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[begin rant]
I am so tired of specs right now because the more you know the more you sink in to the mud-hole. Give me something that I can "touch", "see" & "feel" as better.
Eg.
My current 2 of 3 phones:
1. iphone 3g has 412Mhz processor.
2. Pure has 528Mhz processor
3. iphone 3g has 2 Megapixel camera
4. Pure has 5 Megapixel camera
But does it run faster or take better pictures? NO
For picture quality comparison of the 3g vs pure, See here
Note: my 3rd phone is the iphone 3GS.
So F*k the specs.
[end of rant]
Hei, easy tiger
Why do you rant about Pure vs iPhone here? Take it somewhere else ...j/k.
You are right, at the end, it is not the hardware spec, but "user experience".
That is (user experience) what Microsoft currently is trying to bring with their new product, WP7S.
You know, it is a "new" product. It does not even exist yet (purchaseable).
Still a lot of questions unanswered (which you will have some more clues after MIX10).
So, take it easy
Btw, about "that actually works" ... that's really depend on the user, the person who use the device.
Some users want to have full access to the device, OS, hardware, hack this, hack that, fully-super-duper-multitasking, bunch of sensors.
Some users just want to use the phone as it is ... enough with web browser, play youtube, facebook, twitter and email.
Some users just want to use the phone ... you know, for calling someone else
Like my wife, she is using Touch Dual. Why? Because she hates touch phone! Yupe, she hates iPhone, and all "latest" Windows Mobile devices.
She likes to use the phone for ... calling me and her friends, playing Solitaire (that's all) and occasionally using the TomTom 6 for navigation.
My other friend bought HTC Touch Diamond 2 and she does not have any clue. She "asked" why I have to re-charge the battery every afternoon?
I looked into her phone and I saw bunch of apps running in the background: Contact, Fring, ActiveSync, SMS ...
I told her, you must close those! She again asked "Why? Cant they close them self automatically?"
I said "Sometimes, no" ... and I could not continue. I told her husband to put custom ROM ... bla bla (of course they cant do it!).
For my wife, the HTC Touch Dual "does works", big time.
For my friend, the HTC Touch Diamond 2 "does not work" (They are now thinking to switch to iPhone).
Although HTC Touch Dual is way less spec wise!
Since I had a Touch HD and done lots of comparison shots to the iPhone 3G, I am sure the Pure's camera is actually quite a bit better.
The Pure is certainly not faster, though, and definitely less fluid. The MHz count of the Pure's processor is misleading, as it is really quite slow. Plus, Windows Mobile doesn't have nice animations and fluid physics - it has ugly screen redrawing (though it's actually not slower than iPhone OS, but a lot less fluid).
Anyway,
specs do matter. The problem is, you never get to know all the specs. The MHz and Mpixel numbers simply aren't ebough to say whether a processor is fast or a camera chip is good.
There are lots of other factors involved. But they won't tell you the "performace per clock" numbers or the "light sensitivity" and size of the camera sensor.
So, it's not that specs don't matter, it's just that you don't get to know the numbers that actually do matter. What can you do? Well, I know it's hard, but you actually have to inform yourself as much as you can, so that reading spec sheets will give you the knowledge you need before buying a device.
And you have to try for yourself. And I know it's hard, often you don't get the possibility to try a handset without buying it, and reviews usually don't give enough information, especially if you care about "small features" that usually don't get talked about in reviews.
So, keep cool
Specs can be misleading, but only because regular people don't look behind the raw numbers and have no clue about what really counts. But that doesn't mean phone makers should take away the spec sheets... some users do know what really counts, and spec sheets help them a lot to make their desicion.
Actually, they're helpful more often than not, e.g. I know Snapdragon, Cortex and ARMv7 mean "faaaast". Regular people may not know that, but it won't hurt them to read "Snapdragon" on the spec sheet either. Because in the end, they'll always have to try the phones for themselves (or at least try to get enough info from reviews).
How do you think companies can give you something to "touch", "see" & "feel"? Free try&buy devices? Not going to happen. Spec sheets give at least some hints, since there's no better alternative. And if you do your homework, they will be quite helpful
Calm down... nothing to rant about here
Thanks for the warm note my friend.....
I am a spec guy myself, but I feel as if I was cheated/scammed this time, partly because I am not a mobile device person, and definitely was not aware of this crazy MSM and ARM differences. Now I know....ha ha
Now as far as the camera goes, I know quite a bit as I am in it for a few years now, enough to say that megapixels are just the tip of the iceberg. Higher megapixel within the same sensor family is better, but then there are chips that provide better pictures at the same or less megapixels. i.e. CMOS vs. CCD . On top of that, there is the lens and the processing engine to add on to it.
The camera software in the Pure is not very good. I will tell you that. It takes quite some time for it to find the right white balance under room lighted conditions. The iphone is pretty good/better at that.
The camera software in the Pure is not very good. I will tell you that.
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I know. It's quite bad, actually. That's what I hated about my Touch HD. But nevertheless, my HD took much better pictures than the iPhone 3G (in most cases, at least). I'm sure that's also the case with the Pure.
When it comes to cellphone cameras, however, spec sheets are mostly useless.
They never tell you about anything other than the Mpixel number - which of course means nothing (though I wouldn't want to have less than 5).
The camera is very important to me. Reviews are mostly useless, because they never make direct comparisons under the same conditions. I end up buying several phones, comparing the cameras, and then selling them again... crazy, but that's all I can do
The HD2's camera is actually the first smartphone camera I would be satisfied with - if I could make the flash not overexpose everything that's less than 3m away
seed_al said:
I know. It's quite bad, actually. That's what I hated about my Touch HD. But nevertheless, my HD took much better pictures than the iPhone 3G (in most cases, at least). I'm sure that's also the case with the Pure.
When it comes to cellphone cameras, however, spec sheets are mostly useless.
They never tell you about anything other than the Mpixel number - which of course means nothing (though I wouldn't want to have less than 5).
The camera is very important to me. Reviews are mostly useless, because they never make direct comparisons under the same conditions. I end up buying several phones, comparing the cameras, and then selling them again... crazy, but that's all I can do
The HD2's camera is actually the first smartphone camera I would be satisfied with - if I could make the flash not overexpose everything that's less than 3m away
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Flash overexpose - now if only they would provide TTL flash intensity control. Goodness....
2M vs 5M
My LG-VU actually took much better pictures than the iphone 3G and Pure. The only problem was that you would not realize that until you transferred it to your PC, courtesy of the crappy resistive plasticky screen.
I still have it. Maybe I will use it as a camera only
Cameras... bleh. All smartphone cameras are awful.
But I do have to agree here: Even though one phone may have a snapdragon processor, and the iPhone may have a 412mhz processor, the iPhone navigates so much faster.
Of course, I know the reason for this, but it certainly does make me hope that Microsoft sorts this out with WP7S.
(Though, never, EVER, would I buy anything that supports Apple...)
EDIT: Also, I've had lots of people say that my Touch Pro's screen was "less sensitive/accurate than iPod/iPhone's". Even though I've tried to explain it, the average user just doesn't get it.
Even though one phone may have a snapdragon processor, and the iPhone may have a 412mhz processor, the iPhone navigates so much faster.
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No way
It's not going to beat a Snapdragon phone.
The iPhone 3G isn't that fast, actually. It's barely faster than the QCOM MSM phones, but of course much more smooth/fluid (and that despite it has 100MHz less).
Smartphone cameras? Yes, they're not good. But I'm not going to buy a dumbphone because of the camera.
Jaxbot said:
Even though one phone may have a snapdragon processor, and the iPhone may have a 412mhz processor, the iPhone navigates so much faster.
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You won't say that once you gets your hands on a HD2 (with or without custom rom I might add). It's probably the 1st (and last) HTC WinMo 6.5 phone with enough grunt to power thru practically anything. The only reason why an iPhone might feel faster is because it presents you with a flashy animation before actually loading up the app. WM phones don't do this.
Jaxbot said:
EDIT: Also, I've had lots of people say that my Touch Pro's screen was "less sensitive/accurate than iPod/iPhone's"
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Used to have a Touch HD and preferred resistive touchscreens. Several months with a HD2 changed my mind I do think resistive touchscreens are actually more accurate though, I can touch-type way faster on my HD than I can on the HD2. But that could just be a Wm 6.5 limitation.
Ok. here's the deal. CCD sensors are more noisy and most HTC camera probably use CCD sensor given the noise in low light pictures.
after researching a bit, I found out that the iphone uses CMOS sensors which actually produce a smoother, less noisy picture. No wonder.....my eyes can see the difference.
fyi...Canon uses CMOS sensors across it's line of decent to high end digital cameras, a big reason why it leads the market.
update: i also just found out that the HD2 uses a CMOS sensor too. no wonder u hd2 owners love the picture quality of the hd2.
seed_al said:
No way
It's not going to beat a Snapdragon phone.
The iPhone 3G isn't that fast, actually. It's barely faster than the QCOM MSM phones, but of course much more smooth/fluid (and that despite it has 100MHz less).
Smartphone cameras? Yes, they're not good. But I'm not going to buy a dumbphone because of the camera.
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I'm not referring to the speed, I'm referring to the navigatability (and how "fluid" it is).
Of course, I always laugh when I see the animations on someone's iPhone, because it really does make it seem like the app loads faster than it does (Hint to Microsoft?).
chiks19018 said:
Ok. here's the deal. CCD sensors are more noisy and most HTC camera probably use CCD sensor given the noise in low light pictures.
after researching a bit, I found out that the iphone uses CMOS sensors which actually produce a smoother, less noisy picture. No wonder.....my eyes can see the difference.
fyi...Canon uses CMOS sensors across it's line of decent to high end digital cameras, a big reason why it leads the market.
update: i also just found out that the HD2 uses a CMOS sensor too. no wonder u hd2 owners love the picture quality of the hd2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then check again.
CCD was always superior to CMOS and probably will be for a long time(that is why they use it in science).
Almost all mobile phones(there are only few that use CCD - mostly in japan) today use CMOS sensors because they're cheaper.
Basically mobile phones are mostly using 1/3.2" sensors if not smaller and at that size CCD would offer better picture quality and low light sensitivity but would be bigger so the phone would be bigger that is why ODM's are using CMOS sensors.
More expensive CMOS sensors are used in DSLR's but show me just one P&S camera that uses CMOS.
So both HTC(all HTC's) and iphone use CMOS sensors but probably from different manufacturers hence the difference in quality and noise level.
So once and for all. For mobile use CCD would be better but it is bigger and not as cheap as CMOS sensor. In high end DSLR market it is not so clear that is why both CCD and CMOS sensors are used.
I am back to fk the specs....
It appears that at this time, there is no clear defining line between CCD and CMOS. both are very competitive, both offering it's own advantages, strengths and weaknesses.
CMOS is the future
Canon making CMOS for compact cameras
Turns out that Canon surprised everyone with its amazing CMOS
technology. Imagine that surprise that its CMOS sensor has a much
better noise performance than any known CCDs. Even Phil Askey said
the image was "silky smooth" - some wondered, "it looks too smooth,
some details must have been removed" but a closer examination found
no evidence.
Link
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chiks19018 said:
I am back to fk the specs....
Click to expand...
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haha
chiks19018 said:
I am back to fk the specs....
It appears that at this time, there is no clear defining line between CCD and CMOS. both are very competitive, both offering it's own advantages, strengths and weaknesses.
CMOS is the future
Canon making CMOS for compact cameras
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Click to collapse
I never said CMOS was worse for DSLR. On the contrary I admitted that today both CMOS and CCD fair well in DSLR's. Considering the size of the sensor low light sensitivity seems to be equal between the two.
What I meant is that for small sizes CCD is best(almost all point&shoot cameras) and mobile phones where unfortunately manufacturers decide to use cheaper CMOS sensors - remember that there are better CMOS used in high end cameras and cheap ones used in mobile phones and PC cameras. Unfortunately we get cheap sensors in our mobile phones.
I think he reason why they are making the spec's high is because they want everything to touch and feel better. So why f*** the specs? I'm pretty sure that's going to be important. You put a 538mhz proc in a WP7 it's probably not going to want to move.
Wishmaster89 said:
I never said CMOS was worse for DSLR. On the contrary I admitted that today both CMOS and CCD fair well in DSLR's. Considering the size of the sensor low light sensitivity seems to be equal between the two.
What I meant is that for small sizes CCD is best(almost all point&shoot cameras) and mobile phones where unfortunately manufacturers decide to use cheaper CMOS sensors - remember that there are better CMOS used in high end cameras and cheap ones used in mobile phones and PC cameras. Unfortunately we get cheap sensors in our mobile phones.
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chill man, I am not arguing with you, nor I am putting you down. In fact I liked your post. made me do some more research!
The specs that the phone companies provide are like a girl saying she wears DD bra size.
When you take it off you realize that it was padded on a B size
OMG I just solved the flash exposure issue with a new driver from HTC!!
Wow that feels good! What a great camera phone I have now!!
Sorry, guys, for being OT, but I'm so happy^^
*LOL* ..... Thanks for that! I got a good laugh
chiks19018 said:
The specs that the phone companies provide are like a girl saying she wears DD bra size.
When you take it off you realize that it was padded on a B size
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Anyone have some input on the best WP7 phone to get if I want to use it to replace my Kodak digital camera? The camera on the HD7 kind of sucks.
Don't go with the LG Quantum either. In bright daylight it's sort of ok, but as soon as you need flash, it's like taking a picture on a RAZR from 2007. Awful.
-edit-
I think the HTC Mozart is the only wp with an 8mp camera. Probably the best?
I would say pretty much all of them are the same; the only phone that has more mp is the HTC Mozart (8mp). Idk if that might make a difference though as mp doesn't necessarily define the whole aspect of good pictures. I hear the focus is nice for taking pictures (in terms of clarity and color balance) as well. It also has the SAMOLED screen, which means the pictures show up more vibrant on your phone
I'm interested in hearing what other people say
Don't know about the Focus, but the Samsung Omnia 7 is definitely the best one available in Europe. I would rank them Samsung, LG, HTC - with the Mozart's 8MP not really being any better than the other HTC phones.
I've been extremely satisfied with the photo quality on my Focus.
its worth pointing out that higher MP does not equal better quality.
Most 5MP cameras will be fine in teh correct lighting conditions, low light is the biggest issue, the reason for this is down to optics and CCD size.
If you had a 12MP camera with a lense the size of the HD2/7 the pictures will be crap in low light as well, to be perfectly honest unless you get a phone with a big arse lense and 5+MP you wont get good "poor" light photos
I find the HD2/7 camera is grand in good lighting, had some cracking shots, mess with the lighting a bit and i pull out my slim line 12MP camera with its 32mm lense
yeah, don't replace your camera.
Just buy a second hand canon Ixus series (60 - 95) for less than £70 on ebay and you won't ever be disappointed! They are ultracompact but the picture quality has always been so good!
I don't really understand people who try to replace their camera with their mobile phone.. the mobile phone will take mediocre shots but i guess you have it with you all the time.
BUt even a cheapo crappy dedicated camera with LOWER MP will shoot better pictures than a 5MP-10MP phone.
Get one of the ultracompacts whcih are actually smaller than a lot of the new smartphones anyway!
I don't think I've used my Omnia 7 camera except for when taking lecture notes on Onenote!
Otherwise I stick to using my Canon 550D and Ixus 95
hboos said:
I don't really understand people who try to replace their camera with their mobile phone.. the mobile phone will take mediocre shots but at least you have it with you all the time.
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You just answered yourself - it's because you've always got your phone with you. The less gadgets you have to carry the better.
I tend to use my Omnia7 for photos several times a day. Quick snaps of just about anything. The fact they're snaps doesn't mean I'll be happy with ****ty quality though, you never know, you might get lucky enough to catch that one moment and decide you want it printed.
Now, if I'm out specifically for taking photos I'll obviously use my Nikon DSLR, but for everyday use I want a phone that gives at least half decent results.
The fact is that all WP7 cameras could be better. Especially the HTC ones.
emigrating said:
You just answered yourself - it's because you've always got your phone with you. The less gadgets you have to carry the better.
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Yeah agreed it is slightly more convenient..
But I personally don't like swapping quality for slight convenience
I still use my Cowon for music (better sound quality than phone) and carry my ultra compact when out with friends and my DSLR when I want to take decent photos!
I also find that the lens of the phone camera is always grubby resulting in slightly soft photos!
BUt coming back to the topic..I think the OMnia 7 takes fairly decent photos compared to other phones although I don't know how it compares to other WP7
Engadget reckons the Focus has an "impressive camera" and the Omnia 7 has a "good camera" while the others either aren't mentioned in the scorecard or specifically mention "subpar camera"
They've actually posted all the photos so you should have a look yourself.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/29/htc-trophy-review/
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/22/samsung-focus-review/
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/22/lg-optimus-7-review/
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/21/htc-7-mozart-review/
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/20/htc-hd7-review/
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/20/samsung-omnia-7-review/
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/20/htc-surround-review/
I'm having real problems with the focus camera. I can't seem to get a steady shot. Maybe it's because of the hardware button, and I'm slightly moving the camera when I take it. I hope that's it, because it usually takes me 5 or 6 shots to get a decent one...
jmerrey said:
I'm having real problems with the focus camera. I can't seem to get a steady shot. Maybe it's because of the hardware button, and I'm slightly moving the camera when I take it. I hope that's it, because it usually takes me 5 or 6 shots to get a decent one...
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Have you tried holding the camera button down half-way to let it focus before taking the pic? Also, there is an anti-shake setting on Focuses (and other Samsungs, I presume), but unfortunately the setting doesn't save.
yes i use the auto-focus feature, i've tried the anti-shake setting, i've tried lowering the resolution, pretty much everything...i can get a decent shot about 1 out of 5
I've been reading about how lower MP can actually mean better low light performance and this camera may just beat the 8MP competition. Zero-shutter lag being really awesome too.
But then looking at the photos taken with it by an Android developer...
https://plus.google.com/photos/107606703558161507946/albums/5669407328146570481
Where is this awesome quality? Those pictures look no better than what my Galaxy S takes.
Not only is this outclassed by the 8MP camera in the S2 and iPhone 4S, it may be outclassed by the old 5MP Galaxy/Nexus S.
Those photos seem to have more noise and odd colour compared to photos from my Galaxy S.
Low light photos look like they might be better, but overall these don't look good.
I don't know how people manage to compare image quality between different phone cameras - they all look equally terrible to me.
Not sure how you can make a quality call based on 1 phone and 1 person operating.
How can you tell without having side by side shots of the same scenes at the same time with 2 or 3 different devices?
I find it extremely hard to believe that the Galaxy Nexus would have the same camera performance as the Nexus S.
martonikaj said:
How can you tell without having side by side shots of the same scenes at the same time with 2 or 3 different devices?
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Do you need to put a Mini and a bus side by side to tell which is bigger?
Maddmatt said:
Do you need to put a Mini and a bus side by side to tell which is bigger?
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How is that comparison even remotely similar? Size difference can be seen in anything but pitch black.
Would you be able to determine if the Mini and the bus were the exact same color (exact nuance) in completely different light? No, probably not and even then you are basically cheating because your brain will adjust the colors you see based on what it "knows" other things should look like.
Maddmatt said:
Do you need to put a Mini and a bus side by side to tell which is bigger?
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That only works because the size of a Mini and a bus are known values (relatively). The quality of this camera is not a known value, and because of that you can't make an accurate comparison.
By this analogy, you're saying that you can look at a photo of one car, and immediately tell me if its the same as another car you've never seen...
blunden said:
How is that comparison even remotely similar? Size difference can be seen in anything but pitch black.
Would you be able to determine if the Mini and the bus were the exact same color (exact nuance) in completely different light? No, probably not and even then you are basically cheating because your brain will adjust the colors you see based on what it "knows" other things should look like.
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This
People love to jump to conclusions that its a bad camera because its 5MP, and then from that initial point, they simply assume everything it does is terrible. I wonder how the tables would be turned if it were a low quality 12MP camera, and every picture it took was sh*t but everyone just said it was amazing. People see what they want to see.
Just wait until the galaxy nexus comes out, and then you'll see the true power of the 5mp camera they put in it. It will be a great shooter.
Sent from my Sensation using XDA App
Seriously? Its a phone, not a dedicated camera. If you don't like it don't get the phone.
Punched in..
It really does not look very good. I hope that it is not final version of nexus.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dPe3lsoVQA
Chirality said:
I don't know how people manage to compare image quality between different phone cameras - they all look equally terrible to me.
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I agree. Phone cameras arent like absolute trash terrible but they're all so equally bad thats its incredibly hard to tell the difference.
Between the click of the light and the start of a dream.
hrcro said:
It really does not look very good. I hope that it is not final version of nexus.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dPe3lsoVQA
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And you're judging that video what about this video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhlL-ys5iOA
So you see we have two totally different videos. Which one should we believe now?
I recommend wait until it's out and test it if possible or trust your preferd reviewer when he did his job with the Nexus.
The only photos I've seen are of a shipping dock. Hard to make that look good.
I am not judging. I am shareing what I found. Video that I posted was shot in "realistic" environment, another one is heavily modified. Anyway, there is no need to be nervous or judgemental.
I agree that we should wait and see how retail model performes.
Lets judging when phone is out
hrcro said:
I am not judging. I am shareing what I found. Video that I posted was shot in "realistic" environment, another one is heavily modified. Anyway, there is no need to be nervous or judgemental.
I agree that we should wait and see how retail model performes.
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That's what the filmer says to the video.
The only processing done on the original footage was to speed it up in the first clip.
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The video clips were shot without the help of a tripod and shake a little bit. The time-lapse clips were shot using a Stage Zero Dolly from Dynamic Perception
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So it was as well made under "realistic" circumstances. Expect from the first part. But he is a Android dev so who knows if it's true or not.
I didn't really pay much attention to the camera on the Galaxy Nexus as it seems good enough. The Engadget comparisons sometimes show it on par with the Nexus S, sometimes a little worse. What I'm more interested in is the 1080p video, which looks a whole lot better than anything else on the market (I've seen a dozen videos from different places already) and even better than the Galaxy S II. The audio capture, another sadly ignored pivotal part of video recording, is quite stellar. It really irks me when all the reviewers tout the earsplitting garble of sound on HTC phones as first-class because they look at the 44khz stereo spec and somehow ignore the actual sound, which is really terrible. I would love to get a unibody HTC phone, but this has been their achilles heel for me, and their video capture as a whole.
You can't deny that the camera on a phone is important, is a very very big selling point, and many people do make their buying decisions on the phone's ability to replace a dedicated point-and-shoot camera, and many phones are at that level right now. If you are too enamored with DSLR quality photos, you might not notice that camera quality in phones has jumped up leaps and bounds, regardless of MP. My five megapixel Samsung slider I bought 4 years ago is worse than your typical 5 megapixel budget smartphone camera. It's also 50% fatter and super slow. The software and processing, backlight sensors, wide angles, apertures, and other fancy stuff have improved drastically over the years. 1080p video is leaps and bounds above the QCIF stuff only a few years back.
Um, am I alone in thinking those pictures look just dandy? It's a phone. I'm not taking artistic photos, as long as they're clear and sharp (which those are) then there's no issue.
SomeGuyDude said:
Um, am I alone in thinking those pictures look just dandy? It's a phone. I'm not taking artistic photos, as long as they're clear and sharp (which those are) then there's no issue.
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+1 on that. And Most of the pictures where shaky und unsharp but that's due to the user and not to the camera. The pictures which were sharp however are okay and look totally fine for a phone.
have we all really forgotten about the fact that if you upload a picture to most websites, the picture becomes compressed?
being a car enthusiast like others here apparently, this is like comparing the same car on the same track with the same driver.. except one lap is in the rain and one lap is in the dry. of course results will be different!
For everyone who is complaining about the quality of the camera, I don't see what you're basing your judgement on. First, admit right now that all cell phone cameras take crap pictures! It's simple physics. Your point and shoot camera is only marginally better. More to the point, the limited samples I have seen would appear on par with other current devices. But without a comprehensive side by side comparison of the Galaxy Nexus to the 4s (or others) either qualitatively or quantitatively in a controlled environment, you just can't tell much. Shooting video of the sun and then the ground demonstrates very little especially when the comparison video is un-synced and crammed into a small PIP box.
Seems some are having a knee jerk reaction to not getting all 8 megapixels. Unless you are printing 8x10s, it doesn't really matter. If you are, get a DSLR! A good quality lower resolution camera can easily spank a cheaper higher resolution camera. The glass plays a huge role. As do chromatic aberration, exposure, latitude, color balance, sensitivity, focus, speed, image stabilization, noise reduction, white balance and so on. And don't even get me started on compression.
I have noticed Samsung came out with a camera phone in a more literal sense. But, I'm curious as to why the custom lenses are not a more popular item? Being able to change out the lens on my phone as I need to would add a huge level of customization and not too mention make the companies more money. Especially for well made premium lenses.
We've all seen the clips and attachments on Amazon or other websites. But, none of them are really thought out well. The clip moves around easily. The cases are ugly and useless for anyone who wants a protective case.
A lot of the lenses have defects even if they are small. Sure these items are cheap. But, that is my point. I spent some time looking and always got sent back to these ones. There's no higher end models nothing. I'd assume that would be because this idea is perceived as gimmicky. But, it's really not. Give me the ability to take a small plastic ring off my phone around the camera and attach my own custom lenses. You could charge oodles for higher tier lenses too.
Would reduce all the stuff I have to carry around with me everywhere for my camera.
Any thoughts as to why they don't support or carry their own custom lenses? The camera being an important feature for many of us on our phones. An improvement/addition like this I cannot see anything but perks of.
you should check sony qx10 and qx100
Either you have to carry your phone in a case with the lens attached, or take it out of your pocket and put on a lens each time you want to use it. Much easier to use a zoom-enabled digital camera, and the quality of photos is between better and much better. I always wondered why are they even produced. Yeah, I use my phone camera once in a while, but if I care enough to take a photo, I have a Canon rebel.
***WARNING*** EXTREMELY LONG REVIEW ***WARNING***
TLDR:
If you’re serious about your photos, but don’t want to buy a dedicated camera, the lenses from Sirui offer so much versatility and creativity to the Pixel 3 - a phone that is already one of the best point and shoots in the world. After spending a week taking photos with them on vacation, I believe they are absolutely worth every penny!
Introduction:
I love photography - full stop. But I can’t stand the thought of spending $2,000 on a dedicated camera and another $2,000 on lenses and accessories. Plus, carrying all of that around doesn’t sound fun either. This is why I started using my phone’s camera as my primary shooter. The results of smartphone cameras have improved dramatically in the past 2-3 years to the point where I am proud to share my photos online with regularity. Granted, there is still only so much a fixed focal length lens on a smartphone can ever do – even if that smartphone is a Pixel. Enter, the moment lenses… (but wait, I thought this review was about Sirui lenses?!) Hang on. Sometimes we have to go back before we can go forward; we’ll get there…
Background:
Ever since the original Google Pixel was released, the camera was praised and lauded as the premier smartphone camera in the industry. At the time, I was not in the market for a new phone, but my mom was, so I suggested the Pixel to her. She loved it for more than just the camera, but every photo she sent to me just blew me away. It felt unfair that her phone took so much better pictures than mine. So, I decided to do what many of us tech enthusiasts do, and went online looking for deals on the Google Pixel. In case you don’t remember, the original Pixel did NOT have many (if any) promotions during its first 6 months on the market, making it very difficult for me to pull the trigger on a purchase – especially since I’m not a Verizon customer, nor will I ever be (that’s a topic for another review). Because of this struggle to find a deal, enough time passed to where I started hearing rumors about the Pixel 2. It was time to be patient and play the waiting game.
Months later, the Pixel 2 was announced and Google shocked the world with the highest DXO Mark score of any phone EVER – 98! (Yes, I know DXO scores are not the only way to judge camera performance, but this improvement was notable at the time). This score was up from the 89 that the original Pixel scored and knowing how impressed I was with the original, I immediately clicked ADD TO CART. The photos I was able to produce with the Pixel 2 were nothing less than INCREDIBLE. At family gatherings, family members would throw their iPhones aside and beg me to take pictures for them because my phone took such great photos. I was more and more impressed with each shot that I took with this phone. I would even try to take photos of increasingly challenging scenes just to see how far I could push the camera; intentionally breaking the rules of photography by shooting into direct sunlight, or seeking out areas of poor lighting, only to be in awe of the results every time. But these high flying feelings didn’t last forever.
Eventually, I started to get a little bored; bored by how easy it was to take a great photo, bored by how little editing was required to make each photo share-worthy, and simply bored by taking the same types of photos, just in different locations - portrait, landscape, flower, food, repeat. After a year of the greatest smartphone camera experience ever, I became eager to upgrade to the Pixel 3 to recapture that initial magic which my Pixel 2 seemed to have lost. But I was instantly disappointed; not by the Pixel 3’s camera performance, because it’s still class leading, but disappointed by the lack of “wow” factor that I felt with the Pixel 2. It didn’t have the same obvious improvement in photo quality thaw we saw from the original Pixel to the Pixel 2. I was temporarily wowed by the new Night Sight feature - which is pure magic if you ask me, but its use cases are limited and the older Pixels have that feature too. I finally turned to the internet to look for inspiration and found increasingly frequent articles and videos touting the advantages of Moment lenses.
These Moment lens advertisements *ahem* articles and video reviews showed me a new world of photographic possibilities that I simply could not replicate with with my Pixel 2 or 3 alone. They could take portrait photos with natural bokeh without any edge detection failures, and they could take breathtaking wide angle shots to give the scene more drama than the standard focal length lens. And finally, they had a macro lens which I thought would be a game changer. You can always zoom in/out with your feet, but the details that can be seen with a macro lens cannot be imitated. I had to have them! After browsing the Moment website for a moment (no pun intended), I was quickly turned off by the astronomical pricing for these lenses. I simply could not justify paying $100 per lens, plus another $30 for the case required to attach the lenses. After tax, it would have easily surpassed $350 for the set. The dream was dead.
Fast forward a couple months and I stumbled upon an article comparing the Moment lenses with a new lens kit from Rhinosheild. (Seriously - Rhinosheild?! Hurry up and get to the Sirui lenses already) Hang on, almost there... I was excited because these new lenses appeared to be much cheaper than Moment’s, but my excitement was quickly tempered by the side-by-side photo comparisons. IN the review, the Rhinosheild photos looked down right terrible. Somehow, their lenses made the camera’s photos look worse. I kept searching for alternatives and finally stumbled upon Sirui lenses. At the time, there were a handful of decent reviews for them and they were only a fraction of the cost of the Moment lenses. And to top it all off, they fit perfectly onto Moment brand cases. You know the drill by now… ADD TO CART!
The Review:
It took a while, but we’re finally at the review you were looking for. I purchased the Sirui 3-lens kit from Amazon for the grand total of $160 (before taxes) and I purchased the Moment case (wood grain model) for $30. Just in case you skipped the background, let me reiterate that the equivalent set from Moment (without a carrying case) would cost me over $330! The Sirui lens kit comes with 3 lenses (wide angle, portrait & macro), a hard shell carrying case, and a universal lens clip for those who don’t have a compatible phone case. Now of course, I braced myself for these lenses to be of marginal quality to help save on price. I held my breath as I opened the package and inspected the contents.
Build Quality - 5/5 Stars
To my pleasant surprise, they looked and felt very nice. The weight of the lenses was more substantial than I expected, and reassured me they were truly made of metal and glass. Although I’m not much of a fan of the bright red and blue colors for the macro and portrait lenses respectively, so far, neither appears as though the color would fade or chip easily. Scratches however are a real concern so I do not dare set these lenses down on any surface which is harder than a microfiber cloth. Speaking of which, the package includes a small microfiber cloth for cleaning the lenses as needed. It tucks away nicely into the sturdy and fairly rugged case which holds all 3 lenses. The case even has a metal clip/hook that can be secured to just about anything when traveling.
Wide Angle Lens - 4/5 Stars
The wide angle lens has a focal length of 18mm and doesn’t have that unnatural fisheye look of the original V-series LG phones. I’ve found it great to use for the following 3 scenarios:
When taking a picture of a landscape (obviously) or anything that’s too big or tall to fit within the view of the standard focal length. Turn the camera vertically to capture tall buildings or statues.
When taking pictures in a cramped space - real estate agents would love this to make any room look larger and more spacious; especially when you can’t step back any further for a better perspective.
When using the Pixel’s portrait mode - it allows for background blur without cropping in as far. This one isn’t my original idea. I found it on one of the reviews I read.
This lens has proven to be quite versatile; more so than I expected when I purchased it. The lens doesn’t overly distort the scene and the image looks clear and detailed almost all the way to the corners. I only gave it 4 stars though because I wish the focal length was just a hair wider. It may be personal preference, but maybe 16mm would be ideal for my use cases. I found that I could easily replicate the wide angle viewpoint in a few cases by taking just a few steps backward, making the lens less useful in those scenarios.
Portrait Lens - 5/5 Stars
I did not expect to be as impressed with this lens as I was. I was already using my Pixel 3 in portrait mode for background blur to great success, so having a dedicated portrait lens felt redundant. I was WRONG! The portrait lens creates such a smooth and natural background blur that is every bit as satisfying as a dedicated camera. The artificial bokeh (or fokeh) that smartphones are using just doesn’t compare. This lens is the largest and heaviest of the three, so it takes a bit more effort to balance the phone when taking photos. The 60mm focal length does place you much closer to your subject so taking a few steps back is often required, causing your amateur subject to wonder if you’re doing something wrong. I originally planned to give this lens only 4 stars because it does have one small “flaw” that I can find: it’s not exactly razor sharp, or at least, not as sharp as I expected it to be. Granted, it’s sharp enough, and probably just as sharp as the Pixel 3’s lens. But for no reason at all, I just expected the results to be sharper. The reason why I kept the 5 star rating, however, is because of the added benefit of the 60mm focal length. It offers a true optical zoom to the Pixel 3, which already has a fairly impressive digital zoom, and the combination of both offers significant reach that neither could provide alone. I’ve found that I can zoom in up to 8x without critical loss of detail. It’s a very capable lens. I can remove it for normal/wide angle shots, and put it back on for portrait or telephoto shots. If I could only carry one single lens, this would be the one.
Macro Lens - 4/5 Stars
Macro photography is an area where smartphones generally struggle. Software simply cannot overcome the minimum focus distance of the hardware, resulting in blurry photos when positioned too close to the subject. Some of the most dramatic photos can be achieved through macro photography, and this lens is the tool I needed to complete my smartphone photography journey. The Macro lens offers a 10x magnification (not zoom) of the subject so you can see every detail in a flower petal, drop of water, or grain of sand. It highlights details that are barely visible to my naked eye and really brings everyday objects to life. The lens even comes with a light diffusing, removable hood to prevent harsh shadows as you hold the phone so closely to your subject. Be careful though, as you have to hold the lense within 1-2 cm of the subject and risk scratching the lens by contact. I prefer to use the lens hood to help protect the lens. The moment I feel the hood touch my subject, I know not to get any closer. My only complaint is the SUPER shallow depth of field doesn’t allow me to take full advantage of the sensor area. I’m sure it is a standard characteristic of macro lenses, but I find that only the very center of my photo is in focus while the rest of the frame is quite blurry. This forces me to crop out half of my photo before sharing so that only the in-focus area is presented. With phone sensors being so small, cropping really sacrifices the final resolution of the photo.
Conclusion:
I took the Sirui Lens kit with me on a trip to Cancun recently and was able to get some fantastic shots that I absolutely would have not been able to achieve with the Pixel 3 alone. Even though my wife is pregnant, she was a willing model for me on our vacation. And if you know anything about most women, they can be very critical of how they look in photos. She came away from the experience quite impressed with the results and has even given me permission to share them with complete strangers on the internet. There is a link to an album of sample images at the end of this review.
Bottom line - if you are looking to take your smartphone photography to the next level, and aren’t willing to shell out the cash for a Moment lens system, give the Sirui lenses a shot (does that count as a pun?). As long as you don’t expect these lenses to turn your phone into a DSLR, then I doubt you’ll be disappointed. And as you can probably tell by my willingness to write this lengthy review, I certainly am not.
Bonus:
Moment Photo Case - 4/5 Stars
I am fairly impressed with the Moment Photo Case. It is offered for the Pixel 3 in three colors and I chose the black with wood grain backplate. It looked the classiest of the three to me and it certainly feels premium in the hand. It’s bulkier than the ultra thin X-level cases I typically use on my phone, but nowhere near as thick as an Otterbox Commuter or anything like that. The threaded connection for the lenses is super easy to use, requiring only a quarter turn to secure and release the lens. The lenses are also clearly marked in a way that helps you quickly align the threads. I docked it’s rating just a little for the price. In a world of $10 cases, $30 seems a bit steep, but is ultimately required to complete the experience. I also wish Moment made a battery case for the Pixel 3, as this would turn the phone and Sirui lens kit into the ultimate photography tool. Anyone who takes a bunch of photos knows the toll it takes on the battery. And due to the somewhat cumbersome nature of swapping lenses, you typically only carry them with you when you plan to take a lot of pictures. Hopefully, a Moment battery case will be developed some day. Do you think they’ll ever read this review?
Link to Sample Photos:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/HakfHBeif8FekCPv7
Hey, i'm interested in these lenses but i can't seem to find them online (also i can't find the case you're talking about) could you dm me a link?
Thanks for your review. I have the portrait and have a problem, the pictures look bland and not sharp. I had that lens with my old Pixel 2 and it worked fine.
I just got 2 lenses. One from Apexel with 120 degrees capture but there is some distortion and problems with focus on the corners.
Just got the 18mm Sirui and this is a whole other lens. Sharp images with huge quality compare with the Apexel. Though it is only 95 degrees. But no distortion or problems with sharpness.
I am loving it. I know Sirui now on Aliexpress has a new version which from reviews they are saying are even better than Moment now. I just didn't want to wait 2 to 4 weeks so I bought the only one I found here in Brazil available.
---------- Post added at 11:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:37 AM ----------
Since I had the same doubts I will attach one example for each lenses.
You can look the difference.
For the Sirui will see a clean and good image.
For Apexel, check the right and left side of the picture. Center is clear and sharp but corners are bad.
YorbenB said:
Hey, i'm interested in these lenses but i can't seem to find them online (also i can't find the case you're talking about) could you dm me a link?
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From what I understand, this lens kit is not sold in all regions across the world. I am specifically talking about one of the many kits available on the US Amazon website.
Is this one done with portrait lens: https://photos.app.goo.gl/9xcJ7TdFfdVMDfL7A and the other without just with the Pixel's default focal length?
The Pixel is doing quite well in wide angle but I'm looking for a descent lens towards zoom (or maybe portrait).
TGHH said:
Is this one done with portrait lens: https://photos.app.goo.gl/9xcJ7TdFfdVMDfL7A and the other without just with the Pixel's default focal length?
The Pixel is doing quite well in wide angle but I'm looking for a descent lens towards zoom (or maybe portrait).
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None of the linked photos where taken with the Pixel lens alone. All included the Sirui lens attachments. The wider shot was taken with the wide angle lens.
Thank you for the review. I miss my ultra wide lens from my LG. And miss from the pixel 4. I hesitate between stay with my pixel 3 and go to the Moment Case and sirui lens oder buying a f*cking iPhone 11 Pro...
I ask myself if the system really practicable is. The shot the moment fast.
cle_m_ent said:
Thank you for the review. I miss my ultra wide lens from my LG. And miss from the pixel 4. I hesitate between stay with my pixel 3 and go to the Moment Case and sirui lens oder buying a f*cking iPhone 11 Pro...
I ask myself if the system really practicable is. The shot the moment fast.
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It's a fair question to ask. For casual snap shots, the separate lenses make no sense.