough effort, command-line interface *might* be possible - the OS technically supports such things - but the underlying core is Windows CE. Even less so than NT, CE really isn't meant for a CLI; apps are written with the intent of being run on a graphical interface. Also, having no POSIX compatibility and only partial Win32 compatibility, a lot of apps that you're used to from the desktop (or from POSIX-based phone OSs like iOS and Android) aren't going to be available.
That said, if you want to get started in the WP7 hacking space, there's certainly plenty to do. One project that I have on the back burner until I get some more urgent stuff out of the way is a SSH client. There are a number of things that are required here. First of all, we have homebrew Socket support, but the official SDK lacks it so you'd need to use a native Homebrew DLL. Second, there's no official command line interface, so you'd need to write one. The second point is all sorts of fun, since what you're really writing is a terminal emulator.
Other interesting projects include getting a unified cross-platform approach to writing to the filesystem, or even reading from all of it (instead of the relatively small portions currently accessible) or figuring out how to make third-party apps run in the background.

thanks man. I think I'll work on getting a full file browser for the phone. That should happen , i think, before anything else. As far as a terminal emu, it sounds like its going to be more of a chalange for me. Again, I'm used to more Linux and UNIX systems than I am windows. I had to reinstall windows 7 onto a partition just so I could sync the phone with the Zune software Microsoft insisted I use.
So is anyone currently working on the file browser? Has there been any progress with it? If so, who should I contact so I can help?

sea_bass said:
thanks man. I think I'll work on getting a full file browser for the phone. That should happen , i think, before anything else. As far as a terminal emu, it sounds like its going to be more of a chalange for me. Again, I'm used to more Linux and UNIX systems than I am windows. I had to reinstall windows 7 onto a partition just so I could sync the phone with the Zune software Microsoft insisted I use.
So is anyone currently working on the file browser? Has there been any progress with it? If so, who should I contact so I can help?
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TouchXplorer. Do a bit of searching. A lot of homebrew has already been in the works.

thesecondsfade said:
TouchXplorer. Do a bit of searching. A lot of homebrew has already been in the works.
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Thanks. Just found that page

kin ui in silverlight

according to certain websites, the kin ui was made in silverlight. whether this is true or not i dont know. however i just wanted to say that i will be working on a new kin design interface and will be possibly making a website for it if it works okay. all support is appreciated.

Yes, everything points to the Kin menu being Silverlight-based, however, the IEmobile 6 browser on the Kin does not support Silverlight.

possible solution
hmm... maybe i could make the ui in silverlight, save it as a file, and redo the programming in some like visual c++ or visual c#. we need to find out how microsoft did it and retrace their steps our way.

The biggest complication is just that we don't have access to the Kin OS files. If we did, then it would be almost easy to modify what's already there.

I'll try anyway
im gonna see if i can break in...im good at that so this may not be that difficult.

Good luck with that. Seriously, lol.

........... Guys, guys. This stuff is a lot harder than it looks, take it from someone whos worked on this for a long time. ITS TOUGH! We have none of the neccesary codes and system access for a clean succesful break in. Just slow down a little ok.

Good luck to anybody who tries to crack this phone but I would like to mention the fact that if you can jailbreak a itouch does not mean that you can hack into this phone.

BitPim alternatives
Anybody know any good alternatives to BitPim? I need something like it that is centered around the file system. I may have just figured out how to hack this phone, but I need something better than BitPim for it to work.

X-15D9W8491 said:
Anybody know any good alternatives to BitPim? I need something like it that is centered around the file system. I may have just figured out how to hack this phone, but I need something better than BitPim for it to work.
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I would suggest that you make a thread about your question so people can see your question
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The Issue
X-15D9W8491 said:
Anybody know any good alternatives to BitPim? I need something like it that is centered around the file system. I may have just figured out how to hack this phone, but I need something better than BitPim for it to work.
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I believe this is at the core of the issue. There is nothing that can access the "file system" other than what media we store. If there was anything better it would already be hacked. I believe we are going in circles here. If we can get into the "file system" it's hacked.
This is what I know accesses the phone so far(none are hacks):
* Zune software
* Qualcomms QPST(scary)
* KinO(johnkussack's closest to a hack)
* BitPim
Are there anymore to add to the list?

gerrypw said:
I believe this is at the core of the issue. There is nothing that can access the "file system" other than what media we store. If there was anything better it would already be hacked. I believe we are going in circles here. If we can get into the "file system" it's hacked.
This is what I know accesses the phone so far(none are hacks):
* Zune software
* Qualcomms QPST(scary)
* KinO(johnkussack's closest to a hack)
* BitPim
Are there anymore to add to the list?
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Click to collapse
If you're on a Mac, MarkSpace has a Kin sync program. It's basically like Zune software excluding DRM content, but also has a pretty simple browser program to access the folders (not the root folder, where the contact XML file would be found).
There are other MTP explorers out there, that will actually show you the content of the phone. However, in my testing, none of them will allow you to read or write content.
Basically, if the phone is in MTP (default) mode, you only have access to the media, and not to the OS space on it. We'd need a driver to use one of the other USB modes.

ok
ill make a new thread...

the key to hacking the KIN

the key to hacking this phone, as ive noticed, isnt getting a new os. ive paid attention and i think i know what to do. we need a new internet browser. if you think about it, the browser is the problem because of its zero functionality. what we need to do is make an html parser in java that is invoked in javascript (dezgrz thx for finding out about the javascript apps). i think we should focus on getting this done.

Its a good idea but we have no way of uploading a new browser to the device.

X-15D9W8491 said:
the key to hacking this phone, as ive noticed, isnt getting a new os. ive paid attention and i think i know what to do. we need a new internet browser. if you think about it, the browser is the problem because of its zero functionality. what we need to do is make an html parser in java that is invoked in javascript (dezgrz thx for finding out about the javascript apps). i think we should focus on getting this done.
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Your post makes no sense.
First because that's not the key for hacking
Second cause java applications can't be invoked from javascript.

it does make sense @johnkussack
is does make sense. you can invoke a java app through js. quit criticizing me just because you dont know what youre talking about. and besides, what i meant to say (if this makes it easier to understand) is that we code a java app onto the phone that automatically connects to the browser and a download is set off in javascript that bypasses anything written into the browser by editing the permissions, etc by editing the browser and just making a new one and not being lazy. you of all people should know this makes sense because you programmed and app onto the kin! besides, the whole thing about hacking is to be optimistic or you never get it done and youre impeding development with stupid posts like your last. get a grip and post something important instead of that trash next time!

thats the point
WEM97 said:
Its a good idea but we have no way of uploading a new browser to the device.
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exactly my point. we could just create a new app like john did only we make it work like john obviously failed to do.

X-15D9W8491 said:
exactly my point. we could just create a new app like john did only we make it work like john obviously failed to do.
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Forgotten~~~~~~~~~~~~

X-15D9W8491 said:
nonsense stuff
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First of all, you'r messing it all
Second, to run a java application you would need to have a java virtual machine (which kin has not), or interpretation for java applets (which kin has not).
Third, i do know what i talk about, cause i code in Java & Javascript.
X-15D9W8491 said:
is that we code a java app onto the phone that automatically connects to the browser and a download is set off in javascript that bypasses anything written into the browser by editing the permissions, etc by editing the browser and just making a new one and not being lazy.
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Here one could stop reading. Also you can call Kitt to try to hack it, but it may not answer.
So, do your work before saying that other have failed where you have no success either.
And if we could do that magic stuff, last thing we should do is care about a new browser, when you could just install opera for win ce. So all the topic is going nowhere.

johnkussack said:
First of all, you'r messing it all
Second, to run a java application you would need to have a java virtual machine (which kin has not), or interpretation for java applets (which kin has not).
Third, i do know what i talk about, cause i code in Java & Javascript.
Here one could stop reading. Also you can call Kitt to try to hack it, but it may not answer.
So, do your work before saying that other have failed where you have no success either.
And if we could do that magic stuff, last thing we should do is care about a new browser, when you could just install opera for win ce. So all the topic is going nowhere.
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first, i havent had any success yet because those were plans. i havent tried this yet.
second, if putting on opera could help, why didnt you do it, "genius"?
if this thread is going nowhere then do me a favor and stop posting on it!

piss off
soninja8 said:
You sound like a smart-ass. You think its so simple that you decide to make fun of John. Without John we wouldnt have done anything by now so you should just shut it.
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that post was an a and b conversation between me and john so c your way out, dumbass. and you should shut it because you havent really helped at all, john has gotten me nowhere because i started from the beginning before i was part of this, and i need absolutely no input from you.

X-15D9W8491 said:
second, if putting on opera could help, why didnt you do it, "genius"?
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because we don't know how to do that yet.

I don't own this device, but a friend does. What happens if you download an exe or cab from the browser?

xboxfanj said:
I don't own this device, but a friend does. What happens if you download an exe or cab from the browser?
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It tells you the file type is not supported. Basically, you can't download something to the Kin that it isn't designed to handle.

X-15D9W8491 said:
that post was an a and b conversation between me and john so c your way out, dumbass. and you should shut it because you havent really helped at all, john has gotten me nowhere because i started from the beginning before i was part of this, and i need absolutely no input from you.
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~~~~~Forgotten~~~~~

I am not taking sides here but you guys both have points. X has a really good idea though so at least try. show proof it dosent work then i will agree with you. Its a good idea but we dont have the means of getting into the KIN.

there comes a time
Code:
the key to hacking this phone,[COLOR="Silver"][SIZE="1"] as ive noticed,[/SIZE][/COLOR] isnt getting a new os.
This is a solid point. We should not examine the possibilities of a new operating system until we are able to work with the current one.
Code:
[COLOR="Silver"][SIZE="1"] ive paid attention and i think i know what to do.[/SIZE][/COLOR] we need a new internet [B]browser.[/B] if you think about it, the browser is the problem because of its zero functionality.
Maybe so. Though the current OS has many shortcommings of, you could definitely argue that none are as confining as the browser
Code:
what we need to do is make an html parser in java
I am not sure what you mean by this. My initial impression is that coding an HTML parser from the ground up in Java is far out of the scope of this project. Perhaps you will explain it's purpose in a later part of your post.
Code:
that is invoked in javascript (dezgrz thx for finding out about the javascript apps).
I guess what you mean by this is to use the current browser's javascript interpreter to invoke the HTML parser. There are a few severe hurdles you'd have to overcome to do this.
First of all and from what I understand, the Kin's built-in browser is IE 6 for Mobile. Web developers and users alike agree that IE6, regrardless of it's environment is a very broken web browser. Despite this, it is still a full-featured web browser, at least by Microsoft's standards. So for the purpose of security, Microsoft has probably constructed the browser in such a way that code run in it will be heavily isolated from the rest of the OS. I know that exploits for IE6 are a dime a dozen but even most of those require more access to the device than we have. Our situation is compounded by the fact that, even as far as other mobile versions of IE6 go, the Kin's browser is badly crippled.
Second of all, assuming you could somehow invoke the Java code through JS, the Java code would still have to be interpreted and run using a Java interpreter which the phone lacks. Java is an interpreted language. What that means is that in the most basic sense, a Java application is comprised of a bunch of text files containing programmer code. When you 'run' a java application, what you are really doing is running a special program (called a Java INTERPRETER, what we've been talking about) that takes that programmer code and turns it into computer code that is capable of being executed. The interpreter is the part that the Kin lacks. Without it, the text files of programmer code that are the java application just look like ordinary text files to the Kin.
Code:
[COLOR="Silver"][SIZE="1"]i think we should focus on getting this done.[/SIZE][/COLOR]
...and unfortunately we've come to the end of the post. I have only talked about some of the preliminary issues with your project roadmap but IMHO they'd be pretty fatal to it's success.
Let me know if you'd like me to explain anything else to you. In the meanwhile, let's wait and see what more directed people like JK come up with.

Oh thank goodness, another post. Perhaps this one will explain some of the discontinuities that arose in the first post.
Code:
[COLOR="Silver"][SIZE="1"]is does make sense.[/SIZE][/COLOR] you can invoke a java app through js.
I am not aware of any way to do so, especially on as crippled a browser as the kin one. I've already kind of addressed this in the previous post albeit indirectly.
Code:
[COLOR="Silver"][SIZE="1"]quit criticizing me just because you dont know what youre talking about. and besides, what i meant to say (if this makes it easier to understand) is that[/SIZE][/COLOR]
I've decided to minify all the psychosocial turmoil content in his posts in order to make what I am referring to more clear.
Code:
we code a java app onto the phone that automatically connects to the browser
This portion confused me for a bit as in the first post you talked about a Java HTML parser howerver now it seems to have changed to something that simply interfaces the current browser. Maybe this would be more within the scope of the project but you'd still have to get through all the aforementioned hurdles. Even so I'm not really sure what purpose it would serve.
Code:
and a download is set off in javascript that
Oh ok, here you are explaining how the Java code gets to the browser. You use javascript injection to make the browser download the Java application.
Code:
bypasses anything written into the browser
Now, this would be a real trick. Accomplishing this would be equivalent to acquiring a U-Boat by fishing in the toilet.
Code:
by editing the permissions, etc by editing the browser
Another primary problem about your train of thought is that you seemingly assume that javascript is capable of doing debug-level computing tasks such as significantly modifying a compiled binary and perform priveleged filesystem operations. Stuff like this would be a pain in the neck to do even on a desktop computer with suited programming languages.
Code:
and just making a new one [COLOR="Silver"][SIZE="1"]and not being lazy. [/SIZE][/COLOR]
Javascript is a language designed for the web, not general purpose and certainly not for creating another web browser from scratch. JS, like Java is an interpreted language except the interpreter is included in the web browser. I am not sure coding a web browser within a web browser would produce very desireable results, esp. with such limited processing power as is available on Kin hardware.
Code:
[COLOR="Silver"][SIZE="1"]you of all people should know this makes sense because [/SIZE][/COLOR]you programmed and app onto the kin![COLOR="Silver"][SIZE="1"] besides, the whole thing about hacking is to be optimistic or you never get it done and youre impeding development with stupid posts like your last. get a grip and post something important instead of that trash next time![/SIZE][/COLOR]
hm. hm.
In conclusion, have a nice day.

In fact,iirc the Kin doesnt even have Javascript but JScript. Microsoft implementation, compatible with javascript itself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JScript
The funny commands which could expose part of the system doesnt work, of course.

That's just weird
johnkussack said:
In fact,iirc the Kin doesnt even have Javascript but JScript. Microsoft implementation, compatible with javascript itself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JScript
The funny commands which could expose part of the system doesnt work, of course.
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ok. first, let's forget our arguments and move on, those have nothing to do with what we are trying to accomplish. Second, how related is jscript to javascript because microsoft always has to make weird implementations of porgramming languages. This could possibly be a minor setback. Third, i'll admit that some things I posted didn't make sense, so i'll make them more understandable in the future.

Prize for person that gets the DVP Mango registry editing working

I am willing to give $50 (via paypal) to the person that gets native comm access working on a Mango DVP without the need to revert back to pre-mango. The library must contain:
Registry read and write
File browsing
Ability to interop unlock
** Update **
Now up to $100 USD. raiderfan247365 has matched my $50. Hey you also get bragging rights
** Update **
You also need to provide the source code to this.
Cheers!

MJCS said:
I am willing to give $50 (via paypal) to the person that gets native comm access working on a Mango DVP without the need to revert back to pre-mango. The library must contain:
Registry read and write
File browsing
Ability to interop unlock
You also need to provide the source code to this.
Cheers!
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I love your ambition but this is not the way phones get hacked on this site generally. People that tweak these phones do it for many different reasons and money is not generally one of them. I have have asked a few people if getting their hands on a DVP would help the effort but at this point it appears because of the way Dell constructed their drivers, it really might be impossible to accomplish these tasks you seek, but god knows I would love to have that stuff on our phone. Ill match your 50 but I dont think it will matter

Well dell has as far as I know no apps with native code in the marketplace which makes it quite difficult. Als it will be hard to extract the diagnosis app (or similar) and without these apps it wil be quite impossible to find ways to hack the dvp.
File and Registry operations are too different things, and far away now. A hacker will need these basics first and I understand you are willing to spend a lot of money on it, but its very time consuming and without a device or these native apps it will not be an easy task.
If you have some apps which use native code please post it here, some guys on this board can have a look. If not dont than it will be hard to accomplish.

Marvin_S said:
Well dell has as far as I know no apps with native code in the marketplace which makes it quite difficult. Als it will be hard to extract the diagnosis app (or similar) and without these apps it wil be quite impossible to find ways to hack the dvp.
File and Registry operations are too different things, and far away now. A hacker will need these basics first and I understand you are willing to spend a lot of money on it, but its very time consuming and without a device or these native apps it will not be an easy task.
If you have some apps which use native code please post it here, some guys on this board can have a look. If not dont than it will be hard to accomplish.
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Someone did grab the EM app awhile back but is is out of date. I am not sure how he grabbed it in the first place.

Ideas Thread

I decided it might be a good idea to have a thread to post ideas because the "What we have tried and where to go from here" thread is very over crowded with questions.
Post any ideas you have below and WHY it might work.
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* Make a web interface for accesing the Kin
Might work if the right guy makes libraries compatible with windows(i asked already).
If they do, or i'm able to do, i will keep going with it, so it's available for anyone with few steps for configuring (and extend). Btw, it's done on javascript & html so i guess people with only that knowledge could change the skin or behaviour if wanted.
* Make a web interface for the kin (so "webapp"?)
Don't see the point, but some say it's a great stuff. Might work if you care about making it. In the end is just take all with a css for the kin screen.
* Dump the movinand chip using (e)MMC protocol with right pin-outs
Might work as someone here already did for samsung smartphones (with movinand) using UART (so serial cable like). I tested and our SBL (LS+POW mode) doesn't answer OK or in a right way through USB to the MMC command protocol so... i guess that's not the way.

1. Make a web OS for the KIN's browser.
This would allow us to make a web based software that would be better than the KIN, but this wouldnt get us anywhere in hacking the KIN.
2. Create a web apps market.
Might be useful for anyone who wants an app store, this would be close. I like the idea of it. =)

I am gonna try this http://windowsphonehacker.com/mobil...terop_unlocked_only_lucky_need_apply-04-14-12
When someone reminds me how to sr phone as qualcomm.
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