Related
hi,
it is commonly known that wm5 compaction problems in hx4700
are due to very slow ROM type which use NOR gates instead NAND.
does anyone here tried to find another ROM chip which could
suit hx4700 and be NAND type?
could it be possible or due to hardware architecture or any software
reason it is hopeless?
ok, i've found this: link
[cut]
Okay, so let's talk about NAND and NOR. These are the two main types of ROM. They're largely used the same way, and everything I've said about ROM is true of both of them. So, for the most part, you don't need to care which kind you've got. But I'll tell you about them anyway.
NOR: Faster to read, slower to write.
NAND: Slower to read, faster to write.
This is all relative. Both are considerably slower than RAM. There's one very important difference in these technologies. NOR lets you do something we call "execute in place" (XIP). Remember what I said before. To run a program, you first load it into RAM, and then you run it from there. NOR lets you run the program directly from the ROM without loading it into RAM first. This means that you can have a system with less RAM. Note that this only works for programs. You can't XIP a picture or an audio file. NAND typically compensates for not being able to XIP with price. (NAND tends to be cheaper.)
Because NAND is faster to write, and NOR is faster to read. The ideal system would have 64M of NOR and 64M of NAND. It would store all the programs in NOR and store all the user data in NAND. Since it would XIP all of the programs, it wouldn't need 64M of RAM and would drop back down to 32M, thus saving power. XIPing also means faster application load times, since you don't have to load the program into RAM before running it. A device like that would rock.
[cut]
and as i remember XIP has sth to do with cooking. does it means that change of ROM from NOR to NAND would require to patch XIP or do
some engineering on bootloader/kernel/whatever?
regards
piotr
dzebrys said:
(...) does anyone here tried to find another ROM chip which could
suit hx4700 and be NAND type? (...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Peter, do you have a bug in my house? Today I told my wife if someone to think up a chip you talk about then it will be bought by thousands of hx4700's users
[Update]
The explanation is in the answer of Mike Calligaro (Microsoft's guy):
"As for having a single image for both the x50v and the x51v. If one has NAND and the other NOR, that won't work. The filesystem drivers need to be different for NAND and NOR devices, so an image for one won't work on the other."
So we can forget it. Unless someone will write a proper drivers which would be miracle equal
regards
piotr
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Regards,
Piotr
Ps. Are you another Peter or it is me, Mr. Hide? - Hehehe.
what about disconchip
Umpal said:
The explanation is in the answer of Mike Calligaro (Microsoft's guy):
"As for having a single image for both the x50v and the x51v. If one has NAND and the other NOR, that won't work. The filesystem drivers need to be different for NAND and NOR devices, so an image for one won't work on the other."
So we can forget it. Unless someone will write a proper drivers which would be miracle equal
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
further in comments there is also sth like:
"Most of WM5 smartphones now use diskonchip as ROM. However, diskonchip is actually a NAND-based flash memory with NOR-like interface."
now i have my board at RAM upgrade. the donor is mb from qtec 9090.
as i remember there is diskonchip ROM. at hx4700 there is 198MB of ROM
and it is formed by 2 intel's chips. maybe it's worth of digging...
/piotr
The real killer for NOR flash devices is the erase time - the relative read and write times are not really significant.
According the Mike Calligaro blogs neither the hx4700 or the X50V was doing XIP in WM5 as this requires Intel Storage Manager which he claimed was not present.
His analysis was the block size was larger than the MS recommendation. The erase time is crucial as flash has no rewrite function so if a block is changed it is written to a new block and the old block marked for erasure. The erase operation prevents access to the memory for the time of the erase.
The smaller block size means that the filesys thread needs to run (especially "emergency" runs when spare blocks get critically short).
In his analysis he never said that there was any good reason why WM5 devices should not use NOR flash.
And everyone tends to assume that filesys does not exist on NAND flash devices - it does but the erase operations are faster.
I have probably a stupid question, but I ask it.
I would like to know if it is possible to upgrade a pda without flashing ? why it is not enough to install a big cab and load registry ?
I know most of the pda have just 64 Mb memory. and often the rom is 64 Mb, so if we do like that at the end we will have no memory.
But O2 XDA Flame has 2 Gb of memory. so 64 Mb is nothing and I can spend it, if that allows me to upgrade it without the need to cook a rom with complex tools, to find how to be in bootloader, and without the ask to brick it.
Stupid question ?
I can't imagine that no one knows concerning my question in xda- devs.
Not so stupid question. But the answer is simple - because the bootloader was designed in such a way it can only load the OS from its special partition in a special manner.
There are some ways to boot from specially formatted SD, but thats all.
and a cab file is a pocketpc install file
a pocketpc install file cant change the os
because it would mean that the installed things
had to update the system which was running it
think sawing over the branch you are sitting on in the tree
Theoretically, you could overwrite all the non-system files (or at least the ones not needed for initiating the boot) with all the new files and overwrite the hv registry files... but I wonder how well this would work... And how fast it would be if you're not using modules but instead just files... and you couldn't really update it to WM6...
Thanks to all of you.
When I have asked the question, we where not able to flash the Flame. Now we are.
So know I am in the process to port wm6 on the Flame.
I have extracted the xip of the Flame using xipport.
And I have also extracted the xip of the WM6 port to Universal of ranju.
Now I am in the process of merging the 2 xip.
If somebody can give me some advices, I will be glad.
Ranju has started. But I need more info in the process of mixing.
I tried to upgrade my dopod 900 this morning from WM5 to WM6.1 using a file i downloaded here at xda. Looks like i got things wrong. After following screen instructions, and finally clicking on the FINISH button, my dopod's screen says Not For G4... I tried to hard reset, etc... But to no avail. This is my first time to do an upgrade..... What do i do now ? Could i still fix my dopod?
Welcome to forums
You have to flash a ROM what is compatible with G4 Universal
Have a look on my signature to select one.
Good luck,
thanx orb...
i also read and did the Mamaich method in the sticky... afterwards i got more confident flashing my rom knowing i cud still bring it to life again. hehe
i'll check other rom's and post some comments from a newbie's point of view...thanx! am learning........
No prob mate
We all were noobs sometime
Hi! I am new here. I have the same unit (Dopod 900). It runs in wm5. My question is can I Flash it from wm5 to wm6.5? Thanks!
Welcome to forums
Yes you can, just go to my signature link and follow instructions on how to upgrade your ROM, you can go to WM 6, 6.1 or even 6.5
Here is my device info:
RAM size: 64 MB
Flash size 128 MB
Flash Chip type: G3
Data bus: 32 bits
It is my first time flashing a device. So I am digging all the info available. But I must admit I need help for I don't understand most of the terms and the things needed to be done in order to flash succesfully.
For instance, do I need to update my activesync before getting unto the procedure? Or are there any one who can give me a link for the instructions for newb. Thanks!
Uni 64 Mb - upgrading from MW5 to ???, only looking for more available memory
Hi all,
yep, still happy with my 2006 model Jasjar . Hard to resist a good offer on a used HD2, but am sticking to my Uni !!
As you can see in my signature I am still running the factory ROM. The only thing that I have been missing so far is push email and the security tools that come with that like remote erase etc... . But that was something I could live without.
I am pretty pleased with the software I am running. Only iGo8 is very demanding and freezes when things get to rough. But other then that, happy. Until recently. I installed SPB shell to get a more updated look and feel, and a few new apps that have fingerstyle and scrolling/flipping effects. Now I see my Uni is getting memory problems. With no apps open, only SPB shell running I have :
Storage: Total 43,50, in use: 36,34, Free: 7.16
Program: Total 50,16, in use: 39,71, Free 10:45
I have cleaned out my phone to the max to free Storage. Deleted all sms'es, and moved all pictures and videos to the SD card. Ran 2 programs to free up memory.
Program memory is decreasing to 6 or 7 when launching f.ex. youtubeplay, SPB TV, Opera, or any type of graphics game.
Conclusion is that I like the look and feel of my Uni, but it looks like I need more memory. I could upgrade from 64 to 128, but that is something I consider as a last way out. That is, if I can find a new OS that frees up enough memory on both Storage and Program. I found soem comments on WM6.1 where some say this is the best solution when all you need is more memory. But if true, how much improvement can this bring? Or are there any basic WM6.5 images out there that suite my needs better then WM6.1?
I have been reading about some of the 6.5 ROMs, and it looks like there are still all with a certain risk of failure at a certain point. My curent ROM is working great, no hick ups. so I would like to keep it that way ;-). Please your opinion.
I did some reading up on how to flash. As it is said, I need to have a copy of my ROM with WM5 in case things go wrong. But I have no idea where to find a copy of my working ROM. But I found some info on making a dums:
http://buzzdev.org/how-to/universal-how-to-d2s-dump-the-rom/
Is this what I am looking for? Does this meanthat if I dump the files on my SD, I'm good?
Looking forward to start flashing! I hope somebody can help me getting started. I guess I first need to clarify the ROM backup. Then I need to make sure I know what NOT to do to avoid bricking my Uni, and last but not least, have a working routing to flash back to my old ROM.
Maybe a few more question for now:
- If I flash to a new ROM, do I need to reïnstall all data, contacts, programs etc?
- Are the Scandinavian letters/alphabet included in all new ROMs?
- Not sure if this is a WM5 limitation, but before I had a 2 Gb SD, and could store my pictures directly on SD, as default location in my camera app. But after upgrading to a 16Gb, this is not working (ironicly "not enough memory"). Looks like the camera app is not supporting 16 Gb. Have been reading about a 4 Gb limitation. Will this be better in newer ROMs?
If you want performance and free RAM try going to WM6.1 (I recommend Tomal 8.2 and 8.5), WM6.5 is not causing problems at least for me but is indeed slower than 6.1
- Yes, you need to reinstall all
- Not all, try checking my sig link and read the thread of the desired ROM
- Again, check my sig link to get working SD cards
HarryTheSatman said:
- If I flash to a new ROM, do I need to reïnstall all data, contacts, programs etc?
- Are the Scandinavian letters/alphabet included in all new ROMs?
- Not sure if this is a WM5 limitation, but before I had a 2 Gb SD, and could store my pictures directly on SD, as default location in my camera app. But after upgrading to a 16Gb, this is not working (ironicly "not enough memory"). Looks like the camera app is not supporting 16 Gb. Have been reading about a 4 Gb limitation. Will this be better in newer ROMs?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@orb3000
I have been reading the thread from Things 6.1 ROM. Looks like I am going to give that one a try. To start with anyway.
About my data. SPB backup has a backup of PIM data, emails and documents. I assume I can use the exe file to restore that after I upgraded the ROM, yes?
about the SD card. I think you misunderstood ;-). My 16 Gb is working, no prob. It is only the camera app that does not want to store it there. If I change the path to my SD, I get a memory error. But I can install apps on it, store data on it, transfer data from my PC to it etc. So most likely itis the camera app, that is from 2006 or earlier, that is not capable on dealing with 16 Gb cards. Just wanted to check if somebody else has the same problem.
Thanks for the reply. I will do some reading on the howto ROM section. Just need to figure out how to get a restorable copy of my current ROM, just in case.
Until Now, I'm still afraid to flash my Dopod 900
Hi! Guys it's been quite a while since I read and read about how to flash my device but until now, I can't find the courage to do so.
Is there someone who can tell me that it is ok to flash my dopod 900?
It is ok to do it!
I flashed my Uni one week after I got it back in 2005 and since then have flashed so many times that I´ve lost count, as long as you follow the instructions all should be ok.
On my sig link there is a good tut on how to
Don´t be afraid! you´ll see the goodness of having a cooked ROM from our great Chefs i XDA
Hello,
I need some help. Install its Android OS, but after he reset my Kaiser again charged WinMo OS. My question is whether it is possible to choose which OS to load first or with any program or edit the file to indicate to launch the first Android.
Sorry for my bad english :S Use Google translator
If you have installed Android to SD card and use Haret.exe then it will always reboot to WM.
You must install to nand if you wish to boot to Android only, which will wipe WM totally and replace it with Android.
The guide stickied at the top of the forum is a good tutorial in doing this
That does bring a good point to my mind though, we could create an exe that loads at startup of wm to auto load haret and startup if the user doesn't cancel in so many seconds (like grub). I keep WM on my phone so I can easily change my droid version and also I know everything works including opening office files (actually that's the biggest sticking point for me keeping it).
Thanks for support. Today I try to flash via NAND method.
Kind Regards
Lybomir
I flash my Kaiser with latest zImage-2.6.32-froyo-09-09-10_21 from here http://it029000.massey.ac.nz/vogue/files/?C=M;O=D and my device loading Android OS very slow, and big problem is : Phone go in screensaver and I try to unlock and screeen stay only in white light, no picture, no widgets... total block. Only solution is it a use Soft reset button or remove batery
Maybe you choose the wrong panel type?
I can read in your signature Duo Boot so I guess you installed onto the SD and use Haret to run Android.
If so, you have to edit the default.txt file locate in ANDBOOT folder and modify the value following htckaiser.panel_type.
You can specify 1, 2 or 3 (most Kaisers use panel type 2)
Wrong panel type may lead to awake problems or wrong colors...
The excessive slowness may be due to a slow SD. Which class is it? Use at least class 4 SD.
---- EDIT -----
In case you already flashed to NAND, to change the panel type you have to choose the right kernel (the kaisimg file) or you can edit the one you flashed following instructions and links you can find in #4 at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=680518
obviously you have to reflash the kaisimg.nbh but you don't need to flash Android again
I try with 1,2 and 3 but every time show me a this problem, and now i run HaRET and in 2 from 3 times phone block and not response only Soft reset work, and if case phone load complete Android and again in screen seaver system not respond... ;(
I flash my phone with ext2 partition on my sd card/ class 4 8 GB SDHC/ and try with system and data on sdcard an again freez white screen/
Sorry for my bad english
dlink.bg said:
I try with 1,2 and 3 but every time show me a this problem, and now i run HaRET and in 2 from 3 times phone block and not response only Soft reset work, and if case phone load complete Android and again in screen seaver system not respond... ;(
I flash my phone with ext2 partition on my sd card/ class 4 8 GB SDHC/ and try with system and data on sdcard an again freez white screen/
Sorry for my bad english
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
May you try to install a different build and see if you fall into the same problem?
BTW, just after installing, don't start playing soon with the device: initially skip all settings (touch the android, don't set google account and so on) and leave the phone quiet for at least 10-15 minutes: some builds need to copy file to the cache and playing with the device may interfere with this operation leading to unpredictable effects...
Let we know...
It is slow because you installed it on sdcard.. both partition.. if you are on nand. Try install both partition on nand partition.. and try hawks soad rls 3 as me.. its fastest build for kaiser.. and I haven't ever problem with white screen ata awake.. try it in that haws soad ion build.. you can finf it in that forun.. just find it
Sent from my HTC Kaiser Ion using XDA App
I find a solution! Later I post how find solution
Thanks on every in this thread to help me!
dlink.bg said:
I find a solution! Later I post how find solution
Thanks on every in this thread to help me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're welcome
And I'm waiting to know
Don't suppose any of you have actually seen this thread?
Gen.Y DualBOOT v1.0.6.0
Should work fine on Kaiser, certainly works fine on other devices, such as Diamond, Blackstone etc
zenity said:
Don't suppose any of you have actually seen this thread?
Gen.Y DualBOOT v1.0.6.0
Should work fine on Kaiser, certainly works fine on other devices, such as Diamond, Blackstone etc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Zenity... Yes, know that piece of software.
But as You have to boot WinMo (Yes, I Know, not all the services need to be running but system must be loaded and started, GUI must be running and so on) in order to DualBOOT can start, I can guess it's only a partial time-save... isn't it? Did You tried it?
Have not tried it on my Kaiser, since it is Nand flashed, but I think it is what was being asked for really, a way to boot either WM, or straight into Android on SD.
I don't think it will ever be possible for both WM and Android to co-exist on nand, since there simply is not enough room on the internal memory for both.
It is a time saver on other devices I have tried it on, Diamond, Blackstone, however since neither of these devices is nand-flashable this is more what Gen-Y's dual boot was intended for.
If it was possible to run WM from SD then we might be able to truly Dual Boot, in a similar fashion to Windows/Linux on PC, but as far as I know this is not possible either.
zenity said:
Have not tried it on my Kaiser, since it is Nand flashed, but I think it is what was being asked for really, a way to boot either WM, or straight into Android on SD.
I don't think it will ever be possible for both WM and Android to co-exist on nand, since there simply is not enough room on the internal memory for both.
It is a time saver on other devices I have tried it on, Diamond, Blackstone, however since neither of these devices is nand-flashable this is more what Gen-Y's dual boot was intended for.
If it was possible to run WM from SD then we might be able to truly Dual Boot, in a similar fashion to Windows/Linux on PC, but as far as I know this is not possible either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, of course we haven't enough NAND to have both OSes!!!
What I was thinking to (but I'm a lot far to inspect WinMo booting sequence...) is if may be possible to wedge a sort of bootloader running BEFORE the OS loads or in the early booting process and letting we choose to boot WinMo (in NAND) of Android (on SD).
At present moment I've Android running from SD but kernel NANDed (I've got problems running out of NAND and no time to solve them so I'm using the solid build previously installed on SD) so Kaiser boots quickly... and this confirms it's possible boot SD Android without having to load WinMo or Haret. The more relevant matter I can see is that we have to find a way to wedge the bootloader without have to manual modify the WinMo ROM (virtualization is far from be considered on such devices...)
I suppose this is just a "mind exercise" (Sorry, I don't know how to correctly translate an Italian common saying...
Mind exercise describes it perfectly
Not sure why you would run out of space on nand, unless you are loading a lot of apps, and there are ways to run android that may help with that, such as apps2sd, or data on SD partition.
If you must have WM then your only choice would be using Haret.exe, and the most efficient way to dual boot we have at the moment is the Gen-Y solution, which is not ideal, but does offer at least part of what you seek.
The Android bootloader we use (tinboot.s) is not flexible enough to allow dual booting, but may have some information that may be of some use in this
tinboot thread
See what you think anyway
Sorry, I was not able to be clear... I apologize for my English...
When I said "I've got problems running out of NAND" I intended to say "I've got problems - very bad performances - when Android was running from NAND"!!!
Maybe we are a bit OT...
BTW, I was far from software developing for a long while and never developed low level software for Linux/Unix... but in the past I messed up with Z80, 65xx, 68K and x86 platforms's assembly
Recently I need to approach software developing again (but at a really different level...)
I'd like to have spare time to start again, as this world attracts me more. Maybe I'll give it a chance...
Let me understand... tinboot is actually used bootloader?
BTW, just to be clear... I don't need WinMo and I'm giving Android a chance to revive my Kaiser. I'm looking for a fast and stable build and actually I'm running VaniljEclair RLS11 (Yes, I know, I'd try your Polymod 2.1D build... )
Tinboot is the bootloader we use to get android in nand, not being a coder my understanding in limited, however I did think that thread may have useful information for anyone interested in the low level workings of out devices.
I assumed you meant running out of space on nand, lol, i see now what you mean, no need to apologise for you english, it's fine
zenity said:
--- CUT ----
however I did think that thread may have useful information for anyone interested in the low level workings of out devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you're right... it's a useful starting point and I'll read it accurately...
Unluckly, I need a lot of spare time (and I don't, at present) to build a solid knowledge base and to start developing for Android.
yes there should be plenty of room for both oses on Nand, I still have over 90 mb on my wm6.5 nand install with come extra apps in there. So if you stripped down both oses you could easily fit them both on nand and still some space left. But then you need to have a boot loader that will be able to load both oses. I think I heard someone say somewhere they are using grub to boot android from nand, that can boot windows also with the right configuration, that would be where to start.
Is it possible to install Android on Kaiser without SD? Has anyone investigated bundling the /system partition with tinboot so the whole thing is installed with a single KAISIMG?
I ask because I have one Kaiser whose SD reader is broken. If I could install more than a kernel, I could try risky changes to fix the NAND driver. If I brick the phone or kill its flash, it's no big loss.
No, you can't do it now, maybe i can suggest you to look after a method do dump the nand after install and use it as kaiser image
Exactly what I was thinking, but how to negotiate the NAND into the proper size partitions? Write kernel for rom and hope you get the sizes right, or make a kernel that readjusts /system size based on install and leave remainder for /data?
PoXFreak said:
Exactly what I was thinking, but how to negotiate the NAND into the proper size partitions? Write kernel for rom and hope you get the sizes right, or make a kernel that readjusts /system size based on install and leave remainder for /data?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think thats l1q1d idea... perhaps a complete nand dump, and reflash it to another kaiser.
The kernel and partitions must be configures before the dump...
I do intend to try, but have been distracted by Scoot's very stable kernel, and a very nice pre-beta that I'm testing on my HTC Wizards, Gandalf and Radagast.
This is possible, in fact there was a time where an empty img file was being incorporated into the NBH where on a windows NBH the system files would normally be copied. A windows NBH consists of a number of parts, I can't remember what they are all called right now, but they can all be merged using NBHmerge. I can't give you specific instructions but there's no reason why it can't be done, not sure it'll be much fun though!
n2rjt said:
I do intend to try, but have been distracted by Scoot's very stable kernel, and a very nice pre-beta that I'm testing on my HTC Wizards, Gandalf and Radagast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
pre-beta that you're testing on HTC What ??
daedric said:
pre-beta that you're testing on HTC What ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC Wizard. I have two of them, which I have named Radagast and Gandalf. It's my all-time favorite smartphone, although it is obviously even more obsolete than the Kaiser. I use one of them as my primary phone whenever Android is giving me fits. Right now I'm testing H3r7 beta 2 preview where the cook has adeptly squeezed WM6.5 into a tiny, fast, stable package.
If I knew that I wouldn't have given my Wizard away...
I thought Ham3r was finished when he hit 6.1 but I stand corrected...pfft.
help androidinstall.tgz
please share for me : file androidinstall.tgz 2.1 or 2.2 but must run wifi and 3G.
Send for me by: [email protected] thanks i come from VietNam
I think with the proper memory map Android could be installed via FrankenKaiser or something of that sort. Something that addresses the NAND directly through OEMSBL, bypassing the need for a HardSPL. Of course the phone would have to be CID unlocked to do this, but I think it's possible to install via CustomRUU if the mapping was done beforehand.
I have read somewhere that NAND marked as bad in the map still gets "written" to, meaning whatever is supposed to go there is put there and never read. Once unmarked the written info comes back, but that requires a full format anyway.
I say very possible...
I have stopped trying to do this, but wanted to record my latest thoughts in case someone reads this in the future.
I think the best way to install Android on a Kaiser that can't read its sdcard is to edit the initrd then use recovery mode:
* install adbd so it gets started in recovery mode
* allow the menu when sdcard is not installed
* change scripts to look for /data/andboot
* change recovery mode to mount /data partition to usb
Then, of course, you boot the kernel, use the menu, enter recovery mode, transfer androidinstall.tgz and androidupdate.tgz to /data/andboot, then install system, install updates, clear data, and run. If something doesn't work, adb shell or adb push can help.
I think it's too much work to be worth it on this old phone.