Develop Bugs

What is Ext Rom ?

I am a newbie and just bought my first PDA phone - O2 Atom
Trying to learn as much about it so that I can fully utilize it.
Reading the posts in this site is my first step.
I know this may sound stupid to the experienced users but
I've been reading posts asking about unlocking the Ext. Rom
What is the purpose of doing this ? What are the additional things I can do if I can unlock my ext. Rom vs just leaving the device "as is" ?
Anyone care to enlighten me ?

When you unlock the ext-rom you can see what's in it? Also you can turn it writeable, so you can do anything you like with it, make a copy of the content first. As it it persistent storage on most devices the content won't be erased by hard-reset.
On my magician for instances the ext-rom is concatenated to the internal storage folder enlarging it from 7 to 27MB.
Regards, M

Basically, the ext (extended) rom includes extra settings like operator network settings, extra operator programs and operator visual customisations. Really, if you are new to this, it is best to leave as-is, as unlocking only allows you to edit the Ext rom, which you will probs not want to do yet.

Thanks all for the info. I guess I need to find out more before I try this.
There seems to be 3 kinds of memory on my device:
1. Storage
2. Memory Card
3. Device (which itself seems to be broken into 2 ? One for programs and another for program storage ?)
One of the reasons I asked this question is because I encountered a low memory warning but when I checked the Settings/memory 1 & 2 still showed lots but on the General tab it showed Storage as .5KB left not sure how to interprete the info.

The memory on your device is called RAM & is devided dynamically, by the OS, in a storage & a program part. When you install programs Via Act.sync & choose default they end up in ram, program files folder, this will cost precious space to run an application. So try to install to SD or storage folder. that's why BS is nice. You can use cabinstl to choose where you want to install when you install a cab directly on your magician.
Got the idea

You mentioned the operator blah blah.. does that means that i can unlock my simcard by unlocking the ext rom?

no extented rom and sim locks are 2 different things

Actually, oltp is a bit mistaking in his description of the memory regarding your specific phone.
The Atom is Windows Mobile 5 device.
On WM 5 phones there are two physical types of memory:
RAM and FLASH.
Unlike in older models, on WM 5 the RAM also called 'program memory' is only used to run programs, just like RAM in your PC.
The ROM or flash memory (slower, but isn't erased when power is lost) is divided in to 3 partitions:
ROM / OS - locked partition where the operating system resides. Only special tools like ROM upgrade utilities can write to this section.
Ext ROM - a locked partition where the operator / vendor of the phone stores some extras which are automatically installed after hard reset. As you already know you can unlock it and use as regular storage. Any data stored there will not be erased during hard reset.
Storage memory - this is the part of internal memory (flash) where you can install apps and store your documents and other files. Just like a PC hard drive.

...
Is there a sticky or a thread somewhere about editing ROM/Ext.Rom?
Thank you.

It's all in the WiKi!

getting rid of extrom

hi,
this might be a stupid question being asked and answered 20 times before but i didn't find anything and that's why i'm asking here in particular:
is there a way to get rid of the extrom?
i did this with my blueangel before and it was easy and since the universal has too little memory for my needs and the programs in my extrom suck, i want to do it with that device too. plus i don't want the extrom to be flashed and compiled into a nbf file, but, again, comparable to the extrom for the blueangel i want it to be pt simply on the sd card, which brings the enormous advantage to be highly customizable and i don't need to carry around cabs (in the moment for programs that i don't want anyway) while i don't have space for the programs i need.
so my actual question would be:
- can i use repart_doc.exe and xda-unlock.cab to resize the extrom to 128kb and put an extrom on the sd card instead?
- does the extrom have the same format as on the blueangel (autorun.exe, cfg.txt, bunch of cabs)?
- can i do that in wm6.1, because on the BA i had to go back to wm2003 and couldn't do it in wm5 and above?
greetz, Chef_Tony

Don't think that by getting rid of extrom you will increase your memory. I think maybe blueangel was able to change amount of memory used between storage and program. This is not possible on uni, and it's set at 64MB a piece.
Perhaps wiki:MemoryStorageTypes will help.

the point is: it is generally possible, i know that from the blueangel, and it has nothing to do with the ratio of "program memory" to "storage memory" because that only exists for ramdisks, like back in the day in wm2003. the extrom is always a part of the storage space, just that it's hidden and locked by default, and with the blueangel you could easily resize it.
to explain a little more, since apparently this is not known to universal users:
the blueangel in wm2003 has:
32mb rom
112mb ram (program memory and ramdisk storage space, dynamically, still both lost in power failure)
44mb storage
16mb extrom
for wm6.5:
32mb rom (nothing changed so far)
112mb ram (ONLY program memory, RAM like known from the pc)
60mb storage (old storage space + old extrom made to one partition, usable for installing programs and storing files.)
don't get me wrong, i appreciate your answer, it just doesn't quite get my point.
and about your link:
let me quote a small passage:
Code:
ExtendedROM
Type: Internal Storage
Size: Is usually 9.96MB
What: Extra memory which doesn't survive a soft-reset.
Use: Anything you don't mind losing :)
eh?: This could be considered as a RAMDrive on a PC (that is, in that it's volatile, but not that it takes up any Program Memory)
+info: I use this for all cache (eg PIExplorer, Opera etc)
NB. Again, this is either made available or wasted space you can't use (see FlashDisk NB).
really? the extrom is lost after a soft reset? and how does it install the system enhancements after a hard reset? /irony
the contents of that article are simply wrong. or maybe something got mixed up...
i will just give it a try with the blueangel's tools, and if it works, i will re-post because it will revolutionize the way to look at roms, like it did in the BA section, although i fairly doubt that it would work since i can impossibly be the first to think of something like this.
thanks for your answer,
cheers,
Chef_Tony

ok, i fugured out how to unhide and unlock the extrom and deleted the contents. if i manage to join the former extrom, now "storage" with the original storage space, i finally can use the full memory potential of the device. if anyone wants to give me a hint, i would really appreciate it. probably then, the extrom can also be installed from the sd card and my original plan, not to carry around useless cab files, finally worked.

You are right, I've changed the wiki. Storage does survive soft rest (I wonder if it survives a hard-reset).
VNint did some tutorial on combined storage - can be found here. And Cotulla made a ROM - can be found here.
Hope this is helpful.

great to have you here at the Universal forum Chef_Tony. Sorry I can't offer any technical assistance, just came to give some encouragement
Keep up the good work!

-Jonny- said:
You are right, I've changed the wiki. Storage does survive soft rest (I wonder if it survives a hard-reset).
VNint did some tutorial on combined storage - can be found here. And Cotulla made a ROM - can be found here.
Hope this is helpful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great change -Jonny-!!!
It is getting better every day!

Deleting Stock WinMo 6.1 ROM Files

Is there any way to Remove some Stock WinMo 6.1 ROM Files ? There are a few Pictures that I don't need in the Windows Folder (Album Sample) and they range between 412k ~ 842k each so there is a couple Megs of Storage Space that could be gained by Removing them any Info is appreciated.
Thanks

LGK1 said:
Is there any way to Remove some Stock WinMo 6.1 ROM Files ? There are a few Pictures that I don't need in the Windows Folder (Album Sample) and they range between 412k ~ 842k each so there is a couple Megs of Storage Space that could be gained by Removing them any Info is appreciated.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those pictures are save to remove or relocate (backup/save on your PC or whatever)...when you're looking at them in file explorer in the phone, just press+hold on any of the file names, and a menu will pop up with the option to delete.

sirphunkee said:
Those pictures are save to remove or relocate (backup/save on your PC or whatever)...when you're looking at them in file explorer in the phone, just press+hold on any of the file names, and a menu will pop up with the option to delete.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But that's where I run into the Problem I have Resco Explorer installed and get a Message that says:
File '\Windows\Album Sample_01.jpg'
is in ROM memory!
You cannot delete it.
I tried thru regular File Explorer and the Delete Option is grayed out......

Yeah you know what, I had deleted all those pics right when I first got the phone, via the album view I think...but obviously (now) it retains a copy of them in that odd protected status you discovered. Looking at the pics in the /windows folder now, there's even some of those "album sample" ones that I've never seen before.
Sorry, I thought I'd already removed them from my phone cuz I didn't see them anywhere I'd expect to Some of the chefs around here will probably know if there's a way to trim that fat out of the windows folder, that's the kind of thing they're good at when assembling ROMs.

It's very simple people.
ROM stands for Read ONLY Memory. Think about what that means.
The only way to change what is on your ROM is by flashing, or I suppose you could use a hammer.
That's it.

dik23 said:
It's very simple people.
ROM stands for Read ONLY Memory. Think about what that means.
The only way to change what is on your ROM is by flashing, or I suppose you could use a hammer.
That's it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And besides, removing these files from ROM would not free up space in RAM! Short answer, they're not taking up space that would be useful to you otherwise.

Ok then, I understand if the files in there are just unable to be deleted, but...
-If it's truly "ROM" (read-ONLY memory) on the phone, then how can it be flashed to a different one? In other words...the ROM image may indeed be read-only, but the physical memory it sits on isn't, correct?
-Doesn't the ROM image occupy a set amount of the on-board storage memory, that would otherwise be free for local storage? Therefore, some cooked ROM's eat up more/less space than others, affecting how much room is left for the user to store files etc, n'est pas? I think the OP's purpose was to try to free up storage space if possible, not just RAM overhead.
Again, I get it if the files baked into a ROM image can't be deleted once it's cooked...I'm just thinking that a ROM without unneccessary files in it WILL save usable space on the phone.

Read Only Memory
ROM is "usually" only ever read. In the day to day use of the device you are reading data from it. Kind of like a printed page from a laser printer
When you flash the ROM, you are actually writing to it, like when the laser printer prints the page. To get a new page, you need a laser printer. To get a new rom, you have to have a program to flash it.
After it is done printing, nothing changes on the page and it can only be read.
Same thing with a ROM, the amount of space will not change until it is flashed.
"-If it's truly "ROM" (read-ONLY memory) on the phone, then how can it be flashed to a different one? In other words...the ROM image may indeed be read-only, but the physical memory it sits on isn't, correct?"
Yes and no
A more accurate term would be Read Only Memory That Can Still Be Written To, But Isn't Very Often.
ROM has a better feng shui
"-Doesn't the ROM image occupy a set amount of the on-board storage memory, that would otherwise be free for local storage? Therefore, some cooked ROM's eat up more/less space than others, affecting how much room is left for the user to store files etc, n'est pas? I think the OP's purpose was to try to free up storage space if possible, not just RAM overhead."
No, there is RAM and ROM, these are separate, and have different functions.
"Again, I get it if the files baked into a ROM image can't be deleted once it's cooked...I'm just thinking that a ROM without unneccessary files in it WILL save usable space on the phone."
No, a ROM without unneccessary files in it WILL save usable ROM storage space.
I hate to say it, but hit the wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read-only_memory
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory
Once you understand the types of ram, and how and more importantly WHY they are used, this will make sense.

Cingularly Twisted said:
A more accurate term would be Read Only Memory That Can Still Be Written To, But Isn't Very Often.
ROM has a better feng shui
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL great analogy, thanks
That's what I suspected, but just wanted to be sure!

Why is my HTC Desire have 139 of ram ?

Hi to all i have buy the HTC Desire from http://www.clove.co.uk and my device have only 139 of ram ?
Uploaded with ImageShack.us

It's normal, every Desire has around 140mb free for apps. I think Android takes some and Sense takes some, and some is reserved probably for whatever reason. Leaving you with 140mb. Google has announced that it will be possible to install apps on the SD Card in the near future. Don't worry about it.

Everyone has the same amount of memory as yours, The rest of the memory is used by Operating system, If you want to install more apps then go for "root" and install A2SD. you can find loads of topics here and at modaco. Go through the desire sections properly and u will find all the answers to your questions.

it's rom not ram *sigh*

oh thanks for all

i always use this very simple explanation
Let's say you have some land and would like to build a parking on it.
The size of your land is 100 square meters
Each car needs 10 square meters....but in the end you can't park ten cars on the your land , because you have to deducted the white lines etc....this is the same thing with Hard drives etc .......some KBytes are needed for the root system etc.....

crypta said:
it's rom not ram *sigh*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong, it's RAM.

ToxicWasted said:
Wrong, it's RAM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong to all that are saying to install app2sd. OS and applications are installed in the ROM, but launched in the RAM.

ROM = Read Only Memory
RAM = Random Access Memory
All of the application memory in the phone is non-volatile RAM.
Traditionally a ROM can only be written by flashing it offline. This is to say that runtime read/write access is atypical.
Proceeding from this premise, the only real ROM(s) in the phone are the radio and boot images. The rest of the memory holds a normal rw file system.
In theory, all of the "ROM's" here are not really ROM's at all, they're operating systems... much like Windows is an OS, not a ROM.

so I am interested in your suggestion fpr normal forum talk, to sort these things out.
in the technical explanation you are mostly right.
so how you would call the storage and the working memory in one simple term?

crypta said:
so I am interested in your suggestion fpr normal forum talk, to sort these things out.
in the technical explanation you are mostly right.
so how you would call the storage and the working memory in one simple term?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
v-ram (volatile ram = working space)
nv-ram (non-volatile ram = storage space)
- In pure engineering terms this isn't true but the paradigm is to treat memory allocation as volatile.
But then, it does become semantic very quickly. It used to be that the only thing many people ever flashed were roms... this was because traditionally the only type of nv solid state storage that the average person had access to was a rom - never needed to flash ram because it was (mostly) volatile (yes, there are exceptions). The point being that people associated "flashing" with "roms" when "flashing" should really be associated with "solid state memory" (of any description).
So, the correct term is "flashing" yes, but we've incorrectly incorporated/encompassed the term "rom" in the extended definition.
If you flash a boot image you're doing a rom flash
If you flash a radio image you're doing a rom flash
If you "flash" a CyanogenMod "ROM" (for example) you're actually just copying an archive to a file system, expending it and executing it.
And all rather pointless because we all know what everyone means when they say "I flashed my phone"

funny to see this threads next to each other:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=675703
and clearly, theres no ROM like in commodore time (c64 / amiga), but it is called so, even in the specs of many devices.

crypta said:
so I am interested in your suggestion fpr normal forum talk, to sort these things out.
in the technical explanation you are mostly right.
so how you would call the storage and the working memory in one simple term?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HDD hard disk drive - where user files such as images, videos, music are stored
ROM read only memory - where the system lies (normally can not be written to)
RAM random access memory - memory in which applications are launched and remain until ended (for example anti-virus software will stay in the RAM)

[Q] "com.HTC" process/application

Firstly I wasn't 100% sure where I should place this, so if it is felt that it is in the wrong place and the mod has to move it then please accept my apologies in advance.
I have been trying to free up space on my HTC Desire. I have looked at it from a number of angles, I have rooted the phone, moved all the applications I can to the SD card, deleted the cache, deleted messages... the list goes on. And I still am unable to get free space. Truth be told I am at a loss working out what it is using up all this space.
During my trundles through the Jungle that is my phones file system (Not used to the Linux style system) I found that the system application/process is called "com.HTC" is using 17.6 mb and "Touch Input" is using 7.7 mb - all in all a lot of space. Not I assume that the "Touch Input" is something to do with (or possibly all of) the Sense UI - which I like. So I was wondering what "com.HTC" is?
The reasoning behind my asking is that I am thinking of getting a ROM with a more simplistic interface if I get a lot more space.
Can anyone shed any light on my problem, or does anyone have any advise?
I like my interface but I like being able to have more apps even more.
Thanks

If you are considering switching rom's, just start with a normal sense rom with A2SD+. In that case you keep the stock rom look and feel but you will have more space to install apps, the only thing extra you have to do for this is make a ext partiton on the sd card before flashing.
If after this you still don't have enough space you can look in to data2sd or flashing a AOSP rom with custom hboot layouts. Both these things will give you more space but they are also more advanced.
So more info about A2SD can be found here: http://www.miui-au.com/faq/a2sd/