Related
Seeing as WP7 will be almost as crippled as the iPhone, let's see ways in which it will be better, besides replaceable battery and memory card(and it's not certain every OEM will follow up on those either). So far it has two weaknesses that only the iPhone has: Lack of multitasking and apps must go through the marketplace.
In order to pick up iPhone users it will have to offer some advantage that the average iPhoner will notice.
Some advantages:
Information at a glance a la today screen with the hubs. iPhone has nothing like this.
It will (supposedly) have some degree of multitasking.
Two more hardware buttons.
Its funny since I've had my HD2 I've not really used multitasking and when I had my iPhone only not being able to use Spotify in the background bugged me so maybe certainly for me multitasking isn't a be all and end all.
Having read lots of stuff about WP7S, the conclusion I have come to is this...
There will be two types of apps
1. Apps with no need to run in the background
2. Apps that do need to run in the background
Examples of type 1 are games, spreadsheets and word processors.
Examples of type 2 are IM apps like palringo, and music streaming services such as pandora.
What will happen is that when you develop an app, by default it will not have the rights to use the background APIs. In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Type 1 apps will simply pause when the user switches away from them. They will remain in memory but will be unable to execute any code until the user switches back to them, whence they will resume execution. This will ensure the app cannot hog any CPU and cause the UI to stutter or slow down. This is definitely a good thing.
Type 2 apps are given access to particular APIs to allow them to, for instance, download updates or postings on IM systems. This will be strictly controlled and priority will always be given to the UI, again to ensure it remains smooth and responsive.
That's my take on what's going to happen, and we'll see if I'm right at MIX 2010 next month.
So your answer is - yes it will multitask but only when it is truly needed. Which to me is the best of both worlds. It will ensure a smooth user experience whilst still allowing background operations.
Jim Coleman said:
In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lets hope theyre not too stingy with giving out access to these API's!
The hubs/services (I'm not sure what MS is calling these) system looks good; getting new relative options available on multiple hubs just from installing a single app (like they demo'd with Facebook) should make all the apps work together much better than on an iPhone. I already want to try to make one to generate a music playlist based on past plays, and another to find lyrics to the currently playing song; If I understand the system properly, these would automatically integrate into any 3rd party apps using the appropriate media API's.
Also the context-sensitive search looks to be awesome.
One disadvantage: possible lack of native code execution and probably no OpenGL support - making it harder for iPhone app developers to port their existing apps to Windows Phone.
weesals said:
One disadvantage: possible lack of native code execution and probably no OpenGL support - making it harder for iPhone app developers to port their existing apps to Windows Phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why the heck should iPhone devs have an easy migration to WP7 if WM 6 devs don't?
weesals said:
Lets hope theyre not too stingy with giving out access to these API's!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The impression I'm getting so far is that they will be very stingy indeed. The only people who will ever get access to non-standard API's will be phone manufacturers and networks, and even they usually won't get access to the native API's most of the time. Microsoft will not publish any documentation about native API's. To get access to them the manufacturers will have to apply to Microsoft on a case by case basis. If Microsoft judges that a native API is required (and if there actually is one that might help) then only at that point will they release any information, and a condition of this is that they will vet the resulting piece of software to verify that the native API is being used correctly, and forbid the release of the software if it isn't.
What we don't know yet is where multi-tasking sits within all this. Is it a standard managed API, an extended managed API, or a native API?
why must every phone be compared to an iphone...personally I never liked the iphone, never will...only good thing about iphone is the apps..otherwise it sucks..and high end smartphones should not be compared to it!
The only thing I like about iPhone is how I use the virtual keyboard to type text.
I have tested HD2 and iPhone in a store, and from my own perspective, iPhone is more responsive and accurate compared to HD2.
I hope WP7 can be better than those 2 platforms in this task.
giggles33 said:
why must every phone be compared to an iphone...personally I never liked the iphone, never will...only good thing about iphone is the apps..otherwise it sucks..and high end smartphones should not be compared to it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
gogol said:
The only thing I like about iPhone is how I use the virtual keyboard to type text.
I have tested HD2 and iPhone in a store, and from my own perspective, iPhone is more responsive and accurate compared to HD2.
I hope WP7 can be better than those 2 platforms in this task.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that isnt aways based on the OS or software, but the quality of the touch screen.
Jim Coleman said:
Having read lots of stuff about WP7S, the conclusion I have come to is this...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This definitely seems like the best thing to do for multitasking in WP7.
We are going to need a task manager though...
As for comparing to the iPhone:
-WP7 will be available in different hardware configurations, giving the consumer a choice in the style and capability of their device.
-Xbox integration, which will most likely include Arcade games (ported for playability of touchscreens)
-Better hardware standards
-Not quite as locked down (hopefully)
RAMMANN said:
why the heck should iPhone devs have an easy migration to WP7 if WM 6 devs don't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because that's where the money is.
Seems people are struggling to come up with any, maybe something magical will appear in the next few weeks, although I doubt it, the advantages of WM seem like they will be gone with WP7, people on forums like this and blogs have been asking for a windows mobile iphone [without being an iphone] and it looks like they're going to heed the demand.
The most important advantages are gone.
They've made an exact copy and think it is enough. But it's not. When you try to catch up, you have to be better.
There's almost nothing WP7 is better at. It's an exact copy of iPhone OS with a better UI on top, but lacking the thousands of applications. That's not going to be enough and I really can't think about a reason why consumers and developers would be excited about this.
(and don't get me wrong - I LOVE the UI - it's just not enough)
Free Microsoft Office (Document viewing, creation, downloading, and editing)
Abobe Flash Player 10.1 is coming
File downloads (possibly)
Apps like a Wi-Fi router and file manager will likely come and be allowed
XBOX LIVE! Enough said.
Zune integration and support (I'm a Zune user)
1GHz Snapdragon is the processor minimum (This will lead to awesome apps and games)
WVGA display minimum (You might not care too much about this one, but I've seen the difference, and it's AMAZING!)
Bing search (That's just my preference.)
Contextual search (A handy feature, I suppose.)
There is not an app collection of 100,000 with most of which being totally useless. This means that you"ll be able to find the good apps.
Even if Microsoft won't allow apps like a Wi-Fi router and file manager, all we would need to do would be to get all WinPhone7 users on XDA to install the XNA Game Studio (and possibly the Win Phone7 SDK) and we could simply upload .ccgame files to XDA instead of .cab files.
giggles33 said:
why must every phone be compared to an iphone...personally I never liked the iphone, never will...only good thing about iphone is the apps..otherwise it sucks..and high end smartphones should not be compared to it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know! Why must smartphones always be compared to a simple feature phone! I've tried the iPhone/ iPod touch (3rd generation) at Best Buy stores, and, let's just say, they froze more and gave out more errors in 5 sec. than 5 WinMo devices did combined over the course of 2 hours. The iPhone's keyboard isn't too great either. It's (the errors thing) 100% true.
Jim Coleman said:
There will be two types of apps
1. Apps with no need to run in the background
2. Apps that do need to run in the background
Examples of type 1 are games, spreadsheets and word processors.
Examples of type 2 are IM apps like palringo, and music streaming services such as pandora.
What will happen is that when you develop an app, by default it will not have the rights to use the background APIs. In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Type 1 apps will simply pause when the user switches away from them. They will remain in memory but will be unable to execute any code until the user switches back to them, whence they will resume execution. This will ensure the app cannot hog any CPU and cause the UI to stutter or slow down. This is definitely a good thing.
Type 2 apps are given access to particular APIs to allow them to, for instance, download updates or postings on IM systems. This will be strictly controlled and priority will always be given to the UI, again to ensure it remains smooth and responsive..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the right answer. Anybody who calms down would see that this makes sense. More Apple-like approval process for Type 2, free reign for Type 1
Shasarak said:
The impression I'm getting so far is that they will be very stingy indeed. The only people who will ever get access to non-standard API's will be phone manufacturers and networks, and even they usually won't get access to the native API's most of the time.
What we don't know yet is where multi-tasking sits within all this. Is it a standard managed API, an extended managed API, or a native API?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, you're talking about native vs managed stuff, which is not the same as simply allowing an app to have a background process. True, AT&T and HTC will have to apply to for native API use for stuff relating to making calls, etc, but that was only about OEMS and network operators.
Regular 3rd party guys, of which there are many, will be expected to get a way to do what they need on the device. Pandora we've seen in Music, you can expect apps like Palringo showing up in People
burnblue said:
This is the right answer. Anybody who calms down would see that this makes sense. More Apple-like approval process for Type 2, free reign for Type 1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because it makes sense doesn't mean Microsoft will act like that. In fact, I'm sure they will not.
The mass market will not benefit from every joe having all the API's because it's going make programs that cause glitches/crashes/memory leaks, etc. They are doing what they think is best for mass market and that is make sure things work well on the device and everything is user friendly with the least amount of hiccups possible. So that means more restrictions on us.
^^^ +1
Jim Coleman said:
What will happen is that when you develop an app, by default it will not have the rights to use the background APIs. In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Type 1 apps will simply pause when the user switches away from them. They will remain in memory but will be unable to execute any code until the user switches back to them, whence they will resume execution. This will ensure the app cannot hog any CPU and cause the UI to stutter or slow down. This is definitely a good thing.
Type 2 apps are given access to particular APIs to allow them to, for instance, download updates or postings on IM systems. This will be strictly controlled and priority will always be given to the UI, again to ensure it remains smooth and responsive.
That's my take on what's going to happen, and we'll see if I'm right at MIX 2010 next month.
So your answer is - yes it will multitask but only when it is truly needed. Which to me is the best of both worlds. It will ensure a smooth user experience whilst still allowing background operations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This neither solves problems nor guarantees anything though. Poor code is still poor code. Too many apps running is STILL too many apps running (slows the UI). MS can police neither. So, your #2 solution really makes no sense and has no advantages. MS has no way of predicting who will run what app and when on their phones. What if a user chooses to run several "Type 2" apps? Will you get some sort of error message? Will the MS police arrest you for ruining the UI experience? What happens after several years of approved type 2 apps hitting the market? Now were back to the same problems of WM.
Dude, we're talking about 1Ghz+, 512MB+ RAM phones here! You can run lots of apps without slowing anything down. Really, the "multitasking slows down the UI" argument is utter bull****. A good OS handles multitasking in a way that doesn't slow down anything. Restrictions are only necessary if the OS itself sucks. A good OS doesn't need them.
as my assumption ,OS freeze the application but still allow application to update the hub
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/17/windows-phone-7-series-multitasking-the-real-deal/
We've definitely learned a ton about Windows Phone 7 Series here at MIX, but getting the full picture on multitasking has been difficult, since the OS isn't ready, no one has final hardware, and the emulator seems to behave differently than actual devices and Microsoft's descriptions. So let's set the record straight on multitasking: it's not going to happen, at least not in the traditional way. Not only have we directly confirmed this with Microsoft executives several times, but the developer sessions here are totally clear on the matter -- you don't tell 1000+ devs that they should expect their apps to be killed whenever the user switches away from them if you don't mean it. Now, that's not to say that the OS can't do multitasking: first-party apps like the Zune player and IE can run in the background, and third-party apps are actually left running in a suspended state (Microsoft calls it "dehydrated") as long as the system doesn't need any additional resources. If the user cycles back to an app, it's resumed ("rehydrated") and life continues merrily along, but if the user opens other apps and the system needs additional resources, the app is killed without any indication or remorse.
If that sounds familiar, it's because it's basically a single-tasking riff on Android and Windows Mobile 6, both of which also purport to intelligently manage multiple running applications like this, and both of which usually find themselves greatly improved with manual task managers. We'll have to see if Windows Phone 7 Series can do a better job once it ships -- we have a feeling it will -- and later down the line we'll see if Microsoft decides to extend multitasking to third-party apps. But for now, just know that you're not going to be running Pandora in the background while you do other tasks on a 7 Series device -- it is a question we have specifically asked, and the answer, unfortunately, is no.
so it doesn't support multitasking... at least not in a tradition sense.
but i guess this isn't too bad.. i mean, as long as i can start writing an email and then go online and then come right back to my cursor... or play a game, hit pause, send a text, and then come right back to pause screen.
hopefully i can connect to a site, switch to text... while i'm writing a text, wait for the webpage to load, and come back.
anyway, i'm pretty sure if MS can't compete w/ the ipod, MS can't compete w/ the iphone.
They have actually did a demo on loading websites in the background while doing other stuff so that will be possible.
why is it so hard to update my Yomomedia feeds while sending a text message?
It's plain dumb. RAM is made for a reason.
Now, that's not to say that the OS can't do multitasking: first-party apps like the Zune player and IE can run in the background...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats nice for the Zune-Player and the IE, but what if I want to use a different player or browser?
rorytmeadows said:
why is it so hard to update my Yomomedia feeds while sending a text message?
It's plain dumb. RAM is made for a reason.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WORD! Its really funny thoug how all those people here defending the decision not to include MT by asking what application really needs it. My opinion, every app that loads longer than 1 second, because that is how fast I activate a minimized application right now!
And on a sidenote, notebooks had limited amounts of ram and processing power combined with terrible running times for decades, and no fool ever came up with the idea of disabling MT to solve those problems...
Both the stock iPhone and WPS7 supports multitasking only for their own applications, so you will be able to play music in the background, browse the net with either the stock browser or third party browser. In the case of stock iPhone, a third party application called Nike can also run in the background but that's a rare exception Apple has made.
To be able to run third party applications in the background, the jailbreaking community gives us tweaks such as Backgrounder, Kirikae, Circuituous, Multiflow.
I think something similar might happen to WPS7. Some technical gurus either from the XDA community or other places might do something similar and jailbreak and introduce background processing capability for third party applications.
rorytmeadows said:
why is it so hard to update my Yomomedia feeds while sending a text message?
It's plain dumb. RAM is made for a reason.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why?
OS still allows application keep running,OS just stops the UI rendering ,stops the playing music
eaglesteve said:
Both the stock iPhone and WPS7 supports multitasking only for their own applications, so you will be able to play music in the background, browse the net with either the stock browser or third party browser. In the case of stock iPhone, a third party application called Nike can also run in the background but that's a rare exception Apple has made.
To be able to run third party applications in the background, the jailbreaking community gives us tweaks such as Backgrounder, Kirikae, Circuituous, Multiflow.
I think something similar might happen to WPS7. Some technical gurus either from the XDA community or other places might do something similar and jailbreak and introduce background processing capability for third party applications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is patently absurd that Microsoft, of all companies, would enforce such a limitation. What about applications that you want to respond to the Accelerometer? Light sensor? Any other system events built into the OS/tool-kit? They have written all sorts of cool stuff like the Reactive Extensions (which isn't just for mobile) - how is this supposed to work if it doesn't support multitasking? How is my app supposed to respond to environmental events if it isn't freaking running?!
bjhill2112 said:
How is my app supposed to respond to environmental events if it isn't freaking running?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, to be fair, MS has a way for it in WM, it's called persistent notifications, which works in many (not all) cases. It doesn't seem to be included in WP7 though, I don't see any traces of SNAPI.
vangrieg said:
Well, to be fair, MS has a way for it in WM, it's called persistent notifications, which works in many (not all) cases. It doesn't seem to be included in WP7 though, I don't see any traces of SNAPI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been poking around in the tool kit and I can't find anything either.
MS says new multi-task in wm 7 is more like as iphone's
some apps will suspenses, then system will shut them automatically to clean up system resources
bestfan said:
MS says new multi-task in wm 7 is more like as iphone's
some apps will suspenses, then system will shut them automatically to clean up system resources
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No ,it is different, on wp7s, while apps suspense to background ,apps still allow update the hubs and tiles and multi apps can be suspended to background
Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?
Meatballs said:
i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In other words, it has everything android has and then some - namely, UI you like. Sounds like a reason.
I personally will most probably go to WP7 via Android as WP7 most probably won't be available here for a while, and I never start a new year without a new phone. But that'll be a temporary stop. Android for me is like buying a Ford. It may be a great deal but I just couldn't possibly love the thing.
Meatballs said:
Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well for me xbox live and the gaming & android was never an option for me since it just felt boring when i pick it up, i was thinking about the evo until i used it & after that i realized that i just dont like android. for you tho im not sure what your into, but silverlight should bring some amazing apps that other platforms cant match supposedly
thats all i have since i never owned an android phone I wont speak to much on it
Meatballs said:
Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If a spec list is important to you, Android is your choice.
If a seamless experience with a responsive UI is more important, WP7 is the better option. WP7's spec list will grow over time (probably rather quickly). It provides the "it just works" aspects of the iPhone while giving you the carrier and hardware choice of Android.
So at this point, it really depends on what you value more.
1) Hubs - WP7 is an information centric OS vs Android, which is app centric. Hubs allow you to have all of the information and applications that you need one click away, instead of jumping in and out of apps continuously.
2) Games - Xbox Live is the largest and most poplar gaming platform ever. Games will integrate into Live and will allow you to play fantastic games online, and most likely cross-platform. (Probably not until v1.1)
3) Music - Every WP7 is a Zune HD. The Zune interface is integrated and beautiful, much better than music on an iPhone (IMO) and undeniably better than the music experience on any Android Device.
4) Social Networking - Facebook and Twitter are integrated into your contacts (Similar to the Facebook updates for each contact in Sense for Winmo but much better). All of the social networking updates are also integrated into the People hub, and you can comment and such w/o even opening an app.
5) Other random tidbits -
Applications are super super easy to create (I'm taking hours instead of weeks), thus developers will jump on this, and lots of apps will be created.
Hardware minimum is very high, 1ghz snapdragon, WVGA, and 5megapixel cameras are the min (but the platform supports much higher specs).
Large phone selection! Almost all phone manufactures have signed up to make a windows phone, and you will find a couple on every carrier guaranteed.
Lastly, Android is free! this means its likely we will be able to duel boot on a WP7 device, but you will never be able to do this on an android device
Somebody help me out, this is all i could think of off the top of my head. Hope it helps
For me: the clean interface, Live (and Xbox Live) integration and Zune Pass.
I've tried Android and didn't really like it. In a post-iPhone world I don't think it cuts the mustard, it's basically Google's take on Symbian/WinMo.
I like these arguments...
Keep them coming
- Uniform design language for applications
- Better business model for distribution applications
- Trial API for letting users try-before-buy
- More strict hardware requirements (= easier to write apps)
- Larger coverage of paid apps in Europe
- Zune integration
- Xbox integration
-- Xbox achievements (oh yeah!)
- No fragmentation in OS updates
- Supports OTA updates from version 1
- Better design and development tools (Expression Blend and XNA Studio specifically)
- Support for vector graphics
- Windows Live integration
- Cloud storage
- Automatically ("it just works") sync with the PC.
- Best platform for creating mobile games
- Hubs
I could go on, but what I think is really important, is that application and games development is easier than on any other platform. It's more rapid, with larger amount of tooling.
And this means more than people think.
Combined with the good business model for using the marketplace, the market will thrive. Which iPhone proved to be a really killer point.
Apps and iTunes are two points contributed large amount of the iPhone's success. It's scary how little Google cares about these two points for Android.
sprinttouch666 said:
4) Social Networking - Facebook and Twitter are integrated into your contacts (Similar to the Facebook updates for each contact in Sense for Winmo but much better). All of the social networking updates are also integrated into the People hub, and you can comment and such w/o even opening an app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All of your points are well "supported" though there is one flaw with the above quoted statement..
As of right now, Twitter is kinda' denying Microsoft access to certain functions of the TwitterAPI [not fully], thus the Twitter Integration with the new Windows Live Essentials Suite is still... pretty much useless.
And to my knowledge, Microsoft hasn't fully announced 'out-of-the-box' Twitter Integration, as they have with Facebook Integration...
And to make a stand-point in this thread:
Why will I choose Windows Phone 7 compared to the other available Mobile OS's? Because I like being a Tech-Guinea Pig. Testing is fun, especially when it comes to products from Microsoft. I've only been disappointed with Windows ME and Vista {Compared to what Vista was SUPPOSED TO BE <- Click to see}
Apple calls themselves innovators, yet all the do is polish a pile of sh*t (idea) and release it... if you polish sh*t, it's still sh*t... it just looks prettier. Microsoft is compressing this sh*t with 40 billion PSI and making, what looks to be, the most beautiful Diamond in the world.
{Figuratively speaking}
Agent Zach said:
All of your points are well "supported" though there is one flaw with the above quoted statement..
As of right now, Twitter is kinda' denying Microsoft access to certain functions of the TwitterAPI [not fully], thus the Twitter Integration with the new Windows Live Essentials Suite is still... pretty much useless.
And to my knowledge, Microsoft hasn't fully announced 'out-of-the-box' Twitter Integration, as they have with Facebook Integration...
And to make a stand-point in this thread:
Why will I choose Windows Phone 7 compared to the other available Mobile OS's? Because I like being a Tech-Guinea Pig. Testing is fun, especially when it comes to products from Microsoft. I've only been disappointed with Windows ME and Vista {Compared to what Vista was SUPPOSED TO BE <- Click to see}
Apple calls themselves innovators, yet all the do is polish a pile of sh*t (idea) and release it... if you polish sh*t, it's still sh*t... it just looks prettier. Microsoft is compressing this sh*t with 40 billion PSI and making, what looks to be, the most beautiful Diamond in the world.
{Figuratively speaking}
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ops. Not sure what i was thinking, you are very correct about twitter. But, its time for M$ to blow that 3 year old polished turd out of the water with WP7!!!!
(P.S. Thanks for reminding me about Longhorn! I was 11 or 12 at the time!!! I'm gunna QQ all over again!! haha)
It was a minor error, so no biggy. I'm sure Microsoft will somehow introduce their Twitter Integration with an update of some-sort, assuming that they'll do "Client-Side" device updates, like they do with the Zunes.
I use both Facebook and Twitter, so both would be preferred, but if Facebook is all we can get 'out-of-the-box', then I guess I'll have to suffer.
[Actually, I don't mind.. I'm sure there will be a nice TouchTwit 7 App.]
Let me give you a real reason, instead of ****ty phone feature bullet point lists as above:
Android didn't go anywhere yet. Granted, while every app store has its rather tremendously huge share of **** applications, the respective share of good applications on Android is way smaller than in the Apple app store. Android's UI is also so-so and not consistent in itself (the system itself, third party apps don't count, since they're never consistent). Call WP7 minimalistic, but at least they're trying to go for a certain style and presentation, and that consistently. And even with third party applications, look at Facebook for Android, then at Facebook for iPhone. Maybe it's just me, but I want everything I use on the phone to be somewhat attractive. Now look at the upcoming Facebook integration in WP7. Unless you're absolutely disgusted by the Metro style, it looks way more attractive than the Android offering. This'll apply to a lot of future applications, too.
And with the easy and powerful programming environment available in WP7, you should see quite a bunch of decent and innovative applications. Because applications is where it's at in the end. An example: WP7 isn't even out yet, some guy is already demoing a panorama stitching application on Youtube, while there isn't even such a thing available for Android, and the platform's out since quite a while.
I've tried programming with the Android SDK, it was a pretty frustrating experience. Unless someone's a sperg or has tangible financial opportunities to be had (i.e. killer app or hired as Android developer), I don't see people giving it enough effort. As to be witnessed by current application quality.
Tom Servo said:
Android's UI is also so-so and not consistent in itself (the system itself, third party apps don't count, since they're never consistent)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And actually third party apps will be consistent in WP7, it's awesome \o/
The amount of games available months before launch is also staggering.
^ your opinion only.
You have several FB and twitter apps to choose from on android, so your point there is completely bogus.
And they're all winners in terms of visual prowess and usability (note: sarcasm).
Windcape said:
And actually third party apps will be consistent in WP7, it's awesome \o/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No they won't. Microsoft's obviously a gatekeeper on what it'll allow onto the marketplace and what not. But nothing forces you to keep within the Metro guidelines. You're dealing with Silverlight here, you can do whatever you want. I'm keeping a GPS logger on the backburner and am currently tinkering with a second UI for it based on the Zune desktop software. Granted, it's kinda Metro-like, but still completely breaks the norm in relation to the system UI.
I'm aware it's possible, but it's common practice for UI developers from the .NET / Windows stack to stick to the design guidelines. The vast majority will be using the Metro design language, and utilizing pivot/panorama controls, and so on. (Except for games, of course).
Tom Servo said:
No they won't. Microsoft's obviously a gatekeeper on what it'll allow onto the marketplace and what not. But nothing forces you to keep within the Metro guidelines. You're dealing with Silverlight here, you can do whatever you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right, however, judging by all the demos so far, a lot of applications actually are very close to the standard. Simply because the Metro concept is pretty strong I guess. So we can at least reasonably expect a lot of "apps" that conform.
Tom Servo said:
I'm keeping a GPS logger on the backburner and am currently tinkering with a second UI for it based on the Zune desktop software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A GPS logger for WP7? Running in foreground all the time?
vangrieg said:
You are right, however, judging by all the demos so far, a lot of applications actually are very close to the standard. Simply because the Metro concept is pretty strong I guess. So we can at least reasonably expect a lot of "apps" that conform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not opposed to custom UIs. But I very rarely see good ones. Hell, even myself am copying an established UI for **** and giggles, because most other things I've tried looked like **** in practise (I'd say I've at least a baseline talent in graphical design).
For that matter, the current templates shipped with the latest SDK don't match the system that well. They're close, but not exact.
For some reason, Microsoft figured to write WP7 with Iris UIX, while giving us developers Silverlight instead, with clones of the various system controls.
vangrieg said:
A GPS logger for WP7? Running in foreground all the time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. That obviously relies on the application continuing to run on the phone, if you lock the screen. Sadly I couldn't test this yet, since the emulator locks up when you set a screen timeout and let it happen.
As for running in foreground, I don't see the problem in that. Personally, when I'm on my way with a bike, I have the phone stashed away in the backpack, so I don't need anything else running.
Remains to be seen, if calls interrupt the application. Not sure how to initiate fake incoming calls on the emulator.
Tom Servo said:
I'm not opposed to custom UIs. But I very rarely see good ones. Hell, even myself am copying an established UI for **** and giggles, because most other things I've tried looked like **** in practise (I'd say I've at least a baseline talent in graphical design).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's hard to beat a professional design, with some talent or not. People spend a lot of time on those for a reason.
Tom Servo said:
For that matter, the current templates shipped with the latest SDK don't match the system that well. They're close, but not exact.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True. They promised to supply Pivot and Panorama in the final version of tools, AFAIR.
Tom Servo said:
For some reason, Microsoft figured to write WP7 with Iris UIX, while giving us developers Silverlight instead, with clones of the various system controls.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess it was difficult to do it in Silverlight when it wasn't ready? Apart from that, you don't want a web browser done in C#.
Tom Servo said:
As for running in foreground, I don't see the problem in that. Personally, when I'm on my way with a bike, I have the phone stashed away in the backpack, so I don't need anything else running.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't use GPS loggers myself but always thought one of the core usecases was logging your track while you're using satnav.
I would not take any win oh no matter what version over Android. Personally windows phone 7 def.ly is a major upgrade but it still can't be compared to the open source Android. You will def.ly be by far more restrictive with win 7 ph, plus the apps market for WP7 can't be compare to the Android market.
Don't get me wrong WP7 is a total and competely new UI with a bunch of features that would def.ly be useful to some, but at the end of the day it's MS.
Sent from my Evo using XDA App
Hi!
I'm a fan of resistive touchscreens, therefore I currently to stay with WM (or I could switch to Symbian).
Would I be open to switching to a capacitive-based phone, I'd probably go for Android. Now WP7 is out and I'm curious, what does it actually offer over Android phones? A different user interface and support for M$ games (for that I have my PC), so why, in your opinion, should s user interested basically in a phone/organizer/messages/e-book reader switch to WP7 instead of another system?
I don't intend this as a clash topic like "which system is better", I'm just curious.
Thanks
If you use a lot of MS services and depend on Exchange then WP7 will be for you.
Personally I don't really like Android. It just feels overall unfinished (and often quite sluggish) and all held together with alot of different 3rd party apps, and the fact that 3rd party apps can replace the homescreen, SMS function etc.
Sir. Haxalot said:
Personally I don't really like Android. It just feels overall unfinished (and often quite sluggish) and all held together with alot of different 3rd party apps, and the fact that 3rd party apps can replace the homescreen, SMS function etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think WP7 is more of the future of the ppc. Information will presented in more of a real time and fluid manner while incorporating both work and personal agendas. Third party applications will be enhancements of course, but they won't necessary to hold an OS platform together as we see currently with WM, iOS and Android. The concept of having apps to simply have apps is kind of annoying to me. I want great applications not millions of applications.
Android wins hands down.
Apart from XBox gaming, WP7 offers absolutely nothing that Android can not do. And Android does everything better.
Android provides a much better user experience, because you can get things done much more quickly.
This is because there are no limitations that require complex workarounds and because you can customize Android much easier to get the information you want and do the things you want to do faster.
WP7 is limited and does not provide anything that Android hasn't done before.
Re vetvito: Android has better Exchange support than WP7!
Android's Exchange support is now 100%. WP7's Exchange support lacks lots of features, such as GAL.
crow26 said:
Android wins hands down.
Apart from XBox gaming, WP7 offers absolutely nothing that Android can not do. And Android does everything better.
Android provides a much better user experience, because you can get things done much more quickly.
This is because there are no limitations that require complex workarounds and because you can customize Android much easier to get the information you want and do the things you want to do faster.
WP7 is limited and does not provide anything that Android hasn't done before.
Re vetvito: Android has better Exchange support than WP7!
Android's Exchange support is now 100%. WP7's Exchange support lacks lots of features, such as GAL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can android pin anything to its start screen?? like fav songs, artist, albums, games, the list goes onnnn wp7 can pin pretty much anything and as far as "you can get things done much more quickly" i would think the home screen would be the simplest and fastest so not sure where you are getting you facts...
rruffman said:
can android pin anything to its start screen?? like fav songs, artist, albums, games, the list goes onnnn wp7 can pin pretty much anything and as far as "you can get things done much more quickly" i would think the home screen would be the simplest and fastest so not sure where you are getting you facts...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, but I'm pretty sure there'll be an app for it if it's actually a feature anyone wants.
Personally, I don't see the usefulness of having individual songs pinned to the homescreen, but that doesn't mean anything. Android is very customizable and it doesn't matter at all what I'd want (or what Google would want for that matter) because someone can just make it happen.
Depending on the app you use to play music, you can pin a playlist to the home screen which I could see being useful (not for me, but for others).
Games you can definitely pin to the homescreen though.
This is basically the same as Windows 7 being able to pin apps to the Task Bar. This is something that is pretty useful for me (for the apps I use all the time), but most people I know absolutely hate it.
But, if it's something people want, an app can be made. Can an app make your phone multitask?
tjhart85 said:
No, but I'm pretty sure there'll be an app for it if it's actually a feature anyone wants.
Personally, I don't see the usefulness of having individual songs pinned to the homescreen, but that doesn't mean anything. Android is very customizable and it doesn't matter at all what I'd want (or what Google would want for that matter) because someone can just make it happen.
Depending on the app you use to play music, you can pin a playlist to the home screen which I could see being useful (not for me, but for others).
Games you can definitely pin to the homescreen though.
This is basically the same as Windows 7 being able to pin apps to the Task Bar. This is something that is pretty useful for me (for the apps I use all the time), but most people I know absolutely hate it.
But, if it's something people want, an app can be made. Can an app make your phone multitask?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
here we go with the multi task again... the fact is no need for app or someone to make one in wp7 you can pin "ANYTHING" to the start screen. next on to the so called "multi task" yes you can run some services in the background on android but apps are also killed in addroid as well only they have access to certain services to kepp things seem to be running..
WP7:
1. App is running in the forderground
2. App is frozen in the RAM and only some threads are still running
3. App is frozen in the Flash memory and only some threads are still running
4. App is not running
Andriod
1. App is running in the foreground
2. App is frozen in the RAM and only some threads are still running
3. Just a portion of an app is running in the background as a service, the main app is deflated and residing in memory, or has been killed, leaving only the service.
4. App is not running, but is still in Memory in a deflated state until RAM runs out.
5. App is killed and not residing in memory. It may leave call to the OS to revive it periodically when conditions are met.
and no an app cannot be made for wp7.. but when this is updated to allow 3rd party apps to access these services then what will you say??? you sure cant get an app to help the andriod slugish interface to work better or an app to correct the fragmentation in androids os.. keep trying though..
Biges said:
Hi!
I'm a fan of resistive touchscreens, therefore I currently to stay with WM (or I could switch to Symbian).
Would I be open to switching to a capacitive-based phone, I'd probably go for Android. Now WP7 is out and I'm curious, what does it actually offer over Android phones? A different user interface and support for M$ games (for that I have my PC), so why, in your opinion, should s user interested basically in a phone/organizer/messages/e-book reader switch to WP7 instead of another system?
I don't intend this as a clash topic like "which system is better", I'm just curious.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I share your sentiments. Resistive is much better...............
I also think constantly what is the way to go.
For me a massive turn on in WP7 is consistent, simple, modern UI experience
the whole OS seems great and modern, with no fragmentation or too much eyecandy.
BUT there are cruical lacks which makes - at launch - WP7 crippled.
Android in reverse is kind of complete with functionality.
I observe how Microsoft will react and what will plan.
Definitely - I can't live without beeing able to choose whatever attachement I want in email
for instance.
So for me obesrvation, and decision to be made once these WP7 devices will come to Poland.
I have been a HEAVY Android user and promoter over the past year, I have had just about any device under the sun I could get my hands on for T-Mobile(and some unlocked european ones as well)
But honestly, I will be banishing Android to backup phone status once the HD7 comes out.
The entire OS just seems like it's still in the beta phase. The UI is extremely inconsistent across apps. You have one app that looks great, and another that looks like a 5 year old stitched it together with crayon.
Fragmentation is a huge problem with Android, Microsoft knew about this problem, hell it killed off Windows Mobile because of it. Between all the different hardware specs, and UI changes it's a nightmare to keep everything on the same version let alone run efficiently. Since Google will never remove the ability to change to core experience, each Android phone will be vastly different when changing OEMs, what works on an HTC device won't work on a Samsung. What works on a Samsung won't work on a Motorola, etc.
The hardware fragmentation is also a huge killer for android. They can't optimize the OS for specific hardware when you have to support low tiered devices as well. Not to mention the fact it is run inside a Virtual Machine, so you take a performance hit there.
Software updates are the main thing that has been turning me off from Android, both as a developer, and a user. You write an application for one version of Android, but 60% of phones don't have that version(froyo), so you start removing things or tweaking things trying to get it to work on lower hardware, and you end up with a mess. Not to mention OS updates don't come out for every device. We STILL have people stuck on Android 1.5, and they are still at the mercy of the OEM or the carrier. Custom UIs and OEM changes have been ****ing up the OS updates for a long time. I remember back when I had the Hero how long I had to wait to get 2.x, meanwhile the Droid was just launched, the Nexus One was annoucned, it was horrible when all these new apps come out that support the latest OS and you are stuck on an older version.
Sure while the customizability of android is great, some of you Android zealots have to stop and ask yourself, is too much customization a bad thing?
take a look at the iPhone(don't flame me here, is just an example ) the iPhone 3G, which released before the G1 is capable of running the LATEST version of iOS. It wasn't left behind because of some OEM changes, or because of older hardware. Apple knows that people are still in a contract with it, so they continue to support it for atleast 2 years. Sure while it may not have all the features of it's bigger brothers(3GS and 4) that is because it is limited by it's hardware and not because of semantics because Apple wants to push it's latest phone.
Honestly I'm sick of all these Android zealots bashing Windows Phone 7 because it's missing feature x, or feature y. All WP7 devices will be updated in a timely manner and on a regular basis. Hell MS even stated that Copy and Paste which couldn't make it into the launch build will be released with the OSes first update in the Spring. Not to mention the fact that rumor has it the same update will bring multi tasking as well. IF MS is as good with their WP7 updates as they are with their Xbox 360 or prior zune updates, then I have no doubts in my mind they will easily overtake Android in terms of features and usability(I think they already did the former already )
I'm glad MS chose to set a strict set of hardware requirements, as this allows us as a consumer to experience WP7 in the way it was intended, not how the OEM thought it should be. This allows EVERY device to get new OS updates, as well as makes things less likely to go wrong during an update.
With a set platform to develop for, not to mention MS created drivers, the WP7 experience will be extremely smooth, and something Android fanboys can only dream of.
Why is it my extremely powerful phone(Galaxy S) still has lag when entering and exiting menus and applications, even with lag fixes and custom ROMs? When the OS is made for a generic set of hardware you get a sub standard experience(just look at the HD2), but when the OS is created around a specific set of hardware, you get what is called "synergy"
Also to the person who said Android can do things faster than WP7, let's compare a simple task like taking a picture while something is happening and you want to get it on photo or video...
Android:
Take phone out of pocket
Press unlock key
Swipe to unlock or press menu
Navigate to home screen(if not already there)
Find Camera application(hope it's on your home screen)/ Or press camera button(if phone is equipped)
Take Photo(if the moment isn't over by now )
WP7:
Take phone out of pocket
Hold Camera button
Take Photo
Guess which one I and most users would want....
Sorry for my dissertation on that, but I've just become enraged by all these Android zealots who feel threatened by Microsoft's new OS. If you aren't interested in WP7 and feel like defending Android, go to the Android boards, not here.
chaoscentral said:
I have been a HEAVY Android user and promoter over the past year, I have had just about any device under the sun I could get my hands on for T-Mobile(and some unlocked european ones as well)
But honestly, I will be banishing Android to backup phone status once the HD7 comes out.
The entire OS just seems like it's still in the beta phase. The UI is extremely inconsistent across apps. You have one app that looks great, and another that looks like a 5 year old stitched it together with crayon.
Fragmentation is a huge problem with Android, Microsoft knew about this problem, hell it killed off Windows Mobile because of it. Between all the different hardware specs, and UI changes it's a nightmare to keep everything on the same version let alone run efficiently. Since Google will never remove the ability to change to core experience, each Android phone will be vastly different when changing OEMs, what works on an HTC device won't work on a Samsung. What works on a Samsung won't work on a Motorola, etc.
The hardware fragmentation is also a huge killer for android. They can't optimize the OS for specific hardware when you have to support low tiered devices as well. Not to mention the fact it is run inside a Virtual Machine, so you take a performance hit there.
Software updates are the main thing that has been turning me off from Android, both as a developer, and a user. You write an application for one version of Android, but 60% of phones don't have that version(froyo), so you start removing things or tweaking things trying to get it to work on lower hardware, and you end up with a mess. Not to mention OS updates don't come out for every device. We STILL have people stuck on Android 1.5, and they are still at the mercy of the OEM or the carrier. Custom UIs and OEM changes have been ****ing up the OS updates for a long time. I remember back when I had the Hero how long I had to wait to get 2.x, meanwhile the Droid was just launched, the Nexus One was annoucned, it was horrible when all these new apps come out that support the latest OS and you are stuck on an older version.
Sure while the customizability of android is great, some of you Android zealots have to stop and ask yourself, is too much customization a bad thing?
take a look at the iPhone(don't flame me here, is just an example ) the iPhone 3G, which released before the G1 is capable of running the LATEST version of iOS. It wasn't left behind because of some OEM changes, or because of older hardware. Apple knows that people are still in a contract with it, so they continue to support it for atleast 2 years. Sure while it may not have all the features of it's bigger brothers(3GS and 4) that is because it is limited by it's hardware and not because of semantics because Apple wants to push it's latest phone.
Honestly I'm sick of all these Android zealots bashing Windows Phone 7 because it's missing feature x, or feature y. All WP7 devices will be updated in a timely manner and on a regular basis. Hell MS even stated that Copy and Paste which couldn't make it into the launch build will be released with the OSes first update in the Spring. Not to mention the fact that rumor has it the same update will bring multi tasking as well. IF MS is as good with their WP7 updates as they are with their Xbox 360 or prior zune updates, then I have no doubts in my mind they will easily overtake Android in terms of features and usability(I think they already did the former already )
I'm glad MS chose to set a strict set of hardware requirements, as this allows us as a consumer to experience WP7 in the way it was intended, not how the OEM thought it should be. This allows EVERY device to get new OS updates, as well as makes things less likely to go wrong during an update.
With a set platform to develop for, not to mention MS created drivers, the WP7 experience will be extremely smooth, and something Android fanboys can only dream of.
Why is it my extremely powerful phone(Galaxy S) still has lag when entering and exiting menus and applications, even with lag fixes and custom ROMs? When the OS is made for a generic set of hardware you get a sub standard experience(just look at the HD2), but when the OS is created around a specific set of hardware, you get what is called "synergy"
Also to the person who said Android can do things faster than WP7, let's compare a simple task like taking a picture while something is happening and you want to get it on photo or video...
Android:
Take phone out of pocket
Press unlock key
Swipe to unlock or press menu
Navigate to home screen(if not already there)
Find Camera application(hope it's on your home screen)/ Or press camera button(if phone is equipped)
Take Photo(if the moment isn't over by now )
WP7:
Take phone out of pocket
Hold Camera button
Take Photo
Guess which one I and most users would want....
Sorry for my dissertation on that, but I've just become enraged by all these Android zealots who feel threatened by Microsoft's new OS. If you aren't interested in WP7 and feel like defending Android, go to the Android boards, not here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice Read!!! you really tell it like it is. I personaly never owned an andriod but i have had friends and you are correct about the apps i tried to install wifi teather on my friends phone and ALL of the apps i could never set the encrypton and 2 out of 3 didnt even work!!! so i can understans where you are comming from..
I too stated for all the droid fanboys to post their comments in the android boards...
chaoscentral said:
I have been a HEAVY Android user and promoter over the past year, I have had just about any device under the sun I could get my hands on for T-Mobile(and some unlocked european ones as well)
But honestly, I will be banishing Android to backup phone status once the HD7 comes out.
The entire OS just seems like it's still in the beta phase. The UI is extremely inconsistent across apps. You have one app that looks great, and another that looks like a 5 year old stitched it together with crayon.
Fragmentation is a huge problem with Android, Microsoft knew about this problem, hell it killed off Windows Mobile because of it. Between all the different hardware specs, and UI changes it's a nightmare to keep everything on the same version let alone run efficiently. Since Google will never remove the ability to change to core experience, each Android phone will be vastly different when changing OEMs, what works on an HTC device won't work on a Samsung. What works on a Samsung won't work on a Motorola, etc.
The hardware fragmentation is also a huge killer for android. They can't optimize the OS for specific hardware when you have to support low tiered devices as well. Not to mention the fact it is run inside a Virtual Machine, so you take a performance hit there.
Software updates are the main thing that has been turning me off from Android, both as a developer, and a user. You write an application for one version of Android, but 60% of phones don't have that version(froyo), so you start removing things or tweaking things trying to get it to work on lower hardware, and you end up with a mess. Not to mention OS updates don't come out for every device. We STILL have people stuck on Android 1.5, and they are still at the mercy of the OEM or the carrier. Custom UIs and OEM changes have been ****ing up the OS updates for a long time. I remember back when I had the Hero how long I had to wait to get 2.x, meanwhile the Droid was just launched, the Nexus One was annoucned, it was horrible when all these new apps come out that support the latest OS and you are stuck on an older version.
Sure while the customizability of android is great, some of you Android zealots have to stop and ask yourself, is too much customization a bad thing?
take a look at the iPhone(don't flame me here, is just an example ) the iPhone 3G, which released before the G1 is capable of running the LATEST version of iOS. It wasn't left behind because of some OEM changes, or because of older hardware. Apple knows that people are still in a contract with it, so they continue to support it for atleast 2 years. Sure while it may not have all the features of it's bigger brothers(3GS and 4) that is because it is limited by it's hardware and not because of semantics because Apple wants to push it's latest phone.
Honestly I'm sick of all these Android zealots bashing Windows Phone 7 because it's missing feature x, or feature y. All WP7 devices will be updated in a timely manner and on a regular basis. Hell MS even stated that Copy and Paste which couldn't make it into the launch build will be released with the OSes first update in the Spring. Not to mention the fact that rumor has it the same update will bring multi tasking as well. IF MS is as good with their WP7 updates as they are with their Xbox 360 or prior zune updates, then I have no doubts in my mind they will easily overtake Android in terms of features and usability(I think they already did the former already )
I'm glad MS chose to set a strict set of hardware requirements, as this allows us as a consumer to experience WP7 in the way it was intended, not how the OEM thought it should be. This allows EVERY device to get new OS updates, as well as makes things less likely to go wrong during an update.
With a set platform to develop for, not to mention MS created drivers, the WP7 experience will be extremely smooth, and something Android fanboys can only dream of.
Why is it my extremely powerful phone(Galaxy S) still has lag when entering and exiting menus and applications, even with lag fixes and custom ROMs? When the OS is made for a generic set of hardware you get a sub standard experience(just look at the HD2), but when the OS is created around a specific set of hardware, you get what is called "synergy"
Also to the person who said Android can do things faster than WP7, let's compare a simple task like taking a picture while something is happening and you want to get it on photo or video...
Android:
Take phone out of pocket
Press unlock key
Swipe to unlock or press menu
Navigate to home screen(if not already there)
Find Camera application(hope it's on your home screen)/ Or press camera button(if phone is equipped)
Take Photo(if the moment isn't over by now )
WP7:
Take phone out of pocket
Hold Camera button
Take Photo
Guess which one I and most users would want....
Sorry for my dissertation on that, but I've just become enraged by all these Android zealots who feel threatened by Microsoft's new OS. If you aren't interested in WP7 and feel like defending Android, go to the Android boards, not here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK - taking photo is faster with WP7. And what about copying music to your phone? Is Zune Syncing faster than drag-and-drop? And what if I want to copy something from a friend's computer? Installing Zune just to do that? It's the "Apple aproach" that's just a deal breaker for me. I never believed that MS will drop so low. Telling people what thay are allowed to do and what they are not allowed to do (a change of the UI is absolutely forbidden by MS) is just the thing that turned me off the iPhone and made me stick with WM (android was in the very early stages back then). I can't understand why so many people here didn't like the iPhone and are now exited about the WP7?!? I did't miss application consistency with WM, why on earth will this be so important with WP? And you think that OS fragmentation is just an Android flaw? Well guess what - it's WP7 1.0 now. Do you honestly think that all the manufacturers will offer ROM upgrades when they are released from MS? Like the Touch HD ever got WM6.5 officialy?
And for the last part of your post - it's been 3 days since MS released the WP7 and already some people are trying to say what others should do or not... you catch up pretty quick.
tkolev said:
Do you honestly think that all the manufacturers will offer ROM upgrades when they are released from MS? Like the Touch HD ever got WM6.5 officialy?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that is the nice thing of wp7 , microsoft is dealing with the updates , you don't have to wait for the OEM'S to get your updates .
If you use a lot of MS services, especially some mail/file exchange service, like outlook,
wp7 should be nice to you.
but I am an android guy
------------------------
No, I am not a X Man, I am a XDA Man
ceesheim said:
that is the nice thing of wp7 , microsoft is dealing with the updates , you don't have to wait for the OEM'S to get your updates .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They could probably handle patches, but I seriously doubt that they will handle ROM upgrades. You will still be dependant on your OEM to make a ROM specific for your device. And knowing HTC's policy that's something not very likely to happen.
tkolev said:
They could probably handle patches, but I seriously doubt that they will handle ROM upgrades. You will still be dependant on your OEM to make a ROM specific for your device. And knowing HTC's policy that's something not very likely to happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think there isn't any nead to update the whole rom , you can update almosed everything in the rom.
I think it will be the same as wm6.5 , the option was there but never used .
Here is a link of how it works on wm6.*
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=520009
chaoscentral said:
I have been a HEAVY Android user and promoter over the past year, I have had just about any device under the sun I could get my hands on for T-Mobile(and some unlocked european ones as well)
But honestly, I will be banishing Android to backup phone status once the HD7 comes out.
The entire OS just seems like it's still in the beta phase. The UI is extremely inconsistent across apps. You have one app that looks great, and another that looks like a 5 year old stitched it together with crayon.
* Some more text*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly the impression I've got from Android, and is the reason that I'll go to WP7 instead of an Android option.
Jailbroken WP7 would be the best!
Guys its just the ui that matters.. Android offers everything that wp7 is now beginning to offer. Only problem with android is the ui which is unable to display the information to the user the way wp7 does.. But I guess if wp7 has a better ui then android will put on a fight with gingerbread. Only problem with android is that all of us ain't using a nexus hence the experience will be different to all of us. And software updates in android are a joke when it comes to the consumer end... Still waiting for froyo.... May end up buying wp7 because of the experience
Just love that ui... Makes android look old and fragmented.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
ceesheim said:
I think there isn't any nead to update the whole rom , you can update almosed everything in the rom.
I think it will be the same as wm6.5 , the option was there but never used .
Here is a link of how it works on wm6.*
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=520009
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still find it hard to believe that MS will update the hardware-related parts of the ROM. Now it's easy - there is one processor, one resolution, etc. but these are the minimum specs the phones must meet. I guess will have to wait a couple of years to see what's going to happen. My feeling is that the update system will never be as efficient as Apple's and will have all of it's drawbacks. In the end WP will be as fragmented as Android and as closed as iOS. I hope I'm wrong!
I recently jumped the ship from iOS to Android, and being dissapointed by the "Android-Experience" (Overall esthetics, User-friendliness, etc etc..), I was considering changing to WP7. Would it be possible for someone to list the major pros & cons of WP7, 'cos I haven't been able to try it out yet.
Thanks in advance.
Sent via my magical HTC Wildfire S.
For me its about the user interface and the stability. To give you an idea - I have an iPad and was an iPhone user from the first until the 3GS. I then used a Nexus One for 18 months.
Windows phone offers a better interface than iOS in that it puts emphasis on the information rather than pointless Chrome and interface elements like buttons etc. Its the only mobile OS thats actually innovative in its approach to displaying info.
In terms of stability it knocks the socks off of android because the thing actually does what it says it will all of the time. With Android i always feel like its hit and miss.
However what i will say is that the quality and the reach of the apps needs to improve. now Ms has sorted out the multi tasking and notifications service with Mango it will take some decent competitive apps to keep me here as i have been flirting with Android again recently. ( for example the Twitter app has no notifications, birdsong aint bad but only polls every 5 minutes).
Hope this help!
Jay
I dont want to spam, but i am a Android Xperia Neo (2.3) and a WP7 Mango (with the HTC Trophy user) and i recomend you to see this video I made up youtube.com/watch?v=NNo13-LUlHo (if it inst allowed than i will remove the link). Well i prefer WP7 because of its estability and interface and smoothness. Sorry for my bad english
Jay_uk1185 said:
For me its about the user interface and the stability. To give you an idea - I have an iPad and was an iPhone user from the first until the 3GS. I then used a Nexus One for 18 months.
Windows phone offers a better interface than iOS in that it puts emphasis on the information rather than pointless Chrome and interface elements like buttons etc. Its the only mobile OS thats actually innovative in its approach to displaying info.
In terms of stability it knocks the socks off of android because the thing actually does what it says it will all of the time. With Android i always feel like its hit and miss.
However what i will say is that the quality and the reach of the apps needs to improve. now Ms has sorted out the multi tasking and notifications service with Mango it will take some decent competitive apps to keep me here as i have been flirting with Android again recently. ( for example the Twitter app has no notifications, birdsong aint bad but only polls every 5 minutes).
Hope this help!
Jay
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Click to collapse
Notifications aren't a problem, I don't really use them. What really interested me was how all the "essential" stuff seemed accessible really easily, and that the whole GUI is clean/optimised.
Kim
Sent via my magical HTC Wildfire S.
omnomnomkimiiee said:
Notifications aren't a problem, I don't really use them. What really interested me was how all the "essential" stuff seemed accessible really easily, and that the whole GUI is clean/optimised.
Kim
Sent via my magical HTC Wildfire S.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You will be on to a winner with WP7 to be honest. It certainly presents the information in a far better and more innovative way than any of the competition and certainly works far more reliably.
The only caveat is that up until you have Mango - the live tile updates are terribly unreliable. (These are the widget-type tiles on the start screen)
Jay
WP7 is pleasure to use but is at an earlier stage in its life than ios or android, it has the potential to be a leading smart phones but I'd wait a few weeks to see if mango manages to push us to the forefront ?
Yeah, I was gonna wait a month or two to see how Android fares with me, and then eventually jump ship ... again
Sent via my magical HTC Wildfire S.
yup can't go wrong with wp7 everything is much faster and cleaner while android and iOS are just offering specs and graphics, wp7 is offering real usability and features.
Pro:
The performance is superb. No Android phone (even with dual-core) can match Windows Phone's. Apps rarely crash and rarely lags.
The whole WP OS UI carries a unified theme and even 3rd party apps seem to use the same theme.
The OS itself is very integrated. Many features that come build in to the WP OS are separate apps on other platform.
Con:
Lack of customization. You don't like how the WP OS looks? Too bad.
day2die said:
Pro:
The performance is superb. No Android phone (even with dual-core) can match Windows Phone's. Apps rarely crash and rarely lags.
The whole WP OS UI carries a unified theme and even 3rd party apps seem to use the same theme.
The OS itself is very integrated. Many features that come build in to the WP OS are separate apps on other platform.
Con:
Lack of customization. You don't like how the WP OS looks? Too bad.
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Click to collapse
The OS's look is the first reason I'd move to wp. The integration astounded me, we're only seeing it appear in iOS 5 (I'm a beta tester), and as for Android ...
I'd heard of the hardware stability, that'd be a definite plus+. Can't wait to try it out !
Sent via my magical HTC Wildfire S.
I look at WP7 as having the best of both iOS and Android.
On one hand you have the Android approach of different handset makers and a choice in hardware. Like Apple, Microsoft is showing tight control over the OS. So between two WP7 handsets you aren't going to see a huge difference in terms of how the OS performs. The biggest problem I have had with Android in the past is how the user experience is vastly different between two phones, especially when hardware manufacturers start skinning the OS.
You honestly can't go wrong with WP7, especially with the Mango update around the corner.
omnomnomkimiiee said:
Would it be possible for someone to list the major pros & cons of WP7, 'cos I haven't been able to try it out yet.
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Click to collapse
What type of user: "consumer" or business or both?
Your level of computer skills: basic or proficient?
CSMR said:
What type of user: "consumer" or business or both?
Your level of computer skills: basic or proficient?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
User: both, private/business 30%/70%
Computer skills are rather mediocre in the ms/linux world, I'm more of an os x guy.
Sent via my magical HTC Wildfire S.
Pros:
WP7 is fast & stable
Does what it does very well
You can get in & get out fast
Integration
No "real" need for flashing custom ROM's
The UI is clean & easy to read
Cons:
If you're like me & like "hacking" your device, Mango killed Homebrew (Hopefully we'll find ways around this)
Customization (If you like the UI exactly as is, not an issue for you)
Lack of choices in certain functionality
3rd party apps are a bit immature
In the end I suggest going to your local carrier's store & playing with a display model or if a friend has one play with it. The best thing about WP7 is it's performance. Someone said that touching the screen is like touching the pixels. This is a very good analogy, because what ever you do (in most cases), the device reacts to your inputs almost instantaneously. You can't really see any lag except in maybe some 3rd party apps & especially homebrew, but with homebrew, that's performance issues of the hacks currently being used. The last couple days I've been playing with my ex's Android & it feels so slow. Granted it's a cheap no name $50 Metro PCS one, but still. When I try to scroll throw the apps list, it takes a few seconds for my touch inputs to actually be displayed. The screen has a delay of input of scroll to it actually scroll. Everything I try to do takes so long to do.
Than again, I don't understand why she even has an Android device or smartphone in general. She never setup a Google account, which i had to do to access the market for an app for her. She wants to record a couple voicemails. So, I installed a call recorder app for her. She never setup her home screen. It has 5 "tabs" or what ever their called on Android & she only has the stock icons on the main tab & a music player on another. Nothing else setup.
As for 3rd party apps on WP7, yes they're a bit lacking, but I hardly ever use any. I have a few games & 3rd party apps installed, but most of what I do is handled by the core WP7 functionality.
EDIT: Just a little correction to the person who mentioned Chrome. WP7 does indeed have the "Chrome" element of the UI. The Status Bar at the top that auto hides is Chrome & so is the Menu Bar. It just auto hides & in some apps, isn't there at all (aka fullscreen mode).
drkfngthdragnlrd said:
Pros:
WP7 is fast & stable
Does what it does very well
You can get in & get out fast
Integration
No "real" need for flashing custom ROM's
The UI is clean & easy to read
Cons:
If you're like me & like "hacking" your device, Mango killed Homebrew (Hopefully we'll find ways around this)
Customization (If you like the UI exactly as is, not an issue for you)
Lack of choices in certain functionality
3rd party apps are a bit immature
In the end I suggest going to your local carrier's store & playing with a display model or if a friend has one play with it. The best thing about WP7 is it's performance. Someone said that touching the screen is like touching the pixels. This is a very good analogy, because what ever you do (in most cases), the device reacts to your inputs almost instantaneously. You can't really see any lag except in maybe some 3rd party apps & especially homebrew, but with homebrew, that's performance issues of the hacks currently being used. The last couple days I've been playing with my ex's Android & it feels so slow. Granted it's a cheap no name $50 Metro PCS one, but still. When I try to scroll throw the apps list, it takes a few seconds for my touch inputs to actually be displayed. The screen has a delay of input of scroll to it actually scroll. Everything I try to do takes so long to do.
Than again, I don't understand why she even has an Android device or smartphone in general. She never setup a Google account, which i had to do to access the market for an app for her. She wants to record a couple voicemails. So, I installed a call recorder app for her. She never setup her home screen. It has 5 "tabs" or what ever their called on Android & she only has the stock icons on the main tab & a music player on another. Nothing else setup.
As for 3rd party apps on WP7, yes they're a bit lacking, but I hardly ever use any. I have a few games & 3rd party apps installed, but most of what I do is handled by the core WP7 functionality.
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Click to collapse
u earned a thanks from me. I do believe that th apps will get better once the mango ones hit the marketplace. I rarely use them tho as like yourself almost everything I do can be done in the OS on its own
I am on mango, here is my list:
Pros:
Smoothness
The live tiles (I know it sounds like the windows phone catchphase but mango upped the info and style of them and made them a powerful tool)
Social network intergation (having the people and messaging hubs allow you to do 80% of the stuff that you do on it I.E. Facebook and having the cache locally instead of waiting for an app to pull it live from the site.
Search and bing vision, audio, local scout (having it all at your fingertip)
Tellme! The voice command is awesome and I sometimes use it to show off =)
Metro UI, simple and clean and easy to look at
IE it is the smoothest browser around, no checkering
Cons:
Customization
Playing app catchup (mango should fix it and see a lot of ports from iOS and android very soon)
Video scrubbing
No way to bring back toast notications
The biggest thing is once you start use wp7, it grows on you and you find ways to do what you want and most of the time it is a better way than on any other device.
hardcoreplur said:
The biggest thing is once you start use wp7, it grows on you and you find ways to do what you want and most of the time it is a better way than on any other device.
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Click to collapse
This is probably one of the best descriptions I've heard about WP7 & couldn't be more true. While WP7 is not perfect. It does indeed grow on your & 99% of what you need to to you can figure out how to do in some ingenious ways. It is a beautiful thought out OS.
omnomnomkimiiee said:
Notifications aren't a problem, I don't really use them. What really interested me was how all the "essential" stuff seemed accessible really easily, and that the whole GUI is clean/optimised.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GUI and the essential smart-phone stuff (email, calendar, contacts, social media integration) work really well. I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised!
Bad things you'll discovered compared to iOS is lack or apps, and lack of google maps and other google services. Remember WP7 uses Bing, which is very USA-centric, and Microsoft keep regions very cut off from each other. So if you do live in France as your avatar suggests, you may find several features (such as maps and local scout) don't work, and the French app store may be pretty sparse (and no you won't be allowed to access the UK or US one).
I 2nd that. WP7 as far as services go is a worse experience outside the US, & something you should look into before making a decision.
Many people complains about the need for Zune Sync instead USB Mass Storage. I am the opposite one - I like this better. Why?
You are sure, that the phone will play the music or movie (converting 1.5 hours long movie took 3 minutes on my PC).
Also, when you are watching movie on phone, then close it somewhere during the movie, sync the phone to PC and open the movie in PC (through Zune), it will continue where you left off - that is something that without Zune Sync can't be done.
I use Zune for listening to music anyway. Just drag & drop the music on icon of your phone and once you connect it, it synces all the changes and adds music and what not.
And major PRO for WP7 is the UI. Best UI around. UI designed for phone from beginning, that is not just rows and columns of icons.