Develop Bugs

Should i switch?

Right now i have a Blackberry Bold (9000) & i have had WM phones in the past...I have been looking at the new Tilt it i like the phone but i wanted to know a few things before i get it.
1. Will it be able to use the new WM7?
2. Is the phone any good when it comes to texting & emails?
3. What are the key features to this phone?
I have also saw that you can put Android on the phone. How does that run?
Sorry i just wanted to know a few things before jumping into the phone.
Thanks!

1. From what I've read, it will not be able to upgrade to Windows Mobile 7, but from what we've seen why would you want it anyway.
2. The keyboard is the best out there. Text and email is a breeze.
3. Best user community out there. Phone can do anything I need it to and if it can't someone will build something to enable it (Android for one)
4. Android is out there. I run it on my phone, but it is in it's infancy. check out rhodium android in the wiki to find what's working and what isn't.
I'm not an expert, just a regular guy that uses my phone for regular stuff. Good luck with your phone decision. Hope I was of some help.

jdotbakes said:
1. From what I've read, it will not be able to upgrade to Windows Mobile 7, but from what we've seen why would you want it anyway.
2. The keyboard is the best out there. Text and email is a breeze.
3. Best user community out there. Phone can do anything I need it to and if it can't someone will build something to enable it (Android for one)
4. Android is out there. I run it on my phone, but it is in it's infancy. check out rhodium android in the wiki to find what's working and what isn't.
I'm not an expert, just a regular guy that uses my phone for regular stuff. Good luck with your phone decision. Hope I was of some help.
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Thanks alot for the feedback.
I think i will be going back to a WM phone... I have one more question i forgot to ask...???
1. How is the App Store?

app store sucks but as you know there are tons of wm apps that are scattered everywhere on the net

The TP2 will not get an official WP7 upgrade. The phone's processor is too slow, wrong button layout, and no capacitive screen. WP7 requires a capacitive screen (multi-touch) and a 3 button layout (including a dedicated "Bing" search button) on the front of the phone, and MS is being very strict about these requirements. Somebody on XDA will cook something for the TP2, but don't expect anything official.
If you use your phone heavily for work, the TP2 has a great speakerphone. I love the feature of just turning the phone over, and it switches automatically to speaker phone (with a hardware mute button!). Also, the ability to tether is very useful, if you travel frequently.

I wouldn't even worry about the WP7. I highly doubt this thing will be that great right off the bat. I'm not even intrigued by most of it. I highly recommend the tilt2 and you know that if you ever have problems, you always have this forum to fall back on. So much customization is possible with this phone, and that extent of customization for the WP7 will not be available for quite a while after those phones start coming out.

I think the tp2 is awsome but since i know there are a few WM device coming out right around the corner with snapdragon processors I would probably wait on them unless u need to get a new device asap.

redpoint73 said:
Somebody on XDA will cook something for the TP2, but don't expect anything official.
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Do NOT base your decision on this or expect this. This will most likely not happen since it is a completely different OS and kernel and would require completely new drivers.
You might want to try one out before getting it. The processor in this phone is the same one that they used for the previous generation and that is just a higher clocked version of the processor used in the generation before. It is pretty slow and takes about 4 seconds to load a text message conversation. That is pretty slow for a bunch of text.
If the speed is acceptable, then its a pretty nice device.

petard said:
Do NOT base your decision on this or expect this. This will most likely not happen since it is a completely different OS and kernel and would require completely new drivers.
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Wasn't that the case when Android came along though? But, I do agree that even if wtfomgwm7sp7 ever does get ported to the TP2, it won't be a pretty picture, kinda like that kid at the birthday party who tried to stuff the entire piece of cake in his mouth at once
petard said:
If the speed is acceptable, then its a pretty nice device.
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Click to collapse
That actually sums it up quite well...the TP2 isn't quite the bleeding edge of whats available in smartphones today, but you just have to decide if that (minor) level of compromise is justified to you by getting the sweetest hardware keyboard there is, period.* For some it is, for some it isn't.
*pure, unqualified, unapologetic opinion

Sik96teG said:
I think the tp2 is awsome but since i know there are a few WM device coming out right around the corner with snapdragon processors I would probably wait on them unless u need to get a new device asap.
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Well what is ATT next HTC WM Phone coming out?

http://www.phonearena.com/htmls/AT-T-carrier-c_14_3.html

burtonsnow8 said:
http://www.phonearena.com/htmls/AT-T-carrier-c_14_3.html
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Well yeah but the only HTC phone is HTC Desire US and i like to have a full keyboard =/....
Well anyways i got the Tilt 2 = D

Am I the only one to think that WM7 will suck?

http://pocketnow.com/tech-news/mix10-microsoft-cuts-copy-paste-feature-from-windows-phone-7-series
http://pocketnow.com/tech-news/mix1...have-a-file-manager-nor-usb-mass-storage-mode
http://pocketnow.com/tech-news/microsoft-no-windows-mobile-compatibility-on-windows-phone-7-series
http://pocketnow.com/tech-news/mix10-windows-phone-7-series-apps-will-use-new-different-drm
Is it just me, or Windows Mobile 7 will SUCK big time? It seems to me, as far as i've been reading and searching the web that microsoft is following apples way with the iphone on the new upcoming os. Where have they lost their head? ???
I don't know about you folks, but in the near future i will be buying myself an HD2 with good old WM 6.x.x. Makes sense to me! spending so much on a phone, at least it has to let me copy and paste at my own will!

MS gone Apple
Looks like WinMo7 is MS's attempt to copy everything that make the iPhone suck. If I wanted an iPhone, I would have bought an iPhone. My next one will probably be an Android.

no as time goes on i start to think that more & more but im sure as soon as i see a new video on it im prolly gonna want it again

I'm glad to read this, that at least someone has the same thoughts as mine. I really don't think WP7 will be as successful as Android OS, BB OS or even iPhone OS.

FYI it appears copy and paste will be in the RTM or most likely added shortly after.
To be fair Microsoft is trying to cater to a less advanced audience then the typical XDA user, so in that sense it may do well. From the XDA perspective as long as it gets rooted/jailbreaked/whatever, that isn't terribly different then flashing a HSPL and a custom rom. My only dislike is the lack of storage card, hopefully they will let up on this issue. The SDK is only managed code, this makes programs in general less dangerous and quicker to develop. On the other hand you loose the nitty gritty features XDA users love. Though I imagine having the phone rooted makes both of those points moot. At least you are not one of the people yammering how they are jumping ship to xxxxxx. The OS isn't RTM yet and the gurus haven't touched let a lone disabled all the sandboxing on any WMS7 phones. I somehow doubt the current windows mobile users on here griping are using a stock rom.

Theres no way WP7S will suck! This thread is pretty much useless pointing out on things which others have pointed out in 100 of such threads!

johnlujl123 said:
I'm glad to read this, that at least someone has the same thoughts as mine. I really don't think WP7 will be as successful as Android OS, BB OS or even iPhone OS.
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well at the moment Android isn't very wide-spread! Windows Mobile still got a bigger marketshare. But Google is great in making people use their products so we'll see in two years who will be at the top: WP7 or Android.
iPhone what?

The major issue i see with WP7S is no removable storage.
When the system gets taken apart, all of the other features we are missing (task manager, file system access, multitasking etc) will get put back in by XDA.
But... no removable storage is a biggie...
The problem is... there will be no manufacturers making WP7S devices that have micro sd card slots. Why would they?

Ev0luti0n_ said:
Is it just me, or Windows Mobile 7 will SUCK big time?...
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Windows Mobile 7 did suck, that's why it got dropped for Windows Phone 7 Series
I believe eventually, Blackberry, iPhone and WP7 will be the top smartphone OS (in US) with Android going the way of WM with a small marketshare. Perhaps Android will catch WM one day now that WM was sent to pasture.
Any smartphone without a great ecosystem and super friendly OS will fail to compete with the "big boys"

I prefer not having my storage removable. I never take the card out of the phone anyway, and I hate having to decide where to put everything.
Do I put stuff on the card to preserve memory? Or in memory for speed?
If a phone ships with 8, 16 or 32GB of onboard memory, such concerns become moot, it's all one big lump of storage. This is probably why Microsoft haven't added the functionality to the Marketplace to put software onto the card - there won't BE a card in WP7S. Not only that, developers will be able to rely on the fact there'll be plenty of storage available for their games or whatever. Currently, as cards are optional, the only thing they can rely on is a couple hundred megs of RAM and that's it. So in the end I think this decision had to be made. Your average punter hates having to splash out on a memory card after spending £400-500 on a phone with virtually no storage. It is pretty silly. It would be like purchasing a laptop without a hard drive.
In any case, thus far at least, card storage capacities have not outstripped the onboard memory size of phones such as the iPhone. iPhone has 32GB on board, twice what my HD2 has.
Honestly, how many ordinary users do you think really want to faff around with memory cards? It's been nothing but a hassle for me.

Jim Coleman said:
Honestly, how many ordinary users do you think really want to faff around with memory cards? It's been nothing but a hassle for me.
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This is true... your average punter would think that removable storage is nothing but extra hassle.
However... when your phone goes tits up and you lose all of your files because you didnt have a backup, the advantage of removable storage becomes abundantly clear.
I for one would rather simply take my micro sd card out of the phone and place it directly into another device to get instantly up and running again.

Yes but it won't be an advantage with WP7 anyway as it won't have file system access and you won't be able to take programs installed on that card from one phone and simply plug it into another. So in WP7 as it is now storage cards are nothing but a hassle.

vangrieg said:
Yes but it won't be an advantage with WP7 anyway as it won't have file system access and you won't be able to take programs installed on that card from one phone and simply plug it into another. So in WP7 as it is now storage cards are nothing but a hassle.
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Ah... but you sort of missed the point of my first post....
what i am saying is.... eventually, WP7S will be taken apart and file system access would be possible. So would installing apps outside of the microsoft marketplace.
Therefore... removable storage becomes extremely useful once more,... but there would be no devices running wp7s that actually have micro sd slots.
Forget looking at wp7s as it is now (shockingly bad)... im looking towards the future somewhat...

I hope they put 32 and 64gb chips in phones and not all go with the 8gb minimum.

Kloc said:
I hope they put 32 and 64gb chips in phones and not all go with the 8gb minimum.
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At least one manufacturer will, just to stand out amidst the crowd.

Musicman247 said:
At least one manufacturer will, just to stand out amidst the crowd.
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Well let me go a little further. I hope HTC puts 32 or 64GB chips in a phone. I hope such phone has a slide out keyboard, and comes to TMO USA.

Audio Oblivion said:
what i am saying is.... eventually, WP7S will be taken apart and file system access would be possible. So would installing apps outside of the microsoft marketplace.
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No doubt about it, but you can't expect MS to cater to that, can you? Me, I will miss SD card if I do switch to WP7, but built-in flash has its benefits as well, it's faster, actually. I need to be able to copy files there though.

Kloc said:
Well let me go a little further. I hope HTC puts 32 or 64GB chips in a phone. I hope such phone has a slide out keyboard, and comes to TMO USA.
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Click to collapse
And it needs to be super thin.
AND, it needs to come to Sprint.

vangrieg; said:
No doubt about it, but you can't expect MS to cater to that, can you? Me, I will miss SD card if I do switch to WP7, but built-in flash has its benefits as well, it's faster, actually. I need to be able to copy files there though.
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Click to collapse
You should still be able to files to and from wp7s although it does not use any storage card. I do that with iPhone now and there's no reason to think it will be any different here.

You can do it on the iPhone after jailbreaking. Without it you can only transfer certain types via sync interfaces. And then you cannot choose which application will use those files.

Join the complaint to htc to have access to install apps to sd

i hope people will do this i think it will get a result.....
join the protest for htc to make us a way to install apps to SD there just not enough room i said to them its no good its what is really killin this device for me now its not fair its locked out what kind of crazy idea to miss this feature out from day one
1. complaint made in writing and voiced

It's nothing to do with HTC per se, it's inherent with the Android OS - something which Google have already acknowledged and is rumoured to be fixed in 2.2 (Froyo) which will be announced in about 10 days at the Google IO conference.

No need to do that , it all depends on Google. This is what I've got from HTC.
Hi, Thanks for your email. We're all looking forward to that... it seems that they have now said that it is 'coming soon' and they have closed the forum regarding this on their site, so at present, it is assumed that it is coming in 2.2. However, until they announce it, it is still speculation. best regards, Pete W HTC
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"Hi, Thanks for your email. We're all looking forward to that... it seems that they have now said that it is 'coming soon' and they have closed the forum regarding this on their site, so at present, it is assumed that it is coming in 2.2. However, until they announce it, it is still speculation. best regards, Pete W HTC "
Ok, nice... coming soon.... but how much time then untill HTC releases it with sense etc?

BUT, do we have any information that leads us to believe HTC will release Froyo for the Desire - I've not seen nor heard anything other than their commitment to support Flash 10.1 for the Desire in a future update?? As Flash 10.1 is natively supported in Froyo an OS update would kill two birds with one stone and supposedly remedy the Android fragmentation issue on all Desires. However a simple OTA update to Eclair could readily unlock Flash 10.1 without the need for a full OS update to replace Eclair with Froyo.

hija31 said:
No need to do that , it all depends on Google. This is what I've got from HTC.
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Not only on google, but on HTC too. HTC will get Froyo next month, and then its up on them if they will give upgrade to Desire.

So make a request to put Froyo ASAP, not for HTC to include a core feature to Google Android operating system. This thread is ridiculous

Great.... just found this and didnt realize there was a problem like this with the Desire... that really sux! especially as my Desire turns up at 10am this morning and my trusty HD which I can install 32Gb of apps if I so wanted has just sold on ebay!
Maybe I need to stop buying HTC devices.

The desire is selling like hotcakes - I suspect on a whole different scale to any HTC device before. That makes me optimistic that froyo will be available for the desire at some point. Until then, I'm sure a cooked nexus one Rom will be able to tide us over.

Geeba said:
Great.... just found this and didnt realize there was a problem like this with the Desire... that really sux! especially as my Desire turns up at 10am this morning and my trusty HD which I can install 32Gb of apps if I so wanted has just sold on ebay!
Maybe I need to stop buying HTC devices.
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Click to collapse
You do not seem to understand that it is not HTCs fault. This is an Android operating system limitation. So it is a "problem" with every single phone with the Desire.
I wrote "problem" because.. how much apps do you actually install?? I have about 50 apps installed and far from running out of my memory.
Also, of course you can stop whining and install a cutom ROM with A2SD (Apps To SD card).
Just to make it clear: Apps CAN store its data on SD card (like navigation apps storing maps etc) so most of the apps that require storage use SD card anyway. It's quicker that way.

I have to disagree, it's not an inherent problem with Android, but the fault of the handset maker. Android installs apps to the system memory - this is a fact. The manufacturer should provide adequate ROM memory for this.

That's a valid point. If HTC had simply put more memory in the device itself, accessible for apps and such, this would be a negligible issue.

personally, it will sure be handy but for me, I have ll the apps that i needed and my available space is still 113MB on my HTC Desire.

Ok, nice... coming soon.... but how much time then untill HTC releases it with sense etc?
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This is what I've got :
Until we get it, we simply don't know. It depends what changes in 2.2 and how that affects our Sense software and how much work is needed to get it working properly again. As a desire owner myself, i'm hoping it won't take as long as the Hero has (which i also own), and hoping that the 'defragmentation' that Google is supposedly doing will speed the process up in future. Best regards, Pete W HTC
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antz88c said:
personally, it will sure be handy but for me, I have ll the apps that i needed and my available space is still 113MB on my HTC Desire.
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Click to collapse
Wish I could say the same. I have 47 apps installed (including Navigon satnav, and 6 or 7 games) and I'm pretty much out of space. I'm reduced to making decisions on whether or not I can be bothered to try out a new game because it means uninstalling one that I already own... I also had to get rid of Google Earth, simply because I hardly used it and it took up so much space - however I would've loved to have kept it because it's nice to show off to people.

Ommadawn said:
That's a valid point. If HTC had simply put more memory in the device itself, accessible for apps and such, this would be a negligible issue.
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Click to collapse
In fact, despite this not being Google's fault (HTC's penny-pinching) they are still going to address the issue in Froyo, for the good of the users. I imagine they are doing this to avoid any further harm to the Android name. Whatever the reason, good on 'em.
I for one will be happy when Froyo is released, and if HTC don't get their arses in gear quick-smart with a Sense update then I will be rooting (if I haven't rooted by then already). I'm only waiting now because it seems VERY complicated compared to rooting the Dream which I had before, and also I don't really have the time to devote to it right now, or to having a potentially unstable phone/ROM. But I'm not that enamoured with HTC or Sense, so when I do eventually get hacked off, I will root.

I deffo need space as I have to leave off or keep swapping apps around and I only use ones I need to or have actual value.

Still not reached the memory limit but getting close. So i keep my fingers crossed for the update. I think both Google and HTC are doing their best all we need is a little patience.
Btw although navigation software puts the maps on the sd their memory footprint is very different. For example, both Navigon and Copilot will use over 15 mb whereas Sygic only uses 8 mb.

mornixuur said:
Still not reached the memory limit but getting close. So i keep my fingers crossed for the update. I think both Google and HTC are doing their best all we need is a little patience.
Btw although navigation software puts the maps on the sd their memory footprint is very different. For example, both Navigon and Copilot will use over 15 mb whereas Sygic only uses 8 mb.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's good to know mornixuur, and may help some people decide on a particular satnav, although I'm very happy with Navigon and won't be changing to save 7mb
I think you have to agree that it's pretty sad we're even having this conversation - why on earth should our decisions be based on a few megs when I have an 8GB class 6 microSD card in my phone which only cost me £11? I know that ROM memory is considerably faster and probably more expensive than SD cards, but really - how much would it've cost HTC (remembering they get huge volume discounts) to stick a 4 gig ROM chip in the phone? £5? £10? That way this issue would affect hardly anyone.
And it's not like people haven't complained about it before - every HTC Android phone has had the same problem, since the original Dream. You'd think they would learn! No, it's as I read on another thread somewhere - although HTC are more than capable of designing decent handsets, somewhere along the line the bean-counters get involved and decide to cut corners with cheap, inadequate components, such as not enough RAM (which was a problem with the Dream from the outset), crappy touchscreens (all HTC phones, except the latest Incredible), last generation processors (up until the HD2/N1/Desire/Incredible), cheap speakers, etc etc.
They buy huge quantities of the cheapest parts they can find and then use them until it's no longer viable and the competition has a significant technological lead for months (iPhone 3GS, Motorola Droid). I think it's planned obsolescence, as they release a new "must have" phone every 2 months, which in reality is only a very slight upgrade from the last. By the time a year has passed, you are looking at your HTC phone and comparing it to the 4 or 5 which have superceeded it, and you want a new one. Very clever, I must say.
The only time where they have cocked this up is in failing to release a high-end QWERTY keyboard Android phone in the last couple of years. I held off from upgrading my Dream for ages because of the lack of a decent one on the market (Droid/Milestone doesn't count because the keyboard was ****e).
Eventually I had to get something new because my nearly 2yr old Dream just couldn't play with the big boys any more, despite all the modding/hacks that the geniuses at XDA have provided (and I'm very grateful for).
Incidentally, I'm still waiting for a decent QWERTY to come out, whether that be the Droid 2/Nexus Enterprise Edition (with alleged better keyboard), or something from HTC or another manufacturer.
Anyway, rant over! I still love my Desire, it's the best thing I can get in this country at the moment!

No SD card access, No Swype?? Steve Balmer is sceretly working for Apple!

I mean c'mon!! some of the most elementary things that made WM great, Balmer is ripping out of our arms!
I'm starting to feel like if I'm going to get an HD7, I may as well just go get the iphone...& I HATE the iphone!

Are you an idiot? There is removable storage. Why do you need to access the SD?
As for Swype... the integrated keyboard in WP7 is brilliant, there's no need for it. We're not using Android here.

owenw said:
Are you an idiot? There is removable storage. Why do you need to access the SD?
As for Swype... the integrated keyboard in WP7 is brilliant, there's no need for it. We're not using Android here.
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Click to collapse
Actually, you must be the idiot! If you remove/change the SD card, you void the warrantee!
As for Swype, it was included on the HD2 & if I like that is my business! If it was available on 6.5 it should be easy enough to include on WP7. Why should I have to completely change the way I have been used to typing for almost a year?
Do your research before you throw the "idiot" term around, you end up looking like a bigger one than you accused me of being!

MadLinx said:
Actually, you must be the idiot! If you remove/change the SD card, you void the warrantee!
As for Swype, it was included on the HD2 & if I like that is my business! If it was available on 6.5 it should be easy enough to include on WP7. Why should I have to completely change the way I have been used to typing for almost a year?
Do your research before you throw the "idiot" term around, you end up looking like a bigger one than you accused me of being!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong again champ. You can remove the update the SD on Samsung devices. The warranty you are talking about is with the HD7, because you need to remove screws to get access to the SD Card. So why don't you do some researching?

walshieau said:
Wrong again champ. You can remove the update the SD on Samsung devices. The warranty you are talking about is with the HD7, because you need to remove screws to get access to the SD Card. So why don't you do some researching?
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I have Champ! thats why I was able to put you in your place about your statement!

MadLinx said:
I have Champ! thats why I was able to put you in your place about your statement!
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You obviously can't read then
They were never my statements
I was simply backing up the person who replied to you
As you are incorrect about the warranty. The USER REPLACEABLE SD Slots DON'T VOID the warranty. The HTC ones do.

MadLinx said:
I have Champ! thats why I was able to put you in your place about your statement!
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Furthermore, since MS wants to be Neo-Nazi like Apple now (you know the 3 buttons that made it "impossible" for the HD2 to use the WP7 OS) what MS should have done is make the ability to switch out SD cards a mandatory requirement as their precious 3 Buttons.
you still wanna tell me how much of a genius everybody @ MS is now??

walshieau said:
You obviously can't read then
They were never my statements
I was simply backing up the person who replied to you
As you are incorrect about the warranty. The USER REPLACEABLE SD Slots DON'T VOID the warranty. The HTC ones do.
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I probably read much better than you!
1. when I hit "quote" yours was the profile that came up.
2. that's fine if that's your opinion.
3. I am correct about the warrantee...on the HD7 which is my only WP7 device of interest. Again, it's MS's fault for not making the SD option mandatory.

owenw said:
Are you an idiot? There is removable storage. Why do you need to access the SD?
As for Swype... the integrated keyboard in WP7 is brilliant, there's no need for it. We're not using Android here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you better read this one:
Windows Phone 7 - The filesystem and how it is presented to the user
before call someone an idiot

Just left wondering if this couldnt be addressed in one of the 1,000,000,000 threads covering precisely the same topic?
As for swype, AFAIK it was never available on the HD2 that my carrier sold me... if it wasnt for a .CAB file of questionable legality, i would never have been able to try it. Or is this the problem? Locking the OS down removes all the "free" software we used to run?

mshagg said:
Just left wondering if this couldnt be addressed in one of the 1,000,000,000 threads covering precisely the same topic?
As for swype, AFAIK it was never available on the HD2 that my carrier sold me... if it wasnt for a .CAB file of questionable legality, i would never have been able to try it. Or is this the problem? Locking the OS down removes all the "free" software we used to run?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It WAS included on the OS my carrier sold me. As for being addressed on previous threads, I'm all for condensing. However, when I did a search my findings were lacking in this specific subject.
Perhaps there may be a better indexing system that can be developed to avoid these problems moving forward.

MrKaon said:
you better read this one:
Windows Phone 7 - The filesystem and how it is presented to the user
before call someone an idiot
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My response of idiot was in as a result of being accused of being one myself for making points that have been valid & accurate. In reading the post which you pointed me to from March of this year. Reading internal & SD memory as one isn't the problem here. Neither is having to hard reset in order to reconfigure with the new SD card. That post further supports my point about MS really missing the proverbial boat here.
Case in point, removing the HD7's SD card is possible but not without voiding the warrantee. This is not by MS mandate, but if MS is going to be so controlling of other aspects of WP7 why not make sure we the users can upgrade SD card size as WE feel necessary.
My HD2 came with a 16gb SD card, knowing that this would not be enough for ME I upgraded to a 32gb one. I currently have about 22gb of info on my card. If you don't, or don't understand why I have that much data that's fine it's not relevant.
My point simply is this, we all know that these devices are no longer phones...they are mini computers that have a phone in them. That being the case, it should be mandated by MS that we have the option to upgrade our memory on ALL devices not just some!

MadLinx said:
Case in point, removing the HD7's SD card is possible but not without voiding the warrantee.
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Not true:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=807900&page=13

According to what I've read and understand, replacing the card will wipe the system, like a hard reset, because the card is being used as internal memory. They say you can upgrade the card, but you have to start all over again...erasing all accumulated data and info on the device.
What I find ironic is, Balmer has stated the reason for this type of system is because MicroSD tech is very low quality, buggy and problematic. He says the quality and reliability consistency from one card to another varies. And yet MS adopts MicroSD tech for its internal storage on WP7 devices. [scratches head and rolls eyes]

Well Microsoft could of included internal NAND in it's hardware specs but that would of increased the costs of devices and price point is a huge milestone when you're competing against the iPhone.
The most sensible way of keeping costs down while still allowing manufacturers to offer a variety of storage configurations was to use microSDHC.
The point about quality and reliability is a valid one, read Bunnie's blog post if you havn't yet. The way to control this is to not provide the user the ability to access that storage, it is preinstalled in the device.
Some people like Samsung have still chosen to give the user that choice and I think more will over time.
It really isn't that strange.

Oh my god, this is way too funny! Both of you seem pretty ill informed, the WP7 keyboard is perfect but a lot of people still want to use swype. Anyways all I can say is that only the Samsung devices have SD card support and even then it is god awful. You have to format the device to expand the memory? Lol. Anyway, the OS has 10x more freedom than iOS, mainly because it has more access to the hardware. The OS has a lot of downsides and I think its biggest is the lack of developer support, however that should change very soon. Oh, by the way, I hammered this all down on the WP7 keyboard.

JEEtoP said:
Well Microsoft could of included internal NAND in it's hardware specs but that would of increased the costs of devices and price point is a huge milestone when you're competing against the iPhone.
The most sensible way of keeping costs down while still allowing manufacturers to offer a variety of storage configurations was to use microSDHC.
The point about quality and reliability is a valid one, read Bunnie's blog post if you havn't yet. The way to control this is to not provide the user the ability to access that storage, it is preinstalled in the device.
Some people like Samsung have still chosen to give the user that choice and I think more will over time.
It really isn't that strange.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And I could have lived with this if HTC used a 32gb card instead of a 16gb, or at least given us a choice between the two...bad decision making. So much for "HTC Quietly Brilliant" SMH

Smokexz said:
Oh my god, this is way too funny! Both of you seem pretty ill informed, the WP7 keyboard is perfect but a lot of people still want to use swype. Anyways all I can say is that only the Samsung devices have SD card support and even then it is god awful. You have to format the device to expand the memory? Lol. Anyway, the OS has 10x more freedom than iOS, mainly because it has more access to the hardware. The OS has a lot of downsides and I think its biggest is the lack of developer support, however that should change very soon. Oh, by the way, I hammered this all down on the WP7 keyboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In regard to the keyboard, It's all about choice. While the WP7 keyboard is perfect to you, Swype is perfect for me. We should have both.
That's what made 6.5 so great. It's a shame that we probably won't see much more support or development for it.

MartyLK said:
According to what I've read and understand, replacing the card will wipe the system, like a hard reset, because the card is being used as internal memory. They say you can upgrade the card, but you have to start all over again...erasing all accumulated data and info on the device.
What I find ironic is, Balmer has stated the reason for this type of system is because MicroSD tech is very low quality, buggy and problematic. He says the quality and reliability consistency from one card to another varies. And yet MS adopts MicroSD tech for its internal storage on WP7 devices. [scratches head and rolls eyes]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly! I said it jokingly, but sometimes it does seem like an Apple double agent.

MadLinx said:
And I could have lived with this if HTC used a 32gb card instead of a 16gb, or at least given us a choice between the two...bad decision making. So much for "HTC Quietly Brilliant" SMH
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I agree, not just HTC but across the board there was a surprising lack of storage space with the launch handsets.
I'd guess it had something to do with cost-cutting as well as availability of Class 4 32GB cards. The only vendor manufacturing them as far as I can remember is Kingston and they don't seem to be that well stocked.
Oh well, by tomorrow morning my HD7 will be packin' 32GB and my smartphone will be set for the next 18 months

So....

Ok here goes..
I've been using HTC devices since the days of the SPV E100.
Every phone I've had has been Windows mobile based.
Now I am thinking about getting WM7 phone but the hardware is just not quite right.
I managed to get a hold and play with a demo Mozart.
At the moment The mozart is fave because it fits snug in my palm and the camera is 8MP. But that is all. There are some bits I want before jumping in.
Processor ...Check
8 mp Camera ... check
Wifi N.. Check
Micro sd.....Errr if you feel like voiding your warranty
Hdmi out... Nope
FM in/out... Nope
OK now for question time.
Has anyone got a conversion chart to show how much space 1 min/ 5 min /10 mins of 720 video takes up on a Mozart?
Does WM7 switch to a removable storage mode like the old windows?

djfuego said:
Ok here goes..
I've been using HTC devices since the days of the SPV E100.
Every phone I've had has been Windows mobile based.
Now I am thinking about getting WM7 phone but the hardware is just not quite right.
I managed to get a hold and play with a demo Mozart.
At the moment The mozart is fave because it fits snug in my palm and the camera is 8MP. But that is all. There are some bits I want before jumping in.
Processor ...Check
8 mp Camera ... check
Wifi N.. Check
Micro sd.....Errr if you feel like voiding your warranty
Hdmi out... Nope
FM in/out... Nope
OK now for question time.
Has anyone got a conversion chart to show how much space 1 min/ 5 min /10 mins of 720 video takes up on a Mozart?
Does WM7 switch to a removable storage mode like the old windows?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can only answer the last question .
wp7 sees all the storage as one big drive (rom+sd) so lets say "512 MB rom + 16GB sd = 16.5GB of storage (we don't know where it is stored )
and remember ! , you can not swap the sd card and use the DATA on it after swapping.

fm in/out? do you mean an fm receiver? if so, it has one. but no, it cannot act as an fm transmitter.

Cheers
The Gate Keeper said:
fm in/out? do you mean an fm receiver? if so, it has one. but no, it cannot act as an fm transmitter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So it does have an FM radio receiver that works on the phone?
I'm looking for wm7 phone with similar features as My old Touch Diamond.

djfuego said:
So it does have an FM radio receiver that works on the phone?
I'm looking for wm7 phone with similar features as My old Touch Diamond.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it has fm radio

djfuego said:
So it does have an FM radio receiver that works on the phone?
I'm looking for wm7 phone with similar features as My old Touch Diamond.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it does but for some reason it only works with uneven frequencies. 105,1 105,3 105,5 etc. Unless I'm missing something obvious.

i got it working for frequency 103.2, so i don't think there is an issue with it.

The Gate Keeper said:
i got it working for frequency 103.2, so i don't think there is an issue with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah it was something obvious. I noticed that there was an option to change from North America to World in settings and now I can access a lot more radio channels.

ceesheim said:
I can only answer the last question .
wp7 sees all the storage as one big drive (rom+sd) so lets say "512 MB rom + 16GB sd = 16.5GB of storage (we don't know where it is stored )
and remember ! , you can not swap the sd card and use the DATA on it after swapping.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This seems counter intuitive. Is there any legitimate reason for this?

ms simply does not allow swapping memory cards for "security reasons" and would like you to use their cloud. which provides you with 25GB(?) of additional storage. for that matter there is simply no need for more storage unless you want to beat the upcoming iPhone 5 with 64GB build in. who needs that?
the internal storag card is somehow "glued" to the device. so even if you find it its just not worth the hassle. for a big upgrade it might be worth to void the warranty, but not for a daily swapping.

nehvada said:
ms simply does not allow swapping memory cards for "security reasons" and would like you to use their cloud. which provides you with 25GB(?) of additional storage. for that matter there is simply no need for more storage unless you want to beat the upcoming iPhone 5 with 64GB build in. who needs that?
the internal storag card is somehow "glued" to the device. so even if you find it its just not worth the hassle. for a big upgrade it might be worth to void the warranty, but not for a daily swapping.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WEll Im not a fan of the cloud, I prefer direct control over my own data. I feel the cloud is bad for data security and integrity. I do not see how a removable storage device is less secure than some random servers that could be located anywhere. And with my current phone I have the option to use "The Cloud" or my Sd cards or both. Why would anyone think it is beneficial for their options to be reduced? Why should I put my personal data into the hands of a complete stranger?

the argument behind the use of cloud over local storage is similar to the one of android vs windows phone.
basically, the reason they made the microSD cards not "hot swappable" is so that they can encrypt the whole card. this way, noone can just come around and take the card out of the phone and get all of it's contents.
in terms of cloud vs local storage and which is more secure, really, neither can be said to be completely secure if you're on the internet. that includes your phone. if your phone uses data, then it's not secure, that includes bluetooth. pretty much everything is hackable. though that is the worst case scenario. in terms of putting your information in strangers hands, you merely being on the internet is doing that. in the hands of google, microsoft, and any other service that tracks cookies, browser patterns, etc. so really, your information is everywhere.

Security is more than just whether your data is secure from hackers. It also keeps app developers' data safe from you. MS knows that they need good apps to sell the platform, and to get devs to put forth the effort they have to show that the platform won't allow the ease of piracy that Android users have become accustomed to. Yes, it is a tradeoff, and it might not be for you, but I do not see that changing anytime soon, so if you wanna go WP7, that's what you're looking at.
I have to admit that the idea really did not appeal to me in theory when I first heard it. No one likes the idea of giving up a freedom. However, after using my Focus for a while, I have found that, for me at least, it is far outweighed by the positive changes.
That being said, the last thing this forum needs is yet another thread devolving into a nonremovable storage bashing session vs. WP7 fanboy argument, so I'm just gonna suggest that you really honestly try out 7 before nailing it over a point or two. It is a much larger change from 6.5 than can be really explained by a quick bullet point list, and really deserves to be approached with a fresh mindset. If it works out, awesome. If it doesn't, then that's just where you're at.

The Gate Keeper said:
the argument behind the use of cloud over local storage is similar to the one of android vs windows phone.
basically, the reason they made the microSD cards not "hot swappable" is so that they can encrypt the whole card. this way, noone can just come around and take the card out of the phone and get all of it's contents.
in terms of cloud vs local storage and which is more secure, really, neither can be said to be completely secure if you're on the internet. that includes your phone. if your phone uses data, then it's not secure, that includes bluetooth. pretty much everything is hackable. though that is the worst case scenario. in terms of putting your information in strangers hands, you merely being on the internet is doing that. in the hands of google, microsoft, and any other service that tracks cookies, browser patterns, etc. so really, your information is everywhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FL5 said:
Security is more than just whether your data is secure from hackers. It also keeps app developers' data safe from you. MS knows that they need good apps to sell the platform, and to get devs to put forth the effort they have to show that the platform won't allow the ease of piracy that Android users have become accustomed to. Yes, it is a tradeoff, and it might not be for you, but I do not see that changing anytime soon, so if you wanna go WP7, that's what you're looking at.
I have to admit that the idea really did not appeal to me in theory when I first heard it. No one likes the idea of giving up a freedom. However, after using my Focus for a while, I have found that, for me at least, it is far outweighed by the positive changes.
That being said, the last thing this forum needs is yet another thread devolving into a nonremovable storage bashing session vs. WP7 fanboy argument, so I'm just gonna suggest that you really honestly try out 7 before nailing it over a point or two. It is a much larger change from 6.5 than can be really explained by a quick bullet point list, and really deserves to be approached with a fresh mindset. If it works out, awesome. If it doesn't, then that's just where you're at.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure, if it ever gets ported to HD2 ill try it out , or ill have a look at my friends mozart , but aside from that even tho I still have my concerns I agree this is not the place for argument, and even though I only partly agree with the answers, they did give me somthing to think about and thanks for answering my questions.