I know I m a noob
jkoljo was very kind and explained to me here that S-ON or S-OFF is some kind of a flag that we set to enable or disable the ability to write on the internal memory of the device
but what about radio and ENG? what are they?
Thanks
I might as well answer this one
Radio is a piece of firmware, it is basically software for your device's telecommunications chip. It controls wifi, calls, bluetooth etc. Radios are different, and some of them have better battery life and signal quality than others. All of them have been released by HTC, we cannot make them ourselves.
ENG means engineering. We have ENG S-OFF for Desire HD, that is an engineering bootloader that has additional functionality. It allows your device to receive fastboot commands, so that you can flash a radio and other more exotic stuff. The bootloader has also been modified in a binary level so that it gives you S-OFF.
Something about different S-OFFs: When the bootloader is running, it asks radio whether we are S-ON or S-OFF. Radio reads the @secuflag, and returns the value. Then the bootloader sets security level accordingly.
In radio S-OFF, we modify that @secuflag. In ENG S-OFF, the bootloader does not actually ask anything (because it has been modified), and it gets a default answer, S-OFF. Radio S-OFF is a more permanent solution, and also safer because it does not involve writing your device's bootloader again. You can compare getting ENG S-OFF to flashing a BIOS into a PC.
Your answers are so awesome that I'll buy you a beer man!
Thank you very much
jkoljo said:
I might as well answer this one
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How many times have you said that on this type of topic? I know I asked the same
Related
Hi There,
I wish to flash a radio update. Currently I have ENG S-OFF. I did run the One Click Radio S-OFF tool. It succeeded. It still says ENG S-OFF. not Radio S-OFF or something. Can I still flash a radio?
Thanks in advance.
greetz, Haru
Hi,
If you flashed ENG HBOOT then that will still remain. Check your CID, Power off, Power On + Volume Down, System Info. If CID has a load of 1's, your good to go. If it says HTC_...... then the easy radio S-OFF didn't work.
andyharney said:
Hi,
If you flashed ENG HBOOT then that will still remain. Check your CID, Power off, Power On + Volume Down, System Info. If CID has a load of 1's, your good to go. If it says HTC_...... then the easy radio S-OFF didn't work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the Info!!!!
No problem. I take it your are Radio S-OFF?
Hi,
I wasn't aware of ENG S-OFF but I already did Radio S-OFF with this (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=857537). Installed Visionary+ and gain permanent root (check in terminal with 'su'). I'm just wondering I can do ENG S-OFF. I like to flash Revolution ROM. I have the earliest Radio version and I like to update one of the two radio version as recommended by Revolution ROM. Please advise.
HTC Desire HD Stock ROM perm-rooted.
You can do ENG S-OFF using my tool, check link in my signature
ehhm... the topic says "difference between ship/eng s-off" .. so whats the difference? strange thread, topic not matching with content. plz tell me the difference!
Schneizel said:
ehhm... the topic says "difference between ship/eng s-off" .. so whats the difference? strange thread, topic not matching with content. plz tell me the difference!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you read the OP you will see what they were trying to ask. Not everyone that uses these forums has English as there first language, you're question therefore could be taken offensively.
Your question is also therefore off topic but I do concede that plenty of people will find this thread looking for the same information that you ask for.
With that in mind and put simply...
Radio S-OFF is a way of switching of a security feature that allows you to flash radio's not meant for your ROM or network.
ENG S-OFF is a replacement HBOOT (ENGineering) allowing you to flash different ROM's and Kernels. And provides a means to rescue the phone from a lot of "almost bricked" states.
For more detailed answer please search as there are dozens of threads already about this.
Mr_JMM said:
If you read the OP you will see what they were trying to ask.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Strange, I would recommend to read the author to get what is it all about, not the interpretator (who got it the way he liked answering the real problem, not the topic question, but read further for explanation).
Mr_JMM said:
Not everyone that uses these forums has English as there first language, you're question therefore could be taken offensively.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you see improper in his question meaning english knowing? I dont get it at all, maybe coz I'm polish. I understand either the topic and the first post.
Mr_JMM said:
Your question is also therefore off topic
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I can see (and I still can see even if my eyes are so tired programming...), his question covers the topic much more than the authors question or any answer but yours.
And as I promised - back to the topic and some explanations:
Mr_JMM said:
With that in mind and put simply...
Radio S-OFF is a way of switching of a security feature that allows you to flash radio's not meant for your ROM or network.
ENG S-OFF is a replacement HBOOT (ENGineering) allowing you to flash different ROM's and Kernels. And provides a means to rescue the phone from a lot of "almost bricked" states.
For more detailed answer please search as there are dozens of threads already about this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this answer is too simple to get the difference usable in any way. As far as I wasted two weeks to get the knowledge how and with what I do want do modify my phone, I still do not get this difference enough to say that I want ENG S-OFF or not. The author of this topic would answer to himself too if this would be clear enough. And no, there is no definitive description easily found by google when you use "difference eng s-off radio s-off" terms. First match links to this thread which is a mislead, and other won;t even link to XDA but still, no definitive clear answer.
It would be nice to have this answer here considering a fact that google "thinks" it should be here.
And thats why I argued with your opinion of being off-topic (and yes, I see that the guy was lil irritated but it has nothing to do with being off topic I assume).
So now, I kindly ask that anyone could write detailed description. For example which "almost bricked states" can be repaired (what actions could be done to cause those states too), what ROMs won't flash using only Radio S-OFF (since I've read that ROM Manager _will_ work without Eng S-OFF), why kernels could not be updated if ROMs can (or why I've found misleading information that ROMs can), and so on. As far as I've read, Radio S-OFF is a flag which HBOOT reads and sees that it should allow changes, and Eng S-OFF is a patch to HBOOT not to read this flag and just assume that it should allow changes so it should be basically almost the same thing, but I can imagine that at the early stages of booting it can matter. So... it's still a quite black magic for a noob as me even if I know what is happening coz I do not know the consequences not knowing the system (even if I'm a linux programmer).
So, I would be very happy to see answer here instead of complaining . Or at least a links to posts which will cover this topic really clearly, coz I could not find one.
PS. And sorry for advising while being noob, but as it seems, noobs are the group which needs such information and help, so I've put some effort to describe why it is important to answer real topic question... I hope it won't be considered as rude
Radio s-off: a security flag that allows/rejects you to write things permanently into the NAND. Also grants you the so called super-cid.
Eng hboot (eng s-off): an engineering bootloader with more funktions than the stock one (fastboot commands in our case)
If you look at the first line at the bootloader:
ace pvt ship s-on
Ship means stock hboot. If it says eng instead, you have an engineering hboot
S-on/off is only for the radio.
If you have radio s-off but shipped hboot it will say
Ace pvt ship s-off
Sent out of my Free Candy Van.
Flussen said:
Radio s-off: a security flag that allows/rejects you to write things permanently into the NAND. Also grants you the so called super-cid.
Eng hboot (eng s-off): an engineering bootloader with more funktions than the stock one (fastboot commands in our case)
If you look at the first line at the bootloader:
ace pvt ship s-on
Ship means stock hboot. If it says eng instead, you have an engineering hboot
S-on/off is only for the radio.
If you have radio s-off but shipped hboot it will say
Ace pvt ship s-off
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i see, so the difference between ship and eng is that eng has more functions - thanks
Yep, and it allows you to do more. For example it allows you to flash images in fastboot (like a radio or splash).
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
jkoljo said:
Yep, and it allows you to do more. For example it allows you to flash images in fastboot (like a radio or splash).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, thats what I supposed talking about "bricked states", but still... What is the difference for the user which does not harm his phone? I mean for example your kernel update tool (why doesn't it work on radio s-off? only reason is that it uses fastboot or is there other problem?)
If this all is only about a fastboot then it's obvious that Eng S-OFF is completely useless for normal user. Kernel can be upgraded in many ways - it's just a more work for tool developer (like ClockworkMod flashing for example). Am I right?
By the way, why can't "we" produce RUU or OTA or any other (if exists) updates like HTC or Google just to be downloaded and flashed - in the meaning of modded androids of course? Why not just omit S-ON like google does? Is it only a problem of cracking the place which will allow to download updates from for example different IP? We have root so... in theory it's just a matter of a good cracker job... (but this one is now not quite for this topic, i just winded up myself, sorry )
good thread guys i started one of these of my own in the sensation Q&A.
Im wondering if these eng s-off links for DHD will work for my sensation. Eng s-off seems to be the hot topic lately im trying to broaden my horizon in Customizing my device. thanks again for the info on the differences.
I downloaded the new version of Android Revolution Rom for my incredible S a few hours ago. It was also recommanded to update my radio to use with this custom ROM. It was written in help file of radio:
"Your phone must be ENG S-OFF. Radio S-OFF is also highly recommended."
If ENG S-OFF provides more functionality, why radio s-off is also highly recommanded? Or maybe radio s-off does'nt have anything to do with eng s-off. In my bootloader, it is written ship s-off and I am still confused if I can flash the radio or not. and still mixed up by the differences!
I'm just confused... I'm new to Android and i was just wondering if ENG S-off is the same as Radio S-off... my phone is currently Rooted and have ENG S-off do i need to the One click radio S-off? -noob- here
I am with the same condition as you and asked a similar question here and here is the answer :
jkoljo said:
Yes that is right, you need to use this tool (or script methods in forum) if you want to flash using kernel update utility.
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So for Kernel flashing or similar issues, yes we need extra ENG S-Off which I would recommed you to use the tool on the link above If you are a newbie like me.
eozen81 said:
I am with the same condition as you and asked a similar question here and here is the answer :
So for Kernel flashing or similar issues, yes we need extra ENG S-Off which I would recommed you to use the tool on the link above If you are a newbie like me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you meant to say we need the extra radio s-off, not eng s-off. Just to avoid any confusion.
I´ve got the same problem. I don´t realy know the difference between ENG S-Off and SHIP S-Off.
I have have ROOT and ENG S-Off, but after I run Easy-RADIO-S-Off everythimg is the same like before.
Is there maybe another way to get Radio-S-Off?
For my ENG S-Off, I´ve made a step by step way with the terminal Emulator.
I need your Help
If you do Radio S-OFF on top of ENG S-OFF, nothing else is supposed to change but bootloader>system info CID. If you did full Radio S-OFF, which contains SuperCID and SimUnlock, the CID should be 11111111.
The differences of both S-OFFs:
- Radio S-OFF is more permanent, safer
- ENG S-OFF allows to use fastboot commands, such as fastboot flash radio
- Radio S-OFF (with SuperCID) allows downgrading from anything, it disables device version checking. If HTC has "banned" a certain downgrade from one version to the other, Radio S-OFF allows it.
@jkoljo
thx for your reply
I still have root and ENG S-Off. How can I get Radio S-Off and SuperCID too?
I´ve searched in the forum up and down. It seems that the Easy-Radio-S-Off Tool doesn´t work... ? Do you have another way for me?
Didn't the CID change (bootloader system info)? Because nothing else is supposed to change in the bootloader after you run the tool. Check Radio S-OFF tool troubleshooting. There is also a manual method posted by Apache, which uses older unlock code version than my tool.
jkoljo said:
If you do Radio S-OFF on top of ENG S-OFF, nothing else is supposed to change but bootloader>system info CID. If you did full Radio S-OFF, which contains SuperCID and SimUnlock, the CID should be 11111111.
The differences of both S-OFFs:
- Radio S-OFF is more permanent, safer
- ENG S-OFF allows to use fastboot commands, such as fastboot flash radio
- Radio S-OFF (with SuperCID) allows downgrading from anything, it disables device version checking. If HTC has "banned" a certain downgrade from one version to the other, Radio S-OFF allows it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this explains everything... thnx so much for the reply... mind my ignorance... xD
SEW580 said:
@jkoljo
thx for your reply
I still have root and ENG S-Off. How can I get Radio S-Off and SuperCID too?
I´ve searched in the forum up and down. It seems that the Easy-Radio-S-Off Tool doesn´t work... ? Do you have another way for me?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi SEW580,
I had the same problem, apeared to be the wrong option/choice I made when I used te tool. you have to use the FIRST option ("Radio S-OFF, Super-CID an Sim Unlock"), this worked for me.
Let me know if it also did for you...
Jan
I would 100% get radio s-off. That way if Htc screw you over with an update which breaks root you aren't stranded.
jverven said:
Hi SEW580,
I had the same problem, apeared to be the wrong option/choice I made when I used te tool. you have to use the FIRST option ("Radio S-OFF, Super-CID an Sim Unlock"), this worked for me.
Let me know if it also did for you...
Jan
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Tool is great, but it doesn´t work at mine. I tryed every option from first to last. I´ve got SU, Root and ENG S-OFF. I did everything whats needed. I run the Tool, it asked for permission, I confirm, it finished succesful, but nothing changes - no Radio S-Off or SuperCID :-(
Please try the 2.2 version, it tells you what went wrong.
By the way if you have a new radio in your phone, you have to downgrade first before running the tool.
jkoljo said:
Please try the 2.2 version, it tells you what went wrong.
By the way if you have a new radio in your phone, you have to downgrade first before running the tool.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, its done. After i´ve downgraded the RADIO, I used Version 2.2 and it works.
I´´m the proud Owner of a SuperCID
cool.....................
Basically, I have rooted my Desire HD, and turned ENG S-Off. I now want to turn Radio S-Off.
I have used Easy Radio Tool, and it confirmed the process with SuperCID and Unlock.
However, if I go to Bootloader, it says "ACE PVT ENG S-OFF" but in the System Info it confirms SuperCID by showing "CID-11111111"
I just want to know if I am able to flash the radio yet, or if something has gone wrong?
Thanks,
Sorry, found the answer here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=889390
I ran Radio S-OFF on top of ENG S-OFF and nothing was meant to change apart from the SuperCID.
Hello, i have flashed new ROM on my phone (DHD) ROM - ARHD 6.3.1
then i wanted to flash radio too. I did it like is written at instructions, but i have a problem.
When i wrote to black command prompt "fastboot flash radio radio.img
It wrote: sending -> done
writing "radio" -> failed <remote: not allowed>
Can you help me what to do please? of course i had USB debuging enabled.
It sounds like you don't have ENG S-OFF on your DHD - to flash any file using the fastboot.exe method, you need ENG S-OFF.
See this thread to flash an engineering hboot to your phone and get ENG S-OFF:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=855403
Or this thread for an alternative way to flash radios without replacing the hboot on your phone:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1054304
Hope that helps.
I hadn't S-OFF thank you!
But i dont understand why, i have custom ROM so i had to do ENG S-OFF, didnt I?
You have SHIP S-OFF. Not ENG S-OFF.
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
Yes, thank you
i am beginner in this, i dont know many things about it. Its too many informations for me right know, so excuse me please
Well you got as far as rooting your phone and flashing a custom ROM, so you're doing good. Mind you, a search on the error message would have turned up lots of results, so it's always a good idea to search first before asking questions.
SHIP S-OFF (also called Radio S-OFF) is a way of changing a security setting on your phone that allows you to write to parts of your phone's memory that are usually protected, such as the system partition where the ROM is. It also allows you to set the "Super CID" which allows carrier-locked phones to work on any network. However it doesn't allow you to use fastboot.exe to flash things to your phone.
ENG S-OFF is a complete replacement for the normal hboot (or bootloader) on your phone. It's an engineering version of hboot, and pretty much allows you to write to any part of your phone's memory, including using the fastboot.exe tool - which allows you to flash radios from the command line.
They're both ways of removing security on your phone, but they work in slightly different ways and complement each other.
You only need SHIP S-OFF to flash a custom ROM, but you need ENG S-OFF to flash a radio - unless you use the PD98IMG.ZIP file method from the second thread I linked. That will work with just SHIP S-OFF, since it doesn't make use of the fastboot.exe tool.
Hope that helps a bit rather than confuses things further.
I have searched all over and I cannot find an understandable answer to this question: what is the difference between ENG and SHIP S-OFF.
When I S-OFF'ed my Marvelc with the Goldcard method, I had SHIP S-OFF. I do understand that ENG S-OFF provides more features. It also seems that SHIP S-OFF is a radio patch and ENG S-OFF is an HBOOT patch. Is that correct?
To me, SHIP S-OFF seemed a lot like the HTCDEV bootloader unlock. I couldn't even access system.img or boot.img through fastboot (I had re-locked my bootloader with theq86's tool, but still had SHIP S-OFF.)
HTCDev is way more limited. ENG is short for engineering. Therefore, you must have an ENG HBOOT to have ENG S-OFF.
Sent from a Time Lord, using his TARDIS.
answers
kalaker said:
I have searched all over and I cannot find an understandable answer to this question: what is the difference between ENG and SHIP S-OFF.
When I S-OFF'ed my Marvelc with the Goldcard method, I had SHIP S-OFF. I do understand that ENG S-OFF provides more features. It also seems that SHIP S-OFF is a radio patch and ENG S-OFF is an HBOOT patch. Is that correct?
To me, SHIP S-OFF seemed a lot like the HTCDEV bootloader unlock. I couldn't even access system.img or boot.img through fastboot (I had re-locked my bootloader with theq86's tool, but still had SHIP S-OFF.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i`ll tell you
when you s-off it means that you can have total control over the nand and can write anything to the phone, and the s-on s-off imformation is stored on the radio partition of the phone, with the simlock and whatnot.
having s-off means that you can flash any hboot, but that hboot will be restricted to what kind of hboot it is.
for example. stock hboots will usuall not have fastboot commands enabled at all. where as the htcdev hboot does have fastboot commands enabled.(if all of them, i dont know) the htcdev bootloader unlocking system wont s-off your phone but when unlocked it enables you to write to the rom, recovery and system partitions.(i think thats right) the main thing is that it doesnt let you flash radios, and *shouldnt* let you access the radio partition at all, or else you could just s-off. (thats what the wildfire s-off campaign hopes to achieve)
but, the big man, the eng hboot, short for engineering hboot is what is used by the htc developers to issue fastboot commands to the phone, including s-on s-off command. what people want usually is to gain full s-off by any means the can and then flash a hboot that is fastboot enabled so the can use these commands.
something to note though, once you are s-off i think you can flash the htcdev hboot and use these commands without needing to unlock it. but that is speculation as i xtc clipped and i own the old wildfire (buzz)
hope this helps pal
The htcdev hboot has some fastboot commands built in, but only some. The eng hboot contains many more.