Develop Bugs

More email/Gmail woes - Moving emails

I've spent a long time trying to get a good system of emails going with my Desire, but every option has issues. I must be one of few people who doesn't like K-9. I won't bore you with reasons here, but just so you know, that isn't currently an option for me until various bugs are fixed.
I prefer push emails and although there seems to be disagreement between some people, the Gmail app does seem to push and be fairly quick, although not usually instant. It's good enough for me though. The stock email client doesn't push and doesn't poll for messages very quickly so is a little too slow.
For my Gmail setup I use IMAP and have my own bin for 'deleted' emails, as I don't want Gmail removing them after 30 days from it's own bin. My PC's client (Thunderbird) kindly places 'deleted' emails in my own folder called MyBin, which Gmail is happy about. However, I cannot get the Gmail app on my Desire to do anything other than send deleted messages to Gmail's bin. I see no option to map the Gmail app's trash to my own folder, or as Gmail likes to say, to 'change labels'. I've looked at creating a filter too but can't see how I'd set that up to just filter messages from the bin and nowhere else.
Any suggestions please? Failing suggestions I'll just delete emails on my PC instead for now. I was hoping to not have to do things like that any more after receiving my Desire though.

[Q] saving emails

Seeing how HTC have now screwed up email storage so that once the email is deleted from the original source it is also deleted from the phone, is there a way to save certain emails in another folder?
Or does anyone know if HTC are aware of this problem and are working on it? It started after the Froyo update.

The way you're describing it, it doesn't sound like HTC (or Google) screwed up anything.
If I delete an email from the server, I would expect that same email to be deleted on my phone. This is the very definition of "synchronization". Whatever happens on one device will happen to every other device that synchronizes with it.
If you intend to keep an email, why would you delete it off the server?
Why not create an archive folder to store the emails you want to save and then set up your phone to sync that folder? Or just leave it in your inbox. You can choose to flag it if you want to be able to spot it faster.
Btw, you didn't mention how you're connecting to your email. Exchange, POP, IMAP?

I'm connecting with POP. Now up until the Froyo update I could leave emails on my phone for as long as I wished by setting the Send & Receive settings - Download Options - By Days - All and it made no difference. Since the update it deletes the phone's inbox whenever I delete mail from the server it came from.
I won't go into why I delete from that server - it's to do with having access to mail on three different devices and how they collect it.
There are ways around it but it means having to delete things manually from the server and making sure a few are kept until I don't need them on the phone any longer.
Can I save emails on the phone in another folder that I create?

It doesn't sound like you should be using POP3 at all. POP3 is suitable if you access your email using one client only. Once you access your email server with POP3 from more than one client, it just gets very messy. Each client's inbox contents will be different from one another.
If possible, you should always connect via IMAP4 or Exchange. As a plus, they allow you to synchronize folder structures.
I've always found that POP3 causes a lot of trouble for me. Always end up with mysteriously deleted emails on either server or client.

I understand what you're saying, but if I use IMAP, does that not mean that the emails only stay on the phone as long as they are on the server, leaving me in the same predicament?
At the moment, I have all my email go to a webmail service. From there it fwds to my ISP and from there to my home computer where it remains permanently. Now, at the same time, I have a laptop that gets the mail from the webmail and then deletes it off the server. I also have my phone which gets the mail from the webmail but leaves it undeleted so the laptop can also get at it (once it's on the laptop, I don't care if it's on the phone). BUT, there are some emails that are good to have saved on the phone like flight info, etc for when I travel for work.
Not as confusing as it sounds and this works best for us as my wife and I share the address and we can see all the mail at any time on any device.
From what I understand of IMAP, once it is deleted from the webmail, it also disappears on any computer that is using IMAP. I want to make sure that certain messages are on the hard drive of any device at any time.
If you know better, then I'm all ears!

First, yes, using IMAP will mean that deleting the email off the server will effectively delete it off your phone.
But I still think you should use IMAP but just change your behavior a bit.
- Connect via IMAP with your PC and your phone.
- Create 2 folders under your Inbox. Name it appropriately. (eg "Attn needed" and "Archive"). Remember to setup your email clients on both your PC and phone to sync these folders as well.
- If you have any emails where action is required, then leave it in your Inbox or put it in the "Attn needed" folder.
- If you have any emails where you just want saved, then put it in "Archive" folder.
- Delete emails only when you're absolutely sure you will never need them.
It sounds like you delete your emails because you don't want to use up all your server space. To get around this, just do the following. (I'm assuming you are using MS Outlook but you should be able to do this with other email clients like Mozilla Thunderbird, etc)
- Create a Personal Folder. In Outlook, these are *.pst files. Name it appropriately. (eg. "Old emails")
- Every month or so, just do a quick cleanup by moving all the mails you don't want on the server into the Personal Folder which is saved locally on your PC. (Keep in mind that the moved mails will no longer be available on your phone as well.)
Alternatively, try the following. This is easier and more automated. But depending on your needs, it may not be appropriate for you.
- Connect via IMAP with your PC and your phone.
- Create a new Gmail account.
- On your PC email client, set a rule so that each new email gets forwarded to the Gmail account.
- This way, you can delete mails off your phone, PC, or server as much as you want. A copy will always be available in Gmail. As a bonus, the search feature in Gmail is just great. (If you want to save all outgoing emails as well to Gmail, just bcc yourself on your emails)
- For emails that needs your attention, just flag it. In the HTC Email application, you can filter out all the flagged emails by sliding over to the "Marked" tab.

OK - thanks for all the advice. I will start having a go at those ideas and see how it works out.

simon12 said:
OK - thanks for all the advice. I will start having a go at those ideas and see how it works out.
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Simon,
The fact that the device can't store emails once they come off the server is total bs. In fact, I have the same problem which DID NOT OCCUR when on 2.1. As soon as I put froyo on it started to happen.
THIS IS NOT NORMAL!!! All my blackberries never did this nor did my desire on 2.1. There is something wrong with froyo on certain devices and HTC does not have an answer yet.
Go to your setting in outlook and check off the 'leave emails on server' option for 3,7 or however many days you think you need.
Cheers.

I have contacted HTC and they tell me this is a new 'feature' of Froyo. That I should not delete emails from the webmail if I want the phone to keep them. I replied to them that if I wanted this feature I would use IMAP and not POP3.
I have requested that they reinstate a proper use of POP3 and I would suggest to anyone else to email them on their support page and ask the same. I they realise how many of us are annoyed at this then they may do something about it.

simon12 said:
I have contacted HTC and they tell me this is a new 'feature' of Froyo. That I should not delete emails from the webmail if I want the phone to keep them. I replied to them that if I wanted this feature I would use IMAP and not POP3.
I have requested that they reinstate a proper use of POP3 and I would suggest to anyone else to email them on their support page and ask the same. I they realise how many of us are annoyed at this then they may do something about it.
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Can you believe that these clowns are calling it a 'feature?'...they honestly must we're stupid or something. How can auto-deleting emails be a 'feature'??? Why cant I simply delete them myself like on Gmail? ALso if this is a 'feature' why is it then that some handsets do it while others don't???

[Q] Exchange folder sync

For Exchange mail accounts, I'm assuming you can select which folders you want to sync (have pushed to the phone) - correct?
And for multiple accounts, can you set different notification (vibrate, sound) types per account?

Go to the folders of the Exchange Account and show all folders. You will then be presented your folders. Select the folder you want to sync and tap on that folder. It will then sync and bring it up one level and you will see that folder below your main inbox.
You can't set custom ring tones to each account.

1. yes (at first only inbox will, but you can view the folder and say syncronise this folder)
2. no, not at present

My company just migrated me to Exchange last night. I'm able to sync my in box and the folders I want to sync but I have rules on Exchange that move some emails into certain folders. Once this happens I'm not getting notified that I have a new email from that person who the rule is set for.
Any suggestions?

It doesn't support alerting when items appear in subfolders of the inbox. A workaround would be to turn those rules off so messages arrive in your inbox. Then run the rules manually periodically to clean it up.

Does it at least update the Hotmail/Outlook Live Tile when a new mail comes to the sub-folder?
Without any sort of notification to the user that a message is there, it's pretty damn useless to use. Mind as well just use POP3 or IMAP on a 30 minute poll or something instead...

N8ter said:
Does it at least update the Hotmail/Outlook Live Tile when a new mail comes to the sub-folder?
Without any sort of notification to the user that a message is there, it's pretty damn useless to use. Mind as well just use POP3 or IMAP on a 30 minute poll or something instead...
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No it doesn't update the tile, you can sync the sub folders but if you don't select all folders to see if there is anything new there.
The only work around I could find was to create a rule to just move a copy to the folder and leave the original in the inbox. It is a terrible solution but at least it kind of works.
I don't think this is a WP7 issue since a co-worker has an iPhone and he has the same issue.

Gmail Account: Delete Function Does Not Sync Back to Google?

I've added a Google account to my WP7 (Using the Google, not Exchange/Outlook method). Emails sync to it fine but when I delete them from the phone: they aren't getting deleted in Gmail itself. I've waited maybe 30 minutes... Is this normal and I have to use Exchange/Outlook or what?
Edit- Ahh never mind. Apparently the "Delete" function does not trigger a sync... I manually sync it and they go away.

Yah it won't sync and delete off server right away. I'm pretty sure its based off the account sync setting. If you have it receive mail every 30mins, maybe thats when it will sync the deleted items as well. I just tested it, and it took about 1 minute for it to delete off server (mine is set to receive mail as it comes in). That way it doesn't sync every time you delete one email, then again when you delete another, it waits a certain amount of time then sync's the changes.
With my Yahoo, which can only be set for every 15mins as the fastest, I think thats when it does it.

That's exactly how mine's set, too, but since I didn't have any emails come in after I deleted it- it never sync'd.
GMail on Android didn't act like this- it'd go ahead and process item moves, deletes, etc... right away.

Yah I remember that on my Android as well. It was nice, but not really necessary to be instantaneous. Maybe they will implement that in the future?
You said yours wouldn't even sync the deleted items at the chosen sync interval because there was no new mail? Mine deletes from the server, new mail or not.

No, I meant mine is set to push. No new mail = no sync trigger.
If I set it on an interval it would but then it's not push.

For me i always have to tap the sync icon before quitting the mail ...
.... and so far its going good.

edit....running some tests

Deleting email messages from your phone does not delete them from Gmail (it does not move them to the Trash folder/label), even after syncing. If you log in to your Gmail account online, you will still find all of the "deleted" messages in All Mail.
This is due in part to the way the WP7 client works, but also because of the way Gmail implements folders as labels. Basically, all the WP7 client does is tell Gmail to remove the Inbox label from the message. In Gmail, that is not the same as deleting it. The Trash label is special in Gmail, and applying that label causes all other labels (including the All Mail label) to be removed, and the message gets flagged for permanent removal after 30 days.
If you delete messages on your phone, you will need to periodically log into your Gmail account through a browser to purge the old mail from All Mail, or it will continue to sit there. It's actually pretty easy to tell which messages in All Mail have been deleted by phone, because there will be no Inbox label indicator on them.

Well it's working at me..
You have to config imap at your wp7. That is the only way to sync correctly

RoboDad said:
Deleting email messages from your phone does not delete them from Gmail (it does not move them to the Trash folder/label), even after syncing. If you log in to your Gmail account online, you will still find all of the "deleted" messages in All Mail.
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I'm not complaining about the Delete vs Archive thing. I actually like the way that works.
I'm complaining that when I Archive, Delete, Move, whatever... On Gmail on Android... The function gets synced. It doesn't want until a new sync, like on WP7.

OK, that makes sense. When I first set up my Google account on my phone, I used the as items arrive sync setting, and deletes were synced immediately. I'm not sure why it didn't work for you. But that was a while ago, so maybe something has changed.

TexUs said:
No, I meant mine is set to push. No new mail = no sync trigger.
If I set it on an interval it would but then it's not push.
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The only PUSH for GMail is using Google Sync, which is ActiveSync, which means you have to set it up like an Exchange Server. Using IMAP is not PUSH, and POP3 certainly isn't.

RoboDad said:
Deleting email messages from your phone does not delete them from Gmail (it does not move them to the Trash folder/label), even after syncing. If you log in to your Gmail account online, you will still find all of the "deleted" messages in All Mail.
This is due in part to the way the WP7 client works, but also because of the way Gmail implements folders as labels. Basically, all the WP7 client does is tell Gmail to remove the Inbox label from the message. In Gmail, that is not the same as deleting it. The Trash label is special in Gmail, and applying that label causes all other labels (including the All Mail label) to be removed, and the message gets flagged for permanent removal after 30 days.
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It has nothing to do with how WP7's client works. It works like any other IMAP client. Yahoo! tried the "WP7 Client" excuse and lost that battle. It's 100% due to Google's folder implementation. Most IMAP clients have to be coded specifically to work with Google's servers, because they use basically a proprietary label/folder structure due to their Label system (which is designed first and foremost for browser use, not client use).
GMail is a nightmare to work with in an IMAP client (many people agree, those who are used to it won't really care to agree or disagree).
If you delete messages on your phone, you will need to periodically log into your Gmail account through a browser to purge the old mail from All Mail, or it will continue to sit there. It's actually pretty easy to tell which messages in All Mail have been deleted by phone, because there will be no Inbox label indicator on them.
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That's cause All Mail is your real inbox, and Google does nothing but adds flags to mails. These flags correspond to labels and the only thing you see in the other folder are really copies of the other mail. When working with GMail through a web client it doesn't copy anything, it just sort of links everything, so if you delete a mail it simply removes the labels and moves the real item from All Mail to Trash.
Since standard IMAP clients do not support labels, they have to create a folder for each label and download a copy of that message in each of those folders. Furthermore, since they don't support the labels (again), when you delete an email from Work the IMAP client is dumb and has no clue that Work is only a Label and that same mail is also flagged for "Marketing" and "Travel", as well as "All Mail."
So, you end up with the Work copy going to your IMAP client Trash (not the Gmail Trash), and a copy still sitting in "All Mail", "Marketing", and "Travel."
When you perform a sync/reconcile the GMail servers may see the "Work" email is gone, but it doesn't mean delete this mail to the Gmail Servers. It means "Remove this Label from this email." And going by that statement, I can confirm that your information is wrong about knowing which mail was deleted. For people with Filters on their Gmail Account and nested Labels (Social Networks/Facebook etc.) it will only remove the Label that corresponds to the folder you deleted the email from in MOST IMAP clients (some code to work with Google's service in a specific manner). Most IMAP clients (even Microsoft Outlook, and IIRC Mozilla Thunderbird as well) had to push out major updates to their apps to cope with GMail's IMAP implementation (or rather, the Folder to IMAP coupling of GMail).
They have to map the IMAP Trash Folder to Gmail's Trash folder and make sure the emails are properly linked so that when one is deleted, everything goes to trash which stops the user's All Mail folder from growing to a ridiculous size (and is terrible for Junk Mail that gets through the Junk Filter and may be labeled). Should not have to jump into two clients just to delete an email
That is why you have to do twice the work.
Gmail is terrible for IMAP because it forces most IMAP clients (unless specifically coded to handle Google's service) to download a ton of redundant data and the folder structures are terrible.
It has nothing to do with WP7's client...
POP3 with GMail in Outlook, etc. with a fast (i.e. 5-10min) Poll Time is great (their servers are stable and fast). IMAP? Terrible...
Use AIM with IMAP and that's the way most services work. When you delete the mail, it actually deletes, and the folder structures are uniform and pretty much standard.
Google does this because they datamine emails (they don't personally read them, but they data mine them for targetted advertising, etc.). It's also why they had to make a specific GMail app for Android, even though Google Mail supports POP3, IMAP4, and ActiveSync (with HTML Mail support).
So, to end this long boring post... That's why I find it better to use POP3 or ActiveSync for GMail. IMAP with Gmail forces your phone to download a lot of redundant data which ups the battery life implications of GMail IMAP compared to i.e. AOL/AIM Mail IMAP (Yahoo! is terrible, and I haven't used it in ages so I cannot attest to how well theirs is implimented even without the data leak issue).

I know how Google handles it. I like how they do it. It fits in with their philosophy of, "Archive, don't Delete"... So for me, if using another client- clients don't have an "Archive" button, just a "Delete" button.
If I'm using Gmail in another client, I want my emails Archived, not Deleted (current behavior). I'd be pissed if Delete actually moved them to Trash.
So my gripe is not Google in that regard at all. I both like and understand why they do it.
N8ter said:
The only PUSH for GMail is using Google Sync, which is ActiveSync, which means you have to set it up like an Exchange Server. Using IMAP is not PUSH, and POP3 certainly isn't.
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The downside to that is you lose your calendar, right?
I think I could manage that. I don't need Calendar SYNC (I never refer to it on a desktop or anything)- I just need it backed up. So I can add my Calendar via my Live account.
I might do this method. It begs the question though, what method does the "Google Account" use in the background?? Something like IMAP?
Edit- well shoot... The Active Sync Google connection syncs the calendar, too. What the hell is the "Google Account" advantage, then?

I all,
I search to set up my inbox for delete really delete my mails, no archive.
My account was set up as a "GMAIL account", I have tried with activesync account too since I have read this thread but ... it's the same problem
No "Archive" menu, juste "delete", and no way to really delete ?
Is somebody have a solution?
Thanks.

See my post over on Microsoft Answers for a solution/workaround. Duplicated below as I am unable to post links due to being a new member!
The problem is with Gmail not MS, although MS could probably implement a 'fix' to workaround the problem that is Google's making, as some have suggested Apple may have done, but I have no experience of this as I do not use Apple products full stop.
Anyhow, there is a way to get this to work simply and reliably, although it does not work via Exchange ActiceSync, or at least I have not figured out a way of doing this yet.
If Gmail is set up via the WP7 inbuilt Exchange ActiceSync, uncheck email synchronisation under account settings, but leave Contact and Calendar checked if you use these. You will lose the Gmail Inbox.
Now, create a new account and enter the IMAP settings for Google and set your synchronisation interval as required. Your Gmail Inbox will reappear.
However, you're not done yet. You now, need to go into the Web interface for Gmail, go to Settings/Labels and untick Show in IMAP next to All Mail.
Now, goto Forwarding and POP/IMAP. Ensure IMAP is enabled, select Auto- Expunge off and then Move the message to the Bin, below it.
Now when you delete a message on WP7 they will appear under the Deleted Items label, but can easily be cleaned up to the Bin periodically via the web interface. Playing around with these settings will hopefully get you the behaviour you require. This particular way works well for me, as I it still gives me a recovery option if I accidentally delete something on my phone. The downside is that you essentially get two Recyle Bins in the web interface.
If someone works out how to do this via Exchange ActiveSync, or manages to refine this further, please let me know.
It's not perfect, but it does work. I hope this helps someone...

[Q] Gmail - Unable to Delete email? It's only Archiving (to All Mail)

I've done my due diligence (searching for HOURS on end), so I know this has been discussed many times but I still have not seen any sort of solution or progress on how to fix the issue.
Here is the issue: Gmail/Google accounts in WP7, when you press the Trash-can icon to delete your email(s), it does not actually move the email to the 'Trash' folder (or how Gmail understands it, the 'Trash' label). It simply removes the 'Inbox' label but still keeps the message under 'All Mail'.
I've tried everything - set up my email account as an ActiveSync account and tried deleting, going to my Gmail (or any other of my email accounts that resides on Google Apps) account settings via the web browser and try fiddling with the Advanced IMAP options, but nothing.
Does anyone have any solution for this? Unfortunately, this is pretty much a dealbreaker for me with WP7 - I just purchased the HTC Trophy. I want to really love the OS/device (and I do love the OS) but being able to properly delete my Google/Gmail emails is crucial.
I've heard some people, as a temporary stop-gap, to just use the "Move to Folder" and move the email message to [Gmail]\Trash, but I don't see that folder in WP7. Any ideas on this?
Any help or insight in this matter would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

There is no solution (as in setting you can change in WP7 or on google.com) that changes this behavior. The only real option is to occasionally log in to your email account on the website and purge old mail from all mail. That's what I do about once every couple of months.

Thanks for the response. That's a real bummer. Do you or anyone know if this is something Microsoft plans on fixing? Basically it just entails making the Delete/Trash Can -> Remove Inbox Label + Add Trash Label to the message.
Also, do you know how I could view the [Gmail]\Trash folder/label? When I try to browse All Folders, it doesn't show up. Any ideas?
Thanks.

Avazee said:
Does anyone have any solution for this? Unfortunately, this is pretty much a dealbreaker for me with WP7 - I just purchased the HTC Trophy. I want to really love the OS/device (and I do love the OS) but being able to properly delete my Google/Gmail emails is crucial.
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You should be able to change imap settings in gmail. There's a few articles I found, but they're a bit old, and I'm apparently too new of a member to link. I've gone ahead to write a few instructions.
1. Go to settings in your gmail
2. Go to the "Forwarding and POP/IMAP" tab
3. In IMAP access, under "When I mark a message in IMAP as deleted:" select "Auto-expunge off"
4. In IMAP access, under "When a message is marked as deleted and expunged from the last visible IMAP folder:" select "Move the message to the Trash" or "Immediately delete the message forever"
I'm still trying to figure out how exactly the behavior works on my own device. From my understanding, by doing this, you'll send deleted message to the trash rather than archive. It appears that you lose the "instant" server update (so you might have emails that you delete on your phone stay in your inbox as unread for a while).
**edit for further research - It appears that your message will only be deleted if there are no other labels for it. Apparently [gmail]all mail counts as a label. So what the heck did I tell you to do?

Thanks for the reply. I don't understand what your last part meant..the part about your edit for further research. Please clarify. Thanks.
Sent from my mwp6985 using Board Express

bver100 said:
It appears that your message will only be deleted if there are no other labels for it. Apparently [gmail]all mail counts as a label. So what the heck did I tell you to do?
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This, and it's the same for IOS, not a WP7 issue.
I read numerous guides looking for a solution but there isn't one. If an email exists in another view, i.e. "All Mail" then it won't be deleted.
After using IOS and WP7 this was one of the main reasons for moving to Android. It may seem a bit extreme but I hate having email I don't need. Everything gets read and deleted.

What you say is true in a technical sense, but it misses the underlying issue. Gmail has one label, Gmail/Trash, that is special. Any email that is sent there automatically has all other labels removed. However, it is up to an email client to apply the label. For example, the Thunderbird email client on Windows does just that. If I read an email in my Inbox, and then click the Delete button, Thunderbird sends and IMAP notification to Gmail to apply the Gmail/Trash label to the message, and it is instantly gone from both my Inbox and All Mail. And the Gmail/Trash label is automatically purged after 30 days.
The problem with WP7 and iOS is that they don't (and possibly can't) send the same notification. All they currently do is notify Gmail to remove the Inbox label. And, as has already been noted, the fact that the email is still in All Mail causes it to be retained on the server.

Thanks for the info, guys. I realize and understand that the culprit is the WP7 mail client, not Gmail.
As a temporary workaround (I am seriously hoping they fix this.. you guys should visit http://windowsphone.uservoice.com/f...eting-email-in-gmail-really-delete-?ref=title to vote for adding this feature), I created a new label called "WP7 Trash". From now on, when I want to "delete" mail, I simply move to to that folder/label in the WP7 mail client, and then anytime down the road I can log into my accounts and just delete all the mail in that folder/label.
Kind of kludgy, but it's the only thing I can think of...
Let me know your thoughts.

After futzing around a bit more on the internet, i've found that some people are able to get the desired "trash button = delete" action if you add your gmail account as an Exchange account instead of as a "Google Account". I haven't tried it yet, but since it isn't dealing with Gmail's odd IMAP implementation, perhaps you will get better results.

Setting up your Gmail account as an Exchange/ActiveSync account doesn't work - I've tested it several times and nothing. I do have my accounts set up as Exchange/ActiveSync because I've heard that it uses less battery than using the "Add Google Email Account" option in WP7.
The only temp-solution I've found is the create a WP7-Trash label and move messages to that folder (for later deletion once you log into the Gmail web interface).
If anyone CAN get the Delete = Trash working on ActiveSync/Exchange setups, by all means let us know!