Related
In light of what I considered to be a couple of very disturbing developments, I think at this point, a dialogue/debate needs to be opened on what rights/copyrights a contributor has on the intellectual material he/she posts here.
Sakajati was abruptly censored when he suggested that future roms may be administered through a tool bar and not administered through this site.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3288089&postcount=10332
And the way that BeyondInvisible was driven off this site by the " takers " and not supported by this site. ( the people that stole his new pay/per icons and published them for free, should have been banned). http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2798052#post2798052 because he dared suggest that it might be time for all the takers to pony up.
When your work becomes widely successful ala; olinex, jockyw, sakajati, MobileMatt, JCKOTZE, Schap, in the kaiser forums, at what point does toiling around in poverty while you work hard for others for free, become less attractive than selling your work?
Who now owns your work , you, XDA, is it copyrighted? When you decide to take it private what ownership rights does XDA retain?
If you request that XDA remove your work, can they leave an archive of it?
I love this site it is the greatest resource on the net for PDA's but I think these subjects could use a good going over by the Mods and the membership.
Dennis
Removing SJ's toolbar was NOT censorship, regardless of how you're trying to spin it. We received several complaints from users who don't feel comfortable being required to install a toolbar just to use their favorite ROM... ask any Mod, we all get the emails. The action I took (editing the toolbar links) is the most benign available to Moderators. I could have closed the thread, and moved it to a Mod-only section while the investigation/discussion took place. Instead, I opted to merely edit out the download links.
There is no justification for requiring users to install a toolbar into Internet Explorer (or any other browser in the Windows environment) just so they can have access to a Chef's ROMs.
Now while a decision has not yet been made, I can confidently say that if SJ had promoted his toolbar as a tool to help all users of his ROMs get the latest "breaking" new on development, and NOT required it in order to obtain the password required for flashing, then we [most likely] would have allowed the toolbar to stay linked on XDA.
I think part of the problem here is that many seem to think that they are entitled to what the chefs produce for nothing. The hours spent porting and testing should count for something but for many it is just expected. I for one have no problem contributing what I can when I'm able. It is too bad that more don't do this.
Kirby
Intellectual property laws protect the inventor/creator rights of ownership to their intellectual property in cyber media. So there is no fear but a concern for any coder that his or her work marketing could be abused or it could be stolen. That is the risk one takes without his or her choice when they share their creations with others.
I also read XDA rules, and it clearly states that soliciting anything for money is prohibited. many cooks are on the border line of asking for money rather encouraging donation for sharing the fruit of their work with others. I do not have a problem with that and believe the majority here share my sentiment. I have a problem however with someone begging for donation without any substantiating efforts, invention or creation to merit the donation solicitation. That being said, I believe SJ was a true gentleman in all of his posts and never infringed on callus donation request; having a tool bar that he feels if XDA was out ( and it was out few times in the past month) as an optional site but not alternative support site that can be accessed where members can help each other is not a bad idea.
We seem to forget sometimes that XDA site was created to help one developer another achieve excellence in the field of e-communication.
so again, I have no problem with SJ promoting his tool bar as long as it is not used to ransom donation for solving issues and i am sure like I said earlier, this is NOT SJ's intention.
NotATreoFan said:
Removing SJ's toolbar was NOT censorship, regardless of how you're trying to spin it. We received several complaints from users who don't feel comfortable being required to install a toolbar just to use their favorite ROM...
There is no justification for requiring users to install a toolbar into Internet Explorer (or any other browser in the Windows environment) just so they can have access to a Chef's ROMs.
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That was one of my major points, there " was " no requirement . because there " was no rom ". You struck preemptively to something that had not happened yet, because it might happen in the future. You squashed his right to promote a private project , as many many people do here, because a few ungrateful people complained that in the future they might have to obtain the rom it SJ's way.
Had he stated that the next rom would be available only by joining his website, would you have shut him down?
My question is, at what point does a chef have the right to take his work private, and how , without any interference from this site.
Believe me, I am not trying to "spin " anything against anyone, I have a great deal of respect for you and all you have done for this forum ( we miss your input in the Kaiser world ) I just thought that it was a heavy handed response ( and yes censorship ) to something that hadn't even happened yet.
A simple PM could have alieviated the situation for the time being, while the Mods figured it out. Not a head on erase everything, assault SJ's right to promote his work and wares.
And I would say again, that the integrity of this site depends on people to share openly and honestly without fear of unjustified reprisal, SJ has said that he will not for the time being, take any new roms private. I think that is enough for all his links to be restored. If not, what other definitions of censorship do you have ?
JimmyMcGee said:
Your opinion is respected. But the appearance was that he WAS requiring people to use the Toolbar to get the Password for the ROM.
Sakajati can do what ever he wants with his ROM, if he chooses to require the Toolbar, that's his choice. If XDA, the people who maintain and provide some presence for his ROM here say that's not in the spirit of the community, then he can release the ROMs on his website soley.
Basically you have to follow certain rules to post your stuff on SourceForge, so think of at as the same thing.
You seem to be the only one with a problem. sakajati is a great guy and is being cooperative in the investigation.
There is written law and common law. This falls more into to "Common Law" area, which is why I said it was a Grey area.
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I brought this over from the Hyperdragon thread to here, to discuss.
I just want everyone to know, this has more to do with the big picture than it has to do with sakajati. This has nothing to do with NATF or with jimmy and I am probably not the only one who has a problem with the way it was handled. I am just the one with the big mouth. And we all know that sakajati would never say a word or give anything less than his full cooperation.
I just want someone to tell me not just for SJ, but for the good of the whole community and as a precedent for future complaints of this type, why SJ couldn't have been shot a PM asking what his intentions were, and if they approached a grey area, he could have been informed and he would have cooperated. End of any problem. It is not like there was any urgency, as I said before, there was no requirement because there was no rom.
And if people did over react then it is good for everyone to get a dialogue started. That is what this site is all about.
Thanks guys for doing a great job !
denco7 said:
That was one of my major points, there " was " no requirement . because there " was no rom ". You struck preemptively to something that had not happened yet, because it might happen in the future. You squashed his right to promote a private project , as many many people do here, because a few ungrateful people complained that in the future they might have to obtain the rom it SJ's way.
Had he stated that the next rom would be available only by joining his website, would you have shut him down?
My question is, at what point does a chef have the right to take his work private, and how , without any interference from this site.
Believe me, I am not trying to "spin " anything against anyone, I have a great deal of respect for you and all you have done for this forum ( we miss your input in the Kaiser world ) I just thought that it was a heavy handed response ( and yes censorship ) to something that hadn't even happened yet.
A simple PM could have alieviated the situation for the time being, while the Mods figured it out. Not a head on erase everything, assault SJ's right to promote his work and wares.
And I would say again, that the integrity of this site depends on people to share openly and honestly without fear of unjustified reprisal, SJ has said that he will not for the time being, take any new roms private. I think that is enough for all his links to be restored. If not, what other definitions of censorship do you have ?
I brought this over from the Hyperdragon thread to here, to discuss.
I just want everyone to know, this has more to do with the big picture than it has to do with sakajati. This has nothing to do with NATF or with jimmy and I am probably not the only one who has a problem with the way it was handled. I am just the one with the big mouth. And we all know that sakajati would never say a word or give anything less than his full cooperation.
I just want someone to tell me not just for SJ, but for the good of the whole community and as a precedent for future complaints of this type, why SJ couldn't have been shot a PM asking what his intentions were, and if they approached a grey area, he could have been informed and he would have cooperated. End of any problem. It is not like there was any urgency, as I said before, there was no requirement because there was no rom.
And if people did over react then it is good for everyone to get a dialogue started. That is what this site is all about.
Thanks guys for doing a great job !
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Click to collapse
My Friend read this...
sakajati said:
Just uploaded the cab to download center. It will add [Slide down for call functions] feature.
*** Please all of you install my toolbar [mod edit: link removed], this is the tool that will keep you updated and you will receive alert/message via the toolbar for news and announcements regularly from me. If you're using HyperDragon ROMs, you have to install it since the next rom release will be password protected and you'll get the password only via this toolbar . No adware, spyware, crapware, underware, read the Toolbar Privacy [mod edit: link removed]for details.***
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Read the Green Parts. The general consensus is IF sakajati REQUIRES people to use the Toolbar to use his ROMs, he is no longer contributing to the XDA ROM Community.
sakajati is ALLOWED and not censored to require this if he so chooses. However the ramifications are, that he would no longer be allowed to advertise his ROM here.
The "common law" rule is, if you post a ROM on XDA, you are contributing to the community and the ROM shall have NO STRINGS attached. No requirement to Give Money, no requirement to have a toolbar installed.
If sakajati wishes to offer his toolbar as a way to stay in "constant contact" with him, then I don't see a problem. But the release of the ROM shall not be contingent on the toolbar. At least not while it is advertised on XDA.
And P.S. lets not get into calling ROMs Intellectual Property, because honestly, ROMs are Microsoft's I.P. All chefs do is tweak, improve and skin ROMs. And I don't mean to take anything away from chefs awesome work by saying that. So saying sakajati's ROM is his I.P. is like saying you taking you Toyota Celica, painting it Pink with Green Racing strips and boring out the engine, makes that car your I.P.
But as NATF has said, no final desicsion has been made, I only type this reply to give full disclosure, to show that our intentions are not to censor.
Thanks.
JimmyMcGee said:
If sakajati wishes to offer his toolbar as a way to stay in "constant contact" with him, then I don't see a problem. But the release of the ROM shall not be contingent on the toolbar. At least not while it is advertised on XDA.
But as NATF has said, no final decision has been made, I only type this reply to give full disclosure, to show that our intentions are not to censor.
Thanks.
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Click to collapse
Since this has all been put to rest, I just have some final thoughts and then I'll shut up.
It was never about XDA's/Mod's disapproval as to what he intended to do, you all are entrusted with the success and smooth running of this site and have every right to administer this site as you see fit, (as I have every right to question why ) And it was not really about SJ, he was just the vehicle of my overall concern about creative people leaving this site because of real and perceived ( do it our way or get out ) disagreements.
I guess I just wanted to know, if people decided to take their projects private,such as a new rom, would they still be welcome here to support older projects or develop new projects here ( that fell within XDA guildlines ) and while supporting their projects, could they in a subtle non-commercial way, direct people to private/financially enhancing projects.
And of course I still object to the way it was handled, that sort of, " we are taking it all down until we decide " way of doing it, is something that happens to noobs that don't know any better. Not to someone who has done as much for, and contributed so much to the Kaiser community as sakajati has done.
The Mods always preach, " if you have a dispute with another member, take it to PM, " Unfortunately this great advise wasn't followed, and I am glad that SJ was not offended by this and did not pack up his toys and go home ( like unfortunately other members have done )
And I am sorry if " I " have offended anyone, that was not my intention. I love this site and think that discussions like this benefit the longevity of this site. I am glad everything has been resolved and I will shut up and go away now
Oh yeah ........one more thing
And P.S. lets not get into calling ROMs Intellectual Property, because honestly, ROMs are Microsoft's I.P. All chefs do is tweak, improve and skin ROMs. And I don't mean to take anything away from chefs awesome work by saying that. So saying sakajati's ROM is his I.P. is like saying you taking you Toyota Celica, painting it Pink with Green Racing strips and boring out the engine, makes that car your I.P.
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Click to collapse
Tell that to Chip Foose and Orange County Choppers. They take other people's parts, design and tweak and create masterpieces worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Your telling me a Foose Design isn't intellectual property?
denco7 said:
The Mods always preach, " if you have a dispute with another member, take it to PM, " Unfortunately this great advise wasn't followed, and I am glad that SJ was not offended by this and did not pack up his toys and go home ( like unfortunately other members have done )
And I am sorry if " I " have offended anyone, that was not my intention. I love this site and think that discussions like this benefit the longevity of this site. I am glad everything has been resolved and I will shut up and go away now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not an issue of personal disagreement, it is a violation of our rules of operation. When we see questionable activity, we will always take the action of stopping the activity, contacting the OP, and trying to resolve it quickly. I am sure SJ understands this as well as anyone here that it was nothing personal, and simply just S.O.P. around here. It's a lot easier to take down a problem for a couple days, and then let it back up with an apology than it is to remove it after we've debated.
As for you question about prior contributions, of course anyone is welcome to support anything that they have and continue to offer that is in compliance with our rules here. Nothing even stops a user from selling some stuff, and giving others away. It's just that they can't post the stuff they're selling here, just the donation ware.
IP
I have just a couple points. The Phoenix team has a separate website we use for tracking bugs and other discussion so we don't clutter up this site. However our intent is to foster creativity, open communication and cooperation among users and chefs which we hope results in better products for the users of this site. So don't always think a private website like ours or SJ's is a bad thing.
However, I would like to point out what was only stated one time in the thread--the guts of these roms are the ip of microsoft and htc. Now as chef's we find other bits and pieces that are added--and these are the ip of their creators. Sometimes we contribute our own ip--like skins, icons and very specific know how to get the roms to help our devices perform at peak efficiency. But anyone who would try to take a rom private and sell it, would have some major issues without first getting license to do so from MS, HTC and those other people who own the other intellectual property.
There are many examples of apps that were developed by talented people here that have gone commercial. Those apps are still discussed and linked to here because they all have trial periods. There is nothing wrong with commercializing your own ip..The wrong comes when you commercialize ip that you don't own or haven't properly license.
So let's continue a great tradition of creativity. I believe that this site is the primary reason that HTC and microsoft keep trying to make a better operating system. This site is where many ideas come from. This site gives the OS life beyond the normal experience.
denco7 said:
(snip)
Oh yeah ........one more thing
Tell that to Chip Foose and Orange County Choppers. They take other people's parts, design and tweak and create masterpieces worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Your telling me a Foose Design isn't intellectual property?
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Pfft Those Posers
some confused thinking here -
A cook can ask for a contribution for his time but there is no way he can claim that a cooked rom is his IPR because it's belongs to someone else start with - no licence to modify has been granted!
Now creating programs from scratch, that's a different issue and how they want to deal with payment is upto them.
my theory is whoever created the forum and then got ppl to volounter to mantain it
ITS THERE FORUM
Its really up to them what they want to do
Hello guys I'm the creator of the Palm Pre theme and mod @ leakdroid.com we were contacted by Palm, Inc. They demand that we immediately remove the application and any advertisements regarding the application from any website on which they appear. This includes wallpapers/ringtones/icons/screenshots.
So i'm asking you all to remove any icon/wallpaper you might have.
It was a fun ride theming the AndroidOs. Mods please take action..
Thank you all for your Support.
Wow that sucks
Damn thats some crazy ****!!
My wife was actually planning on going this weekend to get/order one for work (her work isn't with T-Mobile, so she has different choices).
I can't wait to tell her about this when she wakes up. I know her feelings about this type of nonsense, and I guarantee she won't be wanting a Palm after this. It's a "theme" for goodness sake... a sincere form of flattery. And in her case, she was pretty dead-set on getting one. I don't know what she'll end up getting now, but I can almost 100 percent guarantee she'll spit on the Palm demo unit when she walks by it to look at other phones.
It's not like the OS was ported over for the phone. Just some creative types put together a theme that partially emulates the look and, well, less slightly, the feel of the POS Palm.
It's nice to see makers show their true colors at any early stage in the game. Thank you Palm, you silly little request irked us enough to reconsider a Palm purchase. Hope your board is proud.
does this mean that any other theme that has any elements of your pre theme must remove those as well, or just palm branded images? this sucks massively.
Aren't they in a battle with Apple for some crap like this? Not theme wise but trying to sue because they Palm hacked the Pre to work on iTunes, Apple updated iTunes and Palm got made saying it violated some USB crap?
I read an articial and I just skimmed tho it.
O well, I never called for the theme but now I WANT IT just because.
I'm not mad, more irritated by this move by Palm. Like a previous poster said, it's a theme. Just the fact that they did this will guarantee I never buy anything palm.
Shoot, if I could remove the "Palm's" of my hand I would.
Whatever.
Great work anyways l3wish. Sucks you put a lot into it for this to happen. I'm sure you'll create some other great theme(s).
Dear Palm,
Suck it.
Sincerely,
Six6Sicks.
palm pre layout looks so GAY. so the fact that palm is doing this crap makes them MORE GAY .
palm eat a fat "____"
@l3ish i hope this doesnt stop u on making theme's for us
I say we leave the themes on our phone, just to stick it to them.
I think you know what I want, anyone that has it please help me out cbowley603 |@| gmail |.| com thanks.
I see no reason why we can't continue to use the theme if we like it but I know it can't be up for downloads anymore because then l3wish would get into trouble and we don't want that...l3wish don't pull a Haykuro on us and leave man we need you...[l3wish says in his Tony Montana voice at Palm Inc.]
What you lookin' at? You all a bunch of ****in' assholes. You know why? You don't have the guts to be what you wanna be? You need people like me. You need people like me so you can point your ****in' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie. Me, I don't have that problem. Me, I always tell the truth. Even when I lie. So say good night to the bad guy! Come on. The last time you gonna see a bad guy like this again, let me tell you. Come on. Make way for the bad guy. There's a bad guy comin' through! Better get outta his way!
P.S. Sorry for the language but when you quote Tony there is no other way.
l3wish said:
Hello guys I'm the creator of the Palm Pre theme and mod @ leakdroid.com we were contacted by Palm, Inc. They demand that we immediately remove the application and any advertisements regarding the application from any website on which they appear. This includes wallpapers/ringtones/icons/screenshots.
So i'm asking you all to remove any icon/wallpaper you might have.
It was a fun ride theming the AndroidOs. Mods please take action..
Thank you all for your Support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There have been "funny" people in the past who eg. demanded crossbow to be deleted in name of Microsoft, but turned to be false.
We wait until OFFICIAL claim of Palm, via the PROPER channels, and not by an UNVERIFIED notice placed by a third party!
All themes and wallpapers can stay UPON FURTHER NOTICE.
hey guys,
I have some awesome news!
Angry birds is coming to BADA!
I just gotted this e-mail this morning with this in it
Hello Tom,
And thank you for contacting us.
We are currently investigating the demand of Angry Birds for Bada devices.
In order to get all the latest news to your email, you can subscribe to our Bada newsletter by clicking the link below.
tinyurl . com/AngryBirdsforBada
Best Regards,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have fun
tom
Currently investigating != Coming. I hope it does though.
Yeah they have been talking about this for MONTHS this is not news.
Also, you posted this as a news topic on your Android port site, what has this got to do with porting Android?
Seriously what age are you?
angry birds "coming" 3 months maybe more
sabianadmin said:
Yeah they have been talk about this for MONTHS this is not news.
Also, you posted this as a news topic on your Android port site, what has this got to do with porting Bada?
Seriously what age are you?
Click to expand...
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first of all my site doesnt go about the wavedroid project we host the wavedroid project
second: i can do with "MY" Site what i want
third i have the balls to start this i do my best to get people to my site and that they help
fourth: why the f*ck are you searching for complaints?
guys like you can really piss me off
Soo it's good topic to show this :
petitions24 . com/we_want_real_racing_2_for_bada_platform
Its one of the bests games for smartphones so sign petition to have it for bada
We have mes from site developer :
Sam Mayo, Official Rep, replied 1 month ago
Hello Singh.navdeep94,
We haven't announced any plans to release on that platform. If we receive enough requests this may change, but I personally can't see it happening.
Thanks,
Sam.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sign sign and sign
I would like to put forth that i am head of operations of a fairly sizable open source project. i give an awful lot to the community, i don't expect anything in return for my work. The reason i am on your case is because your wasting mine and others time.
You how and ever run a site called Android port. I fail to see what that has to do with Angry birds on Bada....
I could post that your an absolute joke on our projects homepage but i don't because i don't wish to waste the time of our users with my personal musings. Thats what a personal blog is for.
Lastly, They didn't say they where doing it. They claim to be looking into the demand for it on bada, which is what they have been telling people, in that same generic email, for almost a year.
A bit of professionalism goes a long way Tom.
wavedroid said:
first of all my site doesnt go about the wavedroid project we host the wavedroid project
second: i can do with "MY" Site what i want
third i have the balls to start this i do my best to get people to my site and that they help
fourth: why the f*ck are you searching for complaints?
guys like you can really piss me off
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1st of all "I" want to say your a prick.
You rant and rave how fail bada is and now your ranting and raving for a game to be on bada.
Can you please grow the F up. You are not the Alpha and Omega here or anywhere for that matter.
If we all piss you off so much then leave. Take your sh!t and get out... BTW dont let the door hit you on the way out.
Your flipping a 2 same sided coin because it suites you and all your doing is pissing ppl off because you cant deside if your Eve or Steve.
Make up your mind what you want and get your own house in order. I personally cannot account for your attetude or justify why you think you created the heavens and earth and frankly i bet no one could care less about it either.
You're just like a kid... I want! I Want! ... and then when you dont get it or someone gives you some intilectual feedback you flip out and get all crazy and kick your dog because it just didnt carry your approval
Word of advice: Stop acting like a child and ppl will stop treating you like on. Pick your side and stick to it. Either Andriod or Bada.
wavedroid said:
first of all my site doesnt go about the wavedroid project we host the wavedroid project
second: i can do with "MY" Site what i want
third i have the balls to start this i do my best to get people to my site and that they help
fourth: why the f*ck are you searching for complaints?
guys like you can really piss me off
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keep it up bro,thanks.
toxicdust said:
1st of all "I" want to say your a prick.
You rant and rave how fail bada is and now your ranting and raving for a game to be on bada.
Can you please grow the F up. You are not the Alpha and Omega here or anywhere for that matter.
If we all piss you off so much then leave. Take your sh!t and get out... BTW dont let the door hit you on the way out.
Your flipping a 2 same sided coin because it suites you and all your doing is pissing ppl off because you cant deside if your Eve or Steve.
Make up your mind what you want and get your own house in order. I personally cannot account for your attetude or justify why you think you created the heavens and earth and frankly i bet no one could care less about it either.
You're just like a kid... I want! I Want! ... and then when you dont get it or someone gives you some intilectual feedback you flip out and get all crazy and kick your dog because it just didnt carry your approval
Word of advice: Stop acting like a child and ppl will stop treating you like on. Pick your side and stick to it. Either Andriod or Bada.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Calm down,man.We know Toxicdust (you), Sabianadmin ,people who always ready for help.What's this bro.Insulting someone.If u r perfect do it or give chance to others.Don't make them upset.
Sorry man if i interfered or said something wrong.
Goooood news ! for bada users
Guys please chill out. Lets not Flame in here.
With so many haters and detractors crawling out of the woodwork to bash WP7 at any sign of a positive post, is there really a point to this forum? All it does is give the naysayers a place to congregate and spread their bias (as if there wasnt enough of that already) and the mods reluctance to do anything doesnt help but if only the individual device forums existed it would be much harder for them to mount organised attacks. Time to kill this forum?
I voted no. I believe this "General" forum serves a vital role to WP7. The hate is everywhere and closing this forum would only give the haters what they want. Just like the philosophy of a church, if "sinners" come for malicious purposes, the "Word" will transform them...lol
Let the haters come. We will transform into lovers through patience and kindness.
I voted 'Yes'. Criticism is good, without criticism how do you want any product to improve? The problem is criticism isn't accepted here, if you raise any issue you're automatically an android troll or an iSheep. Anything Apple and Google do well is labelled as **** and Skydrive is like a universal medicine to every illness in the world. Sure there are indeed a couple of WP7 haters around but most people who criticise it aren't and they're still being accused of started flame wars.
The issue with this forum is people who can't admit this OS has fault, i.e. almost everyone.
I clicked no.
Because sometime, you want to discuss something related to Windows Phones , not only one device. You have no where suitable to post, except this forum.
Also, this forum keep me quite up-to-date with all Windows Phones news and tricks.
Haters are everywhere, you can't avoid them, but you need mod to take care of them.
I voted no because there are few other places on XDA to discuss WP7. BTW, I enjoy heathy and constructuve debate, but far too often a thread is opened only to be flooded with WP7 is crap posts that are neither helpful nor constructive criticism.
No
I voted No.
This forum is far more active for me than the HD7 forum. Yes it gets annoying when people start trolling, which is a different level to general complaints about the OS. At the end of the day they are us idiots of the other end of cyber-space. Mythical creatures not to be taken seriously.
For example, Peew971 has many valid complaints about the OS, but I do not class him (you) as a troll at all.
Life does not revolve around consumer products and shouldnt be taken so seriously, but for some reason people get so worked up about it. I wonder how many people on WP7 complained about their previous OS, hence why they adopted WP7.
I personally joined XDA with my arrival of the HD2. I loved it. Those were the golden years, but I found myself flashing WInMo ROMs too often. Then I had the dual-booted WinMo/Andriod. Then got bored and finally flashed with Gingerbread, completely removing WinMo. I found Gingerbread to be a disappointing downgrade to the Desire HD ROM I had...however, did I care...nope...because I was days away from getting rid of the phone and playing with the HD7.
I voted "No" as well.
Where else would I get a good laugh from jealous Android and iOS fanboys? Because we all know they secretly wish for live tiles, zune and the people hub but they just won't admit it!!
And just in case anyone was wondering... yes, that was sarcasm
Peew971 said:
I voted 'Yes'. Criticism is good, without criticism how do you want any product to improve? The problem is criticism isn't accepted here, if you raise any issue you're automatically an android troll or an iSheep. Anything Apple and Google do well is labelled as **** and Skydrive is like a universal medicine to every illness in the world. Sure there are indeed a couple of WP7 haters around but most people who criticise it aren't and they're still being accused of started flame wars.
The issue with this forum is people who can't admit this OS has fault, i.e. almost everyone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a huge difference between criticism and the BS posted by the core haters here. The missing features are always highlighted while the unique things WP7 does are downplayed and brushed aside. Plus continuously calling the OS beta, crap and deliberately ignoring real problems that have affected its growth like poor marketing and biased sales reps and instead just concentrating on the numbers alone dont encourage discussion. Its always how WP7 is behind, android does this, blah, blah, blah but the parts that WP7 owners enjoy like the design, smoothness, speed, Xbox, Office, deep linking, double sided tiles, Zune player and other features are dismissed. WP7 is the only OS that is being held up to be perfect from its release and its been a constant bash-fest ever since its release.
Voted no. We need good moderating. The thing is we just don't get pure WP discussions. In nearly every thread Android and iOS are beeing mentioned so everytime it's more like WP7 vs Android/iOS. I just want a pure WP forum without those dumb comparisons and to get rid of those people who cannot accept that there are people who like WP especially those who don't own a WP device and throwing things into threads like "android is the best" whatever. I really cannot stand those people.
You're absolutely right about the mods refusing to do a damn thing. eric, while completely insane and overly fanboyish, did have valid points in pointing out that people in this section are complete dickheads. I got a forum warning thing for calling another member out on his bull****, yet the mod repeatedly allowed him to go at other users, in that thread and others, I'm assuming just because he was spreading negative information. This section has become an area that I love, but hate to come here just because I know every thread, even ones titled "Come in here and say what you love about WP7" will ultimately have some idiot come in and say "nothing, Android is superior to the Polish crowd"
Peew971 said:
I voted 'Yes'. Criticism is good, without criticism how do you want any product to improve? The problem is criticism isn't accepted here, if you raise any issue you're automatically an android troll or an iSheep. Anything Apple and Google do well is labelled as **** and Skydrive is like a universal medicine to every illness in the world. Sure there are indeed a couple of WP7 haters around but most people who criticise it aren't and they're still being accused of started flame wars.
The issue with this forum is people who can't admit this OS has fault, i.e. almost everyone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This seems to be the impression I get. I was, or should say still am, debating the move. I want to see what the people say, good and bad, but at times the feedback / comments seem more polarizing than the Android banter. I get it's still growing, and with a limited user base (which naturally results in the bigger fans being more vocal) you are going to have the more swinging opinions being voiced. I'm still trying to understand all this constructive criticism I am seeing (issues I, and would think many, would find fault in) being dismissed for some silly reasons. I hear simple **** being brushed off for the sake of a liquid bm-style UI experience.
There appears to be a few glaring issues, and more than a few minor niggles, that are dismissed on the account of said poster not finding a need for this. Maybe it's the number of users to posters here, but I've seen some more legitimate critiquing and discussion within the Android camp. And that's saying something, considering Android users seem to be the fastest to sling the "****."
Sent from m-IUI
I won't be the first or last to mention the state of the WP7 forums on XDA, this is the most unhealthy place I've seen on the whole internet space and I've seen some heated console discussions on gaming websites. I do feel bad for the mods, I don't even see them around anymore probably because they're sick of all this sh*t and I'm sure that if it wasn't for some developers and a few people actually looking for help and info that whole section would have been shut and done with.
We are all responsible really, no need to hide behind excuses but I would like to talk on behalf of "the haters" which apparently I'm now a part of.
Without criticism there is no progress, that's a fact. However this forum has become a place where no criticism is allowed.
Want dual core? The OS doesn't need it. Want more storage? That's what Skydrive and Zune Pass are for. Want a notification center? Live tiles are doing the job. Want more games? Buy a PSP. I could go on and on, there's an answer to everything here, valid arguments are no longer considered. I don't know but some 3rd party developers my benefit from dual core, some people might not have a reliable data connection that allows them to just use Skydrive, some people might not have Zune Pass available in their country or they do but they don't see the need to pay for it when they already own 10GB of music, there are always valid arguments. Except that here they're systematically rejected.
So we think Mango wasn't revolutionary, can you really prove us wrong? We think the new devices are a bit of a let down, can you really contest that? Microsoft is focusing to much on their US customers and not enough on the others, isn't that a fair point? We think as a great gaming company, Microsoft is making a mockery of Xbox Live mobile, is it really something to argue?
Apparently yes, if you dare to mention anything wrong with the OS you are now some sort of android troll, hater or iSheep who's posting in the wrong forums. And it's always the same stories... "how long did it take Apple/Google to do this?", "Android is laggy and buggy", " the iPhone is boring", etc. no recognition whatsoever of what others are doing right, Windows Phone is Jesus and if you see something wrong with it you're Judas. Could it be possible that we do like this OS but that in some aspects we are worried that it might not get the success it deserves because it is lacking important features or isn't moving as fast as it should? No it isn't possible it seems, because in this place you either love it or hate it, there's no middle ground.
Sure there are actual people who don't like WP7 but I don't think they would be posting here everyday unless they had a very boring life. I think most people here want the platform to evolve positively but you guys need to stop ruling this place like a dictatorship where you should be beheaded should you say anything negative about the OS. At the end of the day, you wouldn't be able to save your camera settings today if not for the thousands of people who complained about this "feature".
I hope the mods won't close this thread although I personally won't reply to it anymore.
Some people take these things a little too seriously. If you don't like the phone, get another phone. Complaining here won't solve anything since we aren't the developers and Microsoft does what they think is best.
Arguing whether an os needs dual-core or not is pretty much irrelevant since neither you nor I can do jack **** about it.
Peew971 said:
I won't be the first or last to mention the state of the WP7 forums on XDA, this is the most unhealthy place I've seen on the whole internet space and I've seen some heated console discussions on gaming websites. I do feel bad for the mods, I don't even see them around anymore probably because they're sick of all this sh*t and I'm sure that if it wasn't for some developers and a few people actually looking for help and info that whole section would have been shut and done with.
We are all responsible really, no need to hide behind excuses but I would like to talk on behalf of "the haters" which apparently I'm now a part of.
Without criticism there is no progress, that's a fact. However this forum has become a place where no criticism is allowed.
Want dual core? The OS doesn't need it. Want more storage? That's what Skydrive and Zune Pass are for. Want a notification center? Live tiles are doing the job. Want more games? Buy a PSP. I could go on and on, there's an answer to everything here, valid arguments are no longer considered. I don't know but some 3rd party developers my benefit from dual core, some people might not have a reliable data connection that allows them to just use Skydrive, some people might not have Zune Pass available in their country or they do but they don't see the need to pay for it when they already own 10GB of music, there are always valid arguments. Except that here they're systematically rejected.
So we think Mango wasn't revolutionary, can you really prove us wrong? We think the new devices are a bit of a let down, can you really contest that? Microsoft is focusing to much on their US customers and not enough on the others, isn't that a fair point? We think as a great gaming company, Microsoft is making a mockery of Xbox Live mobile, is it really something to argue?
Apparently yes, if you dare to mention anything wrong with the OS you are now some sort of android troll, hater or iSheep who's posting in the wrong forums. And it's always the same stories... "how long did it take Apple/Google to do this?", "Android is laggy and buggy", " the iPhone is boring", etc. no recognition whatsoever of what others are doing right, Windows Phone is Jesus and if you see something wrong with it you're Judas. Could it be possible that we do like this OS but that in some aspects we are worried that it might not get the success it deserves because it is lacking important features or isn't moving as fast as it should? No it isn't possible it seems, because in this place you either love it or hate it, there's no middle ground.
Sure there are actual people who don't like WP7 but I don't think they would be posting here everyday unless they had a very boring life. I think most people here want the platform to evolve positively but you guys need to stop ruling this place like a dictatorship where you should be beheaded should you say anything negative about the OS. At the end of the day, you wouldn't be able to save your camera settings today if not for the thousands of people who complained about this "feature".
I hope the mods won't close this thread although I personally won't reply to it anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1000 to this...
well said....just mentioned all the things I want to say....
pillsburydoughman said:
Some people take these things a little too seriously. If you don't like the phone, get another phone. Complaining here won't solve anything since we aren't the developers and Microsoft does what they think is best.
Arguing whether an os needs dual-core or not is pretty much irrelevant since neither you nor I can do jack **** about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You missed the OP's point. Totally.
The customer is king. If customers demand x, y or z, then it is an extremely stupid manufacturer who doesn't provide it. Ergo, if 'we' want dual core (which MS has already said is coming in 2012), we better damned well get it. Or else MS will pay the price.
WP users who are resistant to change are nothing more than luddites, living in a state of perpetual denial. The same kind of morons who used to believe the earth was flat (and probably still do). It is the innovators and users who are keen to work with MS to develop the best product possible which will yield the most dividend.
The other users? Those who want to keep the status quo? Yes, it is people as the OP described who are WP's biggest problem. You are the ones who stifle innovation. You are the ones who will help slowly drive WP into the dust.
Do us all a favour and just post nothing if you don't want to see change. You will not be missed.
And you missed my point entirely. Arguing with other customers whether change is need is pointless. If you want get the point across go to the microsoft forums and give your feedback directly to them.
What we have here is people who are not happy with windows phone arguing with others who are happy with it. If you dislike it give your feedback directly to Microsoft, not us.
Wow, Thats quite a rant. Personally I like android and ios (though this is so overpriced dont get me started as with all things apple) BUT I love WP7 and i am not ashamed to defend it esp when things like specs get compared. The reason we get ansi when you talk duel core is because its argued like android and ios have it so they must instantly run better when the reality is they dont and it makes little effect but drain the batter. However if we say this in reply we are being antagonistic and argumentative when in reality its just a fact duel core is not needed and kills batterys. That is just one example i will give as you did go on. I will say this though I am all for suggestions but dont blame us for being protective when Android fanbois come in here just to slate it.
pillsburydoughman said:
And you missed my point entirely. Arguing with other customers whether change is need is pointless. If you want get the point across go to the microsoft forums and give your feedback directly to them.
What we have here is people who are not happy with windows phone arguing with others who are happy with it. If you dislike it give your feedback directly to Microsoft, not us.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What?
Re-read the OP and try and understand what is being said in this thread.
nobnut said:
What?
Re-read the OP and try and understand what is being said in this thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
seems you don't understand what the post is about.
Without criticism there is no progress, that's a fact. However this forum has become a place where no criticism is allowed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can criticize, but at some point if that's all you are doing maybe you should reevaluate why you are still here.
Want dual core? The OS doesn't need it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You want dual core. I don't think it needs it. We can argue all day, in the end if it bother's you that much take your complaints to Microsoft.
Want more storage? That's what Skydrive and Zune Pass are for. Want a notification center? Live tiles are doing the job. Want more games? Buy a PSP. I could go on and on, there's an answer to everything here, valid arguments are no longer considered. I don't know but some 3rd party developers my benefit from dual core, some people might not have a reliable data connection that allows them to just use Skydrive, some people might not have Zune Pass available in their country or they do but they don't see the need to pay for it when they already own 10GB of music, there are always valid arguments. Except that here they're systematically rejected.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All I see is someone who wants to rant and complain and criticize in every post. Then you turn around and call it one of the worst places on the internet. Look in that mirror buddy.
Bless you. I can see you are trying.
By the way, can you please edit your last post to credit those statements to the right users. You have demonstrated your inability to understand the English language. At least try and attribute the correct quotes to the correct users so that others don't become as confused as you clearly are.
I'm glad that shut you up. seeing how you have nothing relevant to add
In a thread started about how pathetic the arguing is on here... it only takes half a page for it to start...
OP, you have no idea what the difference between "criticism" and "relentless whining and *****ing" is; 99% of your posts fall in the latter category. Everything to you is FAIL, or useless, or MS/Nokia/insert WP manufacturer here is stupid and they don't know what they are doing according to you.
This is a DISCUSSION forum about WP7, not the complaint counter. You bring extremely little to every discussion in this forum that you enter, as you constantly focus on issues that YOU seem to see as negative and if anyone dare disagrees with you, then they are braindead sheep that are protecting Microsoft.
Your shtick has gotten old, really fast. It's pretty obvious that you have a severe case of buyer's remorse, so I strongly suggest you bite the bullet, sell your WP7 handset at a loss and get into a different mobile OS and chalk this up as a learning experience. Don't bother saying that you actually like WP7 but want to see blah, blah, blah because YOU DO NOTHING BUT COMPLAIN ABOUT IT. If you even were around a 50/50 ratio as far as complimentary or insightful posts to your complaining posts, one MIGHT be able to believe that you do have some affection for WP7 somewhere.
But you don't come anywhere close to 50/50. You almost exclusively complain about WP7, so it really truly begs the question:
WHY DO YOU EVEN OWN A WP7 PHONE AND WHY WOULD YOU CONTINUE TO DO SO?
actually, i don't have much to complain about wp7, except that the notification system is a little lacking. whatsapp told me i have 25 incoming messages, when i checked it, i noticed that the timestamp of the messages was listed to be 1 hour ago
i don't know how to explain it properly, but an example would be i received the messages at 10pm, but timestamp of the messages were 9pm
other than that...i got no real big complaints. oh, and the batt indicator.
Peew971 said:
in this place you either love it or hate it, there's no middle ground
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personal opinion. I am exactly at middleground and will be until something is released to give me more interest. I love my pc. Dualbooting betwen ubuntu, windows 7 and windows 8. However, this isn't a pc. Its a smartphone, and its just that. You seem to be wanting more out of this device, which Im not sure what that might be? Its fast. Never laggy. Theres times where I wish I had an android so i could customize the ???? out of it to my preference, but thats not windows phone 7 is all about. As the commericals say, spend less time on your phone, and more time doing what you want/love/whatever. I am a 17 year old who is looking to constantly learn more about anything electronic. My HTC Surround? It has problems, well more like issues that cant be fixed at the moment. From time to time it will have networking problems, headphone problems and even screen lockups when connecting to a charging cord. However, thats nothing different from the issues of other android cellphones I had. To be honest here though. I love it 50% and hate it 50%. Something as small as transparent live tiles and a custom picture background; will in fact make me love this little piece of heaven. But! thats just me.
So to end what i've said, It is an amazing OS aswell as amazing devices that get shipped with it. I just don't think people are ready to accept it and move on from the traditional windows mobile 6.5, android, and dare I say it... that iphone crap.
Its great, it really is. But if you don't like it, problem solved dont use it.
blanket said:
actually, i don't have much to complain about wp7, except that the notification system is a little lacking. whatsapp told me i have 25 incoming messages, when i checked it, i noticed that the timestamp of the messages was listed to be 1 hour ago
i don't know how to explain it properly, but an example would be i received the messages at 10pm, but timestamp of the messages were 9pm
other than that...i got no real big complaints. oh, and the batt indicator.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same, even though push notifications seem to be near instant for me since Mango came along. Battery indicator seems to be troubling every now and then, but pulling it out and recharging it a few times works for me.
I honestly don't get why people complain about it. If you don't like it, don't get it. Simple as that.
If you don't like your cheeseburger with cheese, don't complain that it has cheese and get a regular burger.
I got a WP7 because I wanted to try something different. I ended up loving it.
But that is just me...
Peew971 said:
I won't be the first or last to mention the state of the WP7 forums on XDA, this is the most unhealthy place I've seen on the whole internet space and I've seen some heated console discussions on gaming websites. I do feel bad for the mods, I don't even see them around anymore probably because they're sick of all this sh*t and I'm sure that if it wasn't for some developers and a few people actually looking for help and info that whole section would have been shut and done with.
We are all responsible really, no need to hide behind excuses but I would like to talk on behalf of "the haters" which apparently I'm now a part of.
Without criticism there is no progress, that's a fact. However this forum has become a place where no criticism is allowed.
Want dual core? The OS doesn't need it. Want more storage? That's what Skydrive and Zune Pass are for. Want a notification center? Live tiles are doing the job. Want more games? Buy a PSP. I could go on and on, there's an answer to everything here, valid arguments are no longer considered. I don't know but some 3rd party developers my benefit from dual core, some people might not have a reliable data connection that allows them to just use Skydrive, some people might not have Zune Pass available in their country or they do but they don't see the need to pay for it when they already own 10GB of music, there are always valid arguments. Except that here they're systematically rejected.
So we think Mango wasn't revolutionary, can you really prove us wrong? We think the new devices are a bit of a let down, can you really contest that? Microsoft is focusing to much on their US customers and not enough on the others, isn't that a fair point? We think as a great gaming company, Microsoft is making a mockery of Xbox Live mobile, is it really something to argue?
Apparently yes, if you dare to mention anything wrong with the OS you are now some sort of android troll, hater or iSheep who's posting in the wrong forums. And it's always the same stories... "how long did it take Apple/Google to do this?", "Android is laggy and buggy", " the iPhone is boring", etc. no recognition whatsoever of what others are doing right, Windows Phone is Jesus and if you see something wrong with it you're Judas. Could it be possible that we do like this OS but that in some aspects we are worried that it might not get the success it deserves because it is lacking important features or isn't moving as fast as it should? No it isn't possible it seems, because in this place you either love it or hate it, there's no middle ground.
Sure there are actual people who don't like WP7 but I don't think they would be posting here everyday unless they had a very boring life. I think most people here want the platform to evolve positively but you guys need to stop ruling this place like a dictatorship where you should be beheaded should you say anything negative about the OS. At the end of the day, you wouldn't be able to save your camera settings today if not for the thousands of people who complained about this "feature".
I hope the mods won't close this thread although I personally won't reply to it anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would suggest it's people like yourself, that seem to care too much about a gadget, that are the problem.
I don't post all that much but to speak like this forum is somehow different than the other 10000000 forums in the world on different subjects from real cars to gaming systems to political discussions, etc...
I think some just get too excited because they can hide behind their computer...
Seriously, it's a gadget.
I love WP7...I've had them all. It works for me. If it doesn't work for you, why bother posting in these forums?
I personally don't like Android...I occasionally read the forums but rarely if ever post in them.
Anyway...to each his/her own....
SR1738NX said:
Personal opinion. I am exactly at middleground and will be until something is released to give me more interest. I love my pc. Dualbooting betwen ubuntu, windows 7 and windows 8. However, this isn't a pc. Its a smartphone, and its just that. You seem to be wanting more out of this device, which Im not sure what that might be? Its fast. Never laggy. Theres times where I wish I had an android so i could customize the ???? out of it to my preference, but thats not windows phone 7 is all about. As the commericals say, spend less time on your phone, and more time doing what you want/love/whatever. I am a 17 year old who is looking to constantly learn more about anything electronic. My HTC Surround? It has problems, well more like issues that cant be fixed at the moment. From time to time it will have networking problems, headphone problems and even screen lockups when connecting to a charging cord. However, thats nothing different from the issues of other android cellphones I had. To be honest here though. I love it 50% and hate it 50%. Something as small as transparent live tiles and a custom picture background; will in fact make me love this little piece of heaven. But! thats just me.
So to end what i've said, It is an amazing OS aswell as amazing devices that get shipped with it. I just don't think people are ready to accept it and move on from the traditional windows mobile 6.5, android, and dare I say it... that iphone crap.
Its great, it really is. But if you don't like it, problem solved dont use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i do like the OS too. initially, i found it a little constricting in comparison with wm, but realistically speaking, wm is, like what is, a pc in your pocket
wp7, like it's name says, is a phone. i now spend more time in weaver, in pocket ie or reading my pdf files, or simply doing simple work on my 7 pro
and no, i won't touch android with a 10 foot pole. 1 thing wm taught me is that fragmentation is a *****. android will feel it soon. i'm impartial towards ios, but there's no keyboard. thats a deal breaker for me.
in summary, with wp7, i feel that i'm using a phone instead of a pc like wm was before. it was fun with wm though
---------- Post added at 11:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 PM ----------
Mr_Waffle said:
Same, even though push notifications seem to be near instant for me since Mango came along. Battery indicator seems to be troubling every now and then, but pulling it out and recharging it a few times works for me.
I honestly don't get why people complain about it. If you don't like it, don't get it. Simple as that.
If you don't like your cheeseburger with cheese, don't complain that it has cheese and get a regular burger.
I got a WP7 because I wanted to try something different. I ended up loving it.
But that is just me...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i wonder who is responsible for the lagging notifications. whatsapp? or ms?
cgibsong002 said:
In a thread started about how pathetic the arguing is on here... it only takes half a page for it to start...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, it really is getting hopeless.
In my case I love WP7 because it suits me best of them all. But there are definitely things I just want out of my sight: US-only services for example. That is maybe the main reason why WP is being hindered to flourish. Or Nokia doing exclusive things with EA. What is the point of doing that? It produces fragmentation which is absolutely poisonous for WP7 in it's current position.
morpheuszg said:
Yep, it really is getting hopeless.
In my case I love WP7 because it suits me best of them all. But there are definitely things I just want out of my sight: US-only services for example. That is maybe the main reason why WP is being hindered to flourish. Or Nokia doing exclusive things with EA. What is the point of doing that? It produces fragmentation which is absolutely poisonous for WP7 in it's current position.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
im sorry, does the HTC dock produce fragmentation? Just because Nokia provides a higher quality of software services they are held to a different standard? I'm sorry Nokia has faith in this platform... O-0
I think XDA is a great place to come together as people who chose WP7 for whatever reason and plan to stick with with it. It shouldn't be the place to criticize and complain and moan and belittle the ones who love their phone.
How about we share tricks and tips? How about workarounds to some limiting feature. For the ones that are adept at coding, how about we crack open wp7 and make it better? Many of these things already exist thankfully as I can now take screenshots, put apps in folders and even video chat with my HD7. Thats what this forum is for, a community for supporters of the platform to enrich each other's experiences.
It shouldn't be a war of words, specs and features. I think if you're not satisfied with how wp7 works
a. sell your phone and recoup some of the cost
b. adopt another platform that satisfies your needs AND/OR
c. visit the official windows phone suggestion forum and vote on the features you wish to see implemented. That there is the correct venue for your discontent.