May be a noob battery question - EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

Can someone explain why my battery sheds the first 10 percent from full charge within a half hour or direct me to a post that could explain this?
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From what I've read, there's a chip inside the OEM batteries (the ones sold by HTC and included with the Evo) that prevents the battery from maintaining a full charge. This is because maintaining a full charge can overheat and overvolt the battery and cause problems.
Thus, when you unplug, your battery drops to where the charge actually ends up when the chip stops the charge from destroying the battery.
We used to have SBC kernels that rectified this problem, but after a couple of idiots forgot the part where it says "this may harm your phone, use with caution" they went on a terror-filled witch hunt and had them all taken down.
So, until there's another way, you're stuck with that buddy. Best of luck.

this is one of the more discussed topics nowadyas, or more the fix is.
so, li-on batterys like the evo one, can be damadged/metallic plated by containing a full charge for an extended period of time. so, battery manufacturers made charginng cycles, so once the battery is full, the charger will fully turn off until it has reached 90, and then power back up again.
recently, ms(numbers i cant remember. confusing username) made sbc (superior battery charging) kernels, that trickle charged, so your phone would sit at 4.2mV and not cycle. there has been much controversy about these, including some finger pointing and borked batteries (mine has never been the same since using these, but i really dont want to blame ms########) have lead to most if not all links being removed from the xda. too bad.

Thanks for the info guys, I just flashed a different kernal and did some set CPU clocking tweaks that have made me over joyed but for now it seems that the first 10 percent will have to be sacrificed, before I rooted my phone I got almost 18 hours out of my batt using juice defender I'm hoping for similar or better scores but I can't complain too much with the performance now
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joemaldo said:
Thanks for the info guys, I just flashed a different kernal and did some set CPU clocking tweaks that have made me over joyed but for now it seems that the first 10 percent will have to be sacrificed, before I rooted my phone I got almost 18 hours out of my batt using juice defender I'm hoping for similar or better scores but I can't complain too much with the performance now
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Easiest way to fix the instant drain is to unplug your phone when it has a full charge. Let it drop to around 92 percent <---My personal preference or you can wait about fifteen minutes. Plug your phone back in and wait for the led to turn green and unplug it right after it turns green. BOOM! All problems solved!

Good humor man....
If your phone was at 100% for a period of time, you would feel more at ease about using it. That would bring about three things.
First increased network usage. Secondly increased phone position among its competitors because of one. Thirdly an increased consumption of batteries, since batteries are based on a chemical reaction which is limited by design. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand it. Go to a university chemistry department and they will point you in the right direction. No flashing of internet credentials.
So you want a solution? You can't handle a solution.

Why not give this a shot http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=701567

Related

Correct way to cycle the EVO battery?

Hi can anyone tell me the correct way I should go about charging the EVO when I first get it? I'm getting it tomorrow and want to break the battery in the right way (if there is a right way), let me know!
I don't see how you should go about it in a special way different than every other phone
It's a LiIon battery as all of them, none basicaly needs to be cycled to work efficiently.
Or was this your own way to broadcast that you're getting the device tomorrow to let the rest of us drool in envy?
I definatly will say that the first few charges of the battery do NOT last long at all, battery drains REALLY fast.
This may be placebo, as I know that Android will get more efficient as the OS "settles down"
I always make sure to let it run until the device shuts off by itself before charging. Then charge to full and repeat. I try to do this 5 times, but it helps that I have a hero I can drain with, then charge and always have a full battery in my Evo.
ephestione said:
I don't see how you should go about it in a special way different than every other phone
It's a LiIon battery as all of them, none basicaly needs to be cycled to work efficiently.
Or was this your own way to broadcast that you're getting the device tomorrow to let the rest of us drool in envy?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so completely drain it then charge, drain, charge, etc?
lithium ion batteries do not need conditioned ... and actually prefer to be charged frequently (or so I have read). Just do a google search for lithium ion conditioning and almost every reference says that only the older technologies need it.
It's actually the phone that needs to learn the batteries fully charged to fully drained levels. A couple of full charge-drain cycles teaches the battery meter in the phone. Same deal for notebook computer batteries.
ephestione said:
I don't see how you should go about it in a special way different than every other phone
It's a LiIon battery as all of them, none basicaly needs to be cycled to work efficiently.
Or was this your own way to broadcast that you're getting the device tomorrow to let the rest of us drool in envy?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it was a way to get you guys to drool!
chazglenn3 said:
It's actually the phone that needs to learn the batteries fully charged to fully drained levels. A couple of full charge-drain cycles teaches the battery meter in the phone. Same deal for notebook computer batteries.
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Click to collapse
* Not sure if this applies to the battery in the EVO as I have never taken one apart yet ***
From what I recall most notebook (if not all) Lithium * batteries have an integrated charging / safety chip on the battery http://www.sbs-forum.org/ that maintains information about the battery level (via SMbus) and charge information. It is this chip that will report the current battery level and will disallow you to charge a battery at a certain point due to safety concerns.
What is common though is that it takes a couple of cycles for the onboard / outboard battery chip to learn the charge level which the host OS will just blindly read for the most part.
condition your battery
When you have a new cell phone battery there is a residual charge left from manufacturing..it may even say it is fully charged but it is a false reading. You need to charge the battery before you start using it for 8-12 hours. Then, use it down to about 25% and charge for another 8-12 hours. Repeat this process for the first 3-5 charges and then your battery will be conditioned.
After the initial conditioning your battery will last the longest if you do not let it run out until it dies. It is best to charge when at 25%-30% capacity.
Good luck!
kphenix said:
When you have a new cell phone battery there is a residual charge left from manufacturing..it may even say it is fully charged but it is a false reading. You need to charge the battery before you start using it for 8-12 hours. Then, use it down to about 25% and charge for another 8-12 hours. Repeat this process for the first 3-5 charges and then your battery will be conditioned.
After the initial conditioning your battery will last the longest if you do not let it run out until it dies. It is best to charge when at 25%-30% capacity.
Good luck!
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Click to collapse
Wow. First off, thanks for resurrecting a thread that's over a year old.
Second, your post is completely wrong. Lithium ion batteries do not need to be conditioned at all. Just plug it in, let it charge, and you are good to go.
They do need conditioning
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bootny said:
They do need conditioning
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Says who? Lithium ion batteries do not need any conditioning.
Really cuz It took a month for my battery to get 36+ he's because I didn't charge it right ( i use sbc) when I got and with my 3d I get 24+ hrs due to battery conditioning. Say what you will my girl does the same with her iPhone and get 2 1/2 days out of it while another friend of mine didn't and her battery is dead after twelve hours... no dis respect dog but it works contrary to beliefs
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bootny said:
Really cuz It took a month for my battery to get 36+ he's because I didn't charge it right ( i use sbc) when I got and with my 3d I get 24+ hrs due to battery conditioning. Say what you will my girl does the same with her iPhone and get 2 1/2 days out of it while another friend of mine didn't and her battery is dead after twelve hours... no dis respect dog but it works contrary to beliefs
Conditioning works for unknown r
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Conditioning works for unknown reasons. Not for the reasons, most people say. And its true lithium ion don't have memory any more so its not nearly as effective to condition. Also where are you getting those results? Those are f***ing insane
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lilman355 said:
Conditioning works for unknown reasons. Not for the reasons, most people say. And its true lithium ion don't have memory any more so its not nearly as effective to condition. Also where are you getting those results? Those are f***ing insane
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Results for the Evo? I use a 2600 mah sprint battery and when I use an eBay battery 3500 mah I get 14hrs max ( weird but it was only $15 for 2)... gonna try seidio next and see how they work... and w the 3d I ( also the 4g) I charge til green then unplug and plug til green ten times as suggested by xda thread that was on miui website only
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Use the search please..calibration methods are tried and true..nothing more to see here..let this thread die as the other poster indicated.
Search for battery calibration. I would copy and past the url's for you but I literally found 10+ threads about calibration methods for the EVO within seconds so it will be super easy for you to read one of the methods and apply for what we now see as perfect results.
As far as I know now, nobody complains about EVO battery life anymore unless they are using something to drain the power, bad coded app, kernel or poorly coded ROM etc. It happens sometimes but usually enough information out there to support fixing the issues once you see them.
Hope that helps and good luck..
waterbound said:
Use the search please..calibration methods are tried and true..nothing more to see here..let this thread die as the other poster indicated.
Search for battery calibration. I would copy and past the url's for you but I literally found 10+ threads about calibration methods for the EVO within seconds so it will be super easy for you to read one of the methods and apply for what we now see as perfect results.
As far as I know now, nobody complains about EVO battery life anymore unless they are using something to drain the power, bad coded app, kernel or poorly coded ROM etc. It happens sometimes but usually enough information out there to support fixing the issues once you see them.
Hope that helps and good luck..
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Click to collapse
Thank you!
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Battery calibration app

Could someone please develop a good app that would enable the battery to be drained as much as possible and to charge slower so we could all properly calibrate our batteries?
Do we really need this since it's a Li-ion battery? I know Ni-Mh and Ni-Cad has memory effect, but not on the Li-Ion battery.
I was just wondering the same thing today....simply because there seems to be several different methods to do it. Some say charge 8 hours, turn off, charge and hour, unplug, turn on charge 10 minutes. Then other methods say to do something different....be nice to have an app to walk you through different methods so you know step by step your doing it right
I calibrated mine last night and I'm going to get about 18 hours if not more from it....before yesterday I was getting 9.
The ONLY other different I did was make some profiles on CPU but I cant imagine it would make that much of a difference. I bet its a mix of both
deonjahy said:
Could someone please develop a good app that would enable the battery to be drained as much as possible and to charge slower so we could all properly calibrate our batteries?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is to funny I was just saying to my wife the other day that I should make one of these programs seeing that there are none already. I hate having to manually kill my battery every night before I charge it again.
Is it needed? It depends on your school of thought, some say yes, some say no. All I know is that on the few devices I have had in the past, if I constantly plug them in to "top them off" then the battery never ends up lasting very long after a few months of doing that. So I am a believer in killing the battery before charging on devices like these.
So the bottom line is if there is a desire for this, I may try to put an app together for it, as I know myself I am interested I just didn't think many others would be.
All the battery calibration tools, are basically deleting the file... right?
Is it that hard to boot into recovery and wipe battery stats?
deonjahy said:
Could someone please develop a good app that would enable the battery to be drained as much as possible and to charge slower so we could all properly calibrate our batteries?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the second part has to do with hardware. The phones hardware just doesn't have trickle charge implemented and instead lets it drop back down to 90% then starts charging it again.
As for the second part, it came on our phones, even has a default widget. 4G
paulieb81 said:
That is to funny I was just saying to my wife the other day that I should make one of these programs seeing that there are none already. I hate having to manually kill my battery every night before I charge it again.
Is it needed? It depends on your school of thought, some say yes, some say no. All I know is that on the few devices I have had in the past, if I constantly plug them in to "top them off" then the battery never ends up lasting very long after a few months of doing that. So I am a believer in killing the battery before charging on devices like these.
So the bottom line is if there is a desire for this, I may try to put an app together for it, as I know myself I am interested I just didn't think many others would be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um... actually that is (by most accounts) bad for Li-Ion. You want to AVOID completely draining them. All of this stuff is more art than science, but I have way more often heard that completely draining LI batteries is bad. What kills them is the number of cycles they have been through (like -25 +25, -25 +25, -50 +50 would be a full cycle).
You do however want to give them a full up down cycle once in a while (maybe every 1-3 months) for calibration.
Then again, as I said, it is more art than science, and I have heard your method as being better, but the not draining argument seems to be the vast majority.
I'll try to do a little look-see and update this or repost if I find any stronger evidence.
the thing about my phone and battery that ALWAYS baffled me was i would plug it in at night be it at 10% or 22 i would leave plugged in while slept i would wake up unplug and look at battery percentage and it would be like 95.....no other phone has even unplugged and dropped 5 percent by doing nothing????
turn your brightness to 100% and change it so that it never turns off; use wifi tether and play a 720p movie at the same time; oc your kernel to it's highest stable frequency. it'll drain pretty quickly.
I know I might get flamed for this....
Apple suggests, with their laptops, to once a month or so, run the battery completely down. Then let the battery cool down for a little bit. Then give it a full, uninterrupted, overnight charge. I forget if they said to repeat this a second time, then you're good.
This is all from memory of me reading this a couple years ago or so, so our might not be verbatim. Their laptops use lithium ion technology...
(and they used to blow up and melt down too!) Lol!
Wrong word choice and misspelling courtesy of swype.
mykeldrip said:
the thing about my phone and battery that ALWAYS baffled me was i would plug it in at night be it at 10% or 22 i would leave plugged in while slept i would wake up unplug and look at battery percentage and it would be like 95.....no other phone has even unplugged and dropped 5 percent by doing nothing????
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's because the phone stops charging when it reaches 100%, and runs off of battery probably until it reaches in the low 90s, then charges again. You won't ever notice this because the light will always be green. However, you'll notice that unplugging it a few moments after it turns green, the battery will stay anywhere from 100%-98% for a while. At least on my phone it does.
Is there any way to make this program "auto run" during sleep so it can do everything it needs to do during the night charge (similar to quickpull for blackberry)
laydros said:
I think the second part has to do with hardware. The phones hardware just doesn't have trickle charge implemented and instead lets it drop back down to 90% then starts charging it again.
As for the second part, it came on our phones, even has a default widget. 4G
Um... actually that is (by most accounts) bad for Li-Ion. You want to AVOID completely draining them. All of this stuff is more art than science, but I have way more often heard that completely draining LI batteries is bad. What kills them is the number of cycles they have been through (like -25 +25, -25 +25, -50 +50 would be a full cycle).
You do however want to give them a full up down cycle once in a while (maybe every 1-3 months) for calibration.
Then again, as I said, it is more art than science, and I have heard your method as being better, but the not draining argument seems to be the vast majority.
I'll try to do a little look-see and update this or repost if I find any stronger evidence.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am by no means an expert so if you find any reliable info on this and can link us to read, I would love to learn more. All I know is that it is commonly said to drain rechargeable batteries and that I have seen that topping them off very often does lead to battery life degradation.
Tyzing said:
Is there any way to make this program "auto run" during sleep so it can do everything it needs to do during the night charge (similar to quickpull for blackberry)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no need to fully drain the battery. Its purpose in calibration is to configure the software that is correlating voltage to percentage charged. That's all. Regarding the old Apple advice, that is doing the same thing. It will not affect the hardware.
Now, what WILL affect the hardware is charging itself. Every charge/discharge cycle will reduce the total capacity of the battery. This is why the EVO will not cycle on it's own until 10% discharged. It's improving the overall battery life by that restriction.
In short, you will save money overall by getting a higher capacity battery that you don't force to charge too often. Draining your battery does nothing but give you peace of mind and it only really needs recalibrating when it's total capacity has been reduced which isn't often. 3-6 months.
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herbthehammer said:
I know I might get flamed for this....
Apple suggests, with their laptops, to once a month or so, run the battery completely down. Then let the battery cool down for a little bit. Then give it a full, uninterrupted, overnight charge. I forget if they said to repeat this a second time, then you're good.
This is all from memory of me reading this a couple years ago or so, so our might not be verbatim. Their laptops use lithium ion technology...
(and they used to blow up and melt down too!) Lol!
Wrong word choice and misspelling courtesy of swype.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah except that's not a good idea, it will kill the weak cells.
I understand. Still think it would be useful if it would do the "juice until LED changes" method while sleeping though
paulieb81 said:
So the bottom line is if there is a desire for this, I may try to put an app together for it, as I know myself I am interested I just didn't think many others would be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm interested!
Btw - what are the charging calibrations people are using? Are you seeing one working better than another?
Im a noob, so take what I say worth a grain of salt but yesterday I did the standard method where you fully charge...turn off...plug back in until led changes green and do it a few times.
I went from 9 hours to 17 hours with no other changes except a few profiles in setCPU.
I did this just last night so my results are fresh.
Tyzing said:
I calibrated mine last night and I'm going to get about 18 hours if not more from it....before yesterday I was getting 9.
The ONLY other different I did was make some profiles on CPU but I cant imagine it would make that much of a difference. I bet its a mix of both
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A few SetCPU profiles is all it takes to see a dramatic increase in battery life, especially while screen off. If you disable it I bet whatever gain you think was from 'calibrating' it disappears.

Will "trickle-charge" kernels end up damaging our phones? *UPDATE: 8 CASUALTIES!*

Will "trickle-charge" kernels end up damaging our phones? *UPDATE: 8 CASUALTIES!*
I installed one of these amazing new kernels the other day and loved it. I was even able to keep 100% for about 30 minutes of usage and I was amazed. Yet today I checked Phandroid and an article from an XDA contributer came up:
http://phandroid.com/2010/12/25/you...is-lying-to-you-and-its-not-such-a-bad-thing/
In the article he explained (from what I understand) that he thinks knows it is a GOOD THING that phones aren't programmed to allow the battery to keep charging at the real 100% because it would end up damaging the battery in the end, much like how many of the early cell phone batterys would get damaged.
Until I find out the answer I (sadly) switched back to my old kernel, as I would rather be safe than sorry, at least until I find out for sure.
Any responses?
UPDATES:
_______________________________________________________________
CASUALTY LIST (please PM me any casualties, the list seems to be growing in numbers rapidly)
_______________________________________________________________
Battery Emitting "Smoke" : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=904577
Battery Failure during Trickle Charge: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=900412
SBC killed my battery: http://forum.androidcentral.com/htc-evo-4g-roms-hacks/51972-sbc-killed-my-battery.html
MIUI + Savage = dead battery http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10422140&postcount=9 and http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10432778&postcount=139
ANOTHER dead battery http://forum.androidcentral.com/htc-evo-4g-roms-hacks/51972-sbc-killed-my-battery-2.html#post517436
Battery loses charge after extended time with sbc kernel http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10431788&postcount=49
Another one bites the dust... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10457753&postcount=162
COUNT ME IN http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10469184&postcount=174
Current Count: 8
___________________________________________________________________
Various Dev Reactions:
Ziggy's editorial on WHY these kernels shouldn't exist and are dangerous (written before the new epidemic of dead batteries):http://www.ziggy471.com/2011/01/02/overcharging-batteries/
Netarchy's post explaining why he's REMOVING all SBC kernels from his page: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10421166&postcount=6185
___________________________________________________________________
THIS IS A CALL TO ALL ROM/KERNAL DEVELOPERS: Please don't include this feature in our favorite roms. I have been having to switch Kernels on my latest roms becuase I don't want to risk killing my battery (and that is a PAIN)
My $0.02:
I trust these developers on this site ALOT. What they have managed to do with the software is amazing. However, software is software. These trickle-charge kernels were amazing SOFTWARE-WISE. However, the effects of charges on batteries are not your specialty, so while it may be amazing that you all developed these kernels, there effect on the battery is not alright. I (sorry) trust an industry of battery/software engineers over some basement-developers who like pushing the limits (Pushing the limits is awesome, just not when it comes to batteries lol)
hmsheen10 said:
I installed one of these amazing new kernels the other day and loved it. I was even able to keep 100% for about 30 minutes of usage and I was amazed. Yet today I checked Phandroid and an article from an XDA contributer came up:
http://phandroid.com/2010/12/25/you...is-lying-to-you-and-its-not-such-a-bad-thing/
In the article he explained (from what I understand) that he thinks knows it is a GOOD THING that phones aren't programmed to allow the battery to keep charging at the real 100% because it would end up damaging the battery in the end, much like how many of the early cell phone batterys would get damaged.
Until I find out the answer I (sadly) switched back to my old kernel, as I would rather be safe than sorry, at least until I find out for sure.
Any responses?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, there is a reason why all the phone makers have them charge like that and there is also a reason why putting custom roms on your phone voids your warranty.
Remember hearing about all those ipod and lap top batteries that liked to blow up?
Edit: he's also forgetting that when the battery gets close to full the voltage starts changing less and less, to the point that it is nearly impossible to accurately tell how much battery you have when it is over 80% full
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i knew it was too good to be true :\
yea i get amazing battery life with this trickle charging only when i leave it on charger for around 7+ hours. Sounds like i should stop using that then damn
Edit: didnt mean to quote anyone
From what I read the article didnt reveal any specifics to if and when it will damage a battery.The article seemed to suggest that because battery manufacturers changed how they implimented charging it means that trickle charging is bad. It does not have enough variables in this observation to come to any conclusion. If advancements have been made in the battery industry you could also come to the conlcusion that trickle charging is or would be ok.
I am not trying to go against the article or this thread but simply wondering if after a thorough evaluation of the battery capacity after say 3 months using trickle charging and one without trickle charging we give an conclusion.
If need be I will run my phone with trickle charging, will someone else volunteer there phone for research?
For the extra bump I get every day now Ill by a new battery for 15 bucks a little more often. Its worth it for me YMMV
Yep, trickle charging is bad for the battery. Rememebr when all those laptop batteries were catching on fire? Same thing could potentially happen if your battery is not charged properly. They charge the batteries the way they do for a reason. That reason is relatively long battery life and safety.
Here is a good article on the subject.
I think that the makers of all these new kernels than should put up a warning specifically pertaining to the dangers of the kernel
Sent from my EVO
Quoting ms79723 :
Will this damage my battery?
This charging method doesnt damage the batteries at all. It shouldnt. Because our batteries dont even charge up to 4.2V without the tweak. They charge up to 4.2V the first charge, then drop all the way down to 4.08V or something and then does these weird short burst chargers to 4.1-4.125V. Thats why there's the rapid drop in the morning. Because your voltage is actually at 4.125V and that's not 100%. So with this tweak, the charger keeps charging until you're at 4.2V (or the maximum voltage your battery can get to) and then it trickle chargers while at that voltage. The charger itself never turns off. Thats not a bad thing. Because as you reach your actual voltage, the mA decreases. Which is why our phones will never be damaged. You ever want to know why its really easy to charge from 50-80% but the charge from 90-100% seems to take so long? Its because from 50% the mA going into the phone is in the 600's. Once it reaches 90%, the mA is around 150 and once it reaches 95% you're looking at 90mA. The phone when absolutely idle uses anywhere from 60-120mA, even when on the charger. So charging from 90% to 100% takes longer becaus the mA going into the phone isnt always higher than the mA you're losing. This is the same with charging past 100%. As you leave the phone on the charger with this tweak, you're mA will decrease from 50mA all the way down to 2mA overnight. But on the charger you're losing about 30-60mA already, so you'll never overcharge the battery, in best case scenarios, you'll just maintain the voltage of 4.2 or around 4.2V.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, if you read their thread, they say they disagree that any harm is being done.
Personally, I am not a battery expert, though I do have some experience with them in the EV car field, but my understanding is these batteries will be damaged if continuously held at a full charge. That is why the manufacturers design the system to full charge, then discharge to approximately 90% and then charge again, continuously cycling the battery.
From what I have read and from talking to the guys who design Li-ion batteries, they say that prolonging the time that the battery is at full charge significantly reduces battery life. Over time it can also lead to overheating resulting in an unsafe battery. For those reasons, virtually all properly designed charging circuits for Li-ion batteries are set up to let the battery sit at full charge for the shortest time possible.
Vann's quote from the kernel thread proves my point, what it appears they are trying to do is hold the battery fully charged while it is on the charger. That might increase the amount of time you can run your phone in the short run. But in the long run it will kill the battery.
I suggest you guys RELAX and try to stick with the responsibility of handling your phone the easiest way possible. Being not the hardest way to learn, but you eventually find the way to start new each time you look at your phone. Just saying kinda like when I have my EVO, It is just peachy to have. I don't want to tear the skin or even puncture the screen. LOL Like a PEACH?
I'm imaginative today and well, I always try to keep my phone in cool conditions, for short say. I use Juice Defender with Ultimate Juice with a good nice kernel and ROM that suits it as it suits.
alekosy said:
I suggest you guys RELAX and try to stick with the responsibility of handling your phone the easiest way possible. Being not the hardest way to learn, but you eventually find the way to start new each time you look at your phone. Just saying kinda like when I have my EVO, It is just peachy to have. I don't want to tear the skin or even puncture the screen. LOL Like a PEACH?
I'm imaginative today and well, I always try to keep my phone in cool conditions, for short say. I use Juice Defender with Ultimate Juice with a good nice kernel and ROM that suits it as it suits.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wtf.........?
Well its just like rooting and flashing custom roms, it may do this it may do that. If its such a concern don't use it. I'm using it and my phone doesn't take 7 hours to charge and it doesn't overheat at all, its a risk I am taking and I don't hold the developer responsible for it if something goes wrong. I understand the concern about this and I'm sure he will add a disclaimer.
wow and i was just starting to appreciate the new kernels. thanks for ruining it for me guys...
haha no i guess thanks for saving me....
dkdude36 said:
wow and i was just starting to appreciate the new kernels. thanks for ruining it for me guys...
haha no i guess thanks for saving me....
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Agreeeeeeeeeed!
wfrandy said:
Yep, trickle charging is bad for the battery. Rememebr when all those laptop batteries were catching on fire? Same thing could potentially happen if your battery is not charged properly. They charge the batteries the way they do for a reason. That reason is relatively long battery life and safety.
Here is a good article on the subject.
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Click to collapse
This article is confusing because it says 2 different things:
1. The current "trickle charging" kernels are safe but we should be calling them "topping off" instead:
Full charge is attained after the voltage threshold has been reached and the current has dropped to 3% of the rated current or has leveled off.
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Click to collapse
The kernels drop to 0mA at 4.20V, so the voltage threshold is reached and the current safely drops.
2. The kernel is not safe because it keeps the battery at 4.20V/cell continuously:
No trickle charge is applied because lithium-ion is unable to absorb overcharge. A continuous trickle charge above 4.05V/cell would causes plating of metallic lithium that could lead to instabilities and compromise safety. Instead, a brief topping charge is provided to compensate for the small self-discharge the battery and its protective circuit consume. Depending on the battery, a topping charge may be repeated once every 20 days.
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Click to collapse
What am I missing?
guys... this is from the article put up:
When charging above 4.30V, the cell causes plating of metallic lithium on the anode; the cathode material becomes an oxidizing agent, loses stability and releases oxygen. Overcharging causes the cell to heat up. If left unattended, the cell could vent with flame.
The "trickle charge" kernels never go near 4.30v, mine stops at 4.19. Also, the temperature during the "trickle" overnight is very low. after 8 hours of "trickling" my battery was at 30 degrees C. Only time will tell if the battery life is SLIGHTLY shortened from this charging, but it is in NO WAY NEAR exploding, catching fire, blah blah blah. Stop scaring people, read the articles you post yourself and actually look at what is going on in these kernels. You may surprise yourself!
Now, if you cant get a replacement battery because you live on the moon and want your battery life to stay 3 years instead of 2 1/2, then it is your choice to not use these kernels, but dont scare others away just because you don't want to partake.
aph said:
This article is confusing because it says 2 different things:
1. The current "trickle charging" kernels are safe but we should be calling them "topping off" instead:
The kernels drop to 0mA at 4.20V, so the voltage threshold is reached and the current safely drops.
2. The kernel is not safe because it keeps the battery at 4.20V/cell continuously:
What am I missing?
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Click to collapse
hmsheen10 said:
wtf.........?
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Jfree3000 said:
Well its just like rooting and flashing custom roms, it may do this it may do that. If its such a concern don't use it. I'm using it and my phone doesn't take 7 hours to charge and it doesn't overheat at all, its a risk I am taking and I don't hold the developer responsible for it if something goes wrong. I understand the concern about this and I'm sure he will add a disclaimer.
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Click to collapse
dkdude36 said:
wow and i was just starting to appreciate the new kernels. thanks for ruining it for me guys...
haha no i guess thanks for saving me....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmsheen10 said:
Agreeeeeeeeeed!
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Click to collapse
LOL I don't know, but battery trickling isn't good to be heard to deal nicely with these EVOs, but If you wanna try to give it a run or a test on your own, be prepared that you voided your warranty.
alekosy said:
LOL I don't know, but battery trickling isn't good to be heard to deal nicely with these EVOs, but If you wanna try to give it a run or a test on your own, be prepared that you voided your warranty.
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Click to collapse
Your warranty was void as soon as you were able to flash a kernel... seriously... (I still have had a screen replaced from separating though!)
Look! A brand new battery for your EVO for $2.92 shipped!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/1500-mAh-HTC-Ex...ccessories&hash=item4aa608f2c7#ht_3246wt_1198
I guess I don't care if I have to replace them... just as long as they last an extra couple of hours everyday...
You all know that there is NO WAY it can hurt the actual phone, right???
sd2649 said:
Your warranty was void as soon as you were able to flash a kernel... seriously... (I still have had a screen replaced from separating though!)
Look! A brand new battery for your EVO for $2.92 shipped!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/1500-mAh-HTC-Ex...ccessories&hash=item4aa608f2c7#ht_3246wt_1198
I guess I don't care if I have to replace them... just as long as they last an extra couple of hours everyday...
You all know that there is NO WAY it can hurt the actual phone, right???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And try JuiceDefender with UltimateJuice, the 2nd app is a small fee paid app for donation, but it's very useful with the right kernel and rom for your liking. Trust on that, I think everyone would probably agree that this way would be the safest legit way.

Need battery advice!! -g2

Can someone please give me some advice on what to do with my battery! Only been on for about 7 hours and I'm already at 34%!! Well 33 as of now.. This is NOT normal! Only talked for about an hour total today! I always have wifi on because I don't have a data plan! -Medium usage.
-pics enclosed!
-system info/rom/kernel info!
-please help!! Thanks!
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
Some advice I can shed on this is having Wifi on all the time, (by all the time you mean at least 24/7), that could be a strong point why your battery life is low. Another thing is the number of apps that require data being pulled running in the background
1. Having Wifi on for the time you state is bad if you don't have a signal. Reason why is that since there is no signal for your Wifi to obtain it will continue to search and fail, search and fail which actually drains some good amount of battery being forced to repeat such a task unlike when having a steady signal it's usage becomes minimal
2. High number of data pulling apps also works the same except then have the option to change the time they pull data which can be usually found under settings/options tab
Try these out and let us know how it goes =]
xArcane1x said:
Some advice I can shed on this is having Wifi on all the time, (by all the time you mean at least 24/7), that could be a strong point why your battery life is low. Another thing is the number of apps that require data being pulled running in the background
1. Having Wifi on for the time you state is bad if you don't have a signal. Reason why is that since there is no signal for your Wifi to obtain it will continue to search and fail, search and fail which actually drains some good amount of battery being forced to repeat such a task unlike when having a steady signal it's usage becomes minimal
2. High number of data pulling apps also works the same except then have the option to change the time they pull data which can be usually found under settings/options tab
Try these out and let us know how it goes =]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info
When I have wifi on, I am always somewhere where I have wifi. I do leave it on while driving, but that's no more that a few minutes until it reconnects.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
Hmmmmm
I barely noticed that you are running a custom rom. After flashing the new rom did you wipe battery stats? If not, that can actually affect battery life as all roms run differently and different data is applied to the battery stat
There are two ways to go about wiping the stats. You can boot into recovery and Wipe Dalvik Cache under the advanced settings or you can download Battery Calibration from the marketplace which in my experience is a lot easier
Battery Calibration
The instructions are inside the app on how to implement the process
I had this rom for a while but when I flashed it, I did not wipe data or anything. I decided to wipe data to give it a try and reflashed it. I charged it completely and calibrated it. I am in the process of running the battery until it dies so I can recharge it to complete the calibration process.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
Be sure to post back your results and hopefully if nothing has improved I'll try again to assist you =]
Ran it last night untill it was dead and let it charge throughout the night. Testing battery life now! Will post results when at 8 hours. Would post at 7 again but I am gooing on a college visit today and won't be using it then.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
DroidCell said:
Ran it last night untill it was dead and let it charge throughout the night. Testing battery life now! Will post results when at 8 hours. Would post at 7 again but I am gooing on a college visit today and won't be using it then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DO NOT drain the battery until it dies!!! Just down to 15-20%, then charge to full, repeat a couple times. Over-discharge is not good for Li ion batteries.
People on here keep recommending it, or saying they do it. Its NOT a good idea, and proliferating this bad advice needs to stop. Draining the battery to dead is bad for the life of the battery. Also over-discharge can possibly render the battery unable to take a charge, requiring you to buy a new battery. It doesn't happen often, but its happened to a few different people on this phone, and other phones as well.
redpoint73 said:
DO NOT drain the battery until it dies!!! Just down to 15-20%, then charge to full, repeat a couple times. Over-discharge is not good for Li ion batteries.
People on here keep recommending it, or saying they do it. Its NOT a good idea, and proliferating this bad advice needs to stop. Draining the battery to dead is bad for the life of the battery. Also over-discharge can possibly render the battery unable to take a charge, requiring you to buy a new battery. It doesn't happen often, but its happened to a few different people on this phone, and other phones as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You seem to know a lot so i'm gonna ask ya redpoint. People say there is a built in safety zone so even when the battery is reporting as 0 it really isn't. The batteries do not allow themselves to get below a certain threshold for the reason you are explaining. Is this not true? Lots of people who know nothing of xda or cell phones in general let there phone run the whole way out for whatever reason. I would think that cell/battery manufacturers would take that into consideration.
the reason people used to tell you to drain the battery complete was based on an older battery tech that has what you would call a "memory" it needs to "memorize" it's lowest and highest point in order to calibrate the battery. Li-ions do not need that. They actually keep track of your charge cycles.
suppose it can handle 1000 cycles. on the first day, you used up 75% of your battery and put it on the charger to max. then the next day you use another 75% and do the same thing. at this point what actually happens is that the battery will count this as 1.5 cycles rather than 2 cycles. But redpoint is right.
Do NOT drain the battery completely when it's a Li-ion battery. it's old advice for old tech battery that is legit for that type of battery but not Li-ion batteries.
To calibrate your battery, you just use your phone normally. It will figure out where it is supposed to be as you use and charge it over the course of a few days.
better battery life
Notice on the graph, the screen was not on for a while though...
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
xsteven77x said:
You seem to know a lot so i'm gonna ask ya redpoint. People say there is a built in safety zone so even when the battery is reporting as 0 it really isn't. The batteries do not allow themselves to get below a certain threshold for the reason you are explaining. Is this not true? Lots of people who know nothing of xda or cell phones in general let there phone run the whole way out for whatever reason. I would think that cell/battery manufacturers would take that into consideration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is true that there is a built in 'safety zone' so that the battery does not drain completely to zero.
However, it is also true that this 'safety zone' can and HAS failed for some users (including some who are on these forums)
With the way that Li-Ion batteries work, and 'calibrate', there is no added benefit to draining it completely to zero. If there is no benefit, then the risk is not worth it.
DroidCell said:
Can someone please give me some advice on what to do with my battery! Only been on for about 7 hours and I'm already at 34%!! Well 33 as of now.. This is NOT normal! Only talked for about an hour total today! I always have wifi on because I don't have a data plan! -Medium usage.
-pics enclosed!
-system info/rom/kernel info!
-please help!! Thanks!
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These ideas ran through my mind reading your post:
I. You might want to calibrate your battery. I've run into many instruction how to do this (just google the keywords: Desire Z calibrate battery), but basically the ones that do NOT require you to drain your battery to zero first, came down to this:
0. Turn Fastboot OFF!
1. Power on your Desire then connect to your Charger and Fully charge until the LED changes Green.
2. Disconnect your phone from the charger and then power off.
3. Reconnect your phone to your charger with the power off and wait for the green LED.
4. Disconnect the phone from the charger and power it on.
5. Once the phone has fully booted / ready to use ... power off again.
6. With the power off connect the phone to the charger and wait for the green LED.
7. Disconnect from the Charger then power on and use normally.
Many people seem to have greatly increased their battery life just by following those simple steps. I am currently in the process of trying it myself, but will probably need some hours before I can verify if the overall life has significantly increased.
II. You might want to install an App like "Watchdog lite" for a longterm check if you have any apps or processes, that work as a battery eater in the background.
III. if the above tips should fail, you might want to upgrade your radio and maybe also align the radio library (RIL), to match it best with your radio and ROM. But do a lot of reading and research before actually performing that task, since this is nothing for beginners and might even make things worse. This thread might be a good point to start your research.
hope that helps,
Tronar

[Q] q: what is a proper charging cycle?

I have been searching as to what is the proper way to cycle charge so I can get the best battery life after installing new kernel and ROM.
However I seem to find different answers
One to drain in completely others say don't?
What do I do?
Unless someone links you to a peer reviewed research paper, you will be reading random anecdotes.
proud a-clown said:
Unless someone links you to a peer reviewed research paper, you will be reading random anecdotes.
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Click to collapse
I wouldn't consider the manufacturer's suggested charging cycles to be "random anecdotes" even if they're not published in a peer reviewed journal.
"Completely draining" should not be practiced on a regular basis with lithium ion. You can't (or shouldn't be able to) reach an actual complete drain before the phone shuts down. If you could (or ever do) the battery would become useless to you as there is a point of low discharge where lithium ions can no longer be charged by a standard charger.
And while most of the time the shut down of the phone and the subsequent charger connection happens before this point - there have been plenty of people who have let their phones go till they shut down then go to charge their battery only to find it will no longer charge.
So every time there is a drain of your battery to the point your phone shuts off you get real close to that point where you will no longer be able to charge that battery (unless your one of those techno chemist electrical engineer types with all the appropriate tools and materials handy).
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using XDA Premium HD app
http://www.dansdata.com/gz011.htm
And i know i've read somewhere about someone suggesting that people go through this arduous process of draining the battery to a point, charging it fully, draining it completely, and charging it fully again (or something crazy like that... i don't remember exactly) to make the phone detect the full capacity of the battery and avoid any "memory effect", and i believe that whole idea was even shot down by someone at Google who works on the Android OS as being a complete crock.
I really don't think there is any PROCESS that can be done to give you the optimal battery life, aside from what can be done to prevent apps from draining the battery constantly. Some people recommend having a fully charged battery, or having the phone plugged in when you wipe the phone and install a new ROM... i've rarely done that. I've even wiped and installed roms at like 40% battery life... sometimes a bit lower. But in my experience, battery life has more to do with the ROM being used than what you did to try to MAKE the battery life better.
Running a touchwiz-modded ROM like DrewGaren's Serenity and stuff, i'd generally be lucky to get a full day of battery life seemingly no matter how much or how little i used the phone. I'm not what i'd consider a heavy user.... haven't really used my phone much all day today, though it did spend a good portion of the day on the charger. But i'm running the latest build of Task & Ktoonsez AOKP ROM, and it's been on battery for 9.75 hours and is still at 85%... but that's only with 20 minutes of screen time.
Anyway.... all i can say is from my own personal experience, but i don't think there is really any definitive process one can follow to improve battery life beyond what the software itself will do anyway.
Whether or not it has any effect on actual battery performance i would say that running a 'full' cycle or two of drain and charge for android to learn the battery capacity. Probably doesn't have much affect on a stock battery but when i purchased my 4400mah battery it took a few cycles to get an accurate reading from the charge meter. It would drain down to the warning in what it was expecting the stock 2100mah to be dying and ran FF3 for atleast 2 hours non stop on 1-5% until the battery actually gave out. On top of that it couln't decided how much it really wanted to say was remaining, it would jump up and down a percent or two, obviously confused of what to do. Whether or not its necessary to run it to this point is debatable, but with android or myself not knowing how much charge was actually left in the battery i did.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=3846897#post3846897
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone.htm

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