Develop Bugs

Silverlight the platform for creation Windows Phone 7 apps

Looks like Silverlight is the platform for creating Windows Phone 7 apps, finally.
http://www.crn.com/software/222900433;jsessionid=ZSTDUKCIARR4FQE1GHPCKHWATMY32JVN

I hope so, SIlverlight rocks, so much better on my PC than Flash but yet it isnt widely adopted, hopefully if WP7S has Silverlight this will boost its use

Finally!
It is indeed a very logical step.
I was trying to make a "fancy" UI on WinMo 6x and it's damn hard (that will work blazing fast). And search for a Silverlight for WinMo... and it was there... and it was showed on the TechEd 08... but never released... and I was like:
-Oh ... come on... how long does it take to port it??!

This is almost like a "duh" story but it's good to have a "source" saying it.
Silverlight will be for lightweight stuff and XNA 3 (4?) will be for Games, etc.
Imagine being able to write one app and have it work on multiple platforms with little or even no code changes. Silverlight supports multi-touch on Windows 7 too.

XNA and Silverlight. No native apps - see attach.

Can you already create SL applications for the WinMo?

DMAND said:
I hope so, SIlverlight rocks, so much better on my PC than Flash but yet it isnt widely adopted, hopefully if WP7S has Silverlight this will boost its use
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Yes silverlight rocks and i am learning it right now.

afma_afma said:
Yes silverlight rocks and i am learning it right now.
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Know any application? Link?

Developing .NET CF on WM6 is a -pain-. Even if you want to do something as simple as draw a transparent image you have to delve into P/Invoke which feels like hacking. If they get .NET development under WP7 working simply and effectively, then I think it will be a great step forward. I've used WPF extensively and it is a great platform to work on. I've no reason to think Silverlight is any different.
My only concern is how they'll restrict the distribution and installation of applications. The openness of the Windows Mobile platform has always been a big draw, and if they do an Apple and try to restrict how I publish and obtain apps then not many people will see a reason to switch from such an established and successful platform.

Extracting Native APIs? Possible...maybe.

Okay, so since the unlocked emulator has a file manager and task manager, does that mean it would be possible to extract them and run them on an actual WP7S device? And if that was possible, would it also be possible to extract the Native APIs from these apps? I'm fairly certain that they use Native APIs because ordinary apps can only access their own directory. I'm not very smart with these things, so sorry if it's obviously impossible or something.

It's wince - the native API is always there, where do you want to extract it from? Also some people figured out most WP7 apps from the emulator ROM are written in native as well. it's always here.
But you can't just put file manager on a WP7 device because there's no access for you to put anything on it, except apps from Marketplace you got the picture? even if we could cook our custom ROMs in the future the only thing we could do is throw in our own DLLs, services or background tools on it and customize it a little. I still doubt you'd be able to develop real WP7 style apps like a file manager or registry editor because the GUI is supposed to be written in Silverlight/XNA. And from those frameworks you can't access the native API unless Microsoft would add support for it.
101% dumb phone. If you think about it then WP7 is even WORSE then iphone.

But what if you could use Visual Studio to load it onto the device? If you look around in it, there is an option for that.

Actual devices will have to be unlocked for developement purposes to allow sideloading through Visual Studio and even then I doubt the system would be able to deploy native code. Developer phone means a yearly fee for membership in the MS developer programm.
I don't think that using native APIs from managed code would be impossible in the SDK - carriers, e.g. will be allowed to use it, but for normal applications the Security Context in .Net would prevent the programm from calling them (Code Security Managers are configurably available in Java and .Net from the beginning, so i believe that would be what MS uses to block access).
And of course programs using those wouldn't get on the marketplace.

Oh, too bad then, but thanks for your response anyway!

Fdo35 said:
Okay, so since the unlocked emulator has a file manager and task manager, does that mean it would be possible to extract them and run them on an actual WP7S device? And if that was possible, would it also be possible to extract the Native APIs from these apps? I'm fairly certain that they use Native APIs because ordinary apps can only access their own directory. I'm not very smart with these things, so sorry if it's obviously impossible or something.
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Okay, the issue here is the lack of a few key DLLs: Windows 7 Series will not offer GDI most likely (I'm downloading the emulator set now, and will confirm this soon) and will lack comctl32.dll and the like, removing these functions. As it's been stated before, like Windows 7 uses the 6.1 NT Kernel, Windows Phone 7 series uses the 6.5 Windows CE kernel, at least, last that I've heard. It would then be both possible to bring Windows Mobile 6.5 DLLs over, but anything that calls GDI will not work. Solution? Make a mock GDI that uses the new render.
This isn't new either, Windows 7 uses WPF more than ever (Which composes most of the games as well as Windows Media Center), which is a 3D accelerated and fancier way to draw to the screen, and Windows 7's GDI subset has been updated to allow hardware acceleration granted the graphics card allows it (It's actually something the video card driver must tell Windows, as MSDN states)

Deploy native code, no. Run it, of course
I'll be investigating the possibility of native code here shortly. Chances are, you will need to set the target to ARMV6, and set the compile type to Native, not Windows. Most developers, if not all, probably have overlooked this.

I would expect that it'll require privileged access to run native code, so you'll need to solve the code signing problem.

ThymeCypher said:
Okay, the issue here is the lack of a few key DLLs: Windows 7 Series will not offer GDI most likely (I'm downloading the emulator set now, and will confirm this soon) and will lack comctl32.dll and the like, removing these functions. As it's been stated before, like Windows 7 uses the 6.1 NT Kernel, Windows Phone 7 series uses the 6.5 Windows CE kernel, at least, last that I've heard. It would then be both possible to bring Windows Mobile 6.5 DLLs over, but anything that calls GDI will not work. Solution? Make a mock GDI that uses the new render.
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Well, I doubt things like comctl.dll and some other things like GWES will be that big of an issue once Platform Builder 7 is released and we can just generate these components ourselves. Hell, adding back GDI support (if those rumors aren't just lies) may be as easy as replacing the GWES with a less crippled one generated by Platform Builder. Maybe GDI support is still compiled in but just doesn't output directly to the screen using the default graphics driver implementation. That's how the Dreamcast implementation of Windows CE was. To even see apps like IE on the screen, you need to copy the contents of the standard WinCE GDI output to a DirectDraw surface.
What I'm more worried about is the hackability of the hardware/software. I'm really hoping it's not as insanely locked down to the point to being unhackable like every Zune.

do you think Platform builder is still available for WP7? Since MS won't allow the OEMs to modify the OS I doubt that. Do you have a source? You've seen an announcement from MS or something?

RAMMANN said:
do you think Platform builder is still available for WP7? Since MS won't allow the OEMs to modify the OS I doubt that. Do you have a source? You've seen an announcement from MS or something?
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Platformbuilder is for the OS, which is Windows CE. There is still some debate as to what version the emulator is running, leaving alone the possibility that the actual version of the OS may be different at release.
If the CE6R3 camp is right, you can get platform builder for that right now, though you wont have telshell.exe (WP7 replacement for explorer.exe), and the WP7 specific apps. It would be an interesting exercise to see if they could be run on CE6R3. If no one beats me to the punch, I plan on trying this for myself when I am less swamped at work.
If the CE7 camp is right, you will have to wait till MS releases that version to the public. And they WILL release it because there are far too many embedded systems outside of phones that run on CE for them to neglect it.

No, I was talking about the generic Windows CE 7.0 Platform Builder and not the OEM specific OAK for WP7S. Unless MS plans to completely drop their generic Embedded Windows CE offerings, I see no reason why PB 7.0 will not be released and help with hacking WP7S (if it is even based on 7.0). You always needed to be a large ODM and sing an NDA to use a Platform Builder addon/OAK for the MS platforms like Pocket PC. Those almost never leak and I can't imagine this would be much different.

RAMMANN said:
do you think Platform builder is still available for WP7? Since MS won't allow the OEMs to modify the OS I doubt that. Do you have a source? You've seen an announcement from MS or something?
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Yes, platform builder was used to build leaked wp7 arm image.
d:\wm700_6176\platform\common\src
\soc\qcom_v1\oal\power\sleep.c
It is from from nk.exe

use dumpbin.exe to get all methods in dll/exe

WM 6.5 emulator for WP7 ? Possable ?

Just a discussion came up and made me wonder if this is even possable. This is the place to ask, so here we go.
All WP7 models seem to run at 1ghz or higher, thinking the concept that WM 6.5 runs pretty well on hardware that runs at 400-528mhz range. Would it be possable to have a emulator that runs on the platform so you can run 6.1/6.5 on a WP7 phone ? This would allow you to be able to run some older apps with still having WP7.
I would not expect intense games (maybe a card game ok) to run at full speed or anything but, things like Remote desktop and other base apps might be ok with this.
This type of thing would run on any phone (with 1ghz+ hardware) just depending on if all the hardware is supported.
Or I guess there might be a way to "shut down" 7 and open 6.5 kind of how Android runs on the TP2.
The emulator idea came up because it might be able to run on any model with minor updates vs. a boot up just for one phone.
Just some ideas...even if it is possable.
Thanks for reading and dreaming (well I am still waiting for a Verizon WP7 phone)

No sorry, the emulator runs on the x86 architecture, not on ARM.
Dave

DaveShaw said:
No sorry, the emulator runs on the x86 architecture, not on ARM.
Dave
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Maybe I'm misreading the original question, but it sounds like he is asking if it were possible to have an app that would run old Windows Mobile apps, kind of like Classic on WebOS.

well at present we (3rd party) developers wouldn't be able to make something like this as all the APIs don't actually exist. someone with knowledge of the whole code base of windows phone 7 could probably do it but i doubt we'll see it happen. if there are programs you need on windows phone 7, it is definitely faster to just have it redone. it's really only the UI that needs redoing, if it was written in VB or C#, a lot of the code will still work.

PC Software –How to Run on Win Mobile?

I was wondering, tht when buying a new smartphone if I go with windows based OS on mobile, will I be able to run any software tht can run on windows based desktop computer? If not, such functionality is expected to come with forthcoming Windows 8 mobile?
PS: I wana run my live stock market terminal on mobile phone.

Since ver 7, the os is no longer called windows mobile; its now called windows phone. but to answer your question, no you can't run desktop applications on windows phone (or windows mobile for that matter) and this is unlikely to change.
That said I'm sure you can find another application to achieve whatever it is that you're after on the marketplace...

:-( my all needs are getting completed with an smartphone, but i guess eventually i will have to buy a laptop as well... just to run my stockmarket software.... Damn and they are telling smartphones (Like SGS2 etc.) are quickly replacing laptops...
PS: Wht is the latest ver. of windows phone called and, what is the windows phone marketplace url (Kind of new to smartphones)

Well for a lot of people smartphones or tablets can replace computers, most people aren't stockbrokers!
The latest version of Windows Phone is 7.5 Mango, which is currently at RTM stage - i.e. released to OEMs pending approval for new devices and upgrades to existing devices.
The Windows Phone Marketplace can only be accessed via the phone or via the Zune desktop software. The Zune software comes highly recommended from me, it's a very, very good media management software and I can't live without the wireless sync function anymore!
You can browse the marketplace through Zune without owning a Windows Phone device.
Perhaps you could let the community know what it is exactly that you need to do and someone might be able to suggest something?
EDIT: As you're new to smartphones, from a usability perspective Windows Phone 7 would be an excellent choice for you - it is simply brilliant to use, the interface is understated and elegant and the lack of pointless graphics makes it both simple and quick. Microsoft have clearly put massive effort into making Windows Phone highly usable and have surpassed pretty much all expectations, especially with the 7.5 update, which brings in a huge amount of functionality. A lot of people try and put Windows Phone down having never used it, because it's one of those things that needs you to spend 10 minutes with it to understand - but once you've spent 9 minutes with it, everything else just seems ridiculously complicated.
olivespin said:
:-( my all needs are getting completed with an smartphone, but i guess eventually i will have to buy a laptop as well... just to run my stockmarket software.... Damn and they are telling smartphones (Like SGS2 etc.) are quickly replacing laptops...
PS: Wht is the latest ver. of windows phone called and, what is the windows phone marketplace url (Kind of new to smartphones)
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Silverlight in Windows
Hi
Silverlight apps are currently available in Windows and I think that the concept being put out there at the moment is that Windows 8 will run the same apps as Windows Mobile 8.
Nobody knows if this will become a reality or not.
Cheers
andrew-in-woking

olivespin said:
I was wondering, tht when buying a new smartphone if I go with windows based OS on mobile, will I be able to run any software tht can run on windows based desktop computer? If not, such functionality is expected to come with forthcoming Windows 8 mobile?
PS: I wana run my live stock market terminal on mobile phone.
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The best thing for you to do would be to find a mobile version of the software you are trying to run. Then get the device that runs that particular software.
The closest you'll come to running your "exact" software on a mobile device is to get a Windows based tablet or laptop. But to run your stock software on a smartphone, you will need the "mobile" version of that software, if it exists.
Also, check to see if your stock-terminal application is web-based. If it is, you may be able to access what you need with ANY smartphone through the smartphone's web browser. That means your "stock terminal" would work on Windows Phone, iPhone, Android, etc.

[Q] Develop Apps for Windows Mobile

I want to develop simple apps for Windows Mobile. I read that I can use:
---Compact Framemork. (I downloaded Sharp Develop, it is free. It also exist a program from Resco that speedup the development with C.F.)
--- C or C++ or C# (I don't know if WinMo understand these...)
---Visual Basic (is difficult and Visual Studio isn't free, but I found another program that allows to develop more simple)
---Mortscript (I think is the most simple)
---Which is the best and the most simple language?
---Where can I read or download tutorials?
---I can not develop simple apps with images and sounds yet.
Please Help!

I want to develop
-a lock screen
-an app that turn on and turn off the leds of my device
-an app that change registry values (without softreset the device)
-an app that can copy, cut and delete files
-a Soft Imput Panel (a virtual keyboard)

I haven't done windows mobile development in quite some time, so things may have changed a bit. But to help you out better, it would be good to know what version of windows you intend to develop for (I assume Windows Phone 7?) as well as any specific devices you may want to concentrate on, and what experience you already have with coding.
MortScript is probably a good starting point, though if you want to get some real functionality going, you should look at C#.net CF. Take a look at this MSDN resource: LINK. It should be good for getting started.
I think that for modifying the registry, working with LEDs, and for the software keyboard you may need to use C++ ... though I can be mistaken. I'm not sure how Microsoft has worked out libraries and privileges in WP7.

Cyclonezephyrxz7 said:
I haven't done windows mobile development in quite some time, so things may have changed a bit. But to help you out better, it would be good to know what version of windows you intend to develop for (I assume Windows Phone 7?) as well as any specific devices you may want to concentrate on, and what experience you already have with coding.
MortScript is probably a good starting point, though if you want to get some real functionality going, you should look at C#.net CF. Take a look at this MSDN resource: LINK. It should be good for getting started.
I think that for modifying the registry, working with LEDs, and for the software keyboard you may need to use C++ ... though I can be mistaken. I'm not sure how Microsoft has worked out libraries and privileges in WP7.
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Thanks CycloneZephyrxz7.
I want to develop for Windows Mobile 6.X for devices with WVGA resolution.
But with Mortscript I can do less things? Because I can only write scripts.
Do you know how is written a simple app like "ClearTemp"?
I wait other replies from Devolpers and people that used these languages...