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I am in Canada and one of our carriers Telus just released the TouchPro 2
telus is a CDMA carrier, however, released the device as a world phone, quad band GSM and UMTS 2100 3G.
I am new to the GSM world and would like to understand better.
Telus and another carrier, bell mobility are building a 3G+ network that they plan to fire up later this year, the CDMA network will stay for a while and HSPA+ will be an overlay network with no GSM support.
Telus and bell plan to use UMTS 850/1900 bands.
When a company like HTC makes a phone, are the UMTS radio's hardware or software?
Is it possible for a OEM working with a carrier to hide UMTS 850/1900 bands or install 850/1900 bands in a new ROM update, say Windows 6.5 ROM?
It does not make sense to me for OEM's to make multiple versions of same phone, I understand each carrier has cosmetic outer requests, I am thinking of the core inside build.
It would be nice to have both networks in case the initial network build out for HSPA+ has issues.
Help!!
UMTS Radio is hadrware.
GSM/WCDMA(or UMTS, if you will) basebands are all hardware as the last poster noted. However, at the request of a carrier, one of the radios in a dual mode CDMA/GSM device can be disabled(as is the case with the dual mode CDMA/GSM version of the Touch Pro2 headed to Sprint here in the US). It is also [theoretically] possible to re-enable the GSM radio in one of the dual mode versions of the Touch Pro2.
On a side note, I wish the CDMA carriers here in the US would transition to GSM technology. I know Verizon will be conducting LTE trials late this year and early next year so that's a plus. It would be nice to transition to LTE, as well, or at least HSPA+....
EDIT: Actually, many OEMs make multiple versions of the same model device. The Touch Pro2 has numerous variants for each carrier which will sell it.
Well, in this case it's a different build from other Pro2's as it has cdma and therefore a different processor.
As for what it is truly capable of I don't know. Carriers have blocked out hardware functionality through software in the past (i.e. certain famous cases of phones with GPS having to wait a long time before a ROM that would let them take advantage of the GPS).
So maybe it's possible. I don't know if it is in this specific case, someone more familiar with the specific hardware and stuff will probably have to weigh in for a definite conclusion.
Hope so though...
UMTS Bands
Wow,
Thank You for the prompt replies.
I think the Telus TouchPro 2 is the same build as Sprint with Telus customization.
I understand that the hardware radio must be present for UMTS 850/1900 to work.
I am not too concerned about the GSM radio(s), just the UMTS radio(s).
According to the spec, it only has 2100 UMTS band
If Telus and likely Sprint have disabled the radio, is it possible to find out if indead the radio would support UMTS 850/1900 and could a cooked ROM enable those above bands?
seems I responded more or less at the same time as jaekidd
anyways...
according to the msm7600 spec sheet it can have the following umts combinations:
2100
1900+850
2100+800
2100+1700+800
2100+1900+850
Now I personally have no idea how one could check to see what options the installed hardware has and whether they are blocking something.
no idea if a new ROM could unlock those frequencies should they be present or how easy it would be to make a ROM to unlock them (they might need a ROM for a device with those features unlocked on that chipset from which to rip the necessary files/drivers for all I know)
And for the record, I think it might be more appropriate to say that the Sprint version is the Telus version with Sprint custommization (after all, the Telus version has come out first), rather than the other way around
and for the record the msm7200 specs sheet says it is capable of the same combinations but personally I can only remember dual band hspa in HTC's phones (the msm7200a sheet doesn't mention the combinations, just the individual bands)
solsearch said:
seems I responded more or less at the same time as jaekidd
anyways...
according to the msm7600 spec sheet it can have the following umts combinations:
2100
1900+850
2100+800
2100+1700+800
2100+1900+850
Now I personally have no idea how one could check to see what options the installed hardware has and whether they are blocking something.
no idea if a new ROM could unlock those frequencies should they be present or how easy it would be to make a ROM to unlock them (they might need a ROM for a device with those features unlocked on that chipset from which to rip the necessary files/drivers for all I know)
And for the record, I think it might be more appropriate to say that the Sprint version is the Telus version with Sprint custommization (after all, the Telus version has come out first), rather than the other way around
and for the record the msm7200 specs sheet says it is capable of the same combinations but personally I can only remember dual band hspa in HTC's phones (the msm7200a sheet doesn't mention the combinations, just the individual bands)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC FUZE (AT&T's Touch Pro) has 850, 1900, and 2100 and I assume AT&T's Touch Pro 2 will, too.
Didn't know that, just the question remians of when AT&T will get theirs out to market.
I have been doing some research and found that the RF transmiter RT6285 is capable of AWS (band IV) (1700/2100 UMTS) or T-Mobile 3G frequencies.
How can we unlock this chip and change the frequency or is it posible (the right person with the right equipment) to unsoder existing chip and transfer it to another phone?
Here are few Atachments that have intersting reading...
This explains what the AWS band is all about and how it will be divided across cariers.
http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/article.php?a=99
The other two are pinouts of the chip and how it interfaces with the MSM7200 family... What got me thinking is that T-Mobile has MyTouch (PVT32B board) and the future MyTouch Fender LE (PVT32A Board... ???) They both seem to use this RTR6285 and the board does not change from Asia to Europe to US... So the chip must be and (it seems in the technical diagrams) is capable of AWS spectrum that would make any phone with this chip able to be used on the T-Mobile or other cariers that will be using this AWS spectrum. MSM72XX is widly spread in WinMo and Android devices.
Please if someone can continue the reaserch or elaborate on the Programing or options with resodering..
Does any body know if it is possible and if so how to enable the HSPA: 850/1900 band on a Global (GSM/CDMA) Version of the TP2.
It already has the HSPA: 2100 enabled... so maybe someone RF inclined could shed some light on this question.
Thanks
I dont believe it has the hardware to do it. It is not a software tweak.
That is why so many people waited for the ATT version to come out. There is an Australian version that works on one of the bands but not both.
Sorry to say that I think you are wrong about the Hardware reason...
Apparently the Pro2 has the chip installed, but it's locked down some how. That info has been floating around from an inside source at Telus. they say it actually has 850/1900/2100 UTMS bands but just got "locked" by Telus.
Also sites like Engaget has long posted some HTC FCC info proving that; http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/20/htc-passes-cdma-gsm-hybrid-touch-pro2-through-the-fcc/
Also The TP2 uses Qualcomm's MSM7600. The specs for that processor allow two major sets of radio interfaces, only one of which supports CDMA 800 and 1900. That major set has two variants that support HSPA: 2100+800 or 2100+1900+850.
So the question is; is there anyone with the proper knowledge that can tell what is onboard the TELUS TP2 and if it has infact the variant that supports the North American frequencies, how do we enable it?
Thanks for posting with FACTS and not Thoughts as this is the only way we will get a valid answer to this question.
Hmm this is definitely an interesting idea. I'd love to have the front facing camera of the Global Version, but I still need 850/1900 UMTS
850/1900 WCDMA on Global version
Gentlemen:
While the chipset has the various frequency capabilities, it is the tuning of the antannae that determines which frequencies are recieveable , ie, turned on, in the various versions. The AT&T version has a different tuning of the antannae than the global versions.
While theoretically possible, the anatanne is part of the main board and must be physically removed and replaced. I have not been able to find a universal antannae that could be resoldered to the board, if one was brave enough to give it a try.
there is software changes to the chipset controller required as well.
I think it is pretty impractical and likely impossible to do outside of have a new board installed with the properly tuned antannae to make it work. I have researched this for some time now, in an attempt to be able to use the EU versions here in NA. I travel internationally a lot, to Asia and EU, and need the 2100 band, so that has been my motivation.
There may be someone else out there who has different information, but this is what I have learned in digging through the available data for the past 3-4 years of various HTC devices and their variants.
Hope this helps,
MWS
Is this possible?
We know that AT&T uses the 850/1900/2100 MHz US 3G bands, while T-Mobile uses the 1700/2100 MHz US 3G bands, therefore making each carrier's hardware incompatible with the other's 3G network, however I had a discussion with someone seemingly very tech savvy, who said this is most definitely NOT true.
He was certain you could flash an AT&T radio on an unlocked T-Mobile phone and get the T-Mobile phone to connect on the AT&T 3G network, and this is exactly what he plans to do once T-Moble releases the HD2/Leo this spring. He says from a hardware perspective they only stamp one type of chip at the factory, so it's the radio software that dictates whether the phone works on an 850, 1900, 1700, etc frequency.
Obviously there are early termination fees, and carrier penalties to consider, but from a pure technical perspective, is this even feasible?
no it isnt true.
countless people have tried to flash the g1 to at&t only to get edge and be disapointed.
It is sorta true. There was a phone that HTC released at one point in time that was only triband GSM which works fine with T-Mobile, since it only uses one of the American bands for its native network, 1900. Europe uses 900 and 1800 and so this phone (I think it was the Diamond Europe) was released initially only as triband GSM as well as Europe's 3G Networks. A while later HTC actually did release a radio update that unlocked 850 (which AT&T uses together with 1900 for its GSM network).
Of course my theory is that this phone was only scheduled for Europe release, especially sine it did not have any US 3G support in that varriant and due to a bug or whatever HTC's radio hid the 850 network. But because enough people imported the phone, or to improve roaming the bug or whatever was fixed and the 850 network supported.
However, this has never been done with 3G networks. Is it possibly, yes it could be. You have to remember though, that even though you enable AT&T 3G, the internal attenna needs to be able to pick it up as well so there is additional hardware design.
I'm gonna doubt this is possible.
azwildcat98 said:
He was certain you could flash an AT&T radio on an unlocked T-Mobile phone and get the T-Mobile phone to connect on the AT&T 3G network, and this is exactly what he plans to do once T-Moble releases the HD2/Leo this spring. He says from a hardware perspective they only stamp one type of chip at the factory, so it's the radio software that dictates whether the phone works on an 850, 1900, 1700, etc frequency.
Obviously there are early termination fees, and carrier penalties to consider, but from a pure technical perspective, is this even feasible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well then this person is only talking out of there ass. Making it not even feasible possible. The hardware is different. Go look at the fcc website. You will see the chips are not the same. Nothing to do with a damn "stamp"
Yeah not to use the big i too much around here, lol, but the best example is the Iphone. My wife has an Iphone jailbroken and unlocked to work on our Tmo account, and I spent a good amount of time figuring all that jailbreaking stuff out because it was interestingly similar to XDA's manipulation of Windows Mobile. I unlocked her phone. At one point I considered buying an Iphone and was really dissappointed to realize none of the Iphones on Tmobile have 3g. Althogh it sounds possible on some really technical firmware level, honestly theres millions of dollars going into jailbreaking iphones for the 30million or so on Tmo. And no one is getting 3g. Because it seems to be a problem that cannot be solved with some simple hack or crack.
Also go look at the radio threads. everyone flashes radios from any carrier looking for batt life and reception in their area. none of them seems to have magically gotten 3g out of their radios, or lost it for flashing the wrong carrier.
trevorwhopkins said:
Yeah not to use the big i too much around here, lol, but the best example is the Iphone. My wife has an Iphone jailbroken and unlocked to work on our Tmo account, and I spent a good amount of time figuring all that jailbreaking stuff out because it was interestingly similar to XDA's manipulation of Windows Mobile. I unlocked her phone. At one point I considered buying an Iphone and was really dissappointed to realize none of the Iphones on Tmobile have 3g. Althogh it sounds possible on some really technical firmware level, honestly theres millions of dollars going into jailbreaking iphones for the 30million or so on Tmo. And no one is getting 3g. Because it seems to be a problem that cannot be solved with some simple hack or crack.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is alot of things the iDont phone Dont do.
from what I have heard and seen though a friend who does development for blackberry, all the carriers use different channels for 3G. The software on blackberries show that 3G for ATT is channels 1,2,3,5 and 7 if I remember correctly. T-mobile has different ones and sprint+verizon the same. I don't think it's as easy as just swapping software...
Hi
Im looking for a TP2, I will use it outside USA mainly, is there any differences in the phone model between what is offered by the carries (I mean the case, the colors, the device modules as gps, radio or whatever, the keyboard)
As i have noticed that the T-Mobile unit is another color from the at&t and have differences in the keyboard, are there any recommendations on what to look for on this phone?
It seems that the only current options are T-Mob and At&t as they are GSM (it seems that t-mob dont have the chrome bezel or 3g support, and at&t has those but dont have camera)
There are some minor differences between the two , there was alink that gave a great deal of info on both phones that is better then this one below
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=573092
ahh here it is
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=pdacom...&id3=1792&id4=1829&id5=1766&id6=1989&id7=1751
thank you very much for the links
I see that the cdma phones (verizon, sprint) have a gsm sim port, is that true? can a TP2 cdma phone (when unlocked) be used with any sim on a gsm network? (mostly because im not very fond on the t-mob version)
Lioric said:
thank you very much for the links
I see that the cdma phones (verizon, sprint) have a gsm sim port, is that true? can a TP2 cdma phone (when unlocked) be used with any sim on a gsm network? (mostly because im not very fond on the t-mob version)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No CDMA and sim are two different things
The Major Carrier Technologies
By now, you’ve probably heard all of the acronyms in the alphabet soup of carrier technologies. The two major terms that pertain to cellular phone communication that you’re likely to run into are GSM and CDMA, the two major technologies service providers use to carry voice signals across the network. But what are they and why do they matter? Well, for starters, let’s define the terms.
GSM (Global System for Mobile Communications). GSM is the “branded” term referring to a particular use of TDMA (Time-Division Multiple Access) technology. GSM is the dominant technology used around the globe and is available in more than 100 countries. It is the standard for communication for most of Asia and Europe. GSM operates on four separate frequencies: You’ll find the 900MHz and 1,800MHz bands in Europe and Asia and the 850MHz and 1,900MHz (sometimes referred to as 1.9GHz) bands in North America and Latin America. GSM allows for eight simultaneous calls on the same radio frequency and uses “narrowband” TDMA, the technology that enables digital transmissions between a mobile phone and a base station. With TDMA the frequency band is divided into multiple channels which are then stacked together into a single stream, hence the term narrowband. This technology allows several callers to share the same channel at the same time.
CDMA (Code Division Multiple Access). CDMA takes an entirely different approach from GSM/TDMA. CDMA spreads data out over the channel after the channel is digitized. Multiple calls can then be overlaid on top of one another across the entire channel, with each assigned its own “sequence code” to keep the signal distinct. CDMA offers more efficient use of an analog transmission because it allows greater frequency reuse, as well as increasing battery life, improving the rate of dropped calls, and offering far greater security than GSM/TDMA. For this reason CDMA has strong support from experts who favor widespread development of CDMA networks across the globe. Currently, you will find CDMA mostly in the United States, Canada, and North and South Korea. (As an interesting aside, CDMA was actually invented for the military during World War II for field communications.)
Domestic Travel
The cellular showdown: CDMA (Code Division Multiple Access) vs. GSM (Global System for Mobile Communications).
Because you can find GSM and CDMA in use all across the United States, it might seem at first that it really doesn’t matter which technology you choose. This is not so. When you travel abroad, the likelihood that you will reach areas that do not have digital service is quite high. Anytime you travel between offices via car, train, or bus you will pass through rural and suburban areas that only offer analog access. Most CDMA cell phones include analog capability (also known as roaming), so a user can make calls when he is not in a digital cellular service area. GSM phones usually don’t offer this capability unless you purchase and use a specialty (read: expensive) handset. Of course in most of Asia and in Europe, this is not a problem because digital service is available almost everywhere you turn. This does become an issue for users in North America, however, because digital service is rarely available there.
Another difference between GSM and CDMA is in the data transfer methods. GSM’s high-speed wireless data technology, GPRS (General Packet Radio Service), usually offers a slower data bandwidth for wireless data connection than CDMA’s high-speed technology (1xRTT, short for single carrier radio transmission technology), which has the capability of providing ISDN (Integrated Services Digital Network)-like speeds of as much as 144Kbps (kilobits per second). However, 1xRTT requires a dedicated connection to the network for use, whereas GPRS sends in packets, which means that data calls made on a GSM handset don’t block out voice calls like they do on CDMA phones.
If you care about 3G go for Tilt2, if not go for unbranded!
I think is the best design/look of all of them
----------------
Guys! go and vote please!
Rhodium needs you
yes, thank you very much for the detailed answers
But the Cdma version of the phones (TP2) claim to be "world phones", as in the sprint phone (cdma) in the feature list they mention that they support GSM when traveling outside of the US and that you can put a GSM sim
Sprint TP2 features:
Cellular_Networks: CDMA800, CDMA1900
Cellular+Data:Links: cdmaOne, CDMA2000 1xRTT, CDMA2000 1xEV-DO
Secondary-Cellularhone
Dual:Cellular+Network;Operation: Selectable cellular module
Secondary_Cellular_Networks: GSM850, GSM900, GSM1800, GSM1900, UMTS900, UMTS2100
Secondary;Cellular Data:Links: CSD, GPRS, EDGE, UMTS, HSDPA, HSUPA
from h t t p://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=1792&view=1&c=sprint_touch_pro2_htc_rhodium_w
I would prefer the unbranded phone but only the external case design (at least for me) don't justifies the 600 to 700 bucks price tag, sprint ot tmob can be find for 360
I think I will go with a Sprint or Verizon model, even when they are CDMA they seem be dual cell (cdam and gsm) and they will work just fine on any GSM network