No turn by turn nav is unacceptable - Windows Phone 7 General

The more I think about this the more incredulous I becaome. My new HTC HD7 with WP7 has no free GPS navigation. And there is no app on the Market other than the paid apps that require a monthly fee. Every smartphone in existence these days has free turn by turn nav. Google provides it free with it built into Google Search and my HD2 had Bing search with it built in. But WP7 does not. I cannot fathom how Microsoft can even have a spark of a thought of competing in this industry without providing something all of the others give away free.
The HD7 has Bing search, but it doesn't have nav built in. You can go to the Marketplace and type in Bing search, Bing Maps, Bing nav and get nothing but albums, songs and playlists. You can manually search the specific categories like "Navigation" or "Travel" or "Tools" and not find anything.
I've scratched a bald spot on my head over this nonsense.

MartyLK said:
The more I think about this the more incredulous I becaome. My new HTC HD7 with WP7 has no free GPS navigation. And there is no app on the Market other than the paid apps that require a monthly fee. Every smartphone in existence these days has free turn by turn nav. Google provides it free with it built into Google Search and my HD2 had Bing search with it built in. But WP7 does not. I cannot fathom how Microsoft can even have a spark of a thought of competing in this industry without providing something all of the others give away free.
The HD7 has Bing search, but it doesn't have nav built in. You can go to the Marketplace and type in Bing search, Bing Maps, Bing nav and get nothing but albums, songs and playlists. You can manually search the specific categories like "Navigation" or "Travel" or "Tools" and not find anything.
I've scratched a bald spot on my head over this nonsense.
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I do believe Google Maps is on the way to WP7.

App list... "Maps"...
I have turn by turn directions fine. Only short fall is that it's not live navigation (as in it's not a GPS unit), merely just from current location (or point A) to point B. It works good for me to know how to get there, though i would like to see it actually as a proper GPS unit.

ericc191 said:
I do believe Google Maps is on the way to WP7.
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I hope it will get here within 15 days, because that's the amount of time I have to return this HD7.
I doubt, even if there are a dozen apps for free turn by turn nav on the horizon, that I will keep this phone or ever buy into WP7 because for Microsoft to not have it already built in and ready to go nor have it available on the Market is a bad sign of how hard headed and conservative they will be with WP7.
Without this common feature, they have zero right ever thinking they can compete. Yet they dare to build a mobile OS from the ground up and handicap it and still expect people to buy it over Android or iOS or any of the other more feature laden mobile OSs available out there.
Good friggin grief! What are they thinking??? Are people at MS that ignorant?? Surely not.

maybe you should try and ask on twitter if they have a timeframe for this?

I think you're overreacting a bit. Google maps is pretty much the only free GPS solution on Android. Chime in if there's other options.
I bought CoPilot Live for Android
I bought TomTom for WM6.1
I'll buy the first GPS app that comes without a monthly fee on WP7.
No biggie to me.

MartyLK said:
Every smartphone in existence these days has free turn by turn nav.
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Except for the most popular one...

MartyLK said:
I hope it will get here within 15 days, because that's the amount of time I have to return this HD7.
I doubt, even if there are a dozen apps for free turn by turn nav on the horizon, that I will keep this phone or ever buy into WP7 because for Microsoft to not have it already built in and ready to go nor have it available on the Market is a bad sign of how hard headed and conservative they will be with WP7.
Without this common feature, they have zero right ever thinking they can compete. Yet they dare to build a mobile OS from the ground up and handicap it and still expect people to buy it over Android or iOS or any of the other more feature laden mobile OSs available out there.
Good friggin grief! What are they thinking??? Are people at MS that ignorant?? Surely not.
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Bing just within the last few months was turn by turn nav for win 6.xx so lets keep things in prespective here... there is normaly no FREE gps its called buy one..

This feature is rumored to drop in January with the OS update containing copy/paste functionality.

What's with the spoiled brat attitude. I don't think Microsoft owes you free turn by turn service. I'm sure there are alternatives in the market. Try those until hopefully Microsoft finds a solution, but drop the attitude lol
And as far as I know, Android is the only smartphone with free turn by turn (maybe Symbian with Ovi Maps?). Not WEBOS, not Blackberry, not iPhone, etc.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

rruffman said:
Bing just within the last few months was turn by turn nav for win 6.xx so lets keep things in prespective here... there is normaly no FREE gps its called buy one..
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Bing had turn by turn nav before Google did. I've had my HD2 for almost a year now and Bing stated out without turn by turn but within a very short period listed the updated Bing app in the Marketplace with TbT. I teased a friend who hates MS and loves all things Android that WinMo was on the leading edge because they came out with TbT before Google did.
What floors me though is MS being so far behind the times with this supposed leading edge new mobile OS and they don't even try to make it a success right off the bat. How closed-off are they to the real world that they can't fathom common, everyday needs?

emuneee said:
What's with the spoiled brat attitude. I don't think Microsoft owes you free turn by turn service. I'm sure there are alternatives in the market. Try those until hopefully Microsoft finds a solution, but drop the attitude lol
And as far as I know, Android is the only smartphone with free turn by turn (maybe Symbian with Ovi Maps?). Not WEBOS, not Blackberry, not iPhone, etc.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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My nephew has a Palm Pixi (WebOS)...it has TbT nav. Any phone with Google Search has TbT. Google set the standard and now MS wants us to pay for something we can get for free elsewhere. That's rediculous for them to be so closed minded. Not only that, but MS had free TbT before Google did on the previous WinMo.

It's a little bit surprising to see that WP7 was launched without any GPS navigation application available.
At the moment I still cannot ebay my HD2 just because of the absence of Google Maps and the absence of a real GPS software.

Did none of you read the specs or any reviews before making a considerable investment in a wp7 phone? If it is so much of a problem, return/sell your device and get an android phone or a pixie if that's what floats your boat.

I couldn't do it. I was going to return this HD7 because of the lack of TbT nav, and I got all the way to the store, but I just couldn't part with it. It is just too nice. MS has a mobile OS that, I believe, is the best in the world for user convenience and quality of operation. This is an OS that will make Steve Jobs jealous. Like a couple others posters said, and I did hear it, MS wants to be careful with this OS and make it the best it can be. And that means taking it slow and cautious about features. Making sure the system is top-notch. I think they achieved it. This OS oozes quality from every circuit.
Sitting there in my car waiting for the store to open, I kept playing around with this phone and the more I played with it, the more I couldn't part with it. Just a superb OS. What little it does, it does superbly.

Yep...it took a long time for turn by turn nav to appear on an iPhone, mostly because Jobs said it would never appear on an iPhone, and when it did it was expensive. So at least WP7 has the benefit of not having some blowhard CEO making big, bold statements that almost immediately turn out to be nonsense. I bought Navigon because it included the maps and there was no monthly fee but given the benefit of hindsight, AT&T's app would probably have been a better value. It's a monthly fee but if I need it a couple months a year, that's $20 a year. Navigon was $80. Will the iPhone last 4 years? Since I got a Focus yesterday, that would be a big NO.

MartyLK said:
I couldn't do it. I was going to return this HD7 because of the lack of TbT nav, and I got all the way to the store, but I just couldn't part with it. It is just too nice. MS has a mobile OS that, I believe, is the best in the world for user convenience and quality of operation. This is an OS that will make Steve Jobs jealous. Like a couple others posters said, and I did hear it, MS wants to be careful with this OS and make it the best it can be. And that means taking it slow and cautious about features. Making sure the system is top-notch. I think they achieved it. This OS oozes quality from every circuit.
Sitting there in my car waiting for the store to open, I kept playing around with this phone and the more I played with it, the more I couldn't part with it. Just a superb OS. What little it does, it does superbly.
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Just be patient. you might get what you asked for a short time from now.

Iridox said:
This feature is rumored to drop in January with the OS update containing copy/paste functionality.
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This is what I'm hearing as well.
MartyLK said:
I couldn't do it. I was going to return this HD7 because of the lack of TbT nav, and I got all the way to the store, but I just couldn't part with it. It is just too nice. MS has a mobile OS that, I believe, is the best in the world for user convenience and quality of operation.
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That's what I feel Microsoft has to hang on to to really make this OS the success it can be. I would not want to jeopardise that user experience and that kind of feedback for anything, especially rushing in a could-be-better turn-by-turn nav app.
A little bit of patience and I'm sure we will all be rewarded.
If someone told me I had to wait 3 months for a free first-party turn-by-turn nav experience that worked as well as and was as simply brilliant as the mail app I would have zero problem waiting because well, it just is that good.

For me, GoogleMaps on Android was the first free realtime GPS Navigation software I've seen. And it's not 100% free and not reliable because you need data reception to use it and it's useless when you drive through a big city because it's just maps without caring about one-way streets, traffic and lane assistance.
I've used CoPilot on Android and iGo8 on WinMo and as far as I've heard, Navigon and CoPilot will come soon to WP7. So no real problem for me, I will wait for the first to come.

skycamefalling said:
For me, GoogleMaps on Android was the first free realtime GPS Navigation software I've seen. And it's not 100% free and not reliable because you need data reception to use it and it's useless when you drive through a big city because it's just maps without caring about one-way streets, traffic and lane assistance.
I've used CoPilot on Android and iGo8 on WinMo and as far as I've heard, Navigon and CoPilot will come soon to WP7. So no real problem for me, I will wait for the first to come.
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I used the Bing nav on my HD2 and found it to be amazingly accurate. It seemed to also account for traffic density. It leads me in the direction with the least amount of congestion and gets me there with ease. My nephew, who with one time when I used it, commented about how good it did.

Related

Ehm, why shouldn't we switch?

Hi there, this post is basically dedicated to current users of windows mobile, who bought their phone because of the virtues an open plattform offers. People like us aren't happy with the direction ms is heading with windows phone 7 and hope that the realize their wrong doing by reimplanting things like multitasking, deep-customization, file-system access, native coding or simply copy, cut and paste.
But why should we buy a windows phone 7 device and hope they transform it to something that resembles wm6 offer time when we could just switch to another plattform?
I mean...
- booth the devices we own and the software we use are not compatible to wp7.
- Android basically got every of the above features wp7 is lagging.
- Android devices are aviable or will be released from every major windows mobile manufacture.
- A lot of software studios will produce for Android.
- Through the ndk Google offers there will probably be more windows mobile software on Android than on windows phone in a year from now.
The only thing wp7 got IMO is the ui, and as we all know from endless debates with the iphone-guys ui is a matter of taste and can be ported...
If you're not a Google or Java hater and Android does what you need... don't hesitate.
Android is good. I'm right now playing with an older Android phone, and although it is very slow (old QCOM processor) and has a small screen, I find the experience to be better than the experience I have with my HD2.
I don't have the slightest doubt anymore that Android is better than iPhone OS or WP7S.
It's smooth.
It has a great, flexible home screen (who needs tiles when you got widgets?).
It has by far the best solution for notifications.
It multitasks.
It has a Marketplace and allows you to side-load apps.
It allows you to access the file system.
It copies and pastes.
It has an NDK.
It is available right now and only getting better.
What you don't get is integration with Microsoft's services, like Windows Live and XBox Live. Of course, there's a good chance that you don't care about them.
I've never used an iPhone but I've dabbled in Android for a while. Mostly, through the Poly port for Kaiser. Here's my views on WM6.5 vs Android.
Windows Mobile GOOD
#1 WM5 sucked. Very unstable, and scrolling speed is very slow. WM6 wasn't much different. WM6.1 become stable, but speed still suffers. WM6.5 very stable, but speed suffers. WM6.5.3 is very stable, and the speed is very fast, including scrolling.
#2 True freedom. You have 3 ways to install applications, and the choice for it to be on the SD card or internal memory. Copy and Paste, and all that jazz.
#3 Customization! Like Mc Donald's says, have it your way.
#4 Huge selection of apps.
Windows Mobile BAD
#1 Lots of problems with 3D acceleration support. Mainly due to OpenGL ES drivers.
#2 Only way to upgrade OS is through custom built roms on XDA-Developers. No support from MS, HTC, and etc.
#3 Majority of applications were written in 2003, and have since been abandoned.
#4 With Phone7 coming soon, developers will completely abandon WM6.5, and move onto Phone 7.
Android GOOD
#1 Based on Linux, which means lots of community support.
#2 Already has an established amount of useful applications.
#3 Very customizable. I've seen some impressive 3D stuff.
#4 You can install applications from the SD card.
#5 Copy and paste exists.
Android BAD
#1 Applications must be installed into main memory, unless you partition your SD card.
#2 Very reliant on a internet connection to do a lot of things.
#3 No Offline GPS option for the Nav.
#4 Google might try to take away the "Google" experience from rom cookers.
#3 No Offline GPS option for the Nav.
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There's IGO8, Copilot... and some others. Or did I get you wrong?
#1 Applications must be installed into main memory, unless you partition your SD card.
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Not anymore, afaik.
#4 Huge selection of apps.
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That's even more true for Android.
But this is not WM6.5 vs. Android. WM6.5 is doomed, so the time will come when you have to switch.
WP7S is not worth waiting for, it's just an iPhone OS clone. So, in my opinion, there's no reason not to switch now, if you want to.
What happens when Android becomes the NEW Windows Mobile? You know it's headed in that direction now. There's like 3 or 4 different versions of the OS and the app community isn't doing well. When WP7 gets its footing in the market (iPhone already has), it's going to be really difficult to compete with these. Perhaps Android will be relegated to low-end smartphones
C:Sharp! said:
There's IGO8, Copilot... and some others. Or did I get you wrong?
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I mean the built in Nav software, which the new one is pretty cool. I could use Ndrive, but I really like the built in Nav.
Not anymore, afaik.
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Maybe it's because I'm using a port for the HTC Kaiser. If that's the case, that can be scratched off the list.
WhyBe said:
What happens when Android becomes the NEW Windows Mobile? You know it's headed in that direction now. There's like 3 or 4 different versions of the OS and the app community isn't doing well. When WP7 gets its footing in the market (iPhone already has), it's going to be really difficult to compete with these. Perhaps Android will be relegated to low-end smartphones
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Click to collapse
Won't happen for various reasons. Windows Mobile was never really taken seriously by Microsoft until now, but Android has Google behind them.
It's a lot like what happened to Internet Explorer. When Microsoft won the browser war between Netscape, they left it completely alone. Suddenly FireFox, Chrome, Safari, and Opera are kicking it's ass. Same thing happened with Windows Mobile. iPhone, and Android appeared and took Microsoft by surprise.
Also, since it's linux based, it can never truly die. The community has it's hands on it now, and they'll never let go. Don't be surprised if we see Linux distros in the Future for many phones. Something like Ubuntu or Slackware could become common to see on cooked phone roms, in a couple of years.
iPhone and Windows Phone 7 will still be popular, but does anyone truly believe that phones with so many restrictions will last? I'm sure Microsoft is betting that the Xbox feature will grab people, much like Apple is betting on that their fan base will always grab customers.
Won't happen for various reasons. Windows Mobile was never really taken seriously by Microsoft until now, but Android has Google behind them.
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Google has one success, that is it's search engine. This does not automatically mean success with other endeavors.
It's a lot like what happened to Internet Explorer. When Microsoft won the browser war between Netscape, they left it completely alone. Suddenly FireFox, Chrome, Safari, and Opera are kicking it's ass.
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Nothing is kicking IE's ass. What world are you living in?
Same thing happened with Windows Mobile. iPhone, and Android appeared and took Microsoft by surprise.
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MS deserved it.
Also, since it's linux based, it can never truly die. The community has it's hands on it now, and they'll never let go. Don't be surprised if we see Linux distros in the Future for many phones. Something like Ubuntu or Slackware could become common to see on cooked phone roms, in a couple of years.
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It may not die, per se, but it definitely will never be big. Niche product at best. There's too much confusion in open systems. How many incompatible Android OS'es are out now? Modern smartphones will win or lose based on their apps. Androids app situation sucks right now.
iPhone and Windows Phone 7 will still be popular, but does anyone truly believe that phones with so many restrictions will last? I'm sure Microsoft is betting that the Xbox feature will grab people, much like Apple is betting on that their fan base will always grab customers.
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This is smart business. Use your existing successes to build a customer base. All smart companies do this...even Google.
WhyBe said:
Google has one success, that is it's search engine. This does not automatically mean success with other endeavors.
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Gmail
Google Map
Chrome Web Broswer
Google voice
YouTube
All this is offered for free.
Nothing is kicking IE's ass. What world are you living in?
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This world.
If you added IE6+IE7+IE8, then you can say it's more popular then FireFox. You have to wonder, if people are still using IE6 then it's most likely they probably don't know about other web browsers, or don't even know what one is. You know the type, logs on twitter, facebook, and myspace and uses AIM to chat to people.
It may not die, per se, but it definitely will never be big. Niche product at best. There's too much confusion in open systems. How many incompatible Android OS'es are out now?
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No more then Windows Mobile will have. We'll soon have legacy Windows Mobile 6.5, and Phone 7. Neither are compatible.
Modern smartphones will win or lose based on their apps. Androids app situation sucks right now.
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Not sure about Windows Phone 7, but iPhone has it horrible right now.
No porn apps
No emulators
No web browsers
No flash support
Android may not have as many pull my finger apps or farting apps as iPhone, but at least we can have all of the above. iPhone and Phone7 owners will be able to have 100 different choices of how to make fart noises from their phone, while I'll be able to view flash websites. While iPhone and Phone7 will enjoy half ass made games for their phones, eventually Android will get a Playstation and N64 emulator. I consider any Genesis or SNES game to be far superior then any 3D accelerated game they can put on those phones as is.
The biggest blunder from Apple was them pulling the porn apps. Everyone knows the internet and DVDs became popular due to porn. Enforcing that rule is sure suicide, despite the horrible image of me walking into a public bathroom and finding someone wacking off to porn on their Android phone.
When Mozilla ports FireFox to Android, I'll be able to use ABP and NoScript to have a truly secure surfing experience. While IE on Phone7 fails horribly on the Acid3 test. As it is IE9 gets a 55/100 on Acid3.
Just from what I've mentioned I say there's plenty of incentive to go with an open OS. Jail break your iPhone or **** break your Phone7, but you'll be in this endless battle between Microsoft or Apple.
Dukenukemx said:
Gmail
Google Map
Chrome Web Broswer
Google voice
YouTube
All this is offered for free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Chrome Web Browser? A success? You must be kidding me. No, I'm not saying it's a bad product. But can you imagine how much money a promo campaign like Google did for Chrome, would cost a third party? So you spend billions of dollars (even though "virtual" in this case) and get absolutely laughable market share. Success?
YouTube they bought for a ridiculous amount of money, and it's a cash disposer. Yeah, we all enjoy it, no doubt about it. The more we enjoy it the more money Google coughs out on it. Windows Mobile is a bigger success than this.
Google Maps? You forgot Gmail. Some 90%+ of Google's income comes from its home page. Not even Adsense, which ads a few percentage points. So no, Google hasn't had a single success in any area apart from search, even though they've been trying to diversify like crazy because they are really scared of what may happen if they lose their search engine domination. The problem is, by doing all this free stuff everywhere about the only thing they achieve is that they technically cannot "fail". Sure, you don't set revenue targets, you just burn cash, what's a failure?
I love WM 6.5.3 and right now my phone (TD2) is just perfect the way it is. And if someday I want something to change then I can just flash a new ROM, install a cab or write another tool on my own.
I hate Android because your applications are running in a Java VM and you can't access the OS kernel functions like you can with WM.
Though yesterday I just for fun run Android on a Touch Diamond. I have to admit the UI is really nice done, even though it isn't THAT MUCH different compared to the user experience you get with 6.5.3. Some window animations here and there and I love it like you can pull down the taskbar and I like the multiple homescreen thing. Though I couldn't do a lot of things with it because for most things it needed a data connection (I didn't plug in a SIM card) and USB/WiFi didn't work. Also it asked me to sign up for Google account all the time. On 6.5.3 on the other hand some things are quite better implemented, for example start menu or Sense. I also like it that you can reach all functions through your touch screen. On Android you're always forced to use the hard keys to close a window or get out of an app. After all I wonder if it's possible to hack into the taskbar or bottom bar like I do on WM but due to Java VM environment I doubt you can do that.
After all, right now there's no reason why I should switch to Android. However I don't know what the situation will be in the next 1-2 years. So in the end all I can say: On the longer run it might be the only OS able to replace 6.5.3 in the future but right now it's just too limited for my taste (in other words I can also say it doesn't give me enough features to forget about some limits). But I definitely keep an eye on it
vangrieg said:
Chrome Web Browser? A success? You must be kidding me. No, I'm not saying it's a bad product. But can you imagine how much money a promo campaign like Google did for Chrome, would cost a third party? So you spend billions of dollars (even though "virtual" in this case) and get absolutely laughable market share. Success?
YouTube they bought for a ridiculous amount of money, and it's a cash disposer. Yeah, we all enjoy it, no doubt about it. The more we enjoy it the more money Google coughs out on it. Windows Mobile is a bigger success than this.
Google Maps? You forgot Gmail. Some 90%+ of Google's income comes from its home page. Not even Adsense, which ads a few percentage points. So no, Google hasn't had a single success in any area apart from search, even though they've been trying to diversify like crazy because they are really scared of what may happen if they lose their search engine domination. The problem is, by doing all this free stuff everywhere about the only thing they achieve is that they technically cannot "fail". Sure, you don't set revenue targets, you just burn cash, what's a failure?
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+100
Thanks Vangrieg, you beat me to it
vangrieg said:
Chrome Web Browser? A success? You must be kidding me. No, I'm not saying it's a bad product. But can you imagine how much money a promo campaign like Google did for Chrome, would cost a third party? So you spend billions of dollars (even though "virtual" in this case) and get absolutely laughable market share. Success?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is success, even though the way to reach it is.... strange!?
But are Microsoft doing any better? They're just buying off companies if they need a new feature.
Google is buying new companies if they need a new feature - Android and YouTube are good examples. Microsoft isn't much better, but they have at least 2.5 sources of income - Windows, Office and Server/Tools. Now, that's a much better success because they sell that stuff. You have to be a complete loser to provide something that usually costs money for free, having a huge pile of cash and the world's largest web ad brokerage to not get a sizable market share. Yet Google does it all the time with Buzzes, Waves and all that acid-driven stuff that even tech savvy people rarely understand. And yeah, they'll muck up more than once with Android, the patent protection issue for OEMs is just the first bell that rang.
vangrieg said:
.. You have to be a complete loser to provide something that usually costs money for free ...
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xda-developers provide a lot of free stuff, are they losers too? I don't think so
XDA is not a business, we're here for fun. Oh, and one little nuance, XDA doesn't have 20 billion dollars to burn and can't put an ad on every freakin' web site out there.
Dukenukemx said:
Windows Mobile BAD
#1 Lots of problems with 3D acceleration support. Mainly due to OpenGL ES drivers.
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That's not a deficiency of Windows Mobile, it's a deficiency of phones manufactured by HTC. Users of the Toshiba TG01 and Acer neoTouch are very happy with their 3D support, and indeed with their hardware-accelerated video playback of virtually any codec and wrapper format.
vangrieg said:
Google is buying new companies if they need a new feature - Android and YouTube are good examples. Microsoft isn't much better, but they have at least 2.5 sources of income - Windows, Office and Server/Tools. Now, that's a much better success because they sell that stuff. You have to be a complete loser to provide something that usually costs money for free, having a huge pile of cash and the world's largest web ad brokerage to not get a sizable market share. Yet Google does it all the time with Buzzes, Waves and all that acid-driven stuff that even tech savvy people rarely understand. And yeah, they'll muck up more than once with Android, the patent protection issue for OEMs is just the first bell that rang.
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I don't understand it as well, but seems like it's working for them. Microsoft offer more products because they are around way longer. Google are only here for roughly 10 years. Look up what MS had to offer after 10 years of existence, which was in 1985.
Actually, if you carefully listen to what Google execs say, it's not working for them. They are very nervous. I agree that one of the key problems is that they just started to diversify. They are doing too many mistakes though which are relatively easy to avoid. It's actually a funny phenomenon you can often see in companies driven by engineers because they're so into technologies and inventions and such that they just can't resist pushing their cool new things out the door. Google is in fact a lot like Microsoft, only less mature and disciplined, in this regard. A contrast to this approach is Apple where hardly anyone ever sees a beta product, and the company is incredibly focused.
Apart from product development, there's one more thing where Google doesn't have a lot of experience, and that's partnering with others. Jobs once said that he absolutely admires Gates's abilities in this regard, saying that in fact, with all the spats, fan base animosity, tensions and all, Microsoft is the only long-term partner Apple has had through all these years, and the partnership works amazingly well for both parties. He even noted that MS is the second largest developer of software for Apple products after Apple. Google has a long way to learn how to maze through all these issues and make lasting relationships. It's one thing to attract everyone with a free product and give OEMs better bargaining position against Microsoft with a mobile OS, it's a totally different thing to carry it on to market leadership with so many conflicting interests and challenges.
Sure OEMs flirt with open source OSes, IBMs and HPs of the world are investing a lot of resources into Linux development and all, but at the end of the day which OS shows up as "recommended" on their web sites? Sure HTC is all about Android, Open Handset Alliance and all that PR stuff these days, but what does its CEO say when asked why HD2 was a WM device? "We have to take care of Windows Mobile first".
WhyBe said:
What happens when Android becomes the NEW Windows Mobile?
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This is not going to happen.
Contrary to what some people believe, "fragmentation" does not hurt Android much and it's not what made Windows Mobile die.
Windows Mobile died, because it got zero support from Microsoft over many years. There was no money and no developers. They could easily have made it competitive to the iPhone within a year. But they didn't. It took them one and a half years to even figure out what to do and end all the internal battles, which is an eternity in the mobile space.
Google stand behind their mobile OS and you can be sure that they will fix any problems that emerge. If fragmentation becomes too much of an issue, they'll fix it. If the UI gets outdated, they'll fix it. Microsoft didn't fix anything.
And aside from that, it will take Windows Phone 7 at least another year, to even become an option. Handsets must be launched, bugs will have to be fixed and the Marketplace has to be filled. Only then will it be competitive, if ever.
That's plenty of time before you can even consider Windows Phone 7, thus switching to Android now is not wasted money.
RAMMANN said:
I don't understand it as well, but seems like it's working for them. Microsoft offer more products because they are around way longer. Google are only here for roughly 10 years. Look up what MS had to offer after 10 years of existence, which was in 1985.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How can you compare this?
A lot of what Google has done the last 10 years is based on what MS and others made possible the first 10 years.
It's like saying that Ferrari has accomplished more then Ford because they have made better and faster cars the last 10 years then Ford did the first 10.
Ferrari might not have existed today if their wasn't someone that made engines and wheels before them.
Android is the first (open source) Linux OS that has been sold on a device. although you call it open source it's not more open the WM or iPhone.
Google is controlling the development of the OS and anyone can make applications for it.. whats the difference now between android, WM or iPhone? and witch one of them is most open source? all of them have the same. A company that develops the OS and developers making the apps.
I only see MS going less open source with WP7.
and to not having porn apps and other stuff on iPhone well jailbreak and you have it.
Now some will say you can't do anything without jailbraking an iphone. Well without Hard spl you are also kind of sucked on WM.
Android has already several updates and can't be run by all older devices.
WM also have a few updates but a wizard that is quite an old device can run WM 6.5.

Navigate from address in People?

Is there a way to activate some sort of Verbal Navigator by clicking a person's address in People?
In Android, if you click a person's address, it automatically opens Google Navigator and gives you a choice of written or verbal directions. From what I can tell in WM7, your only choice is written directions. Do they REALLY want me to try to drive and READ directions at the same time?
Is there a way to set up People so that clicking on addresses opens some sort of Navigator?
*PS, As I peruse WM7 for the first time I have to ask myself, what the heck to them so long to put this out? It is so basic and has almost no features at all.
Windows Phone 7 (and iOS for what its worth) do not have built in turn by turn directions. You'll get a list of directions, but its not full GPS capability (no rerouting, etc).
I'm sure it'll come to Bing maps eventually.
PG2G said:
Windows Phone 7 (and iOS for what its worth) do not have built in turn by turn directions. You'll get a list of directions, but its not full GPS capability (no rerouting, etc).
I'm sure it'll come to Bing maps eventually.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, so very lame. M$ makes everything difficult by committee. Google has had Maps/Navigation for years and M$ STILL can't figure it out? I'm taking this HTC Arrive back to the store tomorrow. What a colossal disappointment (however, having seen M$'s raving incompetence on Office, I should not have been surprised).
4 words:
Not.Ready.For.Primetime.
Bing had it in WM 6.5, it just hasn't made it over yet for 7. If it's important to you, yeah... you'd be better off moving on. There hasn't really been any rumors or anything about when that is coming. Of course, there haven't been many rumors about Bing upgrades at all, I'm sure they are at work though.
BTW, am I the only one that doesn't consider turn-by-turn directions a standard mobile OS feature? Of the current platforms out there, aren't Android and Symbian the only ones with this functionality built in?
mitchellvii said:
Wow, so very lame. M$ makes everything difficult by committee. Google has had Maps/Navigation for years and M$ STILL can't figure it out? I'm taking this HTC Arrive back to the store tomorrow. What a colossal disappointment (however, having seen M$'s raving incompetence on Office, I should not have been surprised).
4 words:
Not.Ready.For.Primetime.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WM6.5 had it before Android was the fad. MS just f'd up by not including it in WP7. Maybe in an update.
This sounds like another sour grapes thread to me.
If you didn't know what you were getting into with WP7, it is YOUR fault, not Microsoft's. It is unfortunate that so many do not take responsibility for themselves.
Having used Google and Bing, turn-by-turn, they work fine if you have a great data connection. Just don't try using them anywhere outside a metro area because they both stink the same.
Loaded maps is the only way to go for true navigation.
Erik Latranyi said:
This sounds like another sour grapes thread to me.
If you didn't know what you were getting into with WP7, it is YOUR fault, not Microsoft's. It is unfortunate that so many do not take responsibility for themselves.
Having used Google and Bing, turn-by-turn, they work fine if you have a great data connection. Just don't try using them anywhere outside a metro area because they both stink the same.
Loaded maps is the only way to go for true navigation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, "another sour grapes thread". You mean there are LOTS of these? Wonder why that is?
So what you are saying is that I should have mastered all of the nuances of WM7 BEFORE actually trying the device? I guess then the concept of "test-driving" is lost on you? Why test-drive a new car - you should have done your research and known exactly how it would perform before you get to the showroom?
My point is that the reason there are so many "sour grapes" threads is that WM7 is a massive fail. When M$ fails to include popular features from a previous release in a new release that is fail. When M$ makes no attempt whatsoever to offer competing features to their #1 competitor, that is fail. The fact that it took M$ FOREVER to come out with WM7 considering how thin and weak it is is epic fail.
Here we are in the day and age of "no texting while driving because it is so dangerous" and yet, M$ REMOVES the navigation feature which forces the users to take their eyes off the road? Epic, mind-boggling, godlike fail.
Like so many M$ "upgrades", WM7 is yet another experiment in not "how can we make this better?", but, "how can we break what works and add other features no one wants or needs?"
Sour grapes? Hell yes. I REALLY REALLY wanted to like this. I like the People/Calendar integration which Google sadly lacks. I like the simplicity of the interface as it makes "thumbs only navigation" much easier. But due to the sheer incompetence of M$, they have made this OS unusable for me. Yep, very very sour grapes. My only question is, when I hit a school bus full of kids because I was looking at the WRITTEN directions on my phone, can I sue M$ for gross negligence?
Anyway, phone goes back today. Unfortunate. Like I said, I really wanted to like this.
It'll come by the end of the year in the form of Ovi Maps which also allows you to store maps onto the device and use it without data connection.
Wait up, so lack of turn by turn navigation made you into the raging asshole you seem to be?
You ddin't bother checking out A to B navigation in the meantime?
You didn't bother using Sprints own Navigation?
Or is it the fact that you can't go from contacts address to navigation that's the problem?? Because your annoying responses madfe it seem like that was listed as feature and was eventually left out when that was not the case.
Get over your sense of entitlement back under your troll bridge.
I'm glad if we never see someone like you again on these forums.
It will come with a future update. MS already had turn by turn navigation with bing on wm 6.5, and now that they're working with nokia and their mapping data it will be even better.
until then use A to B
mitchellvii said:
So what you are saying is that I should have mastered all of the nuances of WM7 BEFORE actually trying the device? I guess then the concept of "test-driving" is lost on you? Why test-drive a new car - you should have done your research and known exactly how it would perform before you get to the showroom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is a very weak analogy (but you probably already knew that, didn't you?). You don't sign a contract to buy a new car and THEN take it out for a test drive. The test drive comes first. But that nuance aside, the notion that one should simply go into an auto dealership and blindly pick a car before determining whether or not it even offers features that are essential to that person, is just, well, silly. You don't buy a car and then later say, "wait, you mean it isn't 4-wheel drive?? EPIC FAIL!!" You ask the question FIRST. If turn-by-turn voice navigation is an essential feature for you, common sense would dictate that you would have asked if the phone supported it before buying.
mitchellvii said:
... massive fail... M$ fails ... M$ ... fail... M$ ... epic fail ... M$ ... Epic, mind-boggling, godlike fail ... M$ ... sheer incompetence of M$ ... M$ ...
Like I said, I really wanted to like this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why do have a really difficult time believing that statement? I just can't put my finger on it...
Enjoy your Android phone. Some of them are very nice.
On a side note, it truly irritates me when people refer to Microsoft as M$ or Micro$oft...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
FiyaFleye said:
On a side note, it truly irritates me when people refer to Microsoft as M$ or Micro$oft...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Worse yet is when some idiot calls it WM7. It's WP7. Is that so hard? Completely different line of devices...
says right in the highlights that gps navigation is enabled. I'm guessing that means that you can use sprint nav. Or are you one of those that doesn't want to pay for features, just complain when they are not there....
http://shop2.sprint.com/NASApp/onlinestore/Action/DisplayPhones?INTNAV=ATG:HE:Phones
nrfitchett4 said:
says right in the highlights that gps navigation is enabled. I'm guessing that means that you can use sprint nav. Or are you one of those that doesn't want to pay for features, just complain when they are not there....
http://shop2.sprint.com/NASApp/onlinestore/Action/DisplayPhones?INTNAV=ATG:HE:Phones
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd think so. Everyone nowadays wants everything for nothing.
mitchellvii said:
My point is that the reason there are so many "sour grapes" threads is that WM7 is a massive fail. When M$ fails to include popular features from a previous release in a new release that is fail. When M$ makes no attempt whatsoever to offer competing features to their #1 competitor, that is fail. The fact that it took M$ FOREVER to come out with WM7 considering how thin and weak it is is epic fail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is not a massive fail. It has grown faster than many other, much bigger ecosystems out there.
They didn't fail to include features from a previous version. There is no previous version of WP7. Sure, it's built on Windows CE, but it is not a continuation from WM6 or earlier.
Okay, so you are missing TTS navigation. What else? What makes WP7 thin, weak and an epic fail in your opinion? Sure, I can see holes in the OS myself, by what it does offer more than makes up for what it's missing IMO.
mitchellvii said:
Here we are in the day and age of "no texting while driving because it is so dangerous" and yet, M$ REMOVES the navigation feature which forces the users to take their eyes off the road? Epic, mind-boggling, godlike fail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not removed - it just isn't implemented at an OS level yet. There is nothing stopping you from installing an actual NAVIGATION app though.
Btw, writing M$ makes you look like a 3yr old.
mitchellvii said:
I like the People/Calendar integration which Google sadly lacks. I like the simplicity of the interface as it makes "thumbs only navigation" much easier. But due to the sheer incompetence of M$, they have made this OS unusable for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? The lack of TTS makes the whole phone unusable to you? If there were no third-party navigational tools available in the marketplace, sure, I could see where you were coming from, but really? It's too hard for you to install an app?
How about you crawl back under the rock you came from. Geez.

What makes WP7 so bad/behind?

I constantly read posts about "WP7 is so behind in features," yet I don't really see what's missing.
NoDo brought copy and paste, and managed to implement it in quite a functional way.
Mango is bringing a more developed task switcher and background agents. The freedom of Android isn't there, but the multitasking/dehydration implementation is at least as functional as that of iOS.
Mango wasn't originally going to support it, but ICS exists within Mango.
Where are the major missing features, exactly? The browser doesn't support Flash? Neither does iOS. Microsoft and Apple seem to want Flash to die, and Google is probably covertly on board with that.
Xbox Live integration works just as I'd expect it to. Office Mobile is perfectly functional.
Skype isn't available yet, but will ultimately exist in the form of a highly-integrated app. IM+ definitely is buggy at the moment, so WP7 needs to catch up for users of most IM clients.
Where's the big problem in WP7? It was certainly behind upon its release, but now it seems close to feature parity with the two major platforms.
I too don't understand where the THIS IS AWFUL posts come from. But there are definitely limitations. But look, there will be with any platform.
I personally want avi support, DLNA (I have Play To, but it only works with W7 desktop), HDMI out, and tethering. I'm not sure if Bell will support the tethering yet, but I hope they do.
I came from Windows Mobile, so a platform that -just works- is the most important feature to me. Wp7 owns in this category. My wife's iPhone locks up about once a week. Her display looks bland and old. I find wp7 just sleek and beautiful and it works. All the time. Exactly like it should.
As for others, who knows. The general public has never exactly been a beacon of intelligence.
pantsaregood said:
I constantly read posts about "WP7 is so behind in features," yet I don't really see what's missing.
NoDo brought copy and paste, and managed to implement it in quite a functional way.
Mango is bringing a more developed task switcher and background agents. The freedom of Android isn't there, but the multitasking/dehydration implementation is at least as functional as that of iOS.
Mango wasn't originally going to support it, but ICS exists within Mango.
Where are the major missing features, exactly? The browser doesn't support Flash? Neither does iOS. Microsoft and Apple seem to want Flash to die, and Google is probably covertly on board with that.
Xbox Live integration works just as I'd expect it to. Office Mobile is perfectly functional.
Skype isn't available yet, but will ultimately exist in the form of a highly-integrated app. IM+ definitely is buggy at the moment, so WP7 needs to catch up for users of most IM clients.
Where's the big problem in WP7? It was certainly behind upon its release, but now it seems close to feature parity with the two major platforms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well...in fact there were only a handful of features missing that I expect in a smartphone. The most used is turn by turn voice guided navigation. And I expected the Bing search to provide that function when I bought my HD7 on launch day.
You should have seen my reaction when I figured out, after searching and searching for the Bing nav, it actually didn't have it. I was dumbfounded. I literally believed MS was trying to pull a fast one with WP7. It actually took me a long time before I would believe MS didn't include the Bing nav they had in WinMo 6.5.
Beyond that mind boggling event, I knew about pretty much the rest of the common stuff that was missing. But I believed MS would quickly implement those features. That's what everyone on here and throughout the media world was saying.
WP7 has actually proven to be the exact opposite of what it was suppose to be.
Turn by Turn in Mango is annoying, given it expects you to tap after every direction, but I don't understand how it is a valid complaint.
"There's an app for that" is always a valid fix for Android and iOS. Why is it that, when applied to WP7, that it makes the platform horrible?
iphone & android had the same problem when they first launched...took them a few years for the OS to mature.
WP7 is only about a yr old....practically still a baby and it almost matured to the level of the aging droid & iphone. Give it time...it will be on par or surpass them.
I can see four major problems why a lot of the general public will pass up on WP7
1. there aren't enough apps
2. apps are pricey
3. mango still isn't here
4. hardware is just not on the same level as the android flagships (and may not be with the upcoming iPhone)
for 1-3, you could argue that these things will get better but how reasonable is it to ask your customer who wants a phone now to buy something incomplete and wait for the updates that will eventually come?
and while WP7 runs really well on last gen hardware, many people just want what's best.. best processor, best screen without really understanding what the benefits are..
For me personally, I love WP7 but really don't like the lack of flash support (can't watch iPlayer which you can on iOS and Android) and the fact that navigation is pretty useless.
pantsaregood said:
Turn by Turn in Mango is annoying, given it expects you to tap after every direction, but I don't understand how it is a valid complaint.
"There's an app for that" is always a valid fix for Android and iOS. Why is it that, when applied to WP7, that it makes the platform horrible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Basically, for myself...and a lot of others as well...when you expect something about a product and it doesn't turn out, it pisses us off.
I and many others who kept up with the media presentation of WP7 news long before WP7 was launched expected it to be MS's "iPhone". What that means is, MS would release a mobile OS that was as good and reliable as iOS and MS would take full and complete control of it for updating and implementation...just like Apple with their iPhone. And this is incredibly significant because it was understood and rationalized that this would alleviate all of the updating issues with all handsets on all carriers. MS would set the specs for the handset makers to strictly adhere to and MS would develop all of the software and updates for all of those handsets.
The fact that the launch phones are identical in "system" hardware further reinforced the understanding that MS would be controlling WP7 exclusively. I and others believed it. And this is what was flooding the media sites.
Everything that was believed about WP7 in the beginning has turned out to be false in reality. MS dared to release a featureless smartphone and then completely backtracked on all it was understood they would do with it. Many, many were burned by MS. I don't expect a damn thing from MS till I see it in reality. I felt like MS was loaded with a bunch of arrogant, lying, lazy bums who would say anything to get what they wanted.
I personally think that the only place Windows Phone is really behind is hardware. For the average user, the software is there as of Mango, but there are so many better hardware choices out there, that no matter how good the software is, it fails to lure in customers.
IMO I think that the main problem is that WP currently misses some simple features, that are included in almost 80% of "dumb" phones.
For example, there is no way to set a custom ringtone for calls/sms (i'm talking about official releases, and by that i mean NoDo), no way to add new accent colors for live tiles, only 2 themes (dark/light), wallpaper only available on lock screen, no save contact to sim card, no bluetooth file transfer, etc.
I think that those things are producing a lot of discomfort for some users, who previously had some other smartphone (iOS, Android...) and therefore they get annoyed when using WP7 device. As it is a new platform, these things will be surely dealt with in future and I think that's nothing to worry about. After all, think this way. If MS wants WP7 to survive on the market, they have to step up to Android and iOS in any way possible and as soon as possible.
I hope that some of those things will not be anymore on to-do list when Mango comes out! So, let's see what Mango has to offer!
MartyLK said:
WP7 has actually proven to be the exact opposite of what it was suppose to be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty certain MS didn't make it this way on accident. It was very intentional.
toza said:
IMO I think that the main problem is that WP currently misses some simple features, that are included in almost 80% of "dumb" phones. )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree! The first thing people notice when given my phone to play with are the few accent colors to choose from. For me personally, only 3 of them even come into consideration, but I can live with that...What really annoys me is the missing compass-integration into bing maps, even android 1.6 had that as I remember. Every time when I'm in cologne and get lost once again, I have to check the direction I'm actually heading to (by usually walking the wrong way).
Damnzel said:
I agree! The first thing people notice when given my phone to play with are the few accent colors to choose from...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes! That is what I'm talking about. Everyone first asks about simple things when they tryout the phone. To be more precise, everyone expects from a ~200$ phone to have those simple things integrated by default, and when they try WP, the first thing they notice is that those features are missing, and then come the problems.
No advance feature can "shine" when the simple ones are missing
There used to be a saying: "Details make great things, but they can also destroy them."
toza said:
Yes! That is what I'm talking about. Everyone first asks about simple things when they tryout the phone. To be more precise, everyone expects from a ~200$ phone to have those simple things integrated by default, and when they try WP, the first thing they notice is that those features are missing, and then come the problems.
No advance feature can "shine" when the simple ones are missing
There used to be a saying: "Details make great things, but they can also destroy them."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
Nobody would expect a modern car to be without an air conditioner or or any of the other common features. Anyone buying a smartphone these days expects the smartphone maker to compete with the other companies who are selling their smartphones filled to the brim with features. For a company to even dare to introduce a smartphone that is ass-backwards on features (has none of the common ones), is a slap in the face of everyone. For that company to expect no complaints is like burying their heads in the sand and shunning reality.
you can get the accent color if you hack it...you know like most of the android users do to their phone.
I don't know how many times it's been stated that the TBT GPS is the way it is because of Licensing issues. Yeah it sucks, get over it. Why did Bing Nav for WinMo have it? MS must of had the license to use it, but it has since expired. Read up on how licensing works. Also, 3rd party apps count too & they exist. Like has been said, how come it's such a big deal for WP7, but with iOS/Android, "there's an app for that" is okay? Enough with this double standard. As for customizing, it's possible with "hacking." BTW, far more do it than XDA'er like to admit, a lot more. It's pretty commonplace. Most people, if they can't figure it out on their own will get a techy friend to do it for them. BTW, there's 4+ Mil XDA members. That's a pretty large # of hackers/lurkers/etc. looking for a way to tweak their devices nevermind the "guests" that never join or all the other sites. Ok, done & out...
drkfngthdragnlrd said:
I don't know how many times it's been stated that the TBT GPS is the way it is because of Licensing issues. Yeah it sucks, get over it. Why did Bing Nav for WinMo have it? MS must of had the license to use it, but it has since expired. Read up on how licensing works. Also, 3rd party apps count too & they exist. Like has been said, how come it's such a big deal for WP7, but with iOS/Android, "there's an app for that" is okay? Enough with this double standard. As for customizing, it's possible with "hacking." BTW, far more do it than XDA'er like to admit, a lot more. It's pretty commonplace. Most people, if they can't figure it out on their own will get a techy friend to do it for them. BTW, there's 4+ Mil XDA members. That's a pretty large # of hackers/lurkers/etc. looking for a way to tweak their devices nevermind the "guests" that never join or all the other sites. Ok, done & out...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WP7 didn't have turn by turn voice nav when it was released because WP7 couldn't do turn by turn voice nav. It wasn't capable.
Who exactly would MS get their Bing nav license from?
MartyLK said:
WP7 didn't have turn by turn voice nav when it was released because WP7 couldn't do turn by turn voice nav. It wasn't capable.
Who exactly would MS get their Bing nav license from?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It did, Garmin Streetpilot was/is available in NoDo. There were/are various other marketplace apps for TBT Navigation. "There's an app for that," enough said.
Who, no clue, but many have stated this in multiple threads. I'll look into this more later. Admittedly I am going by what has been said, so I will investigate this on my own & see what I can find.
drkfngthdragnlrd said:
It did, Garmin Streetpilot was/is available in NoDo. There were/are various other marketplace apps for TBT Navigation. "There's an app for that," enough said.
Who, no clue, but many have stated this in multiple threads. I'll look into this more later. Admittedly I am going by what has been said, so I will investigate this on my own & see what I can find.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When was NoDo released?
What's missing?
Users , plus the other stuff they mentioned.
sure haven't said:
I too don't understand where the THIS IS AWFUL posts come from. But there are definitely limitations. But look, there will be with any platform.
I personally want avi support, DLNA (I have Play To, but it only works with W7 desktop), HDMI out, and tethering. I'm not sure if Bell will support the tethering yet, but I hope they do.
I came from Windows Mobile, so a platform that -just works- is the most important feature to me. Wp7 owns in this category. My wife's iPhone locks up about once a week. Her display looks bland and old. I find wp7 just sleek and beautiful and it works. All the time. Exactly like it should.
As for others, who knows. The general public has never exactly been a beacon of intelligence.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm glad someone else notices how much iPhones lock up. They have a lot of problems that seem to go unnoticed. Unresponsive apps, random reboots, lag, etc.

Dammit MS, make good ads and penatrate the market

Mango is enough to compete well against other major platforms. But I personally believe they need to market more. Android didn't quite get popular even with good updates and a handful of devices. But it wasn't until the DROID ad that it started to penetrate the market. Everything is solid, and it even beats Android in customer satisfaction(57 %) but the scary fact is, it still lack brand awareness.
The youtube channel and the videos produced are excellent in showing off its elegance and unique features but they fail to present it on TV, Billboards, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/user/windowsphone
C'mon Microsoft! You got everything, now use some marketing skills to get your brand out and market share up!
maybe the one thing they don't have is marketing skills?
Aerik said:
Mango is enough to compete well against other major platforms. But I personally believe they need to market more. Android didn't quite get popular even with good updates and a handful of devices. But it wasn't until the DROID ad that it started to penetrate the market. Everything is solid, and it even beats Android in customer satisfaction(57 %) but the scary fact is, it still lack brand awareness.
The youtube channel and the videos produced are excellent in showing off its elegance and unique features but they fail to present it on TV, Billboards, etc.
C'mon Microsoft! You got everything, now use your marketing skills to get your brand out and market share up!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, we'll see how currently complete mango is with general smartphone users.
Here's a test:
I live in a city and just bought a Windows Phone. Cool!
Once I'm done class, I've got to visit a museum in the core of the city. Should be fun. Let's get some directions.
Current Location ->to-> Royal Ontario Museum
Cool, it's showing me driving directions. I'm not driving there.
Where are the public transit directions? I live in a city, where the hell are my public transit directions?
No public transit directions.
So I call my friend asking them if their smartphone has transit directions. Yep, their iphone and android are hooked up to google maps. So I visit the app marketplace to download google maps. But I can't. So I visit the google maps website on IE, but google maps is banned on windows phone devices.
So I look for an alternative maps app on the marketplace - one that has transit. But there are none for my area.
-
Seriously, recommending a windows phone is hard once people tell you they need their smartphone to "do what my current smartphone does."
Because lots of people need things like public transit directions, for example. I mean, a huge market for smartphone users lies in metropolitan cities.
Bing Maps, and the Windows phone as a result:
1) doesnt support public transit, and
2) is highly unsupported outside of the US.
I love the windows phone OS, but MS is taking their time, and until they catch up, the phone simply doesn't provide a number of critical features. Not 'fluff' features, but important make-or-break features.
I'm aware Nokia Maps is 'coming'. But until it has, and until it proves itself to be comparable to google maps, users switching from other smartphones to Mango will feel like they're downgrading in some areas.
Users who switch from android to iOS, and iOS to android, don't feel that - they get, at the very least, basic critical map and navigation functions thanks to partnerships with google. MS's obsession with the underdeveloped BING service is hurting the windows phone (and imo will hurt Windows 8 as well) since you're forced to using bing within the OS whether you want to or not).
google maps does not an OS make - or break. There are other things that make WP7 worthwhile, like local scout, Zune, Xbox, Office. Each platform has their pluses and minuses, none of them was born complete.
If I wanted to control my Xbox from an iphone or android I couldnt but could on WP7 (when the app is released), does that make those OS's less functional to their owners?
And really, continually bringing up the lack of google applications on WP7 is pointless, why not ask google why they block WP7 users from their services? MS just released Hotmail for android, why isnt google as considerate of their services USERS and provide their services to all smartphone platforms, rather than try and punish users of WP7? Gits.
ammarmalik said:
maybe the one thing they don't have is marketing skills?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But I so would've bought windows after seeing this advertisement:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sforhbLiwLA&feature=related
And let's be frank everyone else would after seeing Ballmer's performance. More iconic than developers developers DEVELOPERS
efjay said:
google maps does not an OS make - or break. There are other things that make WP7 worthwhile, like local scout, Zune, Xbox, Office. Each platform has their pluses and minuses, none of them was born complete.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Local scout, only works as advertised in the US.
You also have to change all your settings to US on your phone in order to perform bing map searches outside of NA and UK. Pretty user friendly.
If I wanted to control my Xbox from an iphone or android I couldnt but could on WP7 (when the app is released), does that make those OS's less functional to their owners?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Xbox Live functionality is not a 'critical' feature I was referring to. I'm talking about things like transit directions, worldwide map search support, audio file support, email inbox search, etc.
Also, re: "(when the app is released)" - my understanding is people don't buy phones based on what apps it may have 6-12 months from now.
Can we NOT turn this into a bash wp7 thread like the countless others and actually discuss how MS could improve their marketing stratergy?
They hired Brandon Foy who did the gorgeous wp7 fan video. They should have him do a flashy 30 second spot with the HTC Titan
madmaximillian said:
Yeah, we'll see how currently complete mango is with general smartphone users.
Here's a test:
I live in a city and just bought a Windows Phone. Cool!
Once I'm done class, I've got to visit a museum in the core of the city. Should be fun. Let's get some directions.
Current Location ->to-> Royal Ontario Museum
Cool, it's showing me driving directions. I'm not driving there.
Where are the public transit directions? I live in a city, where the hell are my public transit directions?
No public transit directions.
So I call my friend asking them if their smartphone has transit directions. Yep, their iphone and android are hooked up to google maps. So I visit the app marketplace to download google maps. But I can't. So I visit the google maps website on IE, but google maps is banned on windows phone devices.
So I look for an alternative maps app on the marketplace - one that has transit. But there are none for my area.
-
Seriously, recommending a windows phone is hard once people tell you they need their smartphone to "do what my current smartphone does."
Because lots of people need things like public transit directions, for example. I mean, a huge market for smartphone users lies in metropolitan cities.
Bing Maps, and the Windows phone as a result:
1) doesnt support public transit, and
2) is highly unsupported outside of the US.
I love the windows phone OS, but MS is taking their time, and until they catch up, the phone simply doesn't provide a number of critical features. Not 'fluff' features, but important make-or-break features.
I'm aware Nokia Maps is 'coming'. But until it has, and until it proves itself to be comparable to google maps, users switching from other smartphones to Mango will feel like they're downgrading in some areas.
Users who switch from android to iOS, and iOS to android, don't feel that - they get, at the very least, basic critical map and navigation functions thanks to partnerships with google. MS's obsession with the underdeveloped BING service is hurting the windows phone (and imo will hurt Windows 8 as well) since you're forced to using bing within the OS whether you want to or not).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really, if MS want to success in this world and earn big bucks, they have to look after the needs in different places instead of just in US.
Being international means the service has to be accessible from anywhere, and the information should be fully descriptive in any countries. (esp. the maps and search engines)
Google has invested vast amount of money in placing servers in different continents and gathering information for its international class services, e.g. mail, maps, search engines. Where are MS's efforts? I would like to see.
Smartphones do require a good infrastructure as a support. Apple and Android uses google services, and MS use Bing services. Is Bing services well structured? If not, should they either improve themselves straightaway or let people use other services temporarily?
---------- Post added at 12:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 AM ----------
sayonical said:
Can we NOT turn this into a bash wp7 thread like the countless others and actually discuss how MS could improve their marketing stratergy?
They hired Brandon Foy who did the gorgeous wp7 fan video. They should have him do a flashy 30 second spot with the HTC Titan
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Improving its service availability in the world is already their best marketing stratergy.
henry084 said:
Really, if MS want to success in this world and earn big bucks, they have to look after the needs in different places instead of just in US.
Being international means the service has to be accessible from anywhere, and the information should be fully descriptive in any countries. (esp. the maps and search engines)
Google has invested vast amount of money in placing servers in different continents and gathering information for its international class services, e.g. mail, maps, search engines. Where are MS's efforts? I would like to see.
Smartphones do require a good infrastructure as a support. Apple and Android uses google services, and MS use Bing services. Is Bing services well structured? If not, should they either improve themselves straightaway or let people use other services temporarily?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. MS seems to be pairing with Nokia for their maps service, but still Nokia has even worse international data. They have better maps, but MUCH worse directions, hardly any locations information, and Nokia software isn't linked to anything (such as your contact lists).
Google services are great because they link with each other, and are dependable and work anywhere. They are a crucial part of what makes today's smartphones 'smart' phones.
sayonical said:
Can we NOT turn this into a bash wp7 thread like the countless others and actually discuss how MS could improve their marketing stratergy?
They hired Brandon Foy who did the gorgeous wp7 fan video. They should have him do a flashy 30 second spot with the HTC Titan
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Word of mouth counts as marketing, in a way
Plus, if WP7 gets features that people are used to, people will be more inclined to switch. I know many poeple who know what WP7 is, but won't switch because it 'feels' to them like the first gen iphone. The iphone 1 was great, but you wouldn't switch from an iphone 4 or 3gs to one. And that's how people feel about the windows phone - it's cool, but it doesn't have the features that will make switching to it possible.
Madmaxmillian, I didn't know that. Thanks.
No problem
You're right, word of mouth is a form of marketing. I know because based on my word of mouth, 10 people have switched to WP and another 3 plan to do so, 9 of those are from Android, the others are from the Pre and feature phones.
But, since this is a marketing thread about what MS should do to gain more awareness of the OS (not sure how Android and iphone keep coming up in threads that have absolutely nothing to do with either of them) let's talk about that. I will however wager $20 that the normal handful of windows phone opponents will seek to make this anything but what the thread is about.
The stuff that Brandon Foy is doing is great in a hip, upbeat sense. But, it's far too busy for the average television commercial, at least in the U.S. It would behoove MS to have something that is more straightforward and to the point.
A series of spots showing various features of the phone. Show what's unique about the phone, UI, Live tiles, Hub Concept, Integration. Show this with "real people" in "real situations" using the phone's features.
A Voiceover as a girl sits in her room at her computer. She pops up and starts throwing on clothes.
VO: "A night out with a few friends."
She taps the Bing button and brings up Local Scout. She taps an event.
VO: "Bing Local Scout can help you finds great things to see, do, eat, and drink in any area. And, when you do, you can get in touch with the people who are important to you anywhere, anytime... on Facebook, Instant Messenger, and Text"
How about...?
Show the switch to text from Facebook
VO: "All in the same conversation without ever leaving the messaging hub."
Sounds great!
She steps out of the door of her urban apartment. It's night time. She doesn't walk but somehow moves down the street, the world around her blurs by at hyperspeed. The Phone is in constant view of the camera.
VO: "And, if you need to keep in touch with all the people who are important to you in one convenient place, you've got groups for that."
The Groups Tile shows a kaleidoscope of pics then flips to show "New Messages". She taps the Groups Hub on her phone that reads" The Crew/Guys" She scrolls through to show the people in her group then hits sms.
Text: On my way.
She stops. A dress in a store window with an expensive price tag catches her eye.
VO: "Something catch your eye? Let Bing Vision help you find what you want."
She uses Bing Vision on the tag to pull up a better deal elsewhere. She smiles. That's going to be her new dress.
Again she moves without walking, city lights strafing around her. Suddenly, the world seems to slow down and goes back to normal as she has arrived at her destination.
She opens the door and goes in and...
SURPRISE!!!
A large group of friends shower her with confetti as she enters. A great big smile, a laugh, and hugs.
"Windows Phone. Put People first."
Whatever. Something like that.
For non-US or countries that don't currently have access to Bing services there would be a showcasing of other features.
Also, you could have spots show off several features w/ voiceover and end with the voiceover saying:
VO: "Oh. And, apps... yeah we got those too."
You would then go from a TIGHT shot on the famous Wall of Apps to a quick PULL OUT and REVEAL of the thousands of apps the platform currently has.
Anyway... something along those lines or variations thereof. The main thing is to show WHAT the phone can do and what is unique about it.
madmaximillian said:
Agreed. MS seems to be pairing with Nokia for their maps service, but still Nokia has even worse international data. They have better maps, but MUCH worse directions, hardly any locations information, and Nokia software isn't linked to anything (such as your contact lists).
Google services are great because they link with each other, and are dependable and work anywhere. They are a crucial part of what makes today's smartphones 'smart' phones.
Word of mouth counts as marketing, in a way
Plus, if WP7 gets features that people are used to, people will be more inclined to switch. I know many poeple who know what WP7 is, but won't switch because it 'feels' to them like the first gen iphone. The iphone 1 was great, but you wouldn't switch from an iphone 4 or 3gs to one. And that's how people feel about the windows phone - it's cool, but it doesn't have the features that will make switching to it possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Better maps is already better than maps with limited information, now Bing maps is still rather empty in East Asia region. (They have just fixed the Japan ones recently.) I hope they can combine those two together to form a better one.
For me, like Mango which can filter your contact lists is already fine as far as I can filter out the phone list for use, since a smartphone is still a phone. I have my facebook acc, e-mail acc, and dial lists. I don't want to search things in a mixed pool as it is inefficient, also I don't want to reconstruct the whole list as the work is enormous. (Just imagine when you have 500 entries in your Facebook account, 200 entries in your e-mail/MSN account and 150 entries in your phone book, then you will know how painful it can be.)
---------- Post added at 12:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 PM ----------
Wyn6 said:
You're right, word of mouth is a form of marketing. I know because based on my word of mouth, 10 people have switched to WP and another 3 plan to do so, 9 of those are from Android, the others are from the Pre and feature phones.
But, since this is a marketing thread about what MS should do to gain more awareness of the OS (not sure how Android and iphone keep coming up in threads that have absolutely nothing to do with either of them) let's talk about that. I will however wager $20 that the normal handful of windows phone opponents will seek to make this anything but what the thread is about.
The stuff that Brandon Foy is doing is great in a hip, upbeat sense. But, it's far too busy for the average television commercial, at least in the U.S. It would behoove MS to have something that is more straightforward and to the point.
A series of spots showing various features of the phone. Show what's unique about the phone, UI, Live tiles, Hub Concept, Integration. Show this with "real people" in "real situations" using the phone's features.
A Voiceover as a girl sits in her room at her computer. She pops up and starts throwing on clothes.
VO: "A night out with a few friends."
She taps the Bing button and brings up Local Scout. She taps an event.
VO: "Bing Local Scout can help you finds great things to see, do, eat, and drink in any area. And, when you do, you can get in touch with the people who are important to you anywhere, anytime... on Facebook, Instant Messenger, and Text"
How about...?
Show the switch to text from Facebook
VO: "All in the same conversation without ever leaving the messaging hub."
Sounds great!
She steps out of the door of her urban apartment. It's night time. She doesn't walk but somehow moves down the street, the world around her blurs by at hyperspeed. The Phone is in constant view of the camera.
VO: "And, if you need to keep in touch with all the people who are important to you in one convenient place, you've got groups for that."
The Groups Tile shows a kaleidoscope of pics then flips to show "New Messages". She taps the Groups Hub on her phone that reads" The Crew/Guys" She scrolls through to show the people in her group then hits sms.
Text: On my way.
She stops. A dress in a store window with an expensive price tag catches her eye.
VO: "Something catch your eye? Let Bing Vision help you find what you want."
She uses Bing Vision on the tag to pull up a better deal elsewhere. She smiles. That's going to be her new dress.
Again she moves without walking, city lights strafing around her. Suddenly, the world seems to slow down and goes back to normal as she has arrived at her destination.
She opens the door and goes in and...
SURPRISE!!!
A large group of friends shower her with confetti as she enters. A great big smile, a laugh, and hugs.
"Windows Phone. Put People first."
Whatever. Something like that.
For non-US or countries that don't currently have access to Bing services there would be a showcasing of other features.
Also, you could have spots show off several features w/ voiceover and end with the voiceover saying:
VO: "Oh. And, apps... yeah we got those too."
You would then go from a TIGHT shot on the famous Wall of Apps to a quick PULL OUT and REVEAL of the thousands of apps the platform currently has.
Anyway... something along those lines or variations thereof. The main thing is to show WHAT the phone can do and what is unique about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can tell, without the backup of such services can be fatal to a smartphone, esp. when people are relying on maps and search engines nowadays. iOS and Android can success because of this. MS would fail if they are still limiting their services in US, and WP7 would be just an American pride, like the sports car Corvette.
I think what Microsoft really should rely on is the features that are directly built in Windows Phone. Sure, Android and iOS can do a lot, most definitely still more than WP7 can do. But they heavily depend on apps. You need apps for every single **** you wanna do with these devices. The out of the box experience is pretty low in my opinion. That's where WP7 makes the difference. And that's what Microsoft should show people.

(Another) Scathing WP7 Review

widely published articles like this don't help the platform, regardless of their accuracy. don't shoot the messenger.
~~~
(quote)
Goodbye, Nokia Lumia 800: £400 and one month on, it didn't work out
It's only when you live with a new phone that you discover whether you like it or not. From love at first sight, Nokia's new Windows Phone offering has turned out to be not so enthralling. Want to buy a used phone?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2011/dec/30/nokia-lumia-800-goodbye
~~~
from the article-
But Tell Me, Windows Phone's voice recognition app is hard-wired into Bing. Do a search in that mode and it won't use Google. As a result, I don't trust the answers and would revert back to keying in the query on Google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This (strange) comment really belies how biased this 'review' is. Toss this article into the heap of fanboy posts. How is this on the guardian website, are they stooping to link-bait articles?
What a dumb thing to say. Don't trust bing? Yeah its all a conspiracy out to brainwash you
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
karan1203 said:
What a dumb thing to say. Don't trust bing? Yeah its all a conspiracy out to brainwash you
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed...how someone could say they trust Google over Bing is beyond me.
This is just one guys oppinion, those Luminas sold, a buch of people went out and got them and swear by them. I am a Windows fan no dout but he failed to point out what really makes WP not all that great like WM. Sure Windows Phone is better than WM in the sense that it doesn't freez up as much and it is more pretty but WM gave the user more choices and the ability to actually do useful stuff on it. I agree that Zune sucks ass and don't understand why MS went the iPhone route on it with it's lame limitations, I mean come on; are you [email protected] me, you can't even send or receive MMS message that include Audio/Video (Only pictures) my old crappy WM6.1 could do that and how along ago was that? Hopefuly people are right when they say to give it a chance because the OS is only 2 years old for Windows Phone sake if they really ever plan to make it in the long run. We will have to see what Tango or Apollo brings but quite frankly there is a reason why people write negative rviews about the phone, MS needs to start listening to people instead of telling what they can and can't do.
Is it a coincidence all the smartphone articles I see from the Guardian are negative? negative news = mass page hits from whomever you pissed off. My take...
(FWIW alot of the Guardian articles I have been linked to were RIM related, so I may only see one side of it. Lol)
karan1203 said:
What a dumb thing to say. Don't trust bing? Yeah its all a conspiracy out to brainwash you
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice spin. It was fairly obvious that when the author wrote about "trust" it is about accuracy and completeness of data. I don't trust Bing, because more often than not it delivers sub-par results, whether that is an address search, or a subject-matter query. I cannot rely on Bing to give me the results I need consistently, so I go back to Google every time.
Blacklac said:
Is it a coincidence all the smartphone articles I see from the Guardian are negative? negative news = mass page hits from whomever you pissed off. My take...
(FWIW alot of the Guardian articles I have been linked to were RIM related, so I may only see one side of it. Lol)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its the guardian
its complete crap. I have yet to read one article about anything worth mentioning from the guardian. It's like both the guardian and sun may as well be in tow for awful reporting and sensationalism
that's some wank article! - the shameful thing is some Steve Jobs' pet has written something that's shared over 1000 times combined on twitter and facebook!
Surely was written on a hung over morning or a drunken night. He is just a journalist. SEE what the actual TECHY people say - http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/why-i-dont-want-an-iphone-any-more-50006257/?tag=mncol;txt
Embiggens said:
from the article-
This (strange) comment really belies how biased this 'review' is. Toss this article into the heap of fanboy posts. How is this on the guardian website, are they stooping to link-bait articles?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hang on, this isn't odd behaviour at all. I'm the exact same way. Why?
Because again and again, Bing is wrong about stuff.
Map locations being the worst. We went to Ottawa over Christmas. I entered my sister's address into Bing maps, and it showed them as living downtown... about 30km away.
Google maps was correct, and I had to type in less info.
When I'm in my city, I go to Bing, and I type in something like "123 Cedar", it will return things like "Cedar Pine Resort" or "1-2-3 Lawn Care". Useless.
It also fails to come up with some simple results when searching for things, whereas Google seems to just know what you're looking for. Sorry, but Google is a superior product in every conceivable way. I love wp, but I never ever use Bing.
sure haven't said:
Hang on, this isn't odd behaviour at all. I'm the exact same way. Why?
Because again and again, Bing is wrong about stuff.
Map locations being the worst. We went to Ottawa over Christmas. I entered my sister's address into Bing maps, and it showed them as living downtown... about 30km away.
Google maps was correct, and I had to type in less info.
When I'm in my city, I go to Bing, and I type in something like "123 Cedar", it will return things like "Cedar Pine Resort" or "1-2-3 Lawn Care". Useless.
It also fails to come up with some simple results when searching for things, whereas Google seems to just know what you're looking for. Sorry, but Google is a superior product in every conceivable way. I love wp, but I never ever use Bing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the UK, specifically London, Bing maps is spot on, even on the inner streets of the city! Guardian's fanboy surely was in UK while reviewing the phone!
^ are your location settings correct?
Sent from my Nexus S
Embiggens said:
from the article-
This (strange) comment really belies how biased this 'review' is. Toss this article into the heap of fanboy posts. How is this on the guardian website, are they stooping to link-bait articles?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft's search engines are not their forte`. Even their WP7 Marketplace search engine is way sub-par and omits many results. It requires a user to be very specific about what they are trying to find. Google's search engine is Google's forte`. Google's whole business is centered on their search engine. It's natural that their search system would be better and more trustworthy.
Microsoft's forte` is the PC OS and they are world class with it. None others can compete with them...not even Apple. But Microsoft's Bing Maps and nav are better than Google's...in my opinion. And also WP7 is better than the best smartphone system, the iPhone. So Microsoft can compete in many ways. But the search engine is not one of them. They have some serious work to do to even approach Google's.
vetvito said:
^ are your location settings correct?
Sent from my Nexus S
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please go on
I think he's got some valid points. I can't believe the single global volume setting hasn't been fixed a year after launch (how hard can it be to have separate "media" volume setting for Zune and other apps). Likewise I too don't trust the accuracy of the Bing search and so have resorted to a Google tile pinned to my start screen.
It's too easy to dismiss this as a fanboy review (some of his complaints are personal/misguided [e.g. timer app being tombstoned means it hasn't been "Mango'ised"] and won't affect everyone) but I sympathise with his whole "lack of trust" issue because I went through the same exercise with an Android phone (battery draining for no reason, slow response/lag, difficulty accessing Android market) and it's no fun when you don't want to pick up and use that device you've forked over a good amount of your own money for. Everyone who is being dismissive of this review should bear that last point in mind - this guy wasn't sent a review unit but rather went and bought one with his own cash out of excitement. I think that should get him a little respite from the "fanboi" comments.
It took the reviewer 7 days, lots of googling to figure out that the "arrow" next to the artist is in fact a play button. That says it all really
RoboDad said:
Nice spin. It was fairly obvious that when the author wrote about "trust" it is about accuracy and completeness of data. I don't trust Bing, because more often than not it delivers sub-par results, whether that is an address search, or a subject-matter query. I cannot rely on Bing to give me the results I need consistently, so I go back to Google every time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol. Agree.
I found this part interesting:
It's actually the quality of the sound output that really lets the Lumia down. For one thing, you only have one volume setting so if you crank the volume up to full (as I have to in my car - or, OK, want to), the ringer ends up at full as well. So every time I unplug it from the car, I have to wind the volume back. That's ignoring the fact that the volume is insultingly quiet. I bought a headphone amplifier, which made a difference, but the resulting sound has little punch or verve, which I think is due to the Lumia, not the app. Something in that bundle of hardware and software is stripping the life out of the music and giving it a sort of pasty, Val Doonican-like quality. The Lumia does not, repeat not, turn your car into a banging urban clubland.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because it's been my #1 complaint with WP7 devices since they were released. Too many of them suffer from poor sound.
I need to look for a tear down of some WP7 devices to see what type media hardware these things have in them. The sound is not cute at all, and neither is the management of volume levels for different sound types (Media, RingTone, System, Notifications, etc.).
---------- Post added at 09:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 PM ----------
MartyLK said:
Microsoft's search engines are not their forte`. Even their WP7 Marketplace search engine is way sub-par and omits many results. It requires a user to be very specific about what they are trying to find. Google's search engine is Google's forte`. Google's whole business is centered on their search engine. It's natural that their search system would be better and more trustworthy.
Microsoft's forte` is the PC OS and they are world class with it. None others can compete with them...not even Apple. But Microsoft's Bing Maps and nav are better than Google's...in my opinion. And also WP7 is better than the best smartphone system, the iPhone. So Microsoft can compete in many ways. But the search engine is not one of them. They have some serious work to do to even approach Google's.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No offense, but Bing is not better than Google Maps and Navigation. Not even close.
However, we shall see what the Nokia deal does the strengthen that...
This guy made me laugh when trying to figure out how to use the zune media player. I mean it really is not that hard to use at all, even my 4 year old nephew can use it.
N8ter said:
Lol. Agree.
I found this part interesting:
Because it's been my #1 complaint with WP7 devices since they were released. Too many of them suffer from poor sound.
I need to look for a tear down of some WP7 devices to see what type media hardware these things have in them. The sound is not cute at all, and neither is the management of volume levels for different sound types (Media, RingTone, System, Notifications, etc.).
---------- Post added at 09:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 PM ----------
No offense, but Bing is not better than Google Maps and Navigation. Not even close.
However, we shall see what the Nokia deal does the strengthen that...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No offense taken. I did the tests and came to the conclusion Bing Maps is better...or was, at the time, about 3 or 4 months ago.
Zune is bad? I never had a problem with it. This guy was obviously reaching in order to fill up white space in a dry article. He makes one or 2 good points, the rest is just bull**** and he knows it.

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