Related
I'm fairly new to this forum, however have been a member of many other forums.
I find this forum quite interesting from the point of view that anyone who asks a question is in danger of being immediately flamed and potentially to the point of never returning.
I recently looked at a thread where someone asked a question that was answered somewhere else. Three members jumped on the bandwagon to flame to poor sod. Another member jumped in to defend the fact that people should be free to ask questions.
In the end, there were 12 replies to the question that, in that thread, was never actually answered.
12 posts just to discuss the relevance or appropriateness of the question that was not even answered.
Most forums I have been a member of have some very strict views on staying on topic. This reduces the flaming which seems to do more 'cluttering' damage that questions that have been already answered.
So if I have a question, I will STF only to find 42,000 topics on the same thing that don't actually answer anything, but discuss the "relevance or appropriateness of the question that was not even answered".
If the members, who should know better, stayed on topic then people would be able to readily identify the good threads more easily and not feel it nessesary to ask again... and again... and again.
So... Instead of flaming n00b questions that have allegedly been answered before, why don't the members of this forum look in the mirror and...
STAY ON TOPIC!!!
Note that I have posted this where I think this kind of discussion belongs... (i.e. not in any of the threads that actually deal with meaningfull discussions about phones).
Let the flames begin...
sounds like you are talking about the hermes wm6 forum... yes we know there is a problem... yes, we are working on it.. and there is already a thread for this.. so there was no reason to start another
BaggyG said:
I'm fairly new to this forum, however have been a member of many other forums.
I find this forum quite interesting from the point of few that anyone who asks a question is in danger of being immediately flamed and potentially to the point of never returning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
STFU noob.
ok, I jest... but seriously, it did reach breaking point and something had to give... fortunately it's unwinding itself now.
Also to be fair to long time members though, every time a new OS version is out, the place is flooded with n00bs that usually don't even take the time to look at the threads presend on the same damn page.
It's beyond lazy, it's just ignorant to expect people to wipe their arse for them even if the toilet roll is right there in front of them.
Sometimes help is warranted and they get flamed, but when upgrading these expensive devices, they should take the time to understand more about it
Perhaps we should have an aptitude test before allowing access to the forums hehe.
shogunmark said:
sounds like you are talking about the hermes wm6 forum... yes we know there is a problem... yes, we are working on it.. and there is already a thread for this.. so there was no reason to start another
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Gee... Hermes forum? How'd ya guess
I tried STF for a thread on this, but couldn't decide what to search on: n00b? Flame? Agro? Dummy spit? Ignorant?... So many choices
But okay... I've had my say so I'll pull my head in and get back to my life.
By the way... Great forum and wiki. Very helpful and informative.
Baggy
Same thing can be observed in the prophet forum too, lately. Once a new OS is out for the device the same questions are flooding over and over again. And it's surprising to see that the so called noobs who just started "annoying" the others are flaming the next generation of noobs who introduce themselves with the same kind of "new and unanswered" questions. The people are not stupid,but the are lazy a... I have the feeling that certain forums are laking of active moderators who maintain order when necessary.
While I think it's important to encourage all members (yes I've seen a few senior members asking things that have been previously discussed in the same thread) I think the whole attitude about it is wrong. There's really no need to get all pissy about it, and much less calling people "noob". Really someone that goes off on a noob rant can't have much of a life in my opinion. We are all busy -some more then others- and we really don't want to waste time answering redundant questions, but isn't going off on someone and calling them a noob an even worst usage of our valuable time? besides..... who really gives a rats ass about getting called a noob.
In closing, if you feel a noob is bothering you, ignore him and he might eventually get the point, or behave like a human beign and help the guy out. However, as BaggyG says don't turn the damn thread into a name calling fiasko. One 20 word post asking a question is not as irritating as a 500 word essay on the stupidness of noobs.
GAMBIT999 said:
Same thing can be observed in the prophet forum too, lately. Once a new OS is out for the device the same questions are flooding over and over again. And it's surprising to see that the so called noobs who just started "annoying" the others are flaming the next generation of noobs who introduce themselves with the same kind of "new and unanswered" questions. The people are not stupid,but the are lazy a... I have the feeling that certain forums are laking of active moderators who maintain order when necessary.
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since i dont frequent the prophet forum's and im not sure who our active mod(s) are for prophet, if you would let me know what threads need to be moderated i will be more than happy to flex my muscle in there.
and actually on that note....
If anyone see's anything anywhere on this board that needs to be moderated then please either report the post or shoot me a pm or any of the other mods and i will be more than happy to do what i think is necessary with the thread or posts.
shogunmark said:
If anyone see's anything anywhere on this board that needs to be moderated then please either report the post or shoot me a pm or any of the other mods and i will be more than happy to do what i think is necessary with the thread or posts.
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Just wondering if it would be possible to put an announcement or sticky on each forum identifying the mods for that particular forum.
Just a though...
Baggy
Damn. I saw the title and thought "Man, that'd be fun!" and everyone in here is complaining about it? (joking).
Seriously though it is a problem. But everyone here can do something about stopping it. I mean, if you know there is a solution to the question they asked and it's somewhere else in the forums, give them a link and tell them how to find these answers. If you don't know exactly where it is, tell them what forum to search. At the very least, say nothing. When people only read the last page of a thread it is very annoying but those are best ignored. There is absolutely no need to publicly flame someone and waste even more space on a thread.
I'm currently working on a bug tracking system for new roms so hopefully that will reduce a lot of these kind of questions by keeping answers with the questions and moderators and chef's being able to easily delete repeated posts.
It's just a bit of common courtesy which is as sadly lacking as common sense at the moment unfortunately.
Maz
http://maz.net.au/
one of the other things is the sheer VOLUME of replies, in the Hermes section, there are over 250 replies in a couple of threads! not meaning to sound lazy, but that is a hell of a lot!!!
of corse i'm reading them and reading repeat after repeat of questions that are the same.
Its great when the #1 topic poster goes through the posts and copies soloutions to problems and presents it in the 1st post!
hmm think thats covered just about everything on my mind
*gets flamethrower out*
Flamin' time =D
kiddin'
Y'all have to admit. Some of the "senior" members here have this god complex.
Once they manage to have their devices run unofficial stuff - even if it isn't their own work, and they were just following simple instructions, which don't really take much work once you get down to it - they think it gives them every right to go Bastard Operator From Hell to just about anyone else.
I guess it's pretty normal for unofficial channels, innit - I see the same kind of folks in emulation and driver forums. Not to mention linux and hardware boards. But some of the "ascended" here ought to remember that they didn't start as gods, and may not really be that much of a "god" after all.
You know there are noobs and then there are noobs.
Take a look at this thread. If every novice would put half the effort in as this guy did we wouldn't be having this dessication at all.
Don't get me wrong, I do not support flaming (well maybe with some small exceptions) and say what you will about senior members but at least all those guys who "just followed simple instructions" had the sense to go find and read those instructions.
So can your really blame someone who spent time reading and learning when he sees the forum flooded by people who expect to be walked through something step by step without bothering to put in even a minimum effort?
No, dozen responses that don't answer the question are not the solution, but hey everyone needs to went somehow.
levenum said:
You know there are noobs and then there are noobs.
Take a look at this thread. If every novice would put half the effort in as this guy did we wouldn't be having this dessication at all.
Don't get me wrong, I do not support flaming (well maybe with some small exceptions) and say what you will about senior members but at least all those guys who "just followed simple instructions" had the sense to go find and read those instructions.
So can your really blame someone who spent time reading and learning when he sees the forum flooded by people who expect to be walked through something step by step without bothering to put in even a minimum effort?
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I agree. There's WAAAAYY too much "how do I. . ." posts in the forums when all the information is already there for READING. More stickys at the top of the forums won't solve the problem, because the ones that are there WITH the information are not being read by the noobs even now.
It's really sad for me to see the direction that this board has taken in the past year. When I first registered, it was an AWESOME site with LOTS of users developing useful tools and apps to make these devices even better . . . a place to share ideas and to try out the cooked ROMs.
Then, we had an influx of new users about 6 months ago that simply couldn't -- or WOULDN'T -- search for answers before posting. Now, the board is so bloated with those useless posts/threads that it's a nightmare using the search function anymore.
While I still come here daily to check the General section and the Wizard section, I don't do much posting and only read the threads of general interest to me. I'll help where I can on answering questions -- but only if they haven't already been asked a gazillion times before. I still look for the tools and apps from the developers here to keep tweaking my phone to get the absolute MOST out of it, and I've flashed more ROMs from this site than Quaker's got oats. -- and all without asking "how do I. . ." or "I've bricked my phone. . . " because I READ THE INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE DOING ANYTHING!!!
It's really that simple. All you have to do is READ and FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS -- step by step. Don't skip a step or leave anything out, and it works!!!
that it's a nightmare using the search function anymore.
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As much as I see your point, I have only 2 words to say. "Vicious Cycle".
I'm also a noob but i dont care because i know my options, first do a search ( which by the way is pratically unusable, but not only here all foruns have this problem), but in a community so big it´s comprehensive cause sometimes the answer to the problem is two threads bellow or in the next page, but no let´s open another thread asking the same thing, and i know that such attitude will lead to saturation of the older members.
The answer is simple if someone is in the mood answer if not leave it, until the users realize their options to search for things this will never end.
I'm glad to be here because above all it's a learning place for the ones who enjoy this platform and the ones who just like to know about varied stuff.
Cheers and have a nice weekend
yes thanks everyone for all thr help and advice. Keep it up!
Peace out
Registration fees
To alleviate the amount of worthless posts and to give something back to those that dedicate so much time and effort to this forum (rom cookers, admins and mods) why dont we add a registration fee to this forum?
Just a thought, but I would happily pay an annual fee of 20 eur / 15 GBP for this forum.
Searching
I think that quite a lot of the problem is with how difficult it is to get answers out of the forum search facility if you're not used to it.
Could it be possible to add a dumb-ass version that's the default?
There have been no end of times in the past when i've been searching for info on upgrading and I have to trawl through hundreds of irrelevant posts (most of them telling people to go to other posts that don't have the right info on them).
Also, back in the day there was a lot more info on the wiki section relating to the upgrading/modding etc but now (understandably given the number of devices available) the information only seems to be in the forums.
I like the idea of having a sticky in each thread listing useful articles on common topics. I bet no one will bother to read them though.
I still think my library illustration I gave over at TC stills says it best.
We all know the library is full of info on so many things you could want to know. And we all know what's expected of us in a library; go find the book on the subject. If you have trouble finding the answer, then ask your question.
I think where so many go wrong is thinking that they can just walk in to the library and start asking questions from whoever just happens to be there, rather than first trying to find the answer for themselves in the variety of books available.
And what's wrong with someone who at first was a noob - asking repeated questions - and then learning what's expected of them, and then expecting the same from others? You got told to be quiet in the library, at first you were offended, and then began to realize the benefit, and then inturn expect the same from others.
I really don't expect people to figure it out. Call me a pessimist or call me a realist.
Oh, by-the-way, have you noticed that this kind of topic always results in long, drawn-out posts?
Hi I was wondering if there is a One Click Root, because well I'm not smart enough to do step 1-19 or whatever so is there a 1 click root for 2.1-Update 1
Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide using XDA App
that would be a no
Just gonna throw this out there -- If there was a one click root, wouldn't it be posted in the how to root post?
Also, if there was a one click root why would an incredibly long an complex method be listed at all?
Third, wouldn't it be more appropriate to ask this in the how to root the slide post and not to create a pointless new post and clutter up the development forums?
isnt this the same guy that made the froyo demand thread lol? just ban him
tonyriceroni said:
isnt this the same guy that made the froyo demand thread lol? just ban him
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I don't think the mods need to go THAT far...
Chris, seriously, you need to cease creating threads in this forum. Please use the search functionality to answer your questions as, thus far, they have all been asked before and answered as well.
There is no one-click root on this device nor will there be for the foreseeable future. And there is no Froyo rom out yet -- as soon as one is released it will be posted here or on Android Spin.
Oooooh great now people I don't even know want no part in me, greeeat
Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide using XDA App
Nobody really wants you banned, we would just like to see the clutter kept down. This phone is growing in popularity, so it would be safe to assume that, if a new and easier method to root had come along, it would have been posted, and moist definitely stickied to the top. They're wanting to see people use a little more common sense is all.
It the processing of rooting your phone is too techincal for someone then why would they want root? Just use the phone as a phone like most people do.
I would like to see people banned who obviously can't follow the rules of the forum. I would like to be able to come here and check to see if anything new and exciting is happening with ACTUAL android development, but more than half the posts(probably more than 2/3) are pointless things that are already answered elsewhere.
nerdcorerising said:
I would like to see people banned who obviously can't follow the rules of the forum. I would like to be able to come here and check to see if anything new and exciting is happening with ACTUAL android development, but more than half the posts(probably more than 2/3) are pointless things that are already answered elsewhere.
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Click to collapse
Based on your username, I am pretty sure that the communities in general you would prefer simply don't exist in real life, because as you know, the Internet is full of stupid.
Will someone close and delete this thread and the one called "froyo"
Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide using XDA App
This thread has rattled my delicate existence so damn much! I can't breath with this lunatic posting questions! How dare they not know everything? I demand extreme punishment for ANYONE feeling their way around the forum! My life was perfect until this idiot starting asking how to do things they don't know the answer to! I refuse to be helpful or constructive! Ban him! Ban his children! Ban anyone who takes more than a post to know the ins and outs of the forum! Burn his house down! Salt the earth! No more wire hangers!
frankly i agree that users like this should at the least get a suspension and a link to the rules and search button. just too funny though that i was just arguing that xda has turned to script kiddie playground where everyone wants an easy solution that is just one-click or one button press and be done, who cares about the weeks spent on the original method lets use the simple one and give thanks to that guy.
tubaking182 said:
frankly i agree that users like this should at the least get a suspension and a link to the rules and search button. just too funny though that i was just arguing that xda has turned to script kiddie playground where everyone wants an easy solution that is just one-click or one button press and be done, who cares about the weeks spent on the original method lets use the simple one and give thanks to that guy.
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Seriously? It took me less than a few seconds to click the link, read the question, realize that even I knew the answer, and to go back to the development directory. It didn't even occur to me to be annoyed. This guy is obviously interested in the same thing you are and is simply asking questions to get caught up to speed. At one point in time, you knew as much as this guy did. Perhaps you learn better when people berate and threaten you but normal, well adjusted people don't. Try a little patience. It works.
Also, I do agree that a link to the rules and search button is a good way to stem the tide of superfluous threads. I'm just saying people shouldn't take mistakes as acts of aggression.
yes i may have been as dumb/n00bish when i started hacking phones, but google was my best friend first, and he introduced me to xda, now google is more like the third wheel when search here doesn't work. if you cannot search you should not be allowed to post. if you cannot follow directions (steps 1-19) then you shouldn't be here. part of hacking these phones is that you have to be able to use a computer first, if you can't use a computer then you shouldn't be hacking your phone.
this is just as bad as the people that "brick" their phones and don't know how to fix it because they didn't read the sticky. clutter is what this is all about though, most of us hate that we have to sift through page after page of clutter to find the threads that matter to us.
I can get with that but I know that I will err, from time to time. Ergo, I can't expect other people to not err. (believe me, I will ask dumb questions.) Google has proved to be a relatively useless tool when it comes to learning about phone modding, except that it led me here.
When I make a dumb post and someone tells me to "Get a clue, mongoloid ****!", it doesn't make me want to get better at searching the forums, it makes me want to skin their dog.
I'm eager to learn and, since I'm new to the forum, I probably shouldn't be dictating terms, but it seems cruel to automatically ban or suspend someone who's intelligence might not lie in effectively using a search engine. He might be a cool guy with a horse **** who donates to charity.
People like you have the knowledge base. People like me have **** all. Everything I've learned has come from reading the forums and asking stupid questions. Since I am new, things might fly by me in the Q & A section because everyone's using terms that are new to me. I have yet to find a decent glossary of terms and it's not for lack of trying. I didn't even know what a radio was, a month ago. Because some people are helpful, I now know what it is, what it does, and how to put a new one on my phone.
You're one of the cool kids, you know? Be thankful you've got a grip on this and try not to sweat it when people make mistakes. In my line of work, n00bs don't even ask questions. They just see what people like me do and assume they can do it, as well. Now that's irritating.
I have some excellent grass and I'm more than willing to share if it means everyone will take it down a notch.
Oh, and you're absolutely right. It's just that reading through all of the useful and useless **** alike is a daunting task. You can't blame someone for wanting to bypass it all, once in a while, and to maybe add a little color and conversation to all of the relevant data to make the whole experience more worthwhile.
Sleef said:
I have some excellent grass and I'm more than willing to share if it means everyone will take it down a notch.
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i like that idea, after a little time for my grass i understand people wanting to take shortcuts, i have been trying to come up with a better solution for root, even if it was a semi-simple batch or script with pauses and questions and directions as you go along. i love to show people how great their phone can be and some of them probably end up here as the n00b i flame for not reading or following directions
The great thing about XDA is that the Mods are very good at what they do and will not just drop the ban hammer for something as simple as asking a bad question no matter how much any member screams for it. There are checks and balances just like any other system of justice. So no need to argue or defend yourself if you are new here, from what I have seen it's actualy quite difficult to get banned and there is a proccess that must be followed before it will come to that.
I thought I asked this to be closed,....that's it I'm gonna boycot XDA and I'm switching to sricktly android sites,...goodbye and farewell, p.s. could some mod someware delete my account,. And I don't care what any of u retarted freaks that get all hufed and puffed and raged up when somone asks a random question, BYE, FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide using XDA App
[highlight]Mod Edit: @Mikey or overground: I have stuck this thread in here, but I will let both of you decide on the future of this sticky as I don't want to step on your toes in the organization of such stickies. It is a pretty good "Read First" thread and should remain stuck IMHO.
egzthunder1[/highlight]
When you start to look into rooting your phone, remember what Uncle Ben said:
"With great power comes great responsibility."
I struggled with whether to post this thread under "Development" or "General." I didn't see anything similar already under Development, and I firmly believe a thread such as this needs to be front and center in the Development area. As the OTA has been leaked (twice!), more and more inexperienced "junior modders" have started to comment in the forums. This is all well and good, but there really should be a central, basic tutorial including terms, do's and don'ts, etc. available to those that need it, while at the same time cleaning up the threads for specific ROMs from non-ROM-specific questions.
With that being said, I am going to post some basic guidelines/facts below. If you believe any of this information is not correct, please PM me so that we can come to a collaborative agreement without spreading confusion within the thread.
General Information for Beginners (Please At Least Read This Info!)
1. ROOTING IS NOT FOR EVERYONE! Please don't root because it's "cool" if you don't have any idea what you're doing. There really is nothing wrong with waiting for the official OTAs, etc. If you want to experiment with your phone, I applaud you - but see #2.
2. Always read ALL of the directions in a thread FIRST. Keep in mind that many threads will direct you to yet another thread for full instructions on a process - read those instructions entirely too!
3. Once you read the instructions. FOLLOW THEM. Do not take shortcuts. If you do, you may be the owner of a very expensive paperweight.
4. If you think your phone is stuck, boot looping, frozen, or whatever else, especially during a system, radio or ROM flash - DO NOT REMOVE YOUR BATTERY. Step away from the phone, and give it time. Give it at least half an hour, then reassess. (Thanks to sryan2k1)
5. If you encounter a pitfall, you should search the thread before you post your request for help so that you can see if others have had similar difficulties, as well as how they resolved them if they did in fact fix the issue.
6. If you found a solution to your problem you've asked for help on - please, post that you resolved it, and HOW you resolved it, especially if none of the advice offered by others helped.
7. The developer community is inherently an open and helpful one. Always feel free to post your questions, but please try to do your research first and always post your questions in the proper forum and thread. (Thanks to Linux4me28)
8. It's good practice to always make a backup! That may take the form of Nandroid (backing up your entire system, usually through Recovery), but if you start dabbling in ADB it also means rather than overwriting files you should simply append the old file's name until you're sure you've got it right (myfile.zip > myfile.zip.bak).
Rooting and Mod Terms, Basics, etc.
1. "Rooting" means, essentially, providing yourself with administrative rights to your phone.
2. A "ROM" is basically an entire system image - think of it like Windows XP versus Windows 7.
3. A ROM will *not* root your phone.
4. "Bricking" your phone means it's permanently borked. If you can turn your phone on and get to virtually any system screen, you're probably not bricked, and there's probably hope for you and your device!
5. You must be already rooted to install a ROM.
6. A ROM is installed through a custom recovery, such as ClockworkMod Recovery.
7. There are tools in existence, such as UnrEvoked3.x that will assist in easily rooting your phone.
8. The "Radio" is (in layman's terms) the part of the phone that interacts with a service provider's tower, and it too has firmware. Flashing a Radio image is a bit more of a risky proposition than just flashing a ROM, but it may be required in some cases. Again, ALWAYS READ THE DIRECTIONS.
9. ROMs are device-specific and, oftentimes, Radio-specific as well. This means that you must pay attention to the requirements for the ROM you want to install.
10. Remember: Rooting doesn't mean that you'll have any more success in "pirating" software. It just means you'll be able to control more of your phone's functions. I think you'll find that the developer community is even more protective of IP rights than the average user-base. A lot of developers work off of donations, but that doesn't mean that credit for their original works shouldn't be given.
Miscellaneous
1. Google is your friend, and so is the "Search Thread" tool. Please do not post questions in a thread when you could easily, and more quickly, find the answer by doing a search. That's just lazy .
Links to Other Helpful Threads
HTC Droid Incredible Helpful/Popular Threads (Thanks to stroupified)
I welcome any additions, but let's keep this polite and courteous. I was new at this once, myself - three weeks ago I purchased my first Android device, the Dinc. And yes, I mean that to be a somewhat strange statement. Before I've done ANY modifications, I've read the instructions, read the entire thread, and followed all directions to the letter. The only pitfall I've had was because I took a shortcut - once (but I learned my lesson!).
Changelog
08/04/10 - Cleaned up some formatting and spelling. Added contributions from others.
08/05/10 - Added links from other contributors, as well as additional information. Things were also getting unwieldy, so I broke things up a bit to make it more readable. If everyone prefers it all mashed together like it was, please let me know.
Excellent advice, sir.
I lurked here for months before trying to root and install ROMS. While I'm not a pro at it yet and have much to learn, I have more confidence in what I'm doing.
I think the reason most people try rooting is because they think they will get "free" apps or something, like its something they can do to pirate software with their phone or something. I do not think they understand the process completely.
To simplify your post OP,
If you want to root and are inexperienced, read what you are doing first over and over or at least have insurance...Most problems people have is caused by their ignorance, not the fact a program did something wrong.
I was new to rooting with my Moto Droid. Before that I was loading hybrid OS's on my POS Storm. Due to having lots of computer experience, I picked up rooting and ADB quite easily. Most people that root though, I really think they are looking for the ability to pirate and not to install custom ROMs, themes, and/or run apps at root level.
^^^ This should be stickied...
I agree with op couldn't said it any better. Also agreed it should be sticky post.
Sent from my ADR6300
Excellent! Bravo!
TNS201 said:
I think the reason most people try rooting is because they think they will get "free" apps or something, like its something they can do to pirate software with their phone or something. I do not think they understand the process completely.
To simplify your post OP,
If you want to root and are inexperienced, read what you are doing first over and over or at least have insurance...Most problems people have is caused by their ignorance, not the fact a program did something wrong.
I was new to rooting with my Moto Droid. Before that I was loading hybrid OS's on my POS Storm. Due to having lots of computer experience, I picked up rooting and ADB quite easily. Most people that root though, I really think they are looking for the ability to pirate and not to install custom ROMs, themes, and/or run apps at root level.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a character flaw of wanting to wring the very last drop of performance out of my electronic devices...plus I find it challenging.
I'm sure there's a bit of "I'm really not supposed to be doing this" involved as well.
magneticzero said:
There is no reason this belongs in the dev thread. reported.
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I am going to have to disagree with you. A general set of guidelines for people to follow are always a good idea in a development forum. Something like this is bound to catch at least a few wandering eyes of new-comers into the site. By reading this, they will likely lurk around, read, and search before asking questions, avoiding possible flaming in the process (and making mod's lives a bit easier in the process too )
Also, fairly important, if you are in the middle of a flash/recovery, and you think the phone has frozen, or bricked, or stopped. DO NOT PULL THE BATTERY OUT.
Wait at least a half hour before touching it. It is the same with any device, a computer BIOS, phones, embedded devices, it may not look like it is doing anything, but it likely still is. That is one of the few ways to really brick a device is yank the power in the middle of a OS/ROM/Baseband/Etc flash.
We do it all the time on our hardware at work, but we have JTAG ports where we can reprogram the internal/external flash with a external tools. We don't have that luxury on these phones. Patience is your friend.
well said sir. the incredible was my first android device and i waited a couple months before i rooted it and felt comfortable with adb and weighed the benefits of rooting vs not rooting (that took like 2 min lol) I love technology and belive in running it to it's full potential because we paid $xxx.xx for our divices we should want to get our money's worth.
i was gonna suggest some threads that helped me out but someone has alread complied them into it's own thread. maybe you could make a shortcut for those people who are new to the forum. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=739428
magneticzero said:
Good read, but it is just "General Information". How is it directly helping me development a ROM or OS update? Just wondering...
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It benefits you in that you hopefully might have fewer people cluttering your Dev threads. No offense, but you're assuming the average consumer is going to look in "General Information" for General Information. They don't. There should be some detterent in place. As these types of devices become more prevalent, you should understand that the average "Development" visitor and poster is no longer a Developer.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
thank you.
great hopefully more people will read this
magneticzero said:
So what you are implying it isnt really a development section of the forum....maybe they need to lock it and just post releases to you in the general forum....no matter what people are still gonna post crap and clutter this place.
I vote lock this forum to developers only and make it read only for general public.
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magneticzero said:
i am entitled to my opinion. cheers!
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With all due respect, you have been around for less than a month. XDA has historically been a place where people contribute, come to learn from each other, and get help if needed be. What you are suggesting here goes completely against the whole ethos of XDA as a community. Non-devs come here to learn from the devs. Unfortunately, many people from the newer forums have very little tolerance for others who may not be at their level, and this really gets in my nerves as well as the rest of the mods. While I agree that people should search and read prior to posting questions, I wholeheartedly disagree with the fact that as of recently, people cannot even post a single question without being flamed to smithereens. The OP simply posted a very useful and to the point guide with suggestions (and yes, it is basic but not everyone can understand how to make a new kernel).
At this point, I would like to ask you to stop posting these kinds of comments in this thread. You are trying to start a very much unneeded argument in a thread whose sole purpose of existence is to prevent the sole thing that you are complaining about in the first place. This thread will stay in place and that's the end of it. I have talked this over with overground and Mikey (both in charge of this section) and they have agreed with my decision.
While you are entitled to give your two cents, you are not allowed to troll and or flame, and starting unnecessary arguments for no reason is considered flaming.
Quite honestly this is the most sensible piece of information on XDA. I implore you to talk to some of the other dev mods (particularly evo 4g) and offer to add this as a sticky. I've been here a short while myself, but have already seen things devolved to a level of non-civility that makes me not want to participate anymore myself.
Seriously, awesome post.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
egzthunder1 said:
With all due respect, you have been around for less than a month. XDA has historically been a place where people contribute, come to learn from each other, and get help if needed be. What you are suggesting here goes completely against the whole ethos of XDA as a community. Non-devs come here to learn from the devs. Unfortunately, many people from the newer forums have very little tolerance for others who may not be at their level, and this really gets in my nerves as well as the rest of the mods. While I agree that people should search and read prior to posting questions, I wholeheartedly disagree with the fact that as of recently, people cannot even post a single question without being flamed to smithereens. The OP simply posted a very useful and to the point guide with suggestions (and yes, it is basic but not everyone can understand how to make a new kernel).
At this point, I would like to ask you to stop posting these kinds of comments in this thread. You are trying to start a very much unneeded argument in a thread whose sole purpose of existence is to prevent the sole thing that you are complaining about in the first place. This thread will stay in place and that's the end of it. I have talked this over with overground and Mikey (both in charge of this section) and they have agreed with my decision.
While you are entitled to give your two cents, you are not allowed to troll and or flame, and starting unnecessary arguments for no reason is considered flaming.
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We all need to start somewhere. Few people come here at the level of a Mr Koush.
douger1957 said:
We all need to start somewhere. Few people come here at the level of a Mr Koush.
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You know what's great though? Even he offered to meet me in IRC to help with an issue one time. That's what's great about this community.
I am a lurker and while I was good at messing with custom ROMS in Windows, I have been crawling up a steep learning curve with Android. But then I am a 50 year old lady lawyer so of course it's steep...
I rarely post anything. I do NOT ask questions because I do not want yelled at. BUT!
I have learned a great deal from other peoples' questions and the answers provided by the technically adept. Please don't close this forum to civilians. The information imparted in the give and take between n00bs and pros is invaluable as a teaching method, really it is.
The one observation I would make, though, is that 500 page forums are not really useful. Maybe shut them down more quickly as issues which emerge are addressed. For instance, once a newer ROM has been released, or patched, or an issue resolved, close that forum and start a new one with the resolved issue as the subject of the new thread and a link to it as the last post in the referring thread.
Thank to all of you for making owning a droid a blast!
Read and re-read....
I bricked a phone cause i read something wrong, once i read it again i got it, plus i had a few older phones that i toyed with to see if i understood everything.....nice having a few older devices around to test if your a noob. Like myself....
I totally agree with all that has been said here. The DInc took a long time to get root, but once it did, I was ready to give it a shot..as I had already been flashing, and cooking roms for my WM 6800..and also loaded a few hybrid OS's on my Storm.. so this was naturally the next chapter in my development as a developer...which is the endgame.. Bravo to all who help to keep rooting/modding fun, and edifying! Next I'm going to see if I can cook up my own Froyo ROM..
So I am considering rooting my phone, and I have been poking around and noticed all of the "essential" rooting threads are ages old, I have had my evo 4g for a week, and coming from a noob considering rooting I have a few questions (secondly im sure most of my questions just involve digging, but I am the kind of learner who needs to see everything in one or two places, not 20 or 30 different ones) so here goes my questions...
1. Why should I root, what are the advantages
2. What is the difference between deoxed and odexed
3. what is the step by step guide to rooting (im running snow leopard, but can get access to windows, would prefer to do it in snow leopard)
4. What are roms, kernals...other lingo and definations I need to or should know before rooting
5. what does rooting disable
and 6. Whats the coolest thing i can do once I am rooted
A special thanks to any one willing to take there time and explain these items to me rather then link me to another thread.
you seem like you haven't done any research what so ever.
What OS did you come from?
Yeah, it's kind of important to be willing to read a LOT. Or you probably shouldn't even bother. If you don't wanna read and really examine, then I would just stay stock. Evo is a fine phone stock.
'What's the 'coolest'thing you can do?'
(Aside from reading), I would say, that would be up to you what's coolest.
ROM is read only memory. Kernel, as I understand it, is the resource your ROM relies on to run, and greatly impacts battery life, and various functionalities. And allows for overclocking/undervolting, etc.
Root would disable/disallow you from accepting OTAs directly from Sprint
Kornsaq said:
you seem like you haven't done any research what so ever.
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I have done some reading on it, just as i said everything is spread out, and I have a very difficult time combining stuff from different areas, I am currently using osx, and all of the noob rooting instructions im able to find need files to be modified in windows/linux (osx is unix based)
Read the sticky thread at the top of this Q&A forum. The thread is called "Common misconceptions and useful information." ricsim included some really good pointers at the top of the thread and I have my own contributions at the bottom of the thread. I know you'll probably be a little annoyed by the fact that you have to find your own answers but it's critical that you learn what you're doing to your phone and why. Unless you do you'll turn into the next user who gets flamed for posting something similar to "OMG WHRE r Da GOOGLKE appzzzz" or anything resembling that.
What I'm trying to say is the rest of us learned by researching and we have faith that you can too.
Good luck.
beatblaster said:
Read the sticky thread at the top of this Q&A forum. The thread is called "Common misconceptions and useful information." ricsim included some really good pointers at the top of the thread and I have my own contributions at the bottom of the thread. I know you'll probably be a little annoyed by the fact that you have to find your own answers but it's critical that you learn what you're doing to your phone and why. Unless you do you'll turn into the next user who gets flamed for posting something similar to "OMG WHRE r Da GOOGLKE appzzzz" or anything resembling that.
What I'm trying to say is the rest of us learned by researching and we have faith that you can too.
Good luck.
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Since i posted this, I have been doing some clicking around, and im very very slowly understanding stuff, i will read through the mentioned thread, and the reason im asking these questions is an attempt to help me understand some more of this, i really dont want to risk bricking my phone (however low the risk is) with out knowing what im doing
This idea came about from a discussion, in the old requests to mods & admins thread, about dealing with new users across this site.
When I say dealing with new users, I mean how you respond to either posts where the user clearly hasn't searched, the user has done something they shouldn't have done etc etc.
Some users will simply report the members post and leave it down to the moderators to deal with. Some will respond with sarcasm/trolling/flaming. Some will simply give the person the correct information and mention nothing about what they've done wrong and others, like me, may feel the need to rant away at some users.
With me, if someone has done something they shouldn't have done, I won't ever report it. I'll only report a post if it's something serious like racism or illegal content. I'll generally give tell the person nicely what it is they've done wrong and what they should've done instead.
Obviously, doing so won't always work and the new member will continue doing wrong. I'll then PM the member and explain it to them fully away from public view.
However, if I come across a situation where a user has done wrong, and after being told so numerous times even by different people, that's when I'll step in and rant at them. My rants are never harsh and can never be mistaken for such. I simply tell them what they've done wrong and what they should've done, but I write it in such a way where it makes it seem angrier and makes the message sink in.
I'm interested to know what others opinions are on this and how you personally deal with such situations.
I already know that if moderators drop by in here, they'll probably say it's best to use the report feature but I'd like to hear everyone's opinions anyway
what i try to do is tell them as nicely as i can (not really that nice, but i don't flame) where they're wrong. i do realize mods are busy and i avoid reporting until i've given the new member at least a warning. i do report immediately when the issue is serious (ie: spamming in dev threads, warez, etc.).
Sent from my rooted tomato using xda app
I try to point out their mistakes. Then I explain (nicely) that xxx shouldn't have done yyyy. It doesn't hurt to be well-mannered. The member usually realizes his/her mistake and (tries to at least) never repeats it, hopefully.
I usually don't flame anyone.. I just reply them where they should have actually reported or posted it with link to that threads or forums.. and I ask them to post in proper section from next times.. usually using "please" or such words makes it better I feel.. they will feel we are trying to help them not to get in trouble in future and such.. and hopefully they will follow the advice in future..
But if I see same guy after been told does the same mistake.. then I report them..
Also I will report all wrong threads using PM with link to thread directly to our device mod as he is friendly and doesn't mind such PMs..
Sent from the MUST have app!
Great idea for a thread. I saw a very good post by FallenSpartan that really helped explain in the old mod requests thread, but I can't find it, must have been deleted. Anyways, the bottom line is, the person on the other side that computer could be anyone. For all you know, they could barely be able to speak English, or even have a mental disability . People need to be a little more understanding, trolling and flaming will only frustrate people and confuse them even more. A polite but pointed request to search next time and that the information is out there along with a link to it would be ideal in my opinion. The new users might not entirely grasp the concept of what's going on and how to easily search, and that information isn't exactly readily available. I know it is out there, but speaking from personal experience, I didn't go anywhere outside of my device's forum for quite some time after joining, not that I didn't know how to do those things. Point is, while the idea of searching and finding information for yourself is commonplace to you, it may not be to new users, and I don't think the importance of finding your own information is stressed enough for new members. While you may get angry and feel the need to rant and flame, it won't be nearly as effective at changing the way people act compared to a polite and firm request with the info attached, and possibly even what you did to find the information.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2
@cascabel & nitubhaskar - I used to find that reporting would work, especially considering that's what the mods always say is the best option rather than dealing with it yourself, but if I was to report all those who were report worthy, I'd never get anything else done lol.
Plus, the way I see it, if someone gets reported and a mod deals with it, there's generally no explanation as to why their post was wrong. Doing it in such a way that I do, it tells them what others tell them but seems to stick in their mind more because of the way it was written.
@sgt. meow - I guess with your forum being a fairly quiet forum, there's generally no need to do more than you do, as in such a forum people like that are really easy to notice and take action against if needed.
@prototype - I saw that post by FS aswell and I do agree with what he said. It could quite easily be a disabled person or someone with learning difficulties etc. but as of the time of the rants, I don't think about that because I just think about the fact they've constantly done the wrong thing.
Maybe I should put more consideration into things like that, but I just don't.
And while I do kind of agree that some people may be more open to listening if you actually help them out, as said above, in my experience ranting works.
It's not as if I rant at people all the time. That's truly not the case. The majority of the time I'll either help them in the thread by directing them to the right course of action or I'll PM them. It's only in certain situations that I feel a rant is actually necessary, whether others agree with that or not.
I've been approved by Snowflake. Jealous?
KidCarter93 said:
@cascabel & nitubhaskar -
Plus, the way I see it, if someone gets reported and a mod deals with it, there's generally no explanation as to why their post was wrong. Doing it in such a way that I do, it tells them what others tell them but seems to stick in their mind more because of the way it was written.
It's not as if I rant at people all the time. That's truly not the case. The majority of the time I'll either help them in the thread by directing them to the right course of action or I'll PM them.
I've been approved by Snowflake. Jealous?
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Actually you are right.. it helps them if we say what wrong they did and also give info what they asked in same post.. but I hope they won't feel that, even if he/she did made a wrong/ mistake they will get the quick info they need without any effort kinda feeling..
About mods not giving info on why they delete posts /lock threads.. well considering their busy work I guess its understandable..
But our forum mod The-Captain always kindly leaves a note for user as far as I have seen.. and I send PM only after I inform the newbie most of the times.. so both deeds are done.. lesson reached and reported
About your ranting...
Lol.. no way.. as far as I have seen your posts.. well your patience is pretty high.. ocassionally I have seen you going angry.. otherwise you are kind enough to give info and inform them of their mistakes.. well that's my observation.. excluding your device forum though
Sent from the MUST have app!
It's in the XDA rules to be nice to other members, whether new or old. So even if noob posts a warez content i never flame or troll him. Yeah, i do wanna give him a scolding but i don't. I'm gonna simply report it. Yes, i do sometimes post a reply or give him a PM, requesting him to remove the content with a link to the rules.
If a user dosen't search :-
Suppose a noob has bricked his phone, and creates a thread asking for help. In many cases of not searching, i advise users to search, but in these particular cases, i give 'em a link to the specific thread too.
If someone (racially) discriminates another user, i simply report him/her. Flaming him with sarcastic remarks might earn me a few thanks, (maybe) suppress the guy down, but it still isn't good for two reasons - one, as it's against the rules, two, as it proves that you're not a bit different from the user.
||I'm just a PM away for help||
How I respond depends on a new users thread, if it's to ask something particular then I'll either not reply or provide a link that's related or helps directly, if it's a new thread asking "how to root", how to unlock the boot loader", "how to install this ROM", "what's the best ROM" (there's at least 20+ threads asking that or similar in the Arc section in the last month or two) or asking about something in an existing thread that they could have just asked their question in, then I tend to be a bit more, how shall I say this, sarcastically direct :silly:, which some People take on the chin, and if they get it then I'll try to be more helpful, but you get the odd one or two who take umbrage then want to argue, needless to say I don't help that kind of user.
People joining here should be of a certain aptitude to begin imo and willing to learn, I'm much more inclined to help a user who has shown a bit of initiative but a lot are just sheer lazy and the amount of things that get asked that could be answered in the stickys amazes me.
But then you still get senior members who act like they've never been here before also, so I'm the same with them too. :angel:
KidCarter93 said:
@cascabel & nitubhaskar - I used to find that reporting would work, especially considering that's what the mods always say is the best option rather than dealing with it yourself, but if I was to report all those who were report worthy, I'd never get anything else done lol.
Plus, the way I see it, if someone gets reported and a mod deals with it, there's generally no explanation as to why their post was wrong. Doing it in such a way that I do, it tells them what others tell them but seems to stick in their mind more because of the way it was written.
@sgt. meow - I guess with your forum being a fairly quiet forum, there's generally no need to do more than you do, as in such a forum people like that are really easy to notice and take action against if needed.
@prototype - I saw that post by FS aswell and I do agree with what he said. It could quite easily be a disabled person or someone with learning difficulties etc. but as of the time of the rants, I don't think about that because I just think about the fact they've constantly done the wrong thing.
Maybe I should put more consideration into things like that, but I just don't.
And while I do kind of agree that some people may be more open to listening if you actually help them out, as said above, in my experience ranting works.
It's not as if I rant at people all the time. That's truly not the case. The majority of the time I'll either help them in the thread by directing them to the right course of action or I'll PM them. It's only in certain situations that I feel a rant is actually necessary, whether others agree with that or not.
I've been approved by Snowflake. Jealous?
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Your ranting works. That's because you've already told them what they're screwing up multiple times and just need to get it into their heads that they can't keep doing whatever they're doing. Ranting without giving any reasoning or advice isn't so effective.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2
I mention what they did wrong and just report it or send a pm to a moderator...Don't like making the situation worse
I got transformed into a potato while writing this post..
Well, I always try to understand the situation of the user, I mean on the SGSII forums,for example, I've recognize some users that always post questions instead of search even if the answer it's on the previous page, to them, I ask nicely to search but also I remember that me or some other user told him yet that please follow the rules and search before of post.
In the case of the total newbie users, mostly, I guide them to the thread, post or forum that they need but also, I mention that the rules are clear and need start to search before.
Sometimes I do the recomendation of put (in the next post that they do) where they search or how, if they do it yet, in that way we can give a better help (maybe it's not searching by the right terms or something like that)
I'm totally hate the flame to an user, when I see a post that could be the probably cause of a flame war I report it ASAP. And also, when I see someone flaming I ask nicely to stop because it's against the rules.
Sent from Nyarlathothep's SGSII..."Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn"
When I first started, I advised them on the said thread itself, giving as much help as I could. I would wait for a response before PM-ing him/her about what they did and how to avoid getting into more trouble. Along the way, I realised that the more I tried to be nice to them, the more they would just step on me and act as if nothing has happened. The final straw was when this one guy, started hurling abuse at me for pointing out his mistake, vandalised my ROM thread and IRC channel. Soon after more and more hate PM's started to arise. Now I don't bother with wrong do-ers. I find them guilty, I report them. If it get's out of hand, I'll give a sarcastic yet hard hitting post that he/she will never forget. I know it's wrong and some of them will hate me till the rest of their days, but I find monkeys like these only listen to a nice warm infraction instead of kind words. Now I just focus on bug related problems in my forum. Common courtesy is eroding in new users everywhere. Sorry, but this is what more than a year in XDA has made me into . No, I will not change my ways
What I do when users keep posting ETAs/refuse to oblige when told politely - I usually post a image showing what I mean.e.g.facepalm for repeated ETA.it seems to work because-
1.the user seems embarrassed on seeing an actual expression of a person in the image e.g.facepalm.
2.more effective than a wall of post.
3.stands out, no need to read.
4.based on same principle of pie-diagrams, frequency polygons, bar diagrams - more attractive, more efficient.
"your lips move, but I cannot hear what you're saying..."
Bumping for mods/admins to get involved
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
KidCarter93 said:
Bumping for mods/admins to get involved
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
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I don't think they will.
||I'm just a PM away for help||
anasdcool71 said:
I don't think they will.
||I'm just a PM away for help||
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I don't think they will either, but it's worth a try.
Sent from my LT26i using xda premium
And it seemed to work, that bump.
On topic:
Simply abide the rules. If you see someone breaking the rules (e.g. posting warez, flaming, spamming, etc) report it, using the "!" button on the post. The report will be picked up by a moderator and will be registered, in case we need to review afterwards. Of course, if it's a minor offence, a PM to a mod is ok too.
But how to deal with new users who just ask alot of questions and don't know our "netiquette"?
Try a calm approach and tell them to use the Search function ALOT.
Just remember one thing and live by it: We all were newbs at one time.
Good to see this discussion, shows people care.
Big multiquote coming in 3, 2, 1....
nitubhaskar said:
I usually don't flame anyone.. I just reply them where they should have actually reported or posted it with link to that threads or forums.. and I ask them to post in proper section from next times.. usually using "please" or such words makes it better I feel.. they will feel we are trying to help them not to get in trouble in future and such.. and hopefully they will follow the advice in future..
But if I see same guy after been told does the same mistake.. then I report them..
Also I will report all wrong threads using PM with link to thread directly to our device mod as he is friendly and doesn't mind such PMs..
Sent from the MUST have app!
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Using common courtesy will go leaps and bounds to remedy the situation. People sometimes do need a not-so-gentle nudging on how things work, but also a simple Please and Thanks can go much further. Otherwise if you flame them for posting something that has been asked just a few pages back, this place can get the mob mentality and all of a sudden, that one comment has turned into 4 pages of dribble that usually has to be cleaned by us and sometimes results in infractions for 1 or more members. Nobody wants that, right?
****The one thing that everyone should do is put on their way-back-hats and remember is when they were first tinkering with their phone and messed something up. Do you remember that Panic Mode your were in? :crying: Palms all sweaty, reading 5-6-7 pages at a time. Thinking that you just bricked your $600usd device. It sucks big time. I've been there many times (long ago )
nitubhaskar said:
About mods not giving info on why they delete posts /lock threads.. well considering their busy work I guess its understandable..
But our forum mod The-Captain always kindly leaves a note for user as far as I have seen.. and I send PM only after I inform the newbie most of the times.. so both deeds are done.. lesson reached and reported
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We generally try to leave a message as to why a thread was closed or moved. It isn't really a rule but again more of a common courtesy.
Also, The-Captain That guy is a class act. Nice, friendly and efficient. :good::good::good:
anasdcool71 said:
It's in the XDA rules to be nice to other members, whether new or old.
Suppose a noob has bricked his phone, and creates a thread asking for help. In many cases of not searching, i advise users to search, but in these particular cases, i give 'em a link to the specific thread too.
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Actually it isn't in the rules to be nice per se. But Rule #10 does say,
10. Help others if you can
If you see posts from others where you can help out, please do. This place exists because people are helping each other, and even if you are relatively new to the matter, there's probably already quite a few people newer than you that would benefit from what you've learned. Don't be shy.
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******
Giving a link is great and I do it all the time. But where does that cross the line of you doing their searching for them. I find if it is obscure enough, i will give a link, but the Department of Redundancy Department questions don't get such treatment, if you know what I mean.
loneagl said:
What I do when users keep posting ETAs/refuse to oblige when told politely - I usually post a image showing what I mean.e.g.facepalm for repeated ETA.it seems to work because-
1.the user seems embarrassed on seeing an actual expression of a person in the image e.g.facepalm.
2.more effective than a wall of post.
3.stands out, no need to read.
4.based on same principle of pie-diagrams, frequency polygons, bar diagrams - more attractive, more efficient.
"your lips move, but I cannot hear what you're saying..."
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I have done this more often than not. A simple picture can change the whole attitude of the thread. But not some stupid meme that has a personal attack or durogotory in any manner. I have one picture of a kid sticking a butter knife into a wall outlet and it say "nOOb" on it. Something as simple as that can change the tone and the OP wil make light of it and figure out where he went wrong. Sometimes not though and I have had it backfire on me a few times as well. But then in my next post, I would gently explain why I posted a picture and then guide them in the right direction. Some people tend to remember the visual, so the next time they want to start a thread, they may in-fact remember my picture and not the 4 pages of flaming they received.
KidCarter93 said:
I don't think they will either, but it's worth a try.
Sent from my LT26i using xda premium
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Now you have an SM and FSM.
Edit::: One thing that I forgot to mention was the shear numbers we have here. At any given time there are between 35 & 50k users online. That's huge. If you Google anything about mobile/tablets, XDA is almost always at the top and at the very least top 5. That is some tough numbers we're dealing with.
That's really a big multi-quote! And quite a big explanation!!
||I'm just a PM away for help||
---------- Post added at 08:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:51 AM ----------
Actually it isn't in the rules to be nice per se.
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I suppose it is under rule #2.5. And also under rule #10, as you stated.
||I'm just a PM away for help||