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alright, im a regular of the xda-devs irc. there have been more people the last 2 weeks that have come in there with questions that couldve been solved by a 2 minute read on the wiki.
i've read the annoucement, however i do not..understand what the issue was.
XDA's old wiki software was hacked and represented a security threat to the entire site.
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i'd like to ask would it not be more timely to fix the hack. i'm unsure as to what they did, however from the sound of it they got database access.
in which case, move the tables from mainserver to another and make them readonly. i cannot grasp why shutting down the wiki for weeks on end is a better idea than a few file adjustments as a stopgap.
somebody willing to put out more information on the matter?
cheapusenet said:
alright, im a regular of the xda-devs irc. there have been more people the last 2 weeks that have come in there with questions that couldve been solved by a 2 minute read on the wiki.
i've read the annoucement, however i do not..understand what the issue was.
i'd like to ask would it not be more timely to fix the hack. i'm unsure as to what they did, however from the sound of it they got database access.
in which case, move the tables from mainserver to another and make them readonly. i cannot grasp why shutting down the wiki for weeks on end is a better idea than a few file adjustments as a stopgap.
somebody willing to put out more information on the matter?
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The wiki software is old, and probably has a few vulnerabilities. I'm guessing it's more than just the wiki's database been hacked that is the securing concern. Most of the db tables will probably be written to, so read-only might not be a viable option. Remember the old wiki has integrated login with vB.
The admins have setup a new MediaWiki wiki and people are currently helping migrate the content over. I'm not sure of the "Go Live" for it, but it's starting to shape up.
Dave
i just now found it, its looking..pretty good. still seems to me an hours work on the old one could fix it enough to suffice until the new ones all ready to go.
At the moment, there's only a handful of folks working on porting (migrating) the information over.
We could use (and appreciate) any and all help on this effort. If you or others members are wish to assist, please contact svetius via PM.
Cheers,
so its still dead for the foreseable future. why is it we don't give my plan some thought. it cannot hurt. it'd be alot faster and alot better than waiting for every page to be moved over by a handful of people, and at the rate its going it's not exactly speedy.
cheapusenet said:
so its still dead for the foreseable future. why is it we don't give my plan some thought. it cannot hurt. it'd be alot faster and alot better than waiting for every page to be moved over by a handful of people, and at the rate its going it's not exactly speedy.
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Every visit to a page writes to the database, so read-only's not an option.
To use it, it still needs read access to the vB user login database, so we cannot secure XDA's vB database from it, meaning if there are SQL IV vulnerabilities someone could access parts of our vB database.
Dave
o use it, it still needs read access to the vB user login database,
^
bingo, why. why does it HAVE to access login data?
as for writing to the database stripping that code out couldnt be that hard,.
cheapusenet said:
o use it, it still needs read access to the vB user login database,
^
bingo, why. why does it HAVE to access login data?
as for writing to the database stripping that code out couldnt be that hard,.
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It will have access to the login data so that we only need one login for the wiki and for vB.
I've seen the code for it from when it was on Source Forge, it's a mess - if we miss something that could be a problem.
Also if we were still getting SQL IV attack's against read-only databases, I'd still be worried .
Dave
I've started a thread for discussion on the wiki migration:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=729576
daveshaw, you're missing my point completely. the data in the wiki is in no way dependant on userlogins. it could be moved to a completely different server if needbe, mysqlhaxing across into another db onto another server .. over xda, would be a pretty darn extravagant feat id say.
cheapusenet said:
alright, im a regular of the xda-devs irc. there have been more people the last 2 weeks that have come in there with questions that couldve been solved by a 2 minute read on the wiki.
i've read the annoucement, however i do not..understand what the issue was.
i'd like to ask would it not be more timely to fix the hack. i'm unsure as to what they did, however from the sound of it they got database access.
in which case, move the tables from mainserver to another and make them readonly. i cannot grasp why shutting down the wiki for weeks on end is a better idea than a few file adjustments as a stopgap.
somebody willing to put out more information on the matter?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As Dave mentioned, the old wiki software has inherent vulnerabilities, and because it is no longer supported, we don't get periodic updates from the creator. MediaWiki is much better supported, so that over time we can continually update the software to keep it secure, etc.
in no way am i objecting to using mediawiki. moving it all over to mediawiki is a great idea, i agree.
however restricting access to the current one for weeks just because somebody doesnt want to edit some files, jerry-rig it a bit, is a bit of a..pain for everyone. alot of data is stored in that wiki.
cheapusenet said:
in no way am i objecting to using mediawiki. moving it all over to mediawiki is a great idea, i agree.
however restricting access to the current one for weeks just because somebody doesnt want to edit some files, jerry-rig it a bit, is a bit of a..pain for everyone. alot of data is stored in that wiki.
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We're just trying to migrate it as fast as possible.
i think guy brings up a good point and perhaps a decent solution. why not allow/encourage the dev's to explain a bit more. I'm a fairly adept nerd but when i'm installing an app sometimes i'm just not sure why in the world this app needs that permission...how is my mom or sister or anyone that i advocate Android to going to figure it out? why does this app need my coarse or fine location or full network access or access to the contact list etc...
and please do not say 'if you don't like what's listed, don't install the app'. that is exactly the point of this thread. the line items in the Review Permissions window don't always make sense. how can the average end user make a educated guess with the current system...they don't, they just start doing the same thing they do on their Windows Desktops...just click right on thru it. then what happens? some jerk writes a piece of malware. user has an issue. now its all androids fault. and viola, proof that linux based devices are still too geeky for avg use.
http://tech.shantanugoel.com/2010/08/14/android-permissions-malware.html
Unfortunately, there's no denying the cold, hard facts - ignorance is not bliss. Everything has a learning curve. Time and effort must be spent to educate users as to why <this> is happening and what it is doing for them. It's sad but true. Besides, if everything that required higher learning could be easily figured out I'm sure humanity would be freed from the shackles of poverty, war and hunger by now. So, yes, permissions are too obtuse for the average user. Unless they want to educate themselves on more generalized computing skills they'll never get it.
That's just my two cents. Sorry I couldn't be of better assistance
ok. so i wish to educate myself. please provide a full and detailed example listing why which permissions may be needed/used so that i will be able to make an educated choice. where is that link again?
i'm bringing up an issue...not asking for others to chime in and tell me how stoopid the end user base is. i'm an admin for over 10yrs. trust me ... i know. in this case i am also confused as are a large numer of folks. i understand the huge development curve android has experienced over the last 18mths. my concern is that if this issue is not addressed, even the folks that would take the time to read the Review Permissions page will give up. i know i have on more than one occasion. that's a bad trend.
Wow. You bring up a good point. Didn't mean to offend you or anything. I still don't have a good answer for you but I will let you know that I only install apps that I can trust usually after researching them via Google searches and talking about them with people here. I too am an admin (been a long, long 15 years now) and if there's 2 things I learned about recommending custom Android setups they are:
- If you think the user is going to use you as Wikipedia it's probably best to leave them at stock
and
- Only recommend this kind of stuff to users who are willing to accept responsibility for their actions otherwise you'll be the fall guy every time something goes wrong.
Again, I'm sure you know this and I didn't mean to offend you so..... bye.
Users can be pretty obtuse, and I think you're completely correct about the current permission system. However, I don't think it could be made much clearer without multiplying the number of permissions. Malware can exist because users consider certain permissions to be common. Conversely, apps with a good reputation can include permissions that make them wonder, "why would they need that?" Look at keyboards and how many people freak out when they go to enable them.
One thing that would be nice for users is if you could tap on a permission and the phone would display a short explanation of that permission. They probably aren't self explanatory for everyone.
beatblaster said:
- If you think the user is going to use you as Wikipedia it's probably best to leave them at stock
and
- Only recommend this kind of stuff to users who are willing to accept responsibility for their actions otherwise you'll be the fall guy every time something goes wrong.
Again, I'm sure you know this and I didn't mean to offend you so..... bye.
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no offense. i do understand. there was a point in time where i used to openly provide paid tech support to home systems of my coworkers....it was a short point in time. lol. but i digress ... i may have come off too strong in my reply, i was just trying to prevent the thread from wandering off.
I've tried to post on this topic in the past but have not nothing useful. in and of itself, i find that kinda sad. I've even seen some folks suggest that people "take a trusting stance because most developers do not intend harm". i wish i could. but i'm out of college.
it would be wonderful if someone (ie: a google dev or just someone with knowledge of these things) were able to create a page that could give real world examples and general rules of thumb. currently i have only found a couple pages that cover a couple settings. not nearly enough to be of much use.
Saturn2K said:
One thing that would be nice for users is if you could tap on a permission and the phone would display a short explanation of that permission. They probably aren't self explanatory for everyone.
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I concur.....I look at the permissions that apps ask for all the time. However, if I see a battery management app is asking me for full internet access and access to my contacts, I just pass on it. A lot of times you can figure out if an app is requesting bogus permissions just by using common sense.
rugedraw said:
I concur.....I look at the permissions that apps ask for all the time. However, if I see a battery management app is asking me for full internet access and access to my contacts, I just pass on it. A lot of times you can figure out if an app is requesting bogus permissions just by using common sense.
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if your app is paid for by advertisements then it will need Internet Access so it can retrieve ads...thus paying the developer. often that's where i see 'coarse location' used as well...for regional specific ads. so in those cases, not nefarious use but a perfect example of what I'm talking about. thank you.
the problem with the current permissions system is twofold;
1) as mentioned, there is no details WHY or WHAT FOR a particular permission is required
2) its all or nothing, ie you can't give permission for network access and restrict access to contact list, etc. You have to accept all the requested permissions or deny and not install the app.
fwiw: There is an app in the market called "permissions" that tells you not only the permissions each app requires but it gets VERY specific. Within each permission category there is a whole list of specifics.
It won't help with apps you haven't installed yet but it's good info on the ones you already have.
*edit- Just revisited this app, it's not as detailed as I remember.
just a lil bump...
bumpity bump ...
nothing? at all?
I'm sure this question has been asked through other forums (similar threads were shown) but I couldn't find one for WP7.
I recently picked up the HTC Surround and so far I'm really enjoying it. One thing I'm missing are some apps that I had on the iPhone. Namely, WunderRadio. I don't know if, in time, they'll make this app for WP7 handsets but to be honest I'd like to try to make my own. Conceptually, the idea seems simple: have a list of streaming stations, allow the user to scroll through them, then pull the right information when a station is selected and stream it.
However, I have absolutely NO background in programming so I may very well have oversimplified the process I'm aware it's going to take some time and real effort but I do have some time on my hands and would love to give back for once. I'm hoping to refine my skills enough where I could start writing more applications. The marketplace leaves a lot to be desired when looking for apps. I'm hoping to find some books or free resources to help me get started. The cheaper the better
Any tutorials, videos, free resources would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
-- 127 views and no replies? Am I asking in the wrong forums or people really don't want to help?
There's a ton of resources on create.msdn.com and the MSDN blogs. Here is their jump start post:
http://create.msdn.com/en-US/education/catalog/article/wp7_jump_start
However, I get the feeling that writing a solid streaming radio station isn't something that's going to be easy for someone not only unfamiliar with mobile/WP7 programming, but programming altogether. You're certainly welcome to try, I'm just saying, it won't be easy.
Thanks Deeko, I'll start there.
I'm not sure if you're familiar with WunderRadio but that's basically what I'd like to accomplish. I guess I'll start with some simpler projects that aren't as involved.
Thanks again.
Request 1: Add HTML Tidy to the xda wiki stack
Template:Navbox @ Wikipedia said:
Using this template on other wikis requires HTML Tidy to be turned on. A version that does not require Tidy can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Transwiki/Template:Navbox. (That version generally shouldn't be used here on the English Wikipedia.) More detailed information on copying {{Navbox}} to other wikis can be found on the talk page.
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I've been doing a LOT of work adding stuff to the xda wiki, but I've hit an impasse, some of the most complex templates used on Wikipedia depend on it being 'scripted' with HTML instead of pure wikimarkup.
The main example is Template:Navbox. While this specific template does have a pupre wikimarkup equivilent (if it even is an equivilent, it's not maintained at the level of the normal one). The other templates I wish to use dont have equivilents.
Template:Navbox subgroup is the one (among others) that I wish to add in but cant because it depends on HTML Tidy. The Template itself is already on the xda wiki, but if you attempt to use it it's completely broken.
I cant say it's as simple as "install on server and turn it on" but the fact of the matter is that without it most of the fun/magic stuff on wikipedia cant be brought over to the xda wiki.
Some examples of recent stuff i've made (for reference):
Samsung Galaxy S Series Navbox
Samsung Galaxy S II Series Navbox
New Samsung Portal on Main page
Entirety of Dell devices page
If you look at the several navboxes I've made they have hacks in the code to get around the fact that I'm just a normal level editor.
Request 2: We need MOAR editors!
Also this doubles as a request for more editors on the wiki: XDA is the largest android development based site on the internet, yet here we are weeks after the release of the Galaxy Nexus and Galaxy Note and the pages didnt even exist until I made stubs for them.
As of this past quarter I've generated more edits then possibly nearly every other user combined, but there's only so much I can do at this point by my self. (With my primary style being to organize page layouts and tidying stuff up vs writing new content for devices)
[Edit count itself is a bad metric, but edits that arnt mine only number in the dozens a month]
Sure it's reasonable for minor devices and varients to be stubs, but the Note has sold over a million units and yet not a single person has even bothered to make as much as a scribble on the wiki about the device. That's just an example, but ultimately if this were wikipedia, the amount of pages rated 'good' or higher would only number in the dozens. (There's also the fact that my belief is that it's a bad idea to add anything intensive for a device you dont own, standard fare on one device can super-brick another due to quirks)
It's a rather sad state of affairs that for such a large web site with 22000 active users at any one time that there's not a single good consistant repeat editor besides me.
Edit: changed wording to not be inflammatory
Request 3: Turn on Subpages on the main namespace
Mediawiki:Subpages are by default enabled on the template and user namespaces, but not on the main namespace. I believe it's done this way because of editor policy and not technical reasons.
The xda wiki would HEAVILY benefit from having it enabled since it already currently manually uses them, the previous example of:
Samsung <Series>/<model number>/article has long existed this way but without the automatically generated anchors.
The majority of pages are already ready to accept it, it might simply need to be turned on.
XDA Wiki
TheManii said:
there's not a single good editor besides me.
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IMHO that is a rather sweeping statement and is likely to put off anyone from editing the Wiki. I would dispute even your claim as a good editor would not make sweeping changes to categories without discussion on the pages involved. Should I just "undo" them?
XDA has a problem with repetitive questions leading to user dissatisfaction with overlong forums and the loss of good developers such as AdamG.
One solution may be to create a FAQ Wiki for any thread over a certain size (for example 1,000 posts) and automatically link to that thread at the top of every page and above the reply box.
Cheers
Tom
It is sweeping, but the fact is there arent many repeat editors, many devices havnt not seen edits in months because a great deal of the changes dones are a one-time batch job with a single theme.
I'm not at all saying that the other editors are bad, though yes that what the impression was (and perhaps I should have worded it better). I'm saying that few wish to stay with it for the long-haul.
There's few editors that consistantly return to add/update/expand artitles for their own devices or other devices. That's my main issue. I actively want to be proven wrong in this regard, I'm inviting other to prove me wrong. I myself am somewhat guilty of this myself, I primarly concentrate on the dell devices, but I've kept them very up to date for the previous year.
One example I have issue with is: Acer A500 -xda wiki the entire page are just forum links. I have no issue at all with the contents of the posts (just as much my opinion on them is irrelevent) but the fact they are just links and not part of the article. The fact it's not on the wiki means that other editors cannot make changes themselves, which rather defeats the point of the wiki, which leads to,
The other issue is, unless the OP is excellent at keeping the thread organizied, you often have to wade though the entire thread to keep up to date. With a thread with +200 posts even if you wanted to it's a huge effort to do that. Even in the most complex of topics, they can be broken down a couple bullet points and approx a paragraph each to elaborate. There's also 'bad' advise that doesnt get edited away on topics ('bad' as in it may simply be the case that it was the right thing at the moment but there was eventually a more 'correct' method discovered later and the original 'bad' one is still reposted for whatever reason)
I could copy the posts onto the wiki verbaitm, but you really should have the poster's permission, what if the poster isnt active? It would be a bad idea to paraphrase advise/guides without context, what if you remove an important small detail. The right way to be to frequent the device and get context, but that triples the amount of work to do so properly.
It's no secret that there's always users that refuse to read topics and simply skip straight to posting repeat questions. Short pages with clear instructions are much easier to recommend then having them read though dozens and dozens of posts (which they skipped as they posted without reading in the first place)
Discussions dont really work on a wiki, esp one without consistant-repeat (or even repeat) editors. There's a fair amount of edits for various devices, but there are obviously more devices then editors. Lets walk though it: I want to make an edit, do I post it on the topic's talk page? Short of doing so on wikipiedia proper on a popular change, you wont recieve much feedback.
Do you make a post on each of their device's forums? XDA has sub-forums for each device, but not really a sub-forum for the family itself (back to the SGS/SGS2, there's the main device's subforum and each varient's subforum but none for the entire family, i think) That means making dozens of posts to talk about each major change.
What if it's an old device such as the winmo devices? The HTC HD2 is the only one left on the active part of the xda forums, because it's obviously not just a winmo device now. You're going to have to wait a very long time as they naturally only get a couple posts a month now.
Just as much, unless a mod/admin states to the contrary, you can always assume Wikipedia:Be Bold is implied to apply. I honestly have no issue if my edits are reverted if they are constructive reverts, as that's how wikis work.
If anyone has a issue with the edits I make, you're welcome to discuss it with me and hopefully we'll find a middle road.
Also I've made a reply on User_talkaveShaw#Page Name & Categories (as a fun note: & is translated to _.26_ in links while / isnt, though mediawiki has no issue with either of them, though you cannot directly use & in page names while you can use /) You should read it if the critisim is directed towards me.
tl;dr prove me wrong, Be Bold, help make the wiki better
Edit: HTC_HD2 - NexusHD2 ICS CM9 FAQ is an excellent example of why things should be on the wiki as articles instead of just merely links to a thread. It's about 3 pages of topic points and contains the majority of the topic points instead of having to read 225 (currently) pages to get the same info. (Also, just as much if I inadvertently remove valid content, revert/add it back! That was not my intention, everyone makes mistakes. The xda wiki is pretty well off in that it has little/no intentional vanadalism, you can always assume an edit is in good faith, I dont recall more then 1-2 legitamitely bad edits in nearly a year)
I've asked someone to look at Request 1.
I'm not sure what can be done about Request 2, if people don't want to maintain it, we can't make then
Thanks!
I dont really expect req 2 to be fullfilled in any real manner. Just pointing it out.
Added request 3: enable subpages on main namespace
TheManii said:
Added request 3: enable subpages on main namespace
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Our server admin has told me this has been done.
Dave
I can confirm it's on now, all the subcatagorized pages seem to be working great now
TheManii said:
I can confirm it's on now, all the subcatagorized pages seem to be working great now
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Thanks
Dave
Hello
I am standing before a tough decision and I hope someone can help me.
A recent update for my app (link) brought more complex functionality, and I'm afraid it can scare away users. Therefore I am thinking of adding some kind of guide/help section/floating balloon tips, so all would be clear and easy to understand.
My question being, what is the best approach here?
This is just a normal user speaking, but I'm really not being a fan of being greeted with a bunch of popups / overlays, even if they are meant to help. I much more prefer being able to do the thing I downloaded the app for in a quick manner right after the first startup, even if that means that I'm not using all of its features. Then, afterwards its nice to receive subtle hints every now about how to do things differently or what other goodies there are to discover.
Sorry if this isn't the most helpful answer. Do you have any specific case that you could show?
I got you
This guy is the master of user onboarding. How to do it in a non annoying way. I've used his guide to build 2 successful onboarding experiences and both time saw my retention double!
https://www.useronboard.com/