Develop Bugs

Android on Kaiser: The difference between SD/NAND/EXT2?

In short:
Is there a thread somewhere stating the pro's and con's of running Android from different types of "media" (SD, NAND, EXT2)?
If there is, please provide a link, I can't seem to find anything that isn't an unanswered question or small comments.
If there isn't, let this be a starting point for those looking for the answer to this question.
Longer:
I've seen this question pop up once and again but it might be that the topic is totally exhausted and people have stopped commenting on it. I can't seem to find an answer though; What are the pro's and con's of using NAND, EXT2, FAT32 or any combination of it?
I see a couple of installation alternatives and some I have been able to conclude myself but others not.
* Running from SD-card using HaRET
This option is the slowest in terms of Android performance. It has the added value of easily getting back to Windows Mobile by rebooting the phone, gaining easy access to the SD card and manipulation options.
* Running the system AND data on NAND
This option has in my view the fastest Android experience. Access to files on the SD card is a bit more cumbersome (there is the SD card split widget APK available but I have yet to see it working) and access to files for manipulation I can't comment on (haven't gotten to that yet).
* Running the system from NAND and data on EXT2
The performance seems almost as fast as the system+data on NAND. I have no idea about the added value of running anything from an EXT2-partition in the SD card but I'm guessing it will be slower. I have no idea if file access for manipulation is easier or not compared to the other options.
* Running the system AND data from EXT2
I have not tried this yet and cannot comment on it. Something tells me it will be slower than NAND because of SD card overhead.
* Running the system from EXT2 and data on NAND
I have not tried this yet and cannot comment on it.
Now, I've missed out on several of the installation options but I'll edit this post as soon as I get to investigating it further.
Any comments/experience/knowledge in this is greatly appreciated, as it can make things clearer as to what options to choose.

Well these are very good question and wanted to start a thread on this matter as well. I also could not find a strait answer anywhere.
I also want to know if there is an advantage using ext2 over fat32.
So, people out there having knowledge about this matter please share it.

Ext2 and Fat32 are both types of filesystem used on various different types of media, including SD card, Hard drives etc.
EXT2 is (one) of the native linux filesystems, and is fully supported in kernel, and is usually faster and more stable in that OS
FAT32 is the 32bit version of the old MSdos filesystem, used up to Windows 98, and still supported by windows machines, but slower and less stable than the native NTFS filesystem used by XP and above.
Nand is actually the type of flash ROM used by our devices, and not a filesystem as such, and running Android in Nand refers to where the information is stored, rather than the filesystem used to store it.
It's equally valid to say that we run WM in Nand also.
I think that in the case of Android EXT2 should be faster and more stable than fat32 since it's designed for Linux, and works better in that OS.

Zenity ik would like to thank you very much as this answers mij questions.
And i think this would many others aswell.

Don't forget - if you format your MicroSD to just EXT2 then you will make it very awkward to transfer files to/from the card on a Microsoft Windows based system.
This may, or may not be a problem for you.
Ultimately, the current ideal situation (IMHO) is to run your OS from NAND, and to store your data (music / movies / documents) on a FAT32 format MicroSD - as this enables you to swap the MicroSD card without turning off the device, and provides best cross-platform usability of the MicroSD for the purposes of transferring data to/from it.

Thank you all!
Thank you all for commenting! I will add your comments to the Android-wiki I'm building as this question could come back repeatedly from newcomers (and old ones who forgot )!

boli99 said:
Don't forget - if you format your MicroSD to just EXT2 then you will make it very awkward to transfer files to/from the card on a Microsoft Windows based system.
This may, or may not be a problem for you.
Ultimately, the current ideal situation (IMHO) is to run your OS from NAND, and to store your data (music / movies / documents) on a FAT32 format MicroSD - as this enables you to swap the MicroSD card without turning off the device, and provides best cross-platform usability of the MicroSD for the purposes of transferring data to/from it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a program for allowing the mounting of EXT2 file systems on windows, however they are not signed. This is more problematic in Windows that are 64bit. The program is called 'ext2fsd' and you can get it from source forge. EXT2 is a better file system, and does not have the 4GB file size limit, and does not fragment (although on a SD card, this should not be an issue). EXT2 also has file permissions that Linux understands. Fat32 has no Access control file permissions.

I have just recently got polymod's eclair running with both system and data on ext2 partitions.
my question is...
I am just wondering what the boot order is...
and where(if possible) can it be changed?
system.img in the andboot folder VS system on partition.
I know it can be set in the installer. but lets say I had installed system on ext2 partition. and then later placed a system.img in the andboot folder.
can I swap between the two?

OK...
I figured it out myself,
You can use the installer to select boot options (Not just options to install)
so I have a system and data on partitons. (currently using)
and I also have a second build installed to .img files in the andboot folder. (for failsafe backup)
if I want to swap from one into the other
I enter installer and change the settings for the system and data to
their respective locations and then just QUIT.
I also still have a donut build in the android folder. as well as still running winmo.
quad boot system on my phone...LOL

Now thats a neat use of the installer, I think this find deserves it's own thread in fact, I'm certain others will find it useful

Tanks !

binlabin said:
* Running the system from NAND and data on EXT2
The performance seems almost as fast as the system+data on NAND. I have no idea about the added value of running anything from an EXT2-partition in the SD card but I'm guessing it will be slower. I have no idea if file access for manipulation is easier or not compared to the other options.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've done some tries with this doing the partitioning from within android and then formatting the FAT32 partition from Windows 7 but the FAT32 partition doesn't work very well afterward. Really slow and sometimes crashes the explorer. Propably something to do with my SD-card. May try doing the partitioning and formatting from Linux to see if it works better.
Seems to me the main advantage of this option is to increase the size of available data storage which i suspect can become a limitation sooner or later in a pure NAND install.
EDIT: Now I've done it and gone NAND-System + EXT2-Data... Partitioned the SD-card from Ubuntu with gparted. Resized the FAT32 partition and created 3 primary EXT2 partitions. only the second (partition 3) should be used though with the setup I am using. It's charging right now so I haven't tried it out much yet but I will later on. However I noticed that I now have 171Mb free phone storage instead of 30-something that I had before (same apps installed).
EDIT2: Ran gparted again and shrinked the unused partition (partition 2) and expanded the data partition (partition 3) so I now have 369Mb free "Internal phone storage". Haven't noticed any speed differences between this and when I had data on NAND.

nand
By then one question:
If im install android in the NAND is more fast ready? But this process erase WM6?
Because now android work good in my HTC TYNT II but the camera and bluetooth not work and have one or two performance problems and for this dont like delete WM6 of my phone, and for this im use Android from my SD.
But look the NAND option because have a problems with the time live of my battery only lasts 5hours with android and SD.
Thanks for your help and cooperation

excellent thread which answers some questions that I had. Thanks to everyone who contributed. The only question remaining though and I have posted this elsewhere without getting an answer:
I partitioned a 2 gb sdcard with ~1.6gb Fat32 and the rest as a single Ext2. I selected system on nand and data on ext2 in the installer. After installation, it does show alot more memory for data as compared to data on nand, BUT I also have a data.img in andboot which is in the Fat32 partition, with a size around 250mb. The question is, is the data in that file or on ext2? If I backup data from installer, it creates a databackup.img in andboot with the same size as data.img. Seems to me the ext2 partition is just taking up space and not being used. Can anyone more knowledgeable shed some light on this? Thanks.

Not quite sure what is going on there, seems very counter-intuitive, I would have assumed that system on Nand, data on EXT2 would have installed the data partition to EXT2 on SD. This would seem not to be the case in this instance.
There are a few experiments you could try, if you are brave enough, since you may cause problems by trying any of these suggestions, which could mean a reinstall, I leave it to your judgement how to proceed
Ok firstly I assume you have a card reader, since you managed to partition and format the SD card in the first place. Remove the SD card, insert in card reader, delete the andboot folder, or the contents of the folder, ( may be wise to have a spare SD with either a winmo or android install handy at this point, just in case things go horribly wrong ).
Now with the cleaned SD, put it in the phone and boot, it should boot fine, IF the data is truly on the EXT2 partition.
That at least will answer one question, namely, where the heck is my data?
If this works fine, then I'd just put it down to some inner weirdness of android on non-native devices, if it fails then I'm wondering if your EXT2 partition may have problems, forcing the phone to dump it on the first available good partition, namely the FAT32 one.
Oh and if it does fail, you will have to reinstall, since your data will be toast.
Finally, good luck, I await with interest

As I recall, the install has the FAT32/Ext2 options incorrectly swapped. It has been this way for a while.

zenity said:
Not quite sure what is going on there, seems very counter-intuitive, I would have assumed that system on Nand, data on EXT2 would have installed the data partition to EXT2 on SD. This would seem not to be the case in this instance.
There are a few experiments you could try, if you are brave enough, since you may cause problems by trying any of these suggestions, which could mean a reinstall, I leave it to your judgement how to proceed
Ok firstly I assume you have a card reader, since you managed to partition and format the SD card in the first place. Remove the SD card, insert in card reader, delete the andboot folder, or the contents of the folder, ( may be wise to have a spare SD with either a winmo or android install handy at this point, just in case things go horribly wrong ).
Now with the cleaned SD, put it in the phone and boot, it should boot fine, IF the data is truly on the EXT2 partition.
That at least will answer one question, namely, where the heck is my data?
If this works fine, then I'd just put it down to some inner weirdness of android on non-native devices, if it fails then I'm wondering if your EXT2 partition may have problems, forcing the phone to dump it on the first available good partition, namely the FAT32 one.
Oh and if it does fail, you will have to reinstall, since your data will be toast.
Finally, good luck, I await with interest
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great idea, I'll try this on the weekend. I wont delete data though, I'll just rename andboot and backup data for good measure, because I want to be able to go back to the data by renaming it back if it doesn't work. I was also thinking if there is any way to get to the ext2 partition and read it... I'm on xp so I cant do it on my pc, and on the phone, I've looked around in astro n other file managers but cant see anything. But if the case is as golfnz34me points out, then I should just backup the data, and change the option to Fat32 in install and restore data. That should do the trick.
golfnz34me said:
As I recall, the install has the FAT32/Ext2 options incorrectly swapped. It has been this way for a while.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, will check this out. If its true, then great, more speed for my /data! I wonder how I missed this, been going through these forums regularly...

Ok I checked it out, and golfnz34me is correct it seems.
But now I found a new problem. I backed up data, and in the installer, set the data to SDCard, and tried to restore data. It gives various errors like
Code:
cannot determine filesystem size
failed
failed to format
...some other lines...
losetup: /dev/block/loop2: no such device or address
I created the partition with Paragon partition manager, and after getting this error I rechecked in PPM. I reformated the partition, but still get the error. In PPM the partition drive letter isnt assigned. Or, the partition isnt the active partition. Can one of those be the problem? The volume name is Ext2. Im not very experienced in partitioning etc, apart from normal ntfs partition for new hds in windows, so I didnt play with any options. I dont have a linux system either. Any got any ideas? Any help would be appreciated alot!

Not sure about using partition managers other than gparted, afaik most people are using the Gparted live cd if they don't have a linux install handy.
The errors all point to some sort of problem with the EXT2 partition, or it's formatting.
Also EXT2 partitions do not have drive letters, nor do they have to be active partitions.

Apps and data on SD card.
I cant seem to figure out how to make all the apps and other stuff install to the SD card. Do I have to partition the card into two partitions? or is there a way to install the system to Nand and make all the apps and data go to the SD card? Ive tried setting it to System on nand and data on SD partition but it says no partitions to install to or something.

Is any chance to install apps on SD card?

hi, Is any chance to install apps on SD card? Thx

Michga said:
hi, Is any chance to install apps on SD card? Thx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I installed system to nand and data to sdcard runs like crap but it works

Technically... yes. Its linux running under the hood, so maybe we can try to put the data of the apps inside the SD and just links in the NAND side.
But I believe the speed of those particular apps is going to suck.

MrRulas! said:
Technically... yes. Its linux running under the hood, so maybe we can try to put the data of the apps inside the SD and just links in the NAND side.
But I believe the speed of those particular apps is going to suck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did exactly this now maybe if I had all the knowledge to make such changes it may not have ran so bad, it actually didn't run as poorly as expected. I really had no idea what I was doing but I started here by changing this value in sysinit.rc " export ANDROID_DATA /sdcard/data "
Im sure there are more that would need changed to get optimal performance, I copied the files over through adb shell and rebooted. All I can say is it works and to test my theory I removed sdcard and the system came to a screeching halt.
I dont know if anyone has been following mssmisons posts about the new sense build but unless smeone can get that build shrunk down I almost foresee a split install such as this to run the newer builds on our limited internal memory

MrRulas! said:
Technically... yes. Its linux running under the hood, so maybe we can try to put the data of the apps inside the SD and just links in the NAND side.
But I believe the speed of those particular apps is going to suck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and can be better performance with high speed 16GB mem?

I could enable apps-to-SD (which is basically symlinks) like the G1 users do, but it can be buggy (and slow). You'll need an ext2 partition on your SD for that. The very simple way (right now) is to just choose in the installer: NAND for system and SD Partition for data, but as described that will slow down the system. There's an apps2sd script inside /system/etc/init.d of polymod if anyone wants to see how G1 users do it.

polyrhythmic said:
I could enable apps-to-SD (which is basically symlinks) like the G1 users do, but it can be buggy (and slow). You'll need an ext2 partition on your SD for that. The very simple way (right now) is to just choose in the installer: NAND for system and SD Partition for data, but as described that will slow down the system. There's an apps2sd script inside /system/etc/init.d of polymod if anyone wants to see how G1 users do it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How exactly do you use this I think it would be great for non essential apps to be stored on the sdard and save space for all required apps to run

Available RAM

So when I first got my HTC Desire and installing some applications I of course came across the annoying message telling me I am running low on space.
So I rooted and installed a ROM with AppstoSD, and was happy again. Now I am back to the same issue, keeps telling me I am low. Which is true because after rooting I installed a bunch more applications lol
So my phone says I have 147MB total to use for Applications and such. Currently around 13 to 16MB. Quite annoying.
So with future Android updates or even hacks will applications ever install and run and store everything from an SD card? Because this expensive device I am locked into for 3 years is going to get pretty crappy and annoying if I have to uninstall applications I want to install other ones...
Comments?

Well as a2sd just works by creating a symlink to the ext partition on the sd-card, yous should be able to simply create one for /data/data as well. Because those data foleders are still stored on the data prtition, and those are the ones taking up space.
I Found a guide at some point, but i can't seem to find it now, but try searching around.

I have been looking around, and no luck. Why I started this thead
Anyone else, ideas, know a way?

to make app2sd work you need an ext partition. to do that download rom manager for free from market and create one. i suggest if use to install lots of apps select 512mb partition, set swap to 0mb. but keep in mind before creating the partition you should backup all data from sdcard because it will be formatted to create the partition.
and by the way please edit title cause this is Nand memory that you are refering to.
regards
Marios

mariosraptor said:
to make app2sd work you need an ext partition. to do that download rom manager for free from market and create one. i suggest if use to install lots of apps select 512mb partition, set swap to 0mb. but keep in mind before creating the partition you should backup all data from sdcard because it will be formatted to create the partition.
and by the way please edit title cause this is Nand memory that you are refering to.
regards
Marios
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cant edit title.
And I clearly said I have AppstoSD working, it's just not enough.
My main question was simply, will in the future, apps2sd or whatever it will be called allow for applications to be installed, stored and run from the SD. If not my nice new phone is going to get quite annoying and useless.

if you say that you started with 147mb and now have 13-16mb and have app2sd, it means that you have a rom that supports app2sd but not aproperly created ext partition. that is why you are running low.
for example if you have a working EXT and still having left only 13mb on phone it means that you have installed aboout 300to500 apps. that is because although apps get installed on EXT but always leave a trace in phone memory(something like a shortcut).

mariosraptor said:
that is because although apps get installed on EXT but always leave a trace in phone memory(something like a shortcut).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not always just a trace!
/data/data is left on internal memory (for stability reasons) and some apps, for example Google Earth, take up an awful lot of space there.
Regards,
Dave

mariosraptor said:
if you say that you started with 147mb and now have 13-16mb and have app2sd, it means that you have a rom that supports app2sd but not aproperly created ext partition. that is why you are running low.
for example if you have a working EXT and still having left only 13mb on phone it means that you have installed aboout 300to500 apps. that is because although apps get installed on EXT but always leave a trace in phone memory(something like a shortcut).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you are saying I formatted wrong when I did created the ext partition originally?

That's an exaggeration although on AOSP ROMs, same everything except HTC additions (mainly Sense), I have 35-40MB free while on HTC 2.2 ROMs I'm always juggling between 15-20MB free. I have A2SD fully working, 112 apps on. I don't see it as a big issue for me because I only need approx 85 of them from day to day, but to have the rest on and not have to worry and keep deleting things to keep the phone working would be very handy. Nearly all the quality apps with great features require much memory (don't even ask me about Rockplayers update). Most of them are still using a good chunk of the internal memory even after being "installed on SD card" for some portion but the killers are apps like Adobe Flash, Maps, HTC_IME, Earth, SMS/MMS, cache, emails, bookmarks, widgets and so forth. In fact, I only keep 2-3 emails and a few bookmarks stored in the default applications for this reason.
-----------------------------------
- Sent via my HTC Desire -

So can someone show/link me to the correct settings with creating that ext partition, just incase I did do it wrong. Thanks
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

i have an aosp rom. about 120 apps and still have 95mb of free space in phone memory. i have an ext partition of 512 mb.
That's an exaggeration although on AOSP ROMs, same everything except HTC additions (mainly Sense), I have 35-40MB free while on HTC 2.2 ROMs I'm always juggling between 15-20MB free. I have A2SD fully working, 112 apps on. I don't see it as a big issue for me because I only need approx 85 of them from day to day, but to have the rest on and not have to worry and keep deleting things to keep the phone working would be very handy.

So no ideas, anyway to edit an ext partition or something. Arg
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

[Q] Rooting successful - Now what?

So... After much hesitation (purely because of worry), I finally rooted my Desire. And yes, it went without a hitch.
I do have that app which says "Superuser Permissions".
Running ClockWork mod recovery/rom 2.5.0.7 (I guess).
I have downloaded the major recommended apps for rooted devices, viz. - Root Explorer, Titanium Backup and ROM Manager.
I'd like to know what else can be done now...
My phone's memory is down to 20-ish odd Megs. Thanks to updating Adobe, Facebook, GMail, Maps, QuickOffice and installing Swype.
Is there a way to increase the memory now?
I am running FroYo 2.10.405.2 and Radio 5.09.05.30_2.
Thanks in advance...

You could try a custom rom with apps2sd for starters
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

Ah ok... Will read-up before going for one.
One more thing, please.
Unrevoked worked without a hitch. And there is no visible difference, either. No change at the HBOOT screen.
Which prompts me to ask: shouldn't it change from S-ON to S-OFF? Or am I getting confused with something else?
PS: apps2sd? I have a software called App 2 SD. Any difference between the two?

Unrevoked dosent unlock your bootloader, if you want to do that just search development for "alpharev" ..... apps2sd+ and the native froyo move to sd are diffrent, the biggest advantage being apps2sd+ also moves the dalvik cache (mine is over 50mb)
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

Root is not the same as s-off. There is a fix, which flashes a pathced hboot though, which till give you s-off. It is easy, and i prefer to have it, as et makes recovering the phone so much easier, if something happens
For a2sd there is 2 major types. The one implemented in froyo by default, which you already make use of. The app you have allows you to mave pretty much any app to the sd-card. But you will still have the dalvik-cache in the phone memory. The other type of a2sd is what i have experienced to give me plenty of space is usually implemented in most custom roms, and is activated by making an ext-partition on your sd-card(can be done through rom manager).
I prefer the last one by far, and if i should recommend a rom for you, it should be AuraxtSense, which have some great UI changes, which makes the phone look great in my opinion. If you want std. htc sense rom and look, leedroid is a decent rom, and if you want to play around with a rom without sense like the nexus one, you should try cyanogen mod or opendesire

Thanks, friends. Slowly finding my way about these tricks.
Dunno if it is a coincidence - I've never experienced "crash" issues but earlier today, the HTC launcher crashed and I had to live w/o the home screens for a few minutes.
Any idea why this might have happened?

As regards A2SD+
I found this bit by Googling...
1) Download and install MiniTool Partition Wizard Home Edition.
2) Backup the contents of your SD card somewhere.
3) Connect the SD card to your PC. Make sure it shows up as a drive in My Computer.
4) Load up the Partition Wizard applicatiion.
5) Select your memory card in Partition Wizard (usually at the bottom, look for the drive letter to make sure you don't delete a hard disk). It should have a partition already, probably FAT32 formatted. You need to right click on every partition within your memory card and click Delete.
6) It won't delete right away, these tasks will be added to the panel on the left. Click Apply to make it happen. This will obviously delete everything!
7) You should now have a single chunk of unallocated memory which is the entire storage capacity of the card. Right click on this and choose 'Create'.
8) In the options set 'Create As' to 'Primary' and the file system to FAT32. Leave Cluster Size as default and ignore the drive letter.
9) Now drag the bar below from the right to set the unallocated space after this partitiion. The large FAT32 partition is where your music, videos, pictures and other files will be stored so this needs to be the largest. Make sure you have plenty of room for everything you need. The space after it is where apps will live. Around 512MB should be sufficient though if you're going to be downloading lots of games and other large programs then make it a bit bigger. Click Ok to finish.
10) Now right click and 'Create' on the remaining unallocated space, ignoring the warning message that pops up. Set to Primary again, but this time in File System select 'Ext3' (you can also use Ext2, Google it if you're interested in the differences and want to read lots of debate about which is better). Don't change the size of the partition. Click Ok.
11) Now click Apply and let it do its stuff. Once finished you should have one FAT32 partition and one Ext3. Note that the Ext3 will not be visible through Windows normally so you can't browse the files, but you can delete it and format the entire card back to FAT32 via Partition Wizard.
Important: since all your apps will be stored on the SD card instead of the phone, switching the phone on without the card inside will cause problems, you may not even be able to boot properly. And if you change cards you'll need to make sure you copy the contents of the Ext3 partition to the new card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess ext2/3 terms are Linux-related terms which I am not familiar with... Do I go ahead with this way of enabling A2SD+?
(I suppose folks who rooted without using Unrevoked have another way to enable A2SD+)
Thanks!

Ext2/3 is a linux partition type. Android can use this, because it is of course based of linux. The best thing you can do is backup your sd card and boot into the clockwordmod recovery. From there you can partition your sd card for a2sd+.
I have a 4gb sd card with a 512 mb ext3 partition for my apps.
Hope it helps!

Oh great... Thanks!
So... Does this method actually "fool" the device in to believing that the internal memory is 140ish + what we assign from the memory card?

kartnite said:
So... Does this method actually "fool" the device in to believing that the internal memory is 140ish + what we assign from the memory card?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, but you'll still see it displayed separately. Most of the app's will go to ext partition, only data will stay on internal space. I recommend Quick System Info app for checking space (and bunch of other stuff).

Thanks!

mortenmhp said:
Root is not the same as s-off. There is a fix, which flashes a pathced hboot though, which till give you s-off. It is easy, and i prefer to have it, as et makes recovering the phone so much easier, if something happens
For a2sd there is 2 major types. The one implemented in froyo by default, which you already make use of. The app you have allows you to mave pretty much any app to the sd-card. But you will still have the dalvik-cache in the phone memory. The other type of a2sd is what i have experienced to give me plenty of space is usually implemented in most custom roms, and is activated by making an ext-partition on your sd-card(can be done through rom manager).
I prefer the last one by far, and if i should recommend a rom for you, it should be AuraxtSense, which have some great UI changes, which makes the phone look great in my opinion. If you want std. htc sense rom and look, leedroid is a decent rom, and if you want to play around with a rom without sense like the nexus one, you should try cyanogen mod or opendesire
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a quick question related to all this. I just rooted my desire with unrevoked 3.21 and a recovery image has been installed and it is version 2.5.0.7 of clockworkmod, I guess the latest.
Then I read other posts where people suggest to use rom manager and one of the options is "install clockworkmod" ... but if I have already installed it why should I need it again? Do ROM manager and unrevoked install in different places may be different versions of clockworkmod? then which is the one that will be used booting in recovery? Does this mean that the recovery image installed by unrevoked could be deleted somehow..? There are a lot of controversial explanations in the forums and I really dont have any idea which one to believe. Any expert could explain in easy terms? Thanks

Still having questions about Android

Message edited by myself :
I have/had a lot of questions about using Android on my Kaiser, so I'm editing this message, integrating my questions and their answers..
1° How to install softwares on the microSD card? (Thanks to l1q1d !)
-> You need a microSD class 4 or more to do it.. Partition like this (for a 2Gb microSD) : 1600 Mb FAT32 + 32 Mb EXT2 + 300 Mb EXT2 with QParted or "Minitool Partition Wizard"
-> During Android's installation, you have to choose System on NAND, and Data on "SD Card Partition" !
2° The camera doesnt works.. Do I need to change the kernel (.nbh file I guess?) or is it a ROM problem? (Thanks to Krazy-Killa!)
-> It is a RADIO problem
-> All radios 1.65.xx make the camera unusable, but phone is stable. All 1.71.xx radios allow camera function but break phone stability.
3° How could I be able to transfer files from my PC to my Android phone? (thanks to myself)
-> Using DoubleTwist (on PC) and DoubleTwist AirSync on your phone! It is like an iTunes, but for Android.
4° How can I access the Android Market and its content from my computer? (thanks to myself)
-> Using DoubleTwist on your computer!
5° How can I watch Youtube videos on my phone? Or, how to watch embedded youtube videos in my browser?
-> Don't know..
6° How can I watch divx videos on my phone?
-> Don't know..
6°
Thanks to everyone!

1° I can't install softwares on the microSD card.. Tried to make a EXT2 partition (1500 Mb FAT32 + 500 Mb Ext2), but it won't use it!
-> If I select "Data on EXT2 Data.img" during installation, it makes a "data.img" file on my FAT32 partition, but I think it is even not using it..
This may sound wierd, but your /data dir is inside data.img. The file is mounted via loop to that dir. Windows analogy, TrueCrypt, although for other purposes.
-> If i select "Data on SDCard partition", it says he's not able to "umount /data"..
Your SD card MUST correctly be partitioned. Windows will not partitions removable drives, please use dedicated software. Take this syntax and apply for you SD size:
For a 4GB sd, 3.2 gb for first PRIMARY partition FAT32, 64mgs for 2nd PRIMARY partition EXT2, 512 mgs for 3rd PRIMARY partition EXT. Your SDcard will be the Fat32 partition, your data the last partition. Adjust acordingly.
2° The camera doesnt works.. Do I need to change the kernel (.nbh file I guess?) or is it a ROM problem?
NBH might be considered a ROM, the kernel (and others) part of it. The Androidinstall.tar might also be considered a ROM, the system part of it (in this case, Android OS).
But yes... perhaps a very wrong mismatch of kernel VS androidinstall.tar
3° I wonder if I could be able to transfer files from my PC to my phone.. If it does, how could I do it?
Not easy. You cannot mount the sd card via USB. Not yet at least.
You will never be able to mount the sdcard if you use the data.img option. (both Android and your computer cannot access at the same time to the sdcard. Cut android from /data, and expect SERIOUS malfunctions.
(i digress... but if /data was in data.img, and /sdcard as in sdcard.img you could mount the sdcard. But then again... Kaiser MMC/SD reader is quite.... SLOW.)

daedric said:
1° I can't install softwares on the microSD card.. Tried to make a EXT2 partition (1500 Mb FAT32 + 500 Mb Ext2), but it won't use it!
-> If I select "Data on EXT2 Data.img" during installation, it makes a "data.img" file on my FAT32 partition, but I think it is even not using it..
This may sound wierd, but your /data dir is inside data.img. The file is mounted via loop to that dir. Windows analogy, TrueCrypt, although for other purposes.
-> If i select "Data on SDCard partition", it says he's not able to "umount /data"..
Your SD card MUST correctly be partitioned. Windows will not partitions removable drives, please use dedicated software. Take this syntax and apply for you SD size:
For a 4GB sd, 3.2 gb for first PRIMARY partition FAT32, 64mgs for 2nd PRIMARY partition EXT2, 512 mgs for 3rd PRIMARY partition EXT. Your SDcard will be the Fat32 partition, your data the last partition. Adjust acordingly.
2° The camera doesnt works.. Do I need to change the kernel (.nbh file I guess?) or is it a ROM problem?
NBH might be considered a ROM, the kernel (and others) part of it. The Androidinstall.tar might also be considered a ROM, the system part of it (in this case, Android OS).
But yes... perhaps a very wrong mismatch of kernel VS androidinstall.tar
3° I wonder if I could be able to transfer files from my PC to my phone.. If it does, how could I do it?
Not easy. You cannot mount the sd card via USB. Not yet at least.
You will never be able to mount the sdcard if you use the data.img option. (both Android and your computer cannot access at the same time to the sdcard. Cut android from /data, and expect SERIOUS malfunctions.
(i digress... but if /data was in data.img, and /sdcard as in sdcard.img you could mount the sdcard. But then again... Kaiser MMC/SD reader is quite.... SLOW.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for this fast answer.
Do you have any solution to see the camera working?
I partitioned with PartitionWizard for Windows, very useful tool, which is able to support Ext2, etc..
But the problem is that if I select the "SD partition" option (to stock the data) in the Android installer, it says "unable to umount /data"..
I will give it a try with 3 partitions as you said
Edit : okay, so, I made these 3 partitions (on a 2Gb SD) : 1500 Mb FAT32 + 32Mb EXT2 + 300Mb EXT2, it is approximately the same.
Then I boot the phone, I select "Sys on NAND", "Data on SDCard partition", I try to install, some (normal) text appears, but nothing more..
And, if I select "Data on EXT2 Data.img", it makes a "Data.img" in my 1.5Gb FAT32 partition! It makes no sense..

I also have another question : could you explain me the difference between ODEX and DEODEX ?
I made searchs on the web, but not very useful help..

No comment about your search skills....
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=756659

Oh thanks. This page was even in my bookmarks..
Maybe I saw it but did not read the good lines..
L1qU1d, do you have some answers for my previous questions??

Which one? daedric responded well to all the questions

Not really.
I'm still unable to use the camera (with Froyo ROMs).
And I'm still unable to stock data on a EXT2 partition (in my SDCard)..
Also, I noticed today that I can't install some ROMs, as "Fat Free Froyo"..
With the same options than other ROMs, it wont boot.. So sad!

zebra363 said:
Not really.
I'm still unable to use the camera (with Froyo ROMs).
And I'm still unable to stock data on a EXT2 partition (in my SDCard)..
Also, I noticed today that I can't install some ROMs, as "Fat Free Froyo"..
With the same options than other ROMs, it wont boot.. So sad!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you mean your front camera or the main camera on the back side of the phone?
Front camera doesn't work in any builds.
Back camera needs to be fixed by flashing another radio.
Radios can be found here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=393182

Funny thing with my case. My camera doesn't work either (but chose not to bother with it), as I have two issues.
1. All radios 1.65.xx make my camera unusable, but phone is stable.
2. 1.71.xx radios allow camera function but break phone stability.
So in my case it's Catch 22, lol. Do I want the camera but an unstable phone or no camera and stable phone.
Sent from my AT&T Tilt using XDA App

Hmm, tried every radio?
If that's the case I would prefer stability above the camera.
Since the camera quality isn't super anyways so.

My Tilt had the 1.65.21.18 radio loaded stock when I got it, still using it to this day and having no trouble with instability, and yes tried all 1.65.xx radios and none allow camera usability. Used all 1.71.x radios, all unstable but camera works, and even then I get one shot out of it and the phone crashes.
Sent from my AT&T Tilt using XDA App

If yo ucahnge te data location in nbheditor - fstab did you get a error?

syntax1993 said:
Do you mean your front camera or the main camera on the back side of the phone?
Front camera doesn't work in any builds.
Back camera needs to be fixed by flashing another radio.
Radios can be found here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=393182
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I mean both! On the android wiki, they says both are supported..
Krazy-Killa said:
My Tilt had the 1.65.21.18 radio loaded stock when I got it, still using it to this day and having no trouble with instability, and yes tried all 1.65.xx radios and none allow camera usability. Used all 1.71.x radios, all unstable but camera works, and even then I get one shot out of it and the phone crashes.
Sent from my AT&T Tilt using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using 1.70.19.09, and it is even not so stable, and there's no camera.. So sad.. So, do you advise me to install 1.65.x radio?
l1q1d said:
If yo ucahnge te data location in nbheditor - fstab did you get a error?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My SD is partitioned like this : 1.5Gb FAT32 + 32Mb EXT2 + 300Mb EXT2
Following your advice, I started ATools and made these changes :
- System -> Auto
- Data -> SD Partition 3 (300 Mb)
- Swap -> SD Partition 2 (32 Mb)
I installed, and at first boot, it says "System is not responding". But after a while (30 secs), it boots, but totally unstable, many problems..
Maybe should I remove the "Swap" option?
Also, another question : how could I know my "LCD Panel" type? I have sometimes display issues like the white screen so I guess "Auto" option is not a good choice.

zebra363 said:
I mean both! On the android wiki, they says both are supported..
I'm using 1.70.19.09, and it is even not so stable, and there's no camera.. So sad.. So, do you advise me to install 1.65.x radio?
My SD is partitioned like this : 1.5Gb FAT32 + 32Mb EXT2 + 300Mb EXT2
Following your advice, I started ATools and made these changes :
- System -> Auto
- Data -> SD Partition 3 (300 Mb)
- Swap -> SD Partition 2 (32 Mb)
I installed, and at first boot, it says "System is not responding". But after a while (30 secs), it boots, but totally unstable, many problems..
Maybe should I remove the "Swap" option?
Also, another question : how could I know my "LCD Panel" type? I have sometimes display issues like the white screen so I guess "Auto" option is not a good choice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yah the front camera is supported but only in the kernel. Our android builds still don't have the software to utilize the front camera.
If you really want to use the camera try flashing a 1.71.xx radio but if you want stability go 1.65.xx radios.
Swap should actually improve performance, but that also depends on your SD Card Class (class 6 is recomended)
There's really no way to know what lcd panel you have except by experimenting. I'm using Panel 3 though I still get the white screen I don't have any issues with it powering back on. Panel 2 is most common however.
Btw some builds have their launcher on /data. You can check by using the mixer in aTools and possibly move the launcher into /system (Though MAKE SURE you don't overfill /system. No more than 100MB for the /system folder is what I recommend)
If the Launcher is on /data that could explain your slow performance.
Sent from my AT&T Tilt using XDA App

Krazy-Killa said:
Yah the front camera is supported but only in the kernel. Our android builds still don't have the software to utilize the front camera.
If you really want to use the camera try flashing a 1.71.xx radio but if you want stability go 1.65.xx radios.
Swap should actually improve performance, but that also depends on your SD Card Class (class 6 is recomended)
There's really no way to know what lcd panel you have except by experimenting. I'm using Panel 3 though I still get the white screen I don't have any issues with it powering back on. Panel 2 is most common however.
Btw some builds have their launcher on /data. You can check by using the mixer in aTools and possibly move the launcher into /system (Though MAKE SURE you don't overfill /system. No more than 100MB for the /system folder is what I recommend)
If the Launcher is on /data that could explain your slow performance.
Sent from my AT&T Tilt using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think I will go for stability, I'm using another phone to take pictures, so I dont care about that.
Tried without changing the Swap, but it's still the same, system still crashes..
I can't find this option in aTools mixer.. Or, I don't know how to check it..
My priority is having a good and stable (then maybe fast, also) ROM, with applications installed on my SD card..

Run a search for aTools here on the forums, there should be a thread along with a link to a tutorial on how to use the mixer.
I would but I'm on my phone, and 3G here is crap, lol.
Sent from my AT&T Tilt using XDA App

Krazy-Killa said:
Run a search for aTools here on the forums, there should be a thread along with a link to a tutorial on how to use the mixer.
I would but I'm on my phone, and 3G here is crap, lol.
Sent from my AT&T Tilt using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem, thanks for your help.
Which ROM could you advise me, for stability?
NotSoSuperFroyo seems to be very stable, but I can't really judge it..
I installed Radio 1.65.21.18 as yours, and will give it a try!
Also, is there an application to read .AVI (Divx) videos?? As TCPMP (Windows Mobile) or VLC (iPhone / Windows)

Gingerbones, but then again I use it because it's stripped down do much that I can customize it to my liking and let's me isolate problems.
The other is not so super froyo, as it's pretty stable too.
Sent from my AT&T Tilt using XDA App

I think I will edit this topic as a basic FAQ
Could someone teach me how to :
1. Watch youtube videos on Android ?
2. Watch my .avi files ??
3. Take notes (as Windows Mobile notepad, where you can draw & write!) ?
Thanks a lot!