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I have frequented this site over the past few weeks or so and am outright disturbed by the disrespect some "NEW" members are getting. I haven't actually encountered this personally, but as I have read numerous post, I see things that make me want to turn around and split! Senior members calling names and being VERY rude to existing and newer members. Is this really tolerated here? I really hope not because I like the site for the most part. I just refuse to be part of a forum that lets rudeness and disrespect go unattended.
I don't mean to be a bother, but the forum I moderate at would NEVER let this happen. We BAN members for disrespecting one another. I thought that's what I would encounter here as well.
I am not really looking for a response here, just wanted to let someone who cares know what I experienced over the past few weeks here as a new member. Thank you to whomever takes the time and interest to read this.
-Tommy
NOTE TO ALL: DO NOT POST REPLIES TO THIS THREAD! IT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED ALREADY. THANKS -Tommy
Thank you for the quick reply. I'm glad to see you guys are aware of this and working to cut down on the rudeness. I myself have told "newer" members to search instead of posting new threads that look like new mods as well. I do like the site though, and will continue to frequent it. I am SOLD on htc's, as I have recently chased a TD2 and love it. I will also be able to contribute new mods as soon as I can get used to the platform.
Thanks again,
-Tommy
tomtommy306 said:
Senior members calling names and being VERY rude to existing and newer members.
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Tommy, I'm someone who felt, 2 years ago, exactly what you describe here. It was always justified as senior members getting tired of volunteering their time to help people -- only to have some new members bypass reading any "sticky threads" or any admonitions to "please read before posting a new thread" (in which tips are provided for how to get answers to frequently asked questions) -- and seemingly never bothering to search at all.
Over the past 2 years I have observed 2 things, trend-wise: (1) Once I gained some decent baseline proficiency in understanding how the basics work re upgrading my phone with new & improved software, I then started to see, as though appearing for the first time (but they were always present) the TONS of repeated questions and downright disrespect some new members had for even following the most basic of protocols -- like -- "please post that at the forum dedicated to your phone model; you can find it here..." generating responses like
"I don't have time for that. I just need to know what HardSPL means and where I can find the latest ROM for my T-Mobile Wing"
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Personally I attribute a HUGE amount of this to the less-than-optimal information design of this site, which sends people back and forth from here to there to a wiki, then searching for acronyms and definitions, then to a sticky thread (MANY OF WHICH ARE NOW OUTDATED AND HAVE BEEN FOR OVER A YEAR), then back to a hacking section, being shouted at that "this isn't for asking questions, moron; this is for contributing software hacks", and eventually generating some dog-chasing-tail experiences for new members. One of the people working his damned hardest to help minimize this is nir36 (SHOUTOUT!) with his excellent GUIDES, and with his patience within the "Questions and Answers" section.
But -- (2) Here's what I have also seen: A huge disruption of culture here at XDA, prompted, I believe, by the mainstreaming of touchscreen phones with the introduction of Apple's iPhone. Two- to three- to four years ago, the people who frequented this site were predominantly hackers who banded together to solve many of the deficiencies of WindowsMobile software, and who shared their expertise knowing that other people's expertise would benefit them and solve annoying problems, or push a certain envelope. There was, as a result, a culture of CONTRIBUTION, vs one of "gimme gimme gimme, I don't have time, just gimme".
I've seen many an essay posted here by veteran members of XDA expressing a real frustration for some of the behaviors caused by the new influx of people seeing tricks and hacks now posted on YouTube, and then discovering XDA, and coming here to "find that and get it onto my device".
This has created a culture clash which is totally understandable from both sides of of the issue. There's more and more abuse of basic rules & process, where, as I said, more people seek to bypass all that rigamaroll and just post wherever it seems to fit, and seek a specific answer about how to get XXX on my device. There are MANY MANY senior members, even veteran senior members who've been here 4-5 years, who still use a soft touch in asking people to "read this FAQ please" or "please post that in THIS forum". But at the same time, when the response to gentle nudges like that is along the lines of "I don't have time for that, I'm in a hurry, and I just need to get this installed", then patience grows thin.
And so yes, of course, you'll see people snapping at one another. But it's born of frustration for the lack of respect of the culture of XDA -- where it had always been part of the quest to have new people work a little at finding answers, not to punish them, but rather to help them connect the dots and see the solutions available to them, and how they often build atop prior work.
Anyway these are my thoughts. I speak only as a member, not as any representative of the site or group of Mods.
I have been looking around quite a bit lately(here @ XDA), and have better feelings about it. There are a lot more helpful and kind people here, then there are rude ones. I guess I was running into a lot of newer members that were being disrespectful to the seniors. I understand the frustrations of members not being appreciative as I see it often where I mod. It does get frustrating when people don't say "please" and "thank you" , but some people must have forgotten what their families have taught them. MANNERS...
I will continue to be around the site.
You ALL do great work here, and I appreciate the time and effort involved.
I rarely ask for help, but I wanted to know it was welcome, just in case.
We are all here for the same thing, and I am very glad to have found XDA to fuel my need.
The site has a great REP, and that means a lot to me.
It was also the reason for concern in the first place.
Thanks again guys,
-Tommy
Note to MODS or ADMINS: PLEASE CLOSE or DELETE THIS THREAD. I am very happy with the responses I have been given, and am happy to be here. The topic will not be brought up again unless ABSOLUTELY necessary.
At least it's not Howard Forums
Seriously, if you see anything that looks bad, PM a moderator or report the post. We do try to respond.
V
vijay555 said:
At least it's not Howard Forums
Seriously, if you see anything that looks bad, PM a moderator or report the post. We do try to respond.
V
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You got that right.... Howard forums are very out there.
That's where I discovered modding cell phones for the first time.
If any complaints were ever to arise(doubtful), I would communicate via PM only.
Thanks vijay.
Sounds like somebody called you a noob and you got all flustered and decided to make a thread about it. Hope things get better for you.
Drybonz said:
Sounds like somebody called you a noob and you got all flustered and decided to make a thread about it. Hope things get better for you.
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Actually..... I hadn't even started to post in the forum when I wrote this.
It was from responses like YOURS here, except to other members that made me start this thread. And I had no intention of keeping it going. It was for admins and mods to read.
I'm no noob at any of this. I work as a computer technician for the city I live in. And I moderate at MMUS.us for quite a while now. Tkali & Insecure Spike can vouch for all of this. They mod there too... and have worked with me since I have been there.
AND LASTLY...... WHY DID YOU RESPOND TO A POST DOING EXACTLY WHAT I OPENLY STATED TO DISLIKING?? Disrespectful at the least.
tomtommy306 said:
Actually..... I hadn't even started to post in the forum when I wrote this.
It was from responses like YOURS here, except to other members that made me start this thread. And I had no intention of keeping it going. It was for admins and mods to read.
I'm no noob at any of this. I work as a computer technician for the city I live in. And I moderate at MMUS.us for quite a while now. Tkali & Insecure Spike can vouch for all of this. They mod there too... and have worked with me since I have been there.
AND LASTLY...... WHY DID YOU RESPOND TO A POST DOING EXACTLY WHAT I OPENLY STATED TO DISLIKING?? Disrespectful at the least.
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Well an assumption is an assumption. There is nothing you can do about it if a skeptic has little information to analyze.
To explain the frustrations of the "meanies" here are two situations I come up with:
Situation 1
The problem is that XDA is very likely to be the most visited forum as a technical support forum but stupid idiots are just too stupid to fix their problem when the answer is right there.
Example
For example, I have seen plenty on the Xperia forums in which some dude asks for panels when it is available as a sticky called "panels library" and the links worked at the moment, and yet the he requests for an existing panel.
Situation 2
Someone asks for a Windows Live Messenger download, and he/she says that he "looked everywhere, up and down" ... I tell him that it's easy to find and he isn't really looking ... he defense himself saying that he really did look ... we say o rly?
Example
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=517909
By the way, I declare this a skeleton war, since both of you are likely to argue and you both have skull faces
I would say, empathise, its not about senior members but about those people who stay a lot on this forum & loves this place too much that they get annoyed when they find someone littering around or violating the rules.
But being a senior member or more so a lover of XDA I would not allow myself to offend anyone's feelings or his/her dignity.
Enjoy & report mods in case you feel something is too offending & the suggestion is going out of context. Cheers
Saksham Katyal
I am a 28 year old male with not much to worry about.
Arguing on a Smart_phone/PPC forum is a little too juvenile for myself.
I was merely reading some threads, saw some rudeness.... read some more.... saw some more.
Then asked if the admins were aware.
I didn't expect it to cause such a stir. WOW!
Most people here have seemed rather decent since I posted this, and I expected nothing from XDA, but a place to learn new things.
I'm not really that concerned about it, just wanted to let the admins know my initial experience.
I was never directly disrespected.... The fact is, I haven't asked for help here at all.
I actually answered a few questions and really nothing more.
So, is there really a need to continue this discussion??
Not for me.... but you guys feel free to continue.
But if a skeleton war is in order...... I have some tattooed on me and am infatuated with them, so I WIN...hahaha
sakshamkatyal said:
I would say, empathise, its not about senior members but about those people who stay a lot on this forum & loves this place too much that they get annoyed when they find someone littering around or violating the rules.
But being a senior member or more so a lover of XDA I would not allow myself to offend anyone's feelings or his/her dignity.
Enjoy & report mods in case you feel something is too offending & the suggestion is going out of context. Cheers
Saksham Katyal
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Very mature words.... This is what I expect from a forum.
Is that your little girl there..... I read about the tragedy.
Broke my heart into a million pieces!!!
tomtommy306 said:
Very mature words.... This is what I expect from a forum.
Is that your little girl there..... I read about the tragedy.
Broke my heart into a million pieces!!!
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No its not mine but it was our's.
Even we are stunned with what happened to her in this little age.
get more about her here.
http://www.supportalessandra.com/
I wish you have a nice time over here. Dont worry xda is community inhabited more by mature people fortunately. Or else mods would be always there.
Regards
Saksham Katyal
tomtommy306 said:
I am a 28 year old male with not much to worry about.
Arguing on a Smart_phone/PPC forum is a little too juvenile for myself.
I was merely reading some threads, saw some rudeness.... read some more.... saw some more.
Then asked if the admins were aware.
I didn't expect it to cause such a stir. WOW!
Most people here have seemed rather decent since I posted this, and I expected nothing from XDA, but a place to learn new things.
I'm not really that concerned about it, just wanted to let the admins know my initial experience.
I was never directly disrespected.... The fact is, I haven't asked for help here at all.
I actually answered a few questions and really nothing more.
So, is there really a need to continue this discussion??
Not for me.... but you guys feel free to continue.
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Lol... I love this thread. You got upset because you saw some guys tell some noobs to search for stuff instead of starting a new thread, so you get all flustered, start a thread about it and then you get all defensive when somebody responds to your post.
OMG I can't believe it caused SUCH A STIR... oh wow.
28 year old male with not much to worry about... lol... this is classic stuff.
Drybonz said:
Lol... I love this thread. You got upset because you saw some guys tell some noobs to search for stuff instead of starting a new thread, so you get all flustered, start a thread about it and then you get all defensive when somebody responds to your post.
OMG I can't believe it caused SUCH A STIR... oh wow.
28 year old male with not much to worry about... lol... this is classic stuff.
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What are you from ebaumsworld? Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
There is always a chance that a question/thread is plausible and that he actually tried to search. And beside, sometimes I get lazy about searching and I just ask the question too. Well actually I ask the question first, and search immediately after because I want to gather all the result as soon as possible.
poetryrocksalot said:
Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
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Dunno... I'm 32 and I was quoting it.
Yeash, this is turning into that thread about religion.
Guys, please.
Noobs: sometimes, seniors get tired of answering the same old questions that can be easily found by a quick google.
Seniors: sometimes noobs are coming from a world of Nokias and iphones. You live in a world where people make ROMs for fun. Seriously.
The lot of you: you live in a world where you rub shoulders with Doctor Manhattan style giants, and don't even know it. Some of the guys on this site will astound you with their knowledge of the intricacies of the minutiae of the encryption systems used in the CE rom structure. They could blow you all away.
Experience is a sliding scale, and even George Lucas knows that "there's always a bigger fish".
Everyone should be polite, you were all noobs once.
V
PS be polite, serious, cus I'll start getting medieval soon.
poetryrocksalot said:
What are you from ebaumsworld? Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
There is always a chance that a question/thread is plausible and that he actually tried to search. And beside, sometimes I get lazy about searching and I just ask the question too. Well actually I ask the question first, and search immediately after because I want to gather all the result as soon as possible.
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Nope, age never has anything to do with it as is evident by Drybonz reply...and like he/she said, he/she is 32. Even at the age of 32 he/she still enjoys coming on to a forum and slamming someone for simply stating something the is bothersome to them, then gets a bigger kick when he/she sees that the reply got under their skin. Sad part is he/she will probably see my reply and some how get joy from it too.
Basically you have 1 of 2 choices on internet forums;
1. Let people bother you and lose sight of why you got on to a forum in the first place just to end up not coming back and missing out because of it.
2. Let it go and realize life is too short to care about people with more guts behind a screen/keyboard and what they have to say. You see a post that bothers you? Skip it and go to the next, simple as that.
wagonis said:
Nope, age never has anything to do with it as is evident by Drybonz reply...and like he/she said, he/she is 32. Even at the age of 32 he/she still enjoys coming on to a forum and slamming someone for simply stating something the is bothersome to them, then gets a bigger kick when he/she sees that the reply got under their skin. Sad part is he/she will probably see my reply and some how get joy from it too.
Basically you have 1 of 2 choices on internet forums;
1. Let people bother you and lose sight of why you got on to a forum in the first place just to end up not coming back and missing out because of it.
2. Let it go and realize life is too short to care about people with more guts behind a screen/keyboard and what they have to say. You see a post that bothers you? Skip it and go to the next, simple as that.
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kudos to you sir
I agree with Wagonis: just ignore any remarks by others that you dislike for any reason.
To Tomtommy: I agree with you that everyone ought to be polite, it is an excellent thing to strive for yourself. But if you let impolite remarks bother you, you just make things worse than they need be. If you ignore them, they will bother you far less. Indignation is a dangerous emotion, because it tends to swell with time. Just let people bicker; when they are really offended, they will make it known. Most people can take a bit of bullying.
[What I am going to say now borders on the insolent, so that I must apologize beforehand, but: I think those who are most insecure about themselves are the ones most easily offended. Those who are confident just think: "oh, an impolite remark" without experiencing much emotional impact. Sometimes, others are judged "offended" even when they themselves do not care.
Another option is that there are just differences in culture: in some groups, rude remarks are considered a form of innocent teasing.]
seriously, folks....
Did you not read any of the forum guidelines before you started posting? Did you not understand them? IF YOU AREN'T POSTING UP DEVELOPMENT MATERIAL (e.g a new ROM, a new kernel, a system hack, a new radio) STOP STARTING THREADS IN THERE.
the q and a forum is for questions.
and, if you are having an issue with a particular kernel, rom, radio, troll the thread concerning that particular item. chances are that someone else has had the problem, and that another person solved it. if it hasn't been solved, post in that thread, with specifics to your issue.
you do not need to start a thread. in fact, when you start threads that have to be moved, your leftovers have to be cleaned up behind you.
/rant
and no, i don't need some person (db, i'm looking at you) to come in here and say "blah blah blah you're just a wanna be mod", or some other non-helpful comment. the fact of the matter is that there is a place for everything. please keep it in its place. you're more likely to find your answer by searching first, and posting in the correct place. you will also find that you are not starting a load of silly flaming as people bicker and fight about stupid crap.
Wanna be mod.
Thanks.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
I agree with you. But why do you always have to be that guy who complains about eveyones posts. It gets kinda old also.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
If more developers came in here instead of developer wanna b's answering in such a way as to post boost, then we wouldn't have to...
I personally think the PRI question should be a sticky over there until resolved...but that would be too easy I guess?
nvm.............
r.mauldin said:
I agree with you. But why do you always have to be that guy who complains about eveyones posts. It gets kinda old also.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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why am i complaining? because why should i have to sift through 8 tons of crap because someone else can't read? the development forum is busy enough. if 15 threads weren't moved every day, you'd have to sift through page after page after page of complete nonsense just to find the actual things that belong in there.
sorry. i don't have the time to baby step someone through a complex process when they don't bother to read the simple things.
timothydonohue said:
why am i complaining? because why should i have to sift through 8 tons of crap because someone else can't read? the development forum is busy enough. if 15 threads weren't moved every day, you'd have to sift through page after page after page of complete nonsense just to find the actual things that belong in there.
sorry. i don't have the time to baby step someone through a complex process when they don't bother to read the simple things.
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I did say I agree with you. But you make yourself "that guy".
r.mauldin said:
I did say I agree with you. But you make yourself "that guy".
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But "that guy" isn't alone. Lately I've noticed 8+ of us that are "those guys" and growing.
A simple analogy would be comparing parking in the handicapped space at the mall, not worth the risk so you don't... on XDA there is no risk so people park their Q's in the handicapped space (dev) all day long. Neither scenario is right, nor should be tolerated.
timothydonohue said:
seriously, folks....
Did you not read any of the forum guidelines before you started posting?...yada yada yada and blah blah blah
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I could honestly be missing the point here, but by posting your complaint in the Q&A aren't you just griping to those of us who are already in the correct place for general EVO questions instead of in the dev forum where the offenders actually are?
cardiox said:
If more developers came in here instead of developer wanna b's answering in such a way as to post boost, then we wouldn't have to...
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I think a developer wouldn't want to answer the question of some fool who can't even post in the right forum.
Crotchety said:
I could honestly be missing the point here, but by posting your complaint in the Q&A aren't you just griping to those of us who are already in the correct place for general EVO questions instead of in the dev forum where the offenders actually are?
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yes, but what point would i be making by posting it in there? and, as mauldin pointed out, i answer enough of those threads.
however, unless i'm grumpy, i try to both answer their question AND point out that it should be posted in the appropriate place.
I'm with you OP, its irritating and actually disrespectful to the community
BTW, this should have been posted in dev.. lol
timothydonohue said:
yes, but what point would i be making by posting it in there? and, as mauldin pointed out, i answer enough of those threads.
however, unless i'm grumpy, i try to both answer their question AND point out that it should be posted in the appropriate place.
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I hear you and I just joined XDA not too long ago at all. A few things I learned right away:
- USE THE DAMN SEARCH BUTTON
- READ READ READ READ READ READ
- If you can't find an answer using the search button, open a new tab and Google it
- Still can't find an answer? You'd better search through the other threads before starting a new thread
- These threads wouldn't be so long if people would simply read the OP
- Kittehz r dyin cuz u dont no how 2 reed
Seriously though, I hate to see a great community become angered over lazy people. It ruins it for those of us who do heed the rules.
I am with the OP and to the persons aying if more devs came and answered there questions in QA they wouldnt ask in dev .... most of the people answering questions in DEv arent the DEVS. the DEVS are busy developing things and shouldnt be expected to waste there time answering the same 3 questions everyday all day.
Many people on the forum DO come to the Q&A and try to provide insight. Some are less helpful then others but in general you will get flamed less, you will get the answer and you wont cause issues with the "neatness" of the forums.
timothydonohue said:
yes, but what point would i be making by posting it in there? and, as mauldin pointed out, i answer enough of those threads.
however, unless i'm grumpy, i try to both answer their question AND point out that it should be posted in the appropriate place.
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Fair enough. As a seasoned XDA vet of a whopping 3 posts (including this one), I would defer to you on this issue, but I just think it looks like you're complaining to the wrong people. We're already in the Q&A which means we're already doing what you devs have been trying to get the offending posters (who are over in the dev forum) to do. They're not gonna see your OP in here because they're too busy bypassing the Q&A and heading over to Dev to annoy you guys with generic questions again.
Basically what has happened is the Evo and other somewhat likfe phones have blown up. Word spread like wildfire that XDA was the place to get any and all help with your phones. (Which don't get me wrong 99% of the people here are more then willing to help.) This brought a lot of new people on the scene and wanting information and help. Unfortunately some of those people don't want to play by the rules of the road.
Maybe it's just me but it seems like over the past couple months this is what's happened. I seem to remember another thread this was brought up and a suggestion was made about being a member for a certain period of time before being able to create a new thread. I'm not saying this needs to happen because I don't think that would solve anything actually.
Ok...my rant's over now too.
*Just my 2 cents*
Anyone that has been reading the Dev section or been in the IRC chat has probably seen plenty of flaming going on by some people that think they're Elite compared to everyone else. If you think another chatroom would be nice for users to get help when needed without fear of getting banned, flamed, yelled at, told to STFU, ridiculed or more, then let's set it up.
XDA is about a community of users and devs helping each other to tweak their phones as a hobby. Let's get the friendliness back into these forums and start helping each other out.
There's quite a few options for IRC chat, EFnet, Undernet, Mibbit, Freenode, etc. What's everyone's preference? I'm also voting myself NOT to be an Op, I have limited time available between working 50-60 hours a week, having time for my wife and kids, and doing Android app development on the side.
-Daryel
If I can ever help. PLEASE don't hesitate to ask.
Great post....
Rob
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Excellent idea.
I've also wondered if it might be helpful to have a separate E4GT Q&A forum (similar to what's set up for the international SGS2):
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1148
geekaren said:
Excellent idea.
I've also wondered if it might be helpful to have a separate E4GT Q&A forum (similar to what's set up for the international SGS2):
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1148
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Once we have 1,000 threads in General or 10,000 posts in General we'll be able to split that out - XDA rules.
Glad to hear a Q&A forum will be an option in future.
Thanks, jerdog!
not for nothing daryelv, but you keep making it appear as though you were just an innocent victim to an irc tirade. that simply is not the case. you did everything you could to badger and harass a rom dev about something that everyone in the thread clearly understood. before jumping on here to cry to whomever will listen, try taking a moment to look at the situation and figure out why the results were what they were. people here, that were not there at the time, have no idea what happened, only your word. there are two sides to every conflict. making it seem as though you were just randomly assaulted is irresponsible.
Perhaps if everyone searched for their issue, took some initiative, and did some research before posting they would get flamed a lot less.
henbone11 said:
not for nothing daryelv, but you keep making it appear as though you were just an innocent victim to an irc tirade. that simply is not the case. you did everything you could to badger and harass a rom dev about something that everyone in the thread clearly understood. before jumping on here to cry to whomever will listen, try taking a moment to look at the situation and figure out why the results were what they were. people here, that were not there at the time, have no idea what happened, only your word. there are two sides to every conflict. making it seem as though you were just randomly assaulted is irresponsible.
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Oh, I know I was banned for asking why an Op didn't update his thread to make things a little more clearer so there would be fewer questions on it. It's when 4 other people jumped into the conversation and started calling me an idiot, a f-ing indian, and more that things went way overboard.
It's not just me though, look through all the chat logs and you will see a repeated pattern of attacks by anyone coming into the chat room to ask about the LOS problem, or wants to ask about Rev B, or has a question about a ROM. It's usually 1 or 2 Ops jumping down the user's throat telling them to "STFU" and then kicking them out.
Anyone voicing their opinion usually gets kicked if it doesn't match the opinions of the Ops. I'm sorry, but the playground has been taken over by a bunch of bullies that sit waiting to tell someone to F-off. That's why we're looking at possibly making a new playground. If you don't like it, don't come. If you want to discuss this more, do it in PM.
-Daryel
henbone11 said:
not for nothing daryelv, but you keep making it appear as though you were just an innocent victim to an irc tirade. that simply is not the case. you did everything you could to badger and harass a rom dev about something that everyone in the thread clearly understood. before jumping on here to cry to whomever will listen, try taking a moment to look at the situation and figure out why the results were what they were. people here, that were not there at the time, have no idea what happened, only your word. there are two sides to every conflict. making it seem as though you were just randomly assaulted is irresponsible.
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While I wasn't privy to what you are referring to, have to agree that in general this is a very true statement. I'm not taking sides here at all but in my experience this is a common concern across the boards, regardless of devices.
XDA is a development community but we would be nothing without a user base. We need to lead by example and do our best to be patient with those that are new to the game. We were all there once.
With that said, as a newer user you have a responsibility to research, read, search and read some more before you start asking questions that have been answered over and over again. I'm a patient guy and I love helping people that need help but it honestly does get a bit rough when people don't take the time to at least try to learn before bombarding you with questions about your ROM when the answers are in the OP. If the user would have taken the time to read they would have found what they were looking for. You have to understand that you are one of many people asking the same questions over and over again. So if your met in an unpleasant way, sometimes thats why. Not that it makes it right but maybe just a bit of insight.
We need to all work together and make this community worth participating in.
At the end of the day, all this stuff is about a phone. Trust me, there are much bigger and more important things in life to worry about than a phone......
Well hit 1ooo threads by the end of the week
But there is probably 1oooo post by now
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
xak944 said:
Perhaps if everyone searched for their issue, took some initiative, and did some research before posting they would get flamed a lot less.
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You make a great point, but it doesn't matter. Someone could ask a question after spending days searching for an answer and still get flamed. These no way to know if someone has taken the time to search, so people that are really trying to learn and have put the time in themselves are getting lumped into the same group as those to lazy to use the search button.
Actually, I was present in irc for the exchange.
I had the same confusion as daryelv with regards to the question he was asking, and it's not because "i cant red gud." In fact, if daryelv hadn't asked the question, then I wouldn't have flashed the rom due to the confusion. So I, for one, benefited from the clarification.
But when he pointed out the source of the confusion, he did get flamed and it did turn racist. It's too bad, because it was all really over an outdated sentence in the rom thread disclaimer, and it was pretty unnecessary.
I get the hard work that devs put into their projects; I wouldn't want to be bothered with dumb questions either. But there was a genuine confusion and a lack of receptiveness in hearing about it.
To be honest, douchebaggery is rampant at most android forums. Take a gender at the CM7 port for the touchpad thread at rootzwiki.
Ill credit it to the expansion of android
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA App
fadetobolivia said:
Actually, I was present in irc for the exchange.
I had the same confusion as daryelv with regards to the question he was asking, and it's not because "i cant red gud." In fact, if daryelv hadn't asked the question, then I wouldn't have flashed the rom due to the confusion. So I, for one, benefited from the clarification.
But when he pointed out the source of the confusion, he did get flamed and it did turn racist. It's too bad, because it was all really over an outdated sentence in the rom thread disclaimer, and it was pretty unnecessary.
I get the hard work that devs put into their projects; I wouldn't want to be bothered with dumb questions either. But there was a genuine confusion and a lack of receptiveness in hearing about it.
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I had this very same discussion back in the Epic 4G forums earlier in the year. Something that everyone needs to understand is that the developers are no better than anyone else. Everyone in the community plays a role.
I would argue that the developers should be setting the example of how to conduct one's self and not fall victim to the god complex that has affected some of us. I always throw my friend k0nane under the bus at times like this not because of anything he has done wrong but because of the example he sets. He is easily one of the best developers I've met and yet he treats everyone with respect and affords them the dignity that they deserve.
There will always be a-holes out there but if you lower yourselves to there level than your no better than they are.
As developers, we need to remember that we are no better than anyone else. Everyone deserves to be treated with respect whether they are developing or simply asking an honest question.
Please remember that the Epic Touch 4G is only a phone. Life is way bigger than this and if the biggest thing you have to worry about is flashing a phone than count yourself lucky.
This is way to early in the cycle to have the forums going down the toilet. Take control back and lead by example. You should NOT be afraid to ask a question, especially if you tried to find the answer or simply need clarification.
While I'm far from the best developer I do always try to respond to everyone's questions and PM's. Hit my up on my blog and send me an email. I'll get back to you when I can. Please don't ever be afraid to ask me a question.
Let's keep this community moving forward.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
daryelv said:
Oh, I know I was banned for asking why an Op didn't update his thread to make things a little more clearer so there would be fewer questions on it. It's when 4 other people jumped into the conversation and started calling me an idiot, a f-ing indian, and more that things went way overboard.
It's not just me though, look through all the chat logs and you will see a repeated pattern of attacks by anyone coming into the chat room to ask about the LOS problem, or wants to ask about Rev B, or has a question about a ROM. It's usually 1 or 2 Ops jumping down the user's throat telling them to "STFU" and then kicking them out.
Anyone voicing their opinion usually gets kicked if it doesn't match the opinions of the Ops. I'm sorry, but the playground has been taken over by a bunch of bullies that sit waiting to tell someone to F-off. That's why we're looking at possibly making a new playground. If you don't like it, don't come. If you want to discuss this more, do it in PM.
-Daryel
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It's because all of these things have been answered, or there's a thread dedicated directly to it. It takes only a few seconds to search. I'm not a dev and I already find it irritating seeing 5 new threads about the same thing every day. If people would simply search on the forums, or even do a quick Google search, I'm 100% sure they'll find the answer to any questions about any of the topics you just brought up.
ptfdmedic said:
I had this very same discussion back in the Epic 4G forums earlier in the year. Something that everyone needs to understand is that the developers are no better than anyone else. Everyone in the community plays a role.
I would argue that the developers should be setting the example of how to conduct one's self and not fall victim to the god complex that has affected some of us. I always throw my friend k0nane under the bus at times like this not because of anything he has done wrong but because of the example he sets. He is easily one of the best developers I've met and yet he treats everyone with respect and affords them the dignity that they deserve.
There will always be a-holes out there but if you lower yourselves to there level than your no better than they are.
As developers, we need to remember that we are no better than anyone else. Everyone deserves to be treated with respect whether they are developing or simply asking an honest question.
Please remember that the Epic Touch 4G is only a phone. Life is way bigger than this and if the biggest thing you have to worry about is flashing a phone than count yourself lucky.
This is way to early in the cycle to have the forums going down the toilet. Take control back and lead by example. You should NOT be afraid to ask a question, especially if you tried to find the answer or simply need clarification.
While I'm far from the best developer I do always try to respond to everyone's questions and PM's. Hit my up on my blog and send me an email. I'll get back to you when I can. Please don't ever be afraid to ask me a question.
Let's keep this community moving forward.
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Theoretically, no devs aren't better than anyone else. Realistically, yes they are. They are the people who spend hundreds of hours (unpaid) doing something that directly benefits you. I'm sure they get hundreds of the same question every single day that they've answered already. If I were a dev, spending all my time doing something for other people, then get spammed with messages because someone is too lazy to spend a few seconds of their time (when I'm spending hours of my own) searching the forums, I'd get pissed too. Have you ever donated to a dev? Have you ever even said thank you for all of their hard work? Why are the only things devs get repetitive questions and complaints?
Anyone with questions about Odin, flashing, or need help finding an apk you accidentally deleted or just have a general question, PM me anytime. It wasn't very long ago that I had to search to see what root was. Ask anyone with an Epic..I will help out in any way I can so don't hesitate to ask. On a side note, I sure am glad ptfdmedic got an ET4G...pure class and he was the same way on the Epic threads as well. That's why everyone over there respects him so much.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
i dont know what exactly happened in the IRC, buuut like someone posted earlier... there are two sides of the story so im not agreeing with anybody, BUT i will point this out...
the person asking the question was right in the sense of asking a question because s/he was confused... on the other other hand, i understand ppl here repeat a lot of questions that have an open thread on that very same subject and make devs inpatient but turning this into a racist argument was uncalled for in my opinion... what does being indian, even if the person asking the question isnt one, have to do with being confused?
seems silly to me, cuz being confused DOES NOT have anything to do with color or race! just my two cents....
I don't understand why people have to make racial comments. Not just in Daryl's story but there are other instances I saw. Nobody is better than anyone else. We all come for the same reason. If u can't handle don't log on. It would make the thread less crowded if u answered that repetitive question instead of flaming them. If anyone has anyone questions that they want to ask they can pm me as well. I know JC will go out of his way as well as ptfdmedic. There are more as well.
The Evo3D Killer!!!
musclehead84 said:
I don't understand why people have to make racial comments. Not just in Daryl's story but there are other instances I saw. Nobody is better than anyone else. We all come for the same reason. If u can't handle don't log on. It would make the thread less crowded if u answered that repetitive question instead of flaming them. If anyone has anyone questions that they want to ask they can pm me as well. I know JC will go out of his way as well as ptfdmedic. There are more as well.
The Evo3D Killer!!!
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No one said there aren't people out there that are helpful, but continuing to ask the same questions that are asked in threads pretty much daily when there's a search function is pretty frustrating.
I do agree that bringing anything racial (or anything offensive) was incredibly immature and wrong. There's absolutely no reason to be rude, but people to need to be more aware of how to get answers other than spamming devs with the same questions.
My goodness lol I know a lot about hacking, my phone, roms ,general troubleshooting and a lot of other things and also a lot about forums and the vermin that live in them. I just don't say much because I never was a forum posting guy I'm a do it my self guy. Throwing "NOOB" around to some guy/girl that just wants to know how to operate or troubleshoot his/her galaxy that he paid a great deal for is b.s. I read countless a** hole replies that don't even answer the question, a lot of the answers are just failed attempts to sound like the "cool" sarcastic guy that sits in the back of a remedial math class. I've been coming to xda since I had a g2 (never registered) and slowly and slowly the community is turning from people that would kind of help you to d**ks with a false sense of entitlement that reply with a totally unreasonable response. Yeah it's common knowledge to a lot of people but some people really don't know what they are doing and don't want a brick and need the help of this lovely community. I'm not ranting its just my opinion on whats CLEARLY going on if you don't like it f*** off and go fly a kite.
I do not support smart guys who constantly ask eta questions though.
The problem I see is that, as you say, these people don't know what they're doing and want the information handed to them.
I've never seen a post get a BAD response when the person clearly outlined their problem and explained what they already knew and why their research wasn't getting them anywhere.
The people that DON'T make posts like that need to do some research - not just have the information thrown at them for their own good. Think about if you just gave someone information on how to build and operate a bomb without them knowing how it worked and how to do it safely. Sure, they're probably not going to lose fingers - but they could brick an expensive device and it's kinder to give some tough love and pointing in the direction of research, knowledge, and understanding before they make a mess that they can't get out of.
In the words of H.P. Lovecraft : "Do not call up that which you can not put down".
Yeah I know what your saying and I agree. Just that some people ask questions live what boxes should I check in Odin, whats a zip lol, should I wipe b4 or after, what original dev, how do I root. Those a simple questions and they are common knowledge to a lot (maybe not how do I root because many things can go wrong if you derp it up). These can get simple responses or links but ppl will post turd responses like noon read the op, we answers that in 2011 look it up, just don't root. Stuff like that I'm not saying go in to depth with a dude asking about something when he doesn't ever know the dos, don'ts and risk. I know I'm not the only one there's threads about it.
Sent from my SGH-T999 who wishes it was red and not American.
I agree 100%. The thing that irritates the F out of me is the few that run around here acting like they know it all... Then ***** and say search, then like each others post for being asshats to someone who asked a simple question that deserved a simple answer. I do occasionally call them out but it doesn't do any good.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
Lol yeah one guy asked does any one know where I can find the inverted YouTube I'm new.. A did responded Noob you'll find it in a different section. Thank me for the help.
Then a civilized guy posted a link to the apk (which is simple to find for the average user) and said to the guy above something like I think this is what you meant to do but the xda douche in you did not allow it.
Sent from my SGH-T999
Because they think they are cool when in reality they are more noobish than the person they are replying to. There's a simple if you don't have anything good to say dont say nothing at all...but I guess their mamas didn't teach them that common sense.
For some reason they rather reply being a total dipsh*t than simply IGNORE the post. Don't get me wrong some of the replies Realy are deserving like the ones when the person constantly whines about their problem and want to b*tch aT the dev...most of the time noobs...such as my self just want simply answered because we've search and couldn't find the answers or we found an answers but it pertains to another device.
They probably didn't get much love from high school so wants to be the cool jogs here
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium
From the moderator
To all in this thread.......
Most of the moderators would appreciate it if everyone were considerate, kind and patient........BUT......... that said,
Some do act with arrogance and inconsideration, ......report them we are here to assist.
Understand that the important responsibilities of a member is to Read enough that they can understand what to ask and how to ask it.
One of the overriding problems with XDA is we (the members) are not from one country, or one culture..so, many have to use Google translator or some other method to post in in English.
This creates an additional layer of misunderstanding, which in turn, makes things even more complicated.
Couple all of this with have a bunch of adolescent kids posting as well..... and now you have described XDA.......
So, with this explanation......it basically means to be patient, polite and considerate and when others begin to troll, or flame report them, this keeps these inconsiderates participation to a minimum
Unfortunately, this is thread is way to prone to escalating a flame-war....
Thank you for posting and "venting" off some of the common frustration we all feel from time to time....
...........THREAD CLOSED..........
~~~ oka1
There is also the thread below that you can link people to regarding their posting attitudes.
Posting Etiquette - Don't Anger a Developer
Been skulking here for a few days and now that I picked up my new S4 (!!!!), I'll be here alot (he said happily).
I'm noticing a lot of snottiness already.
It sure does ruin my experience seeing the trolls that cannot resist scolding people or just generally being snotty.
Let's set the tone early and all promise to be nice to each other.
An example that comes to mind are the people who can't resist chiding people for not doing a search first. Myself, I have had the worst luck searching but always do before posting.
Just my two cents.
One thing I hate is when people ask stupid questions that could have been answered with a simple search, sometimes just a google search would answer it. Although I'm being very nice since this is a new device and for some people this may be their first Samsung phone so I'm a little lenient right now. Anyways welcome, and I'm sure you'll love this phone.
Sent from Flip's Galaxy S4
elflip88 said:
One thing I hate is when people ask stupid questions that could have been answered with a simple search, sometimes just a google search would answer it. Although I'm being very nice since this is a new device and for some people this may be their first Samsung phone so I'm a little lenient right now. Anyways welcome, and I'm sure you'll love this phone.
Sent from Flip's Galaxy S4
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You make my point nicely, Thanks.
You don't like someones post, you can always just ignore it. Thanks for being so lenient.
I was always taught that the only stupid question is the one you don't ask. And as I said, speaking from experience, searching doesn't always find results here.
Newbies need our help....not to be scolded, chided, attacked, or otherwise harrassed. I've seen other forums here that are ruthless. And have heard people comment that they are afraid to ask a question or apologise ahead of time lest the trolls swoop in.
This is all discussed elsewhere in the forum rules....likely under Etiquette.
Again just trying to help set the tone. If I know the answer, I'll answer. If I don't I won't. Either way, I promise to be nice.
ickster said:
You make my point nicely, Thanks.
You don't like someones post, you can always just ignore it. Thanks for being so lenient.
I was always taught that the only stupid question is the one you don't ask. And as I said, speaking from experience, searching doesn't always find results here.
Newbies need our help....not to be scolded, chided, attacked, or otherwise harrassed. I've seen other forums here that are ruthless. And have heard people comment that they are afraid to ask a question or apologise ahead of time lest the trolls swoop in.
This is all discussed elsewhere in the forum rules....likely under Etiquette.
Again just trying to help set the tone. If I know the answer, I'll answer. If I don't I won't. Either way, I promise to be nice.
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And I speaking from experience is if you search you'll find the answer. I understand newbies need help sometimes, HELP not be held by the hand thru everything, cuz then they will never learn. We were all newbs at one point or another so if I could search and find answers without having to ask stupid questions ( and no the only stupid questions aren't the ones you don't ask) then so can others.
Sent from Flip's Galaxy S4
ickster said:
Been skulking here for a few days and now that I picked up my new S4 (!!!!), I'll be here alot (he said happily).
I'm noticing a lot of snottiness already.
It sure does ruin my experience seeing the trolls that cannot resist scolding people or just generally being snotty.
Let's set the tone early and all promise to be nice to each other.
An example that comes to mind are the people who can't resist chiding people for not doing a search first. Myself, I have had the worst luck searching but always do before posting.
Just my two cents.
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THANK YOU!!! I'd considered posting a thread just like this days ago. This is my first time in Tmobile, but I've been around XDA for a long time, and I've been appalled by some of the comments (consistently left by the same people). How hard is it to be nice or just abstain from commenting if you're just going to be a jerk. Thinking back many of the post that received nasty comments were or up by people with only 1-20 post on XDA. They're noobs, people, just like we once were.
Just yesterday I answered a question about having an AT&T GS4 unlocked to use on T mobile. Yes, the post should have been in the AT&T forum, and it should have been in the Q&A section at the very least. But I knew the answer and have the information with a link to the appropriate thread. Kindly.
On a happier note, how awesome is this phone?!
OK, I'll bite only because this is my thread.
What gives you or anyone else the right to scold people?
Read the rules. It is explicitly said that trolling is not cool. And attacking people because their post does not meet your criteria is trolling.
And it makes you look bad.
@eflip88, I am not directing this directly at you. No disrespect intended. I asked for input. I appreciate the discourse.
I was speaking generally, at the people who DO feel the need to be jerks. Not at you or your actions. Although your reply summed it up nicely.
ickster said:
OK, I'll bite only because this is my thread.
What gives you or anyone else the right to scold people?
Read the rules. It is explicitly said that trolling is not cool. And attacking people because their post does not meet your criteria is trolling.
And it makes you look bad.
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Dude I'm not scolding or attacking anybody, and don't talk about rules because the first rule is SEARCH.
Sent from Flip's Galaxy S4
Most of the time it takes less keystrokes to answer a question than to give someone a hard time. So it is usually more productive to be nice as well. ha ha
Peace.
Whats life without a little tough love?
ickster said:
Most of the time it takes less keystrokes to answer a question than to give someone a hard time. So it is usually more productive to be nice as well. ha ha
Peace.
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you must be new to the internet.
let me be the first to say;
WELCOME.
:highfive:
Searching does not always answer what one is looking for.............
+1 when I first came to xda people were being a little snotty but whatevs lol
Sent from my SGH-M919 using xda app-developers app
There's just certain people that have an obsessive need for conflict...It doesn't matter whether it's the internet or anything else they do..They'll always look for the worst way to handle something.....Your best bet is to just ignore them and move on...They want you to respond, That's the point..To fuel their misery...It sucks to see but it's never going to stop..especially when they have a computer screen to feel 9ft tall behind..
The worst is when people actually write out some long reply about searching instead of freaking linking the person to the relevant post, so annoying....
I have been on XDA long enough to know that people always want instant gratification to their needs. It is like they are entitled to it. Instead of searching like the way forums are meant to be. Day after day, they kept posting the same freaking question. There are community members who participate in these forums, and there are leechers who just come for the information and leave as quickly once they got what they wanted. These leechers usually dont even search the forums for answers, they just ask questions that have been answered like more than 20x (literally). We can be nice up to a point, but after that, you gotta take out the broom to sweep them away. Sometime it is better not to have than to have.
Sent from my SGH-M919 using xda premium
Awe... do you want a wah burger with your french cries?
luckyduck69 said:
Awe... do you want a wah burger with your french cries?
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Lol, why would I be crying? The only people who would be crying are those so called leechers who wont be getting any help and get scolded in the forums.
Sent from my SGH-M919 using xda premium
ickster said:
OK, I'll bite only because this is my thread.
What gives you or anyone else the right to scold people?
Read the rules. It is explicitly said that trolling is not cool. And attacking people because their post does not meet your criteria is trolling.
And it makes you look bad.
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Click to collapse
Well attacking someone doesn't constitute as trolling but is certainly against the rules either way.
If I see that someone has asked a question which can easily be found via a search, I will give the user the answer and mention that it was easily found by SEARCHING and that they'll have more luck finding things if they actually search first. <-- As you can see, it gets the point across that they should search but does so in a friendly manner.
If, however, I see that the same person is constantly asking questions which require extremely little effort to find the answer, I'll change my response to something like "Here's a great idea BUT it's quite revolutionary and might be a bit shocking at first.
Try using the search feature this site has provided us with.
I told you it was shocking. It's fine though because once you've got used to the idea, you'll realise that I'm actually correct in what I'm saying and you will then begin to search for answers (otherwise you might find yet another really shocking post).
Normally I wouldn't respond like this but this isn't exactly the first time you've asked a question which would only take a few seconds of searching. Whenever you have a question, you don't even think of searching. You just come straight out and ask it, without taking into consideration how dumb it could possibly make you look.
Believe it or not, this is a DEVELOPMENT site. Not a childcare site. Not a help desk. A development site. Are questions allowed here? Certainly but no one is here to hold your hand and give you all the answers. We also expect some work from you aswell. Even if that's simply searching before you post and actually paying attention to what you read, that's good enough.
You start doing that and then I can start to help you if you have any real problems." <-- This is not so friendly but well deserved and there's nothing wrong with this response in the slightest. It's very rare I'll make a post like this but when I do it's really effective and the user ends up becoming a better member because of it.
I totally agree with your intentions though and hope a better attitude can ensue across the entirety of XDA so that it can become a friendlier place to be
saldebot said:
Searching does not always answer what one is looking for.............
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This may help!
Sent from my SGH-M919 using xda premium