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No, this is not the usual WHY HAS MY THREAD BEEN CLOSED complain!
I just wonder if closing a thread is really useful? A closed thread still appears in the search results and therefore it does not matter how many replies it has, so, closing it is pointless!
A better idea would be to remove / delete threads if they do not contribute anything to the XDA community. This way that 'non-content threads' wouldn't even show up while searching for things.
You have a point there.
Sometimes we leave threads only closed just to let them pop up in search results to prevent another one opened for the same topic.
Sometimes there is no apperent reason not to delete it.
If you happen to find such a thread, feel free to report that thread to a mod or admin so he/she can take action.
Best Regards,
EquinoXe
I agree, most of the time we don't delete them because it causes more issues that it solves. That being said, it would probably benefit us greatly to start at some of the oldest threads and just start deleting information that is not longer relevant or useful anymore. Eventually it would greatly improve the quality of searches.
I think the Mods walk a fine line of censorship here and on other forums. Forums, especially development forums grow and evolve through the free flow of ideas and the back and forth bantering of it's members. Because of human nature this bantering often ( too often ? ) disinigrates into unproductive flaming , ego driven hard feelings and other such behaviour. At which point the Mods need to step in .
I think when a Mod steps in with a valid reason and posts why he/she is closing a thread, he/she walks on one side of the censorship line. When they close and delete all traces of a thread, I fear they cross to the other side of the censorship line.
guys, you all have the point...mike has most...
i think closed threads are good example and reminder to all members (not just juniors)
eg. i won't ask a question if i saw it in a closed thread...so you get less new useless threads and there for less work for mods...
by the way closing is best way of preserving good solved threads from being rocked with all those stupid and useless posts and replies...like thanks...it worked for me...and so on
i think as long as a post provides information or the answer to a question that may be a popular one, then it should be closed rather than deleted if the reader has further question maybe a pm to a mod to reopen it
Removed Thread
I personally have had several very offensive flame threads removed at my request by the moderators. In every instance, they were removed shortly after I reported them. Removal is a very drastic step that should be reserved for those threads that are offensive to their core. Apparently our moderators agreed with my view because the threads were removed.
So I think there is a place for removal--but do like the idea of some threads being moved to the trash forum...as an example of what not to do. Sometimes, we do put information in threads that are closed that is very valuable but fully discussed and those, as noted above, do not belong on the trash heap.
I hear the sentence 'value in older threads' quite often and surely understand the fact that nobody wants to lose such information.
So,
keeping this fact in mind, older threads still could be deleted easily if their content is covered in the WIKI. This - at least in my opinion - makes sense since the WIKI should be one of the first places users should look at before posting / starting a new thread.
A big 'task before house cleaning' would be to add anything of value to the WIKI, then the deletion of a thread wouldn't really matter but would add a bit more quality to the boards since all those 'not-more-needed' threads would be reduced to a minimum.
Junner2003 said:
So,
keeping this fact in mind, older threads still could be deleted easily if their content is covered in the WIKI. This - at least in my opinion - makes sense since the WIKI should be one of the first places users should look at before posting / starting a new thread.
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nice idea...but only in theory...because someone has to go through both the wiki and the forum to merge,replace and delete threads if they are in the wiki
you'd need people to do it...and you can't just point the finger at anyone, not even mods...they are volunteers, not slaves
generally the idea has sense and would be a good time and space preservation...you just have to do it yourself when you become so stressed and angry because of redundancy, useless info...and people in general
i tried to run some actions in cleaning the threads of those offtopics so i gathered over 200 offtopic (non htc) threads and provided them to mods...and they deleted the most
but it's a one time action....those threads will come again over time...and nobody really gives a damn about it
Personally I don't know what the solution is to this. But one thing I've found a number of times elsewhere and on XDA-developers is that if someone starts a thread that breaks online etiquette by either:
1) Not searching before hand
2) starting a thread that has already been started
3) posted in the wrong forum.
Moderators jump on it with posts about why the thread was bad. Maybe this is not an issue with the last point but sometimes you get people responding with "use the search". Problem with that is, I do use search, and when I do I get lots of threads telling me to use the search! Its actually quite difficult to know what to search for some times to even if people provided terms to search for that would help.
I don't have any present examples of this behaviour (apart from the third, which was annoying but there were genuine answers after the first page of arguments) so maybe xda-developers is better then most sites, but I thought I'd raise this issue... if it hasn't been raised already...
A quick point in addition to Mike's wonderful comments.
Most of the time I've seen people been told (and yes I do tell people too ) to use the search is when the answer is either well known to the current user base or it's easily available in the stickies or has been answered a 100 times before.
When you first come to xda the forums seem very daunting (there are still some forums I get lost / confused in i.e. the Dream) but taking your time to read throgh the stickies and wiki pages can get you setup.
Dave
i tend to read more than id like to anyay due to no social life
so i dont really tend to search
in fact ill read forums for devices i have no imntemtion of buying just out of curiosity
I USE the search function! Promise. I recall my first time here. It took me 3 different visits just to figure what phone I purchased!!
Those that have used this forum for years don't understand the sheer volume of information that is presented here. It is daunting, to say the least.
In all actuality we understand the amount of info here. Since the Kaiser the amount of phones and users on this board has grown exponentially. There are 4 regular Touch phones, the Touch Pro, Touch Hd, Dream, Diamond and however many smartphones that have hit the market in 2 years and all are supported here. The fact this place isn't a chaotic mess is due to Flar, the mods, the Wikis and THE SEARCH ENGINE. Had to do it.
Peace.
seriously, this one forum is cluttered with hundreds of threads about ROMs, Recovery, Root, Guides, and other off-the-wall stuff. Can we get subforums made specifically for ROMs, Recoveries, Root (and only Root-related discussion), and Guides? this will organize the forum more efficiently, and we won't have to sift through hundreds of threads and thousands of posts to look for what we need. thanks for the good work so far!
bump, seriously, the Evo Development forum is a mess! we really need some subforums to help keep it organized.
do u mean like this? ~> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=709267
i feel creating a entire subforum will cause more harm then good. the wikis organize things a bit and are stickied to the top of every subforum in the EVO 4G section. these wikis can be maintained and updated by all users of the forum. also it makes it possible to organize the guides and roms by type and such. i do see ur point though and that is why i created the wikis in the first place. i thought about creating a new subforum for a while, but the truth is that it will end up cluttered just the same. at least with the wiki u can look on one page and see all the roms,recoveries, and guides that relate to our device, not having to sift through the most popular to fine roms that arent. at the same time u can see that some roms are development roms and therefor still worthy of the development section. i just know from working on the Sprint HeroC that the wikis were life savers. specially months into owning the device, with old roms no longer being supported and buried by new roms. i hope this helps resolve ur issues. please PM me if u have more to add. thanx for the suggestions as ideas are always welcomed.
i just think it would make the Dev forum look a lot cleaner and organized if all the ROM threads were in a "ROMs" subforum; all the guides threads in a "Guides" subforum; all the kernel threads in a "Kernels" subforum; etc etc.
wikis are nice, and are very helpful in organizing information, but they don't make the forum look neater or any less intimidating, and the forum is where most people go for the most up-to-date information on everything.
right now, everything is just thrown into a single place. It's the equivalent of having a single forum called "HTC Phone Discussion" that is flooded with 1000s of threads related to MyTouch's, Evo's, Diamonds, Dreams, Hero's, Nexus', HD2's, etc etc. it's really inefficient and hard to sift through because everyone's threads are getting lost in the forum. albeit, on a much smaller scale, but you get the point.
agreed
Yes, def be a big help...
I feel we do need to keep better control over the threads and make a few different sections.
yeah - would definitely make things easier.
I agree. At least group some threads, such as tons and rooting guides (there's plenty of those!) This would help make other threads a little easier to find. Not everything needs a subforum, but some things would fit naturally. With evo dev so hot right now many threads are getting buried faster then you can find them.
+1 on this, the Nexus One android development forum also has the same issue, it is full of Rom's (which is great) but you cannot find the actual development threads any more..
yeah, we dont need a subforum for everything. i think 2 will suffice: "ROMs/Kernels/Recovery" and "Guides".
+1 to this suggestion for N1 too.
bump.
do the admins even read this board?
cnstarz said:
bump.
do the admins even read this board?
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Of course we do! We'll have a resolution in the coming days. Sorry for the delay.
no worries. my thing is this:
why does xda have forums for every phone they support; why not just create a single wiki for every single phone? because having just one forum and wiki for 100 different phones is ridiculous. it'd be impossible to keep up with updates because everything would get burried. the same thing is happening to the dev forum.
I have been a member since March 2011 sometime - can't remember the exact date. I bought an Optimus P500 to replace my ageing Palm Treo 680. As soon as I started using the phone I was sucked into the who gamut of ROMs and improving the performance of the stock OS. Obviously, it was through the Development Forums. I am likely one of the older members using these forums - 65 years. I have now been going through the forums for things of my interest for over 2 months on a daily basis. Some of the practices and behaviour in the development forums are causes for concern as they reduce the productivity of the people who work on the developments. I am listing some and hope that the administrators of XDA will take some steps which can help in rectifying the situation.
1. People are unwilling to spend even 2 mins to search for what has been answered a hundred times - exaggeration perhaps but definitely tens of times.
2. People are unwilling, or to be less charitable unable, to read anything carefully and are just rushing to implement something new.
3. They will ask a question even when the answer is in plain words ad nauseum.
4. They will try things which are dangerous without learning enough and then flood the forums in several threads about how they have run into a problem and can someone help them. I have run into some problems but have been able to search the forums for solutions and it did not take more than 10-15 mins of time. In the bargain I learnt a lot more.
5. People are writing merely to express their satisfaction at something happening or about to happen or to praise a developer. There is a system of expressing your thanks/satisfaction. Why not use that instead of saying two words which add nothing to the development forum?
6. It is easy to identify those who are at fault and are reducing the effectiveness of the people on the development forums. Why not have a series of measures setup to gradually weed them out and let them vent their sentiments on the General Section?
7. The criteria of having someone post 10 times to the General or Q & A sections getting eligible to post in the Development Forums needs review. In one of the forums on automobiles which I use they are much more strict in enforcing posting etiquette and in weeding out totally useless members who are only looking to see their own comments on the web. I am sure we are ingenious enough to work out a more effective criteria/system.
I am not against contribution to development forums but i am against wasting time and space by writing 'Aha what fun we are going to get an update tomorrow'!
Cliff notes?
have ppl interested in the topics posted read the threads - at least the highlights. In fact the answer to the question how the forum usage and user experience could be improved might be an option that allows readers to look at a summary of the thread first showing the most helpful / informative responses... of course someone by some means needs to select the topics which will be added to the summaries.
On certain threads questions are repeated cause there are over 1000 pages of responses so i'd much rather repeat a question than spend countless hours looking through pages
I agree that people need to do some research instead of asking questions that have been answered a bunch of times before.
I'm not on the same page when it comes to people posting gratitude or excitement. Yes there is a thanks button, but sometimes you want to go the extra mile and tell them how you feel. After all, this is a community. We aren't robots and humans like to interact with each other. It's easy to skim past these types of post because it's always obvious what they are about. It also adds more posts to the threads and moves them to the top and there is nothing wrong with that.
I like the thanks button as well, because it will be obvious to people who see your name that you are helpful and someone that will probably help them with questions they might have and not be a total **** if they get a PM.
omjhd said:
On certain threads questions are repeated cause there are over 1000 pages of responses so i'd much rather repeat a question than spend countless hours looking through pages
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I agree completely. 1000, hey even 100 pages in a thread can be daunting! That's why there is a search tool (and a very good one at that).
Example: I just installed a new ROM on my Incredible S. The thread for the ROM contains 50 pages. In real life, I'd sit there and read it. That's just me. Put aside half an hour, get to know the issues people are having, the issues that have been covered, and what's still in progress. Your chances of running into issues during the install are quite often significantly lessened by reading the whole thread through. There are also some awesome hidden gems in amongst some of the posts which are worth looking for (extra themes, battery indicators, patched programs and launchers, etc.)
I understand that not everyone has the time to read an entire thread, and that's quite okay. But if you have enough time to look for a new ROM, check some screenshots, download it, install it, then run into issues and post a quesion - you have enough time to search a thread. All you have to do is hit the 'search thread' button, give the tool a couple of keywords ('launcher force close', 'bluetooth headset no sound' etc.) and see what it throws back. If it throws you an answer, all well and good. If it doesn't try a few more keywords, then post your question. At least you've done your research!
In the end, what you do is up to you. Know, however, that you stand a much better chance of getting the answer you are looking for (not just a rude single sentence - an actual answer that will help you) if you put in a little bit of effort before you ask the question.
Welcome to the largest smartphone development forum on the internet
Try being a moderator! Trust me, some of those things you listed are something we have tried to reduce for a long time, but when you have a forum with almost 4 million members, keeping everyone under control is not something we can always do 100%.
Feel free to make any suggestions as to how things can be improved. We are always welcome to hear ideas.
omjhd said:
On certain threads questions are repeated cause there are over 1000 pages of responses so i'd much rather repeat a question than spend countless hours looking through pages
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That's why we have a "search" function.
the_scotsman said:
Welcome to the largest smartphone development forum on the internet
Try being a moderator! Trust me, some of those things you listed are something we have tried to reduce for a long time, but when you have a forum with almost 4 million members, keeping everyone under control is not something we can always do 100%.
Feel free to make any suggestions as to how things can be improved. We are always welcome to hear ideas.
That's why we have a "search" function.
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Amen.
/10char
What's with all the negativity and aggression in the DHD Dev Forum? I came by a Sensation to 'practice' on so I didn't brick my DHD being a noob when it comes to all this, and I managed to have it rooted and running custom ROMs in no time thanks to the very helpful STICKY'S - take note DHD Dev Mods - and felt confident that I could wander over to the DHD part of XDA with the condifence that it would be just as streamlined and easy to read. But what do I find? Massive CAPS everywhere, bold red writing carrying warnings, and a generally negative and maybe even elitist atmosphere. You're doing no favours being so blinkered in your approach to that forum, and the Sensation side of XDA puts this to shame - maybe not in content, as it's only just getting going - but in general ease of use, browsing, and helpfulness, they've got you whipped hands down. So to qualify this as a question rather than a rant - can somebody explain why this is, and if it is likely to be tidied up and changed? Because frankly, it's a bit of a mess at the moment.
Good point well made.... Not a nice atmosphere at all....
The atmosphere in the DHD Dev thread has been that way for the last few months. Or at least that's when I noticed it being a little bit on the sour side compared to what I was used to.
I can't say for certain that I know why this change came about but I think it had something to do with a growing suspicion that some people taking others work and labelling it as their own. Not asking beforehand, refusing to acknowledge afterwards. There were accusations of theft being bandied about too but I am not up to speed on those.
To be honest, my experience here has been great, despite whatever (sometimes imagined) mood the threads seem to present. Everyone I have PM'd for help/advice has been friendly and accommodating.
I too notice the aggression, you will find these posts in dev sections of almost every phone thread on xda. I think due to the popularity of the Desire HD has lead to the mass posts and moderators regulating to the point where the atmosphere is unwelcoming.
We are in the process of cleaning up the whole site. As for being able to find things in the sensation threads that IS because the threads are still new. Wait a bit and the VS threads will pop up. As for unwelcoming that is not true. We welcome all to the threads with the understanding that this is a development based forum and people are expected to put in their own effort by searching and reading, which few seem to do but instead make threads about questions answered a hundred times over.
Will the threads be getting cleaned up. Yes they will. This is a large site and we all do this on our free time so it is a large job but we are making progress.
As for the warning in red. Yes it has come to this and more. For far to long as the site been getting filled with pointless threads, flaming, and overall rudeness which will no longer be tolerated. As for people using others work without asking. Yes this is and always will be a problem. We can ban people for it left and right but then they just go somewhere else and still use it.
zelendel said:
We are in the process of cleaning up the whole site. As for being able to find things in the sensation threads that IS because the threads are still new. Wait a bit and the VS threads will pop up. As for unwelcoming that is not true. We welcome all to the threads with the understanding that this is a development based forum and people are expected to put in their own effort by searching and reading, which few seem to do but instead make threads about questions answered a hundred times over.
Will the threads be getting cleaned up. Yes they will. This is a large site and we all do this on our free time so it is a large job but we are making progress.
As for the warning in red. Yes it has come to this and more. For far to long as the site been getting filled with pointless threads, flaming, and overall rudeness which will no longer be tolerated. As for people using others work without asking. Yes this is and always will be a problem. We can ban people for it left and right but then they just go somewhere else and still use it.
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Thanks for the response. It's good to hear that the mods are aware of the current issues affecting DHD and the site as a whole. I had written a much larger response but then this ridiculous PC (MoD use the very latest technology...) presented me with BSOD.
I hope that things will improve in the near future, as a beginer with Android, it does certainly seem pretty daunting in the dev forum with some serious digging being required to find useful information, and it would be a lot easier if it were all in one handy place. There is certainly an air of 'knowledge is power' there - and I'm sure nobody can say that is how they wished to be treated when they first joined the community (which is in breach of the forum rules btw). 'We had to deal with it, so now you do' doesn't exactly foster a feeling of being welcome.
Thanks again for replying though, I can't say newcomers are ingnored can I!