I have seen on samsung simple phone i don't remember model... however so it has google earth and it was working by internet and was shoing my place in about 10Mtrs corency... so can we or do we have some kind of program to make that on HTS EXCALIBUR?????? i have tried google earth for smartphones but anyways it's requesting GPS device...
It is possible to triangulate your location to a certain (horrible) accuracy using Cell Towers in your area. I believe there are actually programs that do it (I have used one). The best accuracy i have ever gotten was within 150 Meters, standing still. That is the second down-fall..you can't use triangulation efficiently when moving (if at all...)
So unfortunately, there is not real good way to do this. For decent results, you would want a GPS.
It is possible to triangulate your location to a certain (horrible) accuracy using Cell Towers in your area. I believe there are actually programs that do it (I have used one). The best accuracy i have ever gotten was within 150 Meters, standing still. That is the second down-fall..you can't use triangulation efficiently when moving (if at all...)
So unfortunately, there is not real good way to do this. For decent results, you would want a GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used Google Latitude which uses some sort of cell tower triangulations on my DASH and it works out pretty well. I was able to get within 80 meters and if you actually look at the Google map that is in the Latitude, my position is actually spot on.
My Google Maps Street View puts me within 50 meters.
Now is this using a DATA Connection? (I noticed the title said GPRS). That could make the difference. Whenever I tested out a program like that, i would be using little to no data connection, but if there is a greater stream of data being transferred, that may affect the response (or make it easier for the phone to identify the closest 3 towers)...
xXx
so what kn of settings I must give in GOOGLE LATITUDE that it shows me my place by GPRS? i pushing on MY LOCATION but program is saing that my location is unavalibe... I live in armenia can it be areason of error?
Virtual GPS
There is a program by Kamlex called Virtual GPS. There is a free version and a pro version. It uses no internet access and gets your location through the cell towers.
When using Google Maps, just set your gps com port to which ever port the VirtualGPS is using (usuallly 3) and it will locate you to the nearest tower. I will post the program here.
Anyone know why my GPS fix is so slow? It takes at least 10 minutes to get a fix..
I'm running - VaniljEclair RLS6
TW,
It really depends on the weather. If you look up and see clouds, it's going to be a while. If it's raining then it may never connect.
It also helps the have the best tools for the job. Use kallt_kaffe's latest kernel, and download and use "GPS Test" for connecting your GPS.
Dukenukemx said:
It really depends on the weather. If you look up and see clouds, it's going to be a while. If it's raining then it may never connect.
It also helps the have the best tools for the job. Use kallt_kaffe's latest kernel, and download and use "GPS Test" for connecting your GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's clear outside so its not weather related.
I'm curious what the"GPS Test" tool actually does? and just exactly what the phone is doing causing it to take so long.
Thanks,
The way GPS works is as follows.
In order to know your position on a 2 dimensional plane, you need 2 coordinates, X and Y, however in order to know your position on a 3 dimensional object, you need 3 coordinates, X, Y and Z, what we need to know is our position in a 4 dimensional space, which requires not only X, Y Z and V, so that's a lot of data right there, and to further complicate things, the satellites themselves are in motion, also in 4 dimensions.
Ok if that hasn't messed with your head, consider this, your phone only receives GPS data from the satellites, it does not transmit anything, so how does your phone know where the satellites are? simple, the satellites transmit their position, the time, their velocity and heading, ( actually it's slightly more complicated, but I'm not getting into orbital mechanics, lol).
So in order to be able to fix a position, your phone must download this data from each satellite in view, process and compare it with all the other data in order to get an initial fix.
As if this was not complicated enough, you must also realise that the satellite data is continually transmitting in an updating loop, so if the receiver gets bad data from one sat, it must discard that set and start again.
Once the initial fix is made, it's a simple matter to continually update the devices position, but once the gps is turned off, it may take some time to resynchronise, especially if the user has moved to another location before restarting gps.
To operate with reasonable accuracy, (within a few tens of metres), you must have a good signal from at least 4 satellites, more just refines the accuracy.
So why ten minutes? Well there are a number of factors, weather does play a part, but not as much as some think, typically you will lose lock on the weaker satellites, giving less accuracy.
Surrounding buildings and trees are actually great at blocking GPS signals, so in wooded or built up areas, expect slower fixes, less accuracy, and dropped locks.
Movement, this is actually the biggest problem, if you are in motion during the initial fix period, there is a high probability that your own motion will cause problems, since the gps data may be changing too fast for the device to cope with, which will cause it to continually discard data that may be valid.
All in all, the best practice is to find somewhere stationary, away from buildings and trees, turn on GPS, and just wait for it to lock, it will usually take 5 minutes from cold start, perhaps up to 10 minutes in some cases.
Once the initial fix is established, it takes less time to refix after gps is turned off, since the last data is kept in the device for future reference, (which is why it can take more time to fix if you turn off gps and then move 10K or so before turning it on again).
Winmo has a few advantages over Android for gps, since on WM you can download a 'snapshot' of the satellite data in order to 'jump start' the gps to get a faster fix, that plus cell location and agps make it much faster to get up and running compared to Android on our hardware, which lacks cell location and agps.
What GPS Test does is simply show you a lot more data than you would normally see, satellite positions, signal strengths, number of sats visible, number in use by you. Basically it lets you see that some data is actually being received by your device, how strong the signal is, and if the device has locked to a satellite. I highly recommend getting GPS Test from market if you use gps, used it on WM, and the Android port is just as good, ( I got the paid version, but the free one is excellent too).
Any questions?
zenity said:
The way GPS works is as follows.
...
Winmo has a few advantages over Android for gps, since on WM you can download a 'snapshot' of the satellite data in order to 'jump start' the gps to get a faster fix, that plus cell location and agps make it much faster to get up and running compared to Android on our hardware, which lacks cell location and agps.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Terrific write up!
So, GPS Test won't help speed up the positioning so therefore there isn't a need to download it unless your curious about any of the other settings, thanks.
Since the WM version was a bit quicker in getting the position by downloading a file is there something in the works to try and incorporate this process into Droid?
After it finds a fix, if the handset suspends is there a need to re-aquire the sats or wait again for the same process?
Thanks,
Well GPS Test won't speed up the initial or subsequent fixes, but it does give a good indication that gps is actually working, and receiving/processing the data, and once fixed, you just close that and start your preferred gps app, which will fix almost instantly since the data is current.
I don't think we have anything for android that does the same as the WM gps app, could be wrong, but have not seen anything yet.
The slowest is the initial fix, after that it usually fixes faster, suspended or powered down, only reinstall/wipe data will usually require such a long fix time again, however as I said, there are a number of factors, movement being perhaps the biggest cause of delay.
However once fixed, Android is comparable to WM, even better in some cases, since I never could get my all time favourite GPS software (trekbuddy), to work in WM, it is great in Android though
I don't think we have anything for android that does the same as the WM gps app, could be wrong, but have not seen anything yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i also looked and found nothing
The slowest is the initial fix, after that it usually fixes faster, suspended or powered down, only reinstall/wipe data will usually require such a long fix time again, however as I said, there are a number of factors, movement being perhaps the biggest cause of delay.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mine also takes forever every time unless i havnt moved and switch apps within 10 minutes.
However once fixed, Android is comparable to WM, even better in some cases, since I never could get my all time favourite GPS software (trekbuddy), to work in WM, it is great in Android though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i lose gps on the highway, unlike when i had wimo
i still think its odd that i can see 6, 7, 8 sats for 2 or 3 minutes before getting a lock
Thinking about trying this on a friends Eris, but other android devices get a lock very quickly. The other devices have working tower location, so does the android gps system use the tower location to speed up gps lock?
I'm going to take my friends Eris and turn off all radio functions, then run GPS test to see what happens and how long a lock takes...
Ok, tried a few things on the Eris. In airplane mode, launched GPS test in a lock in under 10 seconds. Restarted the phone, still in airplane mode, and immediatly launch gps test and a lock in under 10 seconds.
Do these other phones have GPS chips have almanac caching or does the OS have some way of storing almanac data to assit the GPS.
As far as I am aware, from previous experience of GPS devices, the last ephemeris data is cached in the device chipset, allowing a faster start up, provided the user has not moved too far, or left gps off long enough to make the data too old. However I do not have enough information to make more than guess that it is hardware based rather than OS based caching.
Cell tower location allows GPS to establish a 3 dimensional fix, (remember gps needs more than 3 dimensions to establish a true fix), not enough to be totally accurate, but within 20-50 Metres, which is ideal for 'seeding' the incoming gps data from satellite, allowing even faster start up, since the gps chipset does not have to do nearly as much calculation and correlation on the data, since it already knows roughly where it is.
So the delay we experience in getting a gps fix with Android on our devices has one main cause, lack of cell tower location, and it's possible that the ephemeris data cache may not be getting processed, if this is indeed cached by the hardware, and not by the OS.
Some of you may have noticed a file called gps.conf in /system/etc
It looks like this:
Code:
NTP_SERVER=north-america.pool.ntp.org
XTRA_SERVER_1=http://xtra1.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin
XTRA_SERVER_2=http://xtra2.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin
XTRA_SERVER_3=http://xtra3.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin
SUPL_HOST=supl.google.com
SUPL_PORT=7276
NTP is a protocol for getting accurate time from servers on the internet.
xtra.bin is asfaik the satellite almanac.
SUPL_HOST is for AGPS.
My guess is that a "real" android libgps uses this information to do a few things to help the GPS out.
1. Give it the current time
2. Prime it with the almanac
3. Use the AGPS data to provide it with correction data etc.
We could do some HaRET magic to monitor what the QuickGPS software send to the GPS chip and make our own QuickGPS tool for android or even build that into libgps.so. It's possible but is it worth the time? I don't know. I would give it a go if I wasn't allready lacking time to do everything I want to do.
kallt_kaffe said:
Some of you may have noticed a file called gps.conf in /system/etc
It looks like this:
Code:
NTP_SERVER=north-america.pool.ntp.org
XTRA_SERVER_1=http://xtra1.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin
XTRA_SERVER_2=http://xtra2.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin
XTRA_SERVER_3=http://xtra3.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin
SUPL_HOST=supl.google.com
SUPL_PORT=7276
NTP is a protocol for getting accurate time from servers on the internet.
xtra.bin is asfaik the satellite almanac.
SUPL_HOST is for AGPS.
My guess is that a "real" android libgps uses this information to do a few things to help the GPS out.
1. Give it the current time
2. Prime it with the almanac
3. Use the AGPS data to provide it with correction data etc.
We could do some HaRET magic to monitor what the QuickGPS software send to the GPS chip and make our own QuickGPS tool for android or even build that into libgps.so. It's possible but is it worth the time? I don't know. I would give it a go if I wasn't allready lacking time to do everything I want to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, that makes sense, since Agps uses an internet server to prime the gps chipset, and if I recall correctly QuickGPS is similar, but provides the weeks Ephemeris data. Ephemeris, Almanac and Time are the three main data components of GPS, ( almanac being the one I tend to forget about....).
Perhaps changing a few server addresses in gps.conf may provide us with some aggps functionality, but I am now wondering if perhaps agps is 'broken' in our builds, or perhaps I have never noticed any data activity.
Just had a look at the website address http://xtra1.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin, which allows me to download what I assume is the data file, so what we need to complete the puzzle is, what uses gps.conf, and where does it put the data file?, Also does anything use that data file if present?
GPS is currently pretty much useless in that it just never gets a fix, today I waited 10 minutes and still nothing - I went back to WM to use GPS, so any development in this area would be sweet!
TW,
Not sure exactly what is going on there, last night I installed the latest nbh from kallt, plus his RLS7b eclair build, this morning I started gps for the first time, using gpstest I got a first fix in under 3 minutes, which is faster than average.
Sent from my HTC Kaiser using Tapatalk
zenity said:
Not sure exactly what is going on there, last night I installed the latest nbh from kallt, plus his RLS7b eclair build, this morning I started gps for the first time, using gpstest I got a first fix in under 3 minutes, which is faster than average.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using the same setup at the minute, tried GPS this morning and it got a fix on the move in about 5mins which isn't bad, my girlfriends HTC Hero got a fix in under a minute though and it's the first time it has connected and it's true that WM is much faster when quickGPS is updated. Any improvements here are very welcome, maybe i'll have a look into it too.
you could edit gps.conf according to your own pool server
a list of these servers can be found here. May make a small difference for some people.
Please post if this helped getting a quicker fix
http://www.pool.ntp.org/en/
Update:
i used the appropriate time server for my country (netherlands),
i used a fresh device (android had never ran on it, though the android on sdcard has been used on other devices)
i went to the toilet very quick, when i came back there was a fix.
So please go see if this makes a difference for you, and post your experiences in here
I seriously don't think it will matter what you put in gps.conf at the moment. What we need to know is how this is used on a "real" android phone.
I've tried to find some GPS code in the Hero kernel source in the past but found almost nothing and the libgps for HTC devices are asfaik closed source so I guess it's in libgps all the "magic" takes place. (I fact, for Kaisers the it would be more "right" to do our NMEA parsing in libgps instead of doing it in the kernel but since libgps evolved around the Vogue it was made in the kernel to make it appear just like the vogue gps data to libgps.so.)
So I'm guessing that a "real" libgps.so reads gps.conf, get's some data and feeds it to the GPS. Likely with AT-commands. It is possible though that it is the ril interface that does it. We have the source for our ril lib and our gpslib and I know for sure we don't do any prime:ing in the our libgps. (The sources are here: http://androidhtc.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb-index.cgi?p=gitroot/androidhtc/bootenv/)
It is possible to do dump stuff with HaRET when you for example enable the GPS (I've done it in the past following instructions from dzo) and also when you run QuickGPS and try to match the information sent with the information in xtra.bin. I also expect we should find it sending the current UTC time which by it self propably could speed up fix times.
Once we know what to do we either build it into libgps or we make an Android app similar to QuickGPS.
In fact, I found some dumps laying around....
At boot WinMo sends the system time to the Radio with this command:
[email protected]=2,21,43,2010,5,12
I would say the format is H,M,S,YYYY,M,D even though values are a bit strange because the files are dated 2010-05-11 but it's possible that the WinMo clock was a bit f*cked up at the moment.
Perhaps our rild is allready sending this (someone should check the source)
Otherwise you could try this and se if it helps:
echo -e "[email protected]=x\r" > /dev/smd0
(replaceing the x with the current time and date of course)
Just tried and it was going on 10 minutes with no fix...
TW,
Have you tried gpstest to see if it's actually receiving a signal at all? It is possible that you have a hardware issue, perhaps a broken antenna connection?
If that were the case then it shouldn't work in Windows and it does... ???
Strange...
Does Android require a data connection when getting a GPS fix?
TW,
Hi,
is a-gps really working for you? Very inaccurate. Is it working only with wi-fi on? Is there any ROMs available that have this fixed?
Mine is working like charm... I do have to let it do its magic for 5 seconds though but that is logical
How accurate is it when you are inside of a building? With Google Maps for example...
Pretty good if I'm close to a window!
Otherwise how could it check for satellites?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS
No need to be close window...so I assume that it doesn't work for you either.
Here's my friends findings:
http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/jorimak/where_demo.htm
I assume that's problem of the network in finland. For me it's like this, in-car I get circle smaller then the car, so it actually points on my body. With wi-fi a-gps it does... the same.
At home with wi-fi only I get circle as big as my home or the village I am in. (smaller then the Nokia N95 circle on your friend's pic). With a-gps I get basically my room.
Or may it be the GPS chip in the phone has less satellites encoded in finland then CZE
GPS receivers rely on line of sight to get a lock on the satellites. So if its cloudy or you're in a building, the chances of getting an accurate lock are less and will take a lot longer. A-gps (assisted-gps) uses the wireless networks (wifi and mobile network) around it to help get a fix faster but with no real GPS lock it won't be accurate which is why you get the GPS circle to he the size of your village or room because that is the most accurate position that the GPS has managed to get via triangulation without a proper GPS lock.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
So why there's a huge difference between HTC and Nokia? Same network, same location, just different phone.
Page has been updated with static pictures: http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/jorimak/where_demo.htm
oh I forgot, have you tried google earth? It does a lot better A-GPS for me
HTC support replied: "Our analysis shows that in certain situations, your phone will not be able to locate exactly the location from your friends. We will consider this function in future HTC phones".
So, the feature is just not there. Wonder how to use for example Footprints inside big mall? Or is this still software related problem and we should ask Goole to fix it...I will ask for HTC if they can tell.
Haven't tried GEarth yet.
try it, it's much more better.
Tried,makes no diffence here
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
well next time you'll be on vacation somewhere in asia HTC will own nokia, so ;-)
Are there any agps settings on the Desire? On my N96 and N97 I can setup AGPS-Servers. Getting a gps fix on Nokia usually takes me around max. 5 seconds. Using my Desire approx. 5 minutes. Can't believe the difference is that much.
Ok, Symbian is crap compared to Android, but really, gps rules on Symbian...
yeah there must be some settings but I dunno where...
I have owned the first N95 since 2006 and the 8GB I still own. The A-GPS is far superior on the Desire IME. I use it daily during driving, walking, running, with nru and it is just superior on multiple domains. It is the first mobile GPS that has been practically usable for me. However, I don't use Latitude and I think your problem is more with how the A-GPS functions with this app than the A-GPS itself.
I've just tried it indoors where I'm getting 1 bar network reception, HSPDA running, WiFi disabled and from enabling the GPS, it took 17 seconds on GMaps to get a fix on me ~8m outside from where I'm actually sitting. Pretty darn accurate, but obviously antipode to what you're experiencing.
-----------------------------------
- Sent via my HTC Desire -
Htc support told that the feature is missing from Android OS,so we should ask Google to add it.
I think there is something like SYSTEM/ETC/GPS.CFG where you can define servers,but that requires rooting I guess.
Not that big issue for me,but my friend is more upset.
Otherwise,gps is great,fast fix etc.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
how to use A-GPS on Laptop
Hi all,
In HTC desire built in A-GPS to know your position on maps. I have a situation if I want to use A-GPS on mobile to become positioning system like GPS on my laptop ???? help me, how to use
Ok, so if you go to your settings and go to locations there should be a setting that says use wireless networks (wifi or network access) pretty much assisted GPS right there. Don't get semantic on me here.
In my experience I've had no issues and get a very fast lock, better than my gf's Nokia N97 which can take upto and sometimes over 10 minutes to get a lock and that is with WiFi and network assistance
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App to locations
I have used Xperia X1 for a long time, before I changed to HTC 7 Mozart.
When I used X1, with Google maps, when I stayed inside my house, it will automatically changed to A-GPS, with a circle around my position.
But with my HTC 7 Mozart now, when I'm in my house, Bing Maps only "Searching ..." with no result, while other apps like JustAnotherMaps, TAMaps, Advanced Maps Viewer also have no respond at all.
// of course it respond perfectly when I'm outside.
Is there any problem with my Mozart?
1. goto settings > system (pivot, you'll be on this already) > location... make sure it's on.
2. goto maps > hit the me icon at the bottom (middle one)
3. if fail, turn off and on the phone and try maps again.
if nothing is showing, try and go outside and give it a couple of minutes and see if it locates you.
if you do not get aGPS (it looks the same as what you described, with "my position" being a diamond with a circle in it) and you do not get a positive lock... you probably have a fault device and you might want to try and exchange it for a new one.
the aGPS is pretty much instant on my phone and the proper GPS is reasonably close behind.
oh really
Can you show me the image(s) that aGPS is currently working on your device?
Thanks
There's no specific image to show, it just determines location, that's it. It certainly works for me. Whether it does or not depends on whether the service Microsoft is using to determine cell Tower locations is available and is correct for your location.
I'm in Vietnam now, and I don't know that M$ have supported my country or not :|
kirimaru89 said:
I'm in Vietnam now, and I don't know that M$ have supported my country or not :|
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the problem. The feature you asked is not a-GPS, but rather cell tower triangulation. It largely depends on whether or not the pariticular serivce (Bing or Google) has exntensive collections of cell towers in your location or not. In this case, it seems Bing or Microsoft doesn't have the database for cell tower locations in Vietnam but Google does.
aGPS is a totally different feature. It is used to speed up GPS initial lock using assitance from the cell data network.
found me sitting at my computer in under 5 seconds....
Guess if the gov't wanted to find me it wouldn't be hard!
foxbat121 said:
That's the problem. The feature you asked is not a-GPS, but rather cell tower triangulation. It largely depends on whether or not the pariticular serivce (Bing or Google) has exntensive collections of cell towers in your location or not. In this case, it seems Bing or Microsoft doesn't have the database for cell tower locations in Vietnam but Google does.
aGPS is a totally different feature. It is used to speed up GPS initial lock using assitance from the cell data network.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes that pretty much explains my situation I described in other thread.
On my device - LG E900 - I get GPS position (outdoors) but no triangulation data.
I don't see any circle either. I live in Poland where Bing maps are pretty poor.
But GPS works.
I've searched, and I think that the only reason for this problem is M$ now doesn't have the data about Cell Tower in VN (and other countries)
Hope M$ will add more data soon.
Waiting for nokia help microsoft support in all country.