Develop Bugs

Some thing to clear about BlueAngel

I have planned to buy O2 XDA IIs from my frnd (2nd hand for sure)
Does it comes under the name, blueangel???
also please tell me pros and cons about this dmobile device
I already own O2 xda exec, typhoon and voyager
what about this one???
cud U, experienced users please guide me....am i gonna upgrade its rom to WM6 or not??

It's a great device, you won't make a mistake It has Intel PXA263 400mhz processor (This is the only thing i don't like in blueangel. It is not so fast. If you plan to play 3d games it is not very good for this. But you can easily overclock it with pocket master to 530mhz. With this frequency it handles everything without Snow Rally - there's a little lag and you can't play Playstation 1 games even if you overclock it to 590. I got 21-23fps in Tony Hawk Pro Skater with @530mhz and Frameskip - 2), 128 ram (This is great! With so much ram you don't need real close button.But there are no applications that wants more than 32 ram, so this is not a big advantage), Big screen and the best design for games(The screen is perfect. It wouldn't be bad if there was VGA screen but QVGA is not so bad either. In web browsing the qvga resolution is a big dissadvantage. You have to scrool a lot. But now there are browsers now that supports Zoom function.With it the browsing is good even on qvga device. When Opera 9.5 comes out it will rock And the design is great for games. It's like joystick when you handle it in landscape position and there are many buttons), 64mb Flash Storage(It's not much but you don't need more. There are SD Cards for that), SD/MMC expansion slot( The bad thing here is that it doesn't support SDHC, there are no drivers for that and there won't be in future ), CIF camera (It is really badd. The image quality is similar. If you try to record video it lags. I don't know why :/ It does it wven in the lowest quality), WiFi( No problems here), Bluetooth (No problems here either), IrDA( It can't be used as a remote controller because the irda range is around 3 meters)
And finally the PocketPC comes with WM2003. You can install WM6.1 but I recommend you to wait for explode's WM6.1. His roms are the best With the new windows the pocket becmoes really fast and stable. That's all, it's a great device

dark_prince said:
I have planned to buy O2 XDA IIs from my frnd (2nd hand for sure)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice choice. I recently picked up a hermes and while it is very nice, there are some things I miss from the Angel.
dark_prince said:
Does it comes under the name, blueangel???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't quite understand this question. If you are asking if it was sold under the name of Blue Angel, no. Blue Angel is the HTC internal name for the phone. It was never sold by HTC directly, but to the various cell carriers who rebadged it with their own plastics and ROM/applications.
dark_prince said:
also please tell me pros and cons about this dmobile device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pros:
Good CPU speed (the keiser runs at the same speed, 400 mhz)
The CPU has been around for a while, so 3rd party apps that are designed for the CPU work well.
Good physical size on the screen
Lots of storage and program memory when the extended ROM is resized/removed.
Cons:
Since it is an older platform, any MW version after 2003 is a hack. The drivers are generally ported from other phones and there are various bugs that will probably never be fixed due to a lack of hardware drivers. Everything does work, there are just various quirks.
Radio range (bluetooth, wifi, etc) are not the best. Heck, they often tend to be down right crappy.
Unless someone is able to write and release a SDHC driver for the card slot, it will never support SDHC cards, which will limit the phone to 4 gig cards. 2 gig is the official spec for SD, but there are a few 4 gig non-SDHC cards out there.
dark_prince said:
I already own O2 xda exec, typhoon and voyager
what about this one???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still like mine and plan on passing it to my wife or using it for testing and development if she doesn't want it.
dark_prince said:
cud U, experienced users please guide me....am i gonna upgrade its rom to WM6 or not??
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Click to collapse
I would. MW6 is a huge improvement over 2003 and 5. The latest ROM builds out there work very well, if not 99% perfectly, and are fast.
In my opinion, Hemli releasing wm6 for the angel breathed new life into the device.
Really, I wish HTC would revive the device, make an updated version of it. The form factor, while is a bit big for a phone, is great for usability as a PDA.

jdc said:
In my opinion, Hemli releasing wm6 for the angel breathed new life into the device.
Really, I wish HTC would revive the device, make an updated version of it. The form factor, while is a bit big for a phone, is great for usability as a PDA.
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Click to collapse
I second that! Just ditched my Hermes for my old trusty Blue Angel, which blows the pants off it! I forgot how much I loved the 3.5 inch screen!

Rookie as well with the Blue Angel
I am getting started with the Blue angel as well (O2 Xda IIs)
I like it a lot this will probably become my best buddy during my travels
I got a couple of complementary questions about it.
I intend to use it for business purposes, mainly Internet through
Wifi and GPRS, pdf and offices documents.
I saw on this forum that you advise to change from WM 2003SE to Windows Mobile 6 (the last published by Microsoft)
-My question is: This PDA is already a bit old now, is it going to work smoothly wit the very last OS, which is designed for more recent PDAs (i.e which should be more efficient).
I mainly want to use it for Internet, wich browser do you recommend ?
Internet explorer? Opera Mobile? Opera Mini? other browser?
By the way what is the difference between Opera Mobile and Opera Mini

you should go with opera mobile, as it is better suited for pda's. opera mini is suited for java based mobile phones.

jdc said:
Really, I wish HTC would revive the device, make an updated version of it. The form factor, while is a bit big for a phone, is great for usability as a PDA.
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man i wish they would do that, or release a device with the same glorious screen but with contemporary features, all in all the blu angel is still a killer device 4 years on.

Absolutely right. I had been using the subj for 4 years in nearly extremal conditions, uprading and downgrading firmware dozen times. But, unfortunately it died as hero. Really great gadget, legend of HTC platform challenging ages.

Hi
Well with WM 6.1 it does everything I need and thats for sure I have my pick of devices and always come back to this one - and the 11i which is just about as good
I cant think of a time I have been upset with what it does or doesn't do. I intend keep one for as long as it will run....
John P

Axim x50v or x51 - which would you choose? (long post)

I'm not really sure where this belongs, so I'll put it here and ask for input and if a Mod decides it should be in another subforum, I've got no issues with it being moved. Also, this is a long post so, if you're so inclined to read it and you have some advice, I'd love to hear your opinions and thoughts.
I've been playing around with the x50v I got recently off Craig's List for $100: a nice little package deal, the x50v in immaculate condition with a screen protector, a "notebook" style leather flip case - not what I want however, the original 1100 mAh battery and cover as well as an extended 2200 mAh battery with extended cover, 2 cradles, 2 AC adapters, and a 1GB Patriot SD card + a 256MB SanDisk CF card.
It works great, I updated to the Dell WM5 A05 ROM then jumped directly to Lenny's L09 WM6.1 and I'm happy with it, but this is the second x50V I've owned in the past year and, well, I guess I'm sorta unhappy with the performance. I believe, based on reading a few thousand forum postings here and at Aximsite, Brighthand, and Lenny's HTCGeeks forum - and also everything I can find about the NOR memory issues with the x50(v) series Axims from Microsoft.
I know that the filesys.exe issue will always be there, that's a given, and based on how "slow" I think this thing is it just gives me reason to wonder what exactly is wrong. Here's my reasoning, based on experience:
I grabbed an HTC Wizard (AT&T/Cingular 8125) off Craig's List a few months back because the owner snapped the USB port off inside the unit. He had a wall-type charger for the battery, but obviously it couldn't be hooked up to a PC any longer through that USB port. I've contemplated sending it off to those PPC guys to repair the port but, it's like $100 or close to it and I really don't use the phone that much except as a cheap digital camera.
The reason I mention that Wizard is because I installed PointUI on it (www.pointui.com), a fairly cool but needs more development "touch" UI application. On the Wizard, the OS is WM5, untouched, I even reset the device recently and reinstalled the old PointUI I had (not the latest 1.5a version). The point I'm trying to make here is this:
PointUI on that Wizard is ridiculously fast and smooth as butter, almost like having an iPhone/iPod touch smoothness to it, really. It's that fast and smooth, at least to me. And the Wizard has no discrete graphics chip on it like the x50v does - the Intel 2700G GPU, basically.
So, here's my dilemma: when I install the older or even the latest versions of PointUI on the x50v (and yes I'm aware that it's not really designed for non-phones but it does work), it's slow. It's not fast, it's not smooth, and for a device with significantly more horsepower - running at 624 MHz full bore with the Intel 2700G working too, as compared to the Wizard running at a paltry 200 MHz or so with no video acceleration at all - I'm a bit disappointed in it.
Also, while I haven't tested it, I wonder if the issues are being caused by the slower NOR memory in the x50v. I have tried a few games like Enigmo which came with the x50v brand new and it seems to play pretty slowly as well on the x50v, even with the graphics acceleration working.
Blah blah blah... ok, here's my question:
I don't run at true VGA mode much, that's a given. I've installed a few apps that let me enable VGA mode on the device after a reset, but there just doesn't seem to be much out there taking advantage of it: 320x240 still is the order of business for the PocketPC universe, probably always will be unfortunately.
So, right now I've located an x51 (not an x51v which I really want but can't locate for a decent price, certainly not for $100 in a package like I just found with this x50v with a few cradles and chargers, maybe an extra battery or two, for about $100. It's not the x51v as I just noted, and right now I don't even know if it's the low-end x51 (416 MHz) or the mid-range model (520 MHz), I'll find that out if I choose to get it. Aside from the clock speed I think the low-end and mid-range models are identical - only the default clock speed (max) is what differentiates them; if I'm wrong and there are other differences between those two models, someone tell me, please, thanks.
The meat and potatoes: if you had the choice between the x50v with the slow and unavoidable NOR memory with the accompanying issues because of file compaction with filesys.exe that sometimes make the device so slow it almost makes you want to just reset it to start using it again, or...
The x51 which has no such issues, but also has no video acceleration but might not need it for simple movie/video playback, and most certainly can play audio files easily, and should theoretically run much faster than the x50/x50v because they're built with NOR memory and the x51 line uses NAND...
Which would you choose based on the following:
- the VGA screen in the x50v has 4x as many pixels so it's drawing 4x the power even when VGA mode isn't enabled - this is a fact because the LCD panel has 4x as many pixels. Just because I'm not running in VGA doesn't mean those extra pixels are "off" - they're always on, but it now requires 4 pixels to show what 320x240 would show on the x51 with just 1 pixel. It's weird but it's true, so theoretically the x51 should use less battery power. I can deal with 320x240, it's fine... movies still look fine to me on 320x240 screens.
- The slower clock speed at 416 or 520 MHz is fine also, movies don't really require that much CPU power to play with the encodings I've been finding and trying to make myself (limiting the bitrate to about 300 Kbps, 320x240 or whatever but 320 pixels wide max then the height is proportional based on the source content). Again, the slower clockspeed by default would mean longer battery life theoretically.
- Everything else between the x50v and the x51 are basically identical except for the Intel 2700G video chip. Same case, ports, CF/SD card slots, same Wi-Fi/Bluetooth hardware, etc, it's all the same save for the differences in clockspeed and the video, really.
So, which would you choose if you wanted the best performance with anything you're doing, without wondering if the device will suddenly just choke to a standstill while it's trying to process some information or store it in memory or whatever.
I'm leaning to the x51, actually. I still haven't had a chance to actually use an x51 or x51v, but if the performance of this lowly Wizard at 3x slower on average with no video acceleration at all is any sign, the x51/x51v should really be some damned fast devices.
Also, I just noted earlier today that MagLite is at work again and just released a test ROM for WM6.1 for the x50!!! Not the x50v, but the plain old x50 without the Intel 2700G, so this bodes very well that perhaps he or someone else could throw some stuff into their "kitchen sinks" and create a proper working WM6.1 ROM for the x51...
I'm pretty excited at the possibilities, and yes I'd still love to get an actual x51v or even an HP x4700 at this point with the 4" LCD, but at the moment the x50v I have is working, albeit slower than I'd like. With the factory WM2003SE on it it's very fast and snappy as expected, but put WM5 on it and performance plummets, and with WM6.1 it's even worse to some degree. I'm suspecting all of it is because of the slower NOR but I didn't think it was that slow - apparently is is because this little Wizard runs circles around my x50v... seems sad, really.
Thanks to anyone that reads all this and comments, I appreciate it.

Touch Pro 2 Internal Hardware Discussion (Chainfire please read)

Hi Chainfire,
Thank you for the clarification in the last thread on the different Qualcomm processor variants.
Admittedly I am still a little dubious about your specs because I'm sure I saw a datasheet for the 7200a that stated it was 90nm - however I know that you have been in this game for while (ROMs et al) so I will accept them and verify them when I get a moment)
I also agree that the TP2 did feel snappier than the TP1.
However your argument concerning the TP being a repackaged Tytn2 is a very weak one for the reasons you specified and many others.
The TP is clearly a different class of device in comparison to the Tytn 2 and definitely doesn't feel repackaged.
Also the phones have not simply been repackaged over the last few years, I've had most of them with considerable improvements in each until we reached the Qualcomm era pre snapdragon...
Also I'm not a fan for the 7200 series qualcomm processors for all types of video related reasons.
The snapdragon (also qualcomm) demonstrates innovation and shows promise as well as potential.
On another tangent I'm really loving the snapdragon capabilities they've demonstrated runing android in the netbook market at the moment too (720p hardware encoding and decoding according another engadget and gizmodo.
As usual - Time will tell - it never lies!
Question - Doesn't anyone else feel a little betrayed at the rate of hardware/software innovation in WM products at the moment?
I surely can't be the only one.
I've used these devices for ages and after seeing things like the Palm Pre and IPhone I feel a little frustrated.

qazzi76 said:
Hi Chainfire,
Thank you for the clarification in the last thread on the different Qualcomm processor variants.
Admittedly I am still a little dubious about your specs because I'm sure I saw a datasheet for the 7200a that stated it was 90nm - however I know that you have been in this game for while (ROMs et al) so I will accept them and verify them when I get a moment)
I also agree that the TP2 did feel snappier than the TP1.
However your argument concerning the TP being a repackaged Tytn2 is a very weak one for the reasons you specified and many others.
The TP is clearly a different class of device in comparison to the Tytn 2 and definitely doesn't feel repackaged.
Also the phones have not simply been repackaged over the last few years, I've had most of them with considerable improvements in each until we reached the Qualcomm era pre snapdragon...
Also I'm not a fan for the 7200 series qualcomm processors for all types of video related reasons.
The snapdragon (also qualcomm) demonstrates innovation and shows promise as well as potential.
On another tangent I'm really loving the snapdragon capabilities they've demonstrated runing android in the netbook market at the moment too (720p hardware encoding and decoding according another engadget and gizmodo.
As usual - Time will tell - it never lies!
Question - Doesn't anyone else feel a little betrayed at the rate of hardware/software innovation in WM products at the moment?
I surely can't be the only one.
I've used these devices for ages and after seeing things like the Palm Pre and IPhone I feel a little frustrated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why has this been brough back to life? DaveShaw closed the last thread, can't you respect that and leave it for a bit?

No clearly I can't.
While the TP2 isn't that bad a device - if all else fails I will probably end up with one - There is an underlying issue here that needs to be discussed and addressed that isn't only applicable to the Touch Pro 2.

And further more I'm not offending anyone I'm encouraging discussion that needs to be encouraged.
I've been here since 2004 and been using these devices before 2004 and am seriously wondering what's happening with WM in the industry lately.
- WM7 promised the world but has yet to see the light of day.
- We still don't have properly implemented VGA recording in our devices
- Rich application experience is only available through 3rd party programs and pluggins when it should be available at the OS level.
- Why on earth do some programmers know how to manipulate the hardware at OS level better than Microsoft, the people that make the OS (Example Point UI)
Seriously what is going on here?
Have you seen the Palm Pre?
Have you seen the Iphone?
Have you seen Android Cupcake?
What do we have?
Microsoft has given us a half a hearted attempt at an OS refresh (6.5) and embarassingly all our rich app experiences are provided by third parties.
Why couldn't HTC release Rhodium level hardware with Android?

As for processor specs:
From the MSM7200A datasheet that I "absolutely don't have":
7200: 90 nm CMOS (15 x 15 x 1.4 mm)
7200A: 65 nm CMOS (15 x 15 x 1.4 mm)
Some more interesting changes in non-A vs A are that the A has 24bpp display support for EBI2, and the memory is clocked at 166mhz instead of 128mhz (aside from the obvious 528mhz (533 officially) addition) and also uses a different GPS core. I assume all the latter is also in the 7201A but I cannot verify that, so...
As to the repackaging thing, perhaps you misunderstood me. I do not feel like the TP is a repackaged TyTN II, nor do I really feel the TP2 is a repackaged TP. But, if you say the latter you should also say the former - the thread starter only did the latter. Even if for one you may feel instinctively that it isn't repackaged and for the other you do, it's either both or neither, from my viewpoint.
I agree there have been many improvements, but most of them were not in the 'bare' hardware. And that was the discussion point of the thread starter, who stated in one of his posts that we were not talking about software. Obviously, casing, screens, etc have improvements as well as the software.
Again, I love the TP2. The first time I played with one was love at first sight.
As for video, the 7200 series is more than capable - just not supported very well. With fully optimized drivers and software, video playback should be much better than it is right now. Its the old trick of unleashing a little bit more potential with every device release to get people to upgrade. Sound business model, but obviously us techs frown at it.
As for snapdragon, I agree it has got awesome capabilities, but there are some caveats (note that I already played with snapdragon devices and it felt really fast to me... much faster than TP2).
Caveat #1: How will it stack up versus the Tegra? I've also seen Tegra (test) devices in action up close (no touching, though, and it was bigger than my pocket) and it did seem extremely awesome.
Caveat #2: It's still Qualcomm. While HTC is partially to blame for the whole mess the past few years, so is Qualcomm. Both of these companies continuously let us down performance-wise. Will the old dogs learn new tricks? Will major corporations ever actually care about their customers? Will they ever deliver what they promise? We are talking about HTC and Qualcomm here, and due to past experience I wouldn't put the chances of that very high.
Of course, Microsoft also has a big role to play in optimizing WM. It's a dog. But it's improving... I do have high hopes for WM7.
Do I feel betrayed? I don't think that's the correct word, but yes, I am disappointed (even if I do love the TP2 ). I think over time things will get better though. WM being the slow dog that it is, with the latest hardware and some effort it should still be technically possible to top iPhone performance by a large margin.
I can easily understand your frustration though. I am myself heavily invested in WM (my livelyhood actually depends on it) so I am also frustrated. It can be much better!

Hi Chainfire,
Oh - I see... Got you.
So the A supports higher bit resolution displays and has faster memory!
Ok I stand corrected about the MSM7200 series processors.
Somehow I'm not surprised the hardware is capable of good Video - I just haven't experienced it.. yet.. - But I also put that down to poor colaboration (possibly deliberately) on MS, HTC and Qualcomms part)
I also have been wondering about the Tegra but I see it taking ages to come to market based on NVidia's PDA GPU efforts before which eventually materialised in Dells axim x51v (PDA) initially and then imates 6150(Phone) ages after anouncement.
Obviously this could change.
I agree the Tegra is a worthy force to be reckoned with if implemented correctly - I unfortunately have only seen working examples of the Tegra on Youtube but what I have seen has been very very impressive GUI wise.
The Snapdragon looks kinda crazy too with its 1.3ghz potential when its already flying at 1ghz on the TG01 and the whole netbook angle/implementation of snapdragon.
I guess we'll have to wait and see what WM7 has to offer although I imagine it's must be a little difficult for you at the mo with the whole Android and apple app store gaining ground and making their mark in industry.
Anyhow I wish you good luck with your WM based business projects/ventures.

Maybe tp2 use msm7201A http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=522460

That would be interesting, it is listed as 7200A everywhere on the net. But as some people already have one, perhaps they should check the about screen?
Mine still not in...
EDIT: Checked FCC pics, that one indeed seems to have 7201A. Wonder if the EU version will also have this or have 7200A. We'll know soon enough I guess!

Chainfire said:
That would be interesting, it is listed as 7200A everywhere on the net. But as some people already have one, perhaps they should check the about screen?
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Click to collapse
UK version 7200A-528MHz, according the the About screen.

Hmm, that makes it likely the US versions will be MSM7201A and the rest of the world will get MSM7200A... Interesting!

out of interest im in uk and mine has the 7200A...

new hardware Qualcomm’s next-gen (not wp7)

http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2011...e-cpu-and-gpu-chipsets-coming-later-this-year
Does wp7 really want to be only single-core really old hardware? This new hardware in the end 2011 with Android even if unoptimised will kick ass to wp7 in current specs chassis even with Mango enhacments... MS needs to work harder...
Much better games performance, faster loading apps... etc...
75% lower power... I think MS needs to step back on power restrictions... this chips will be 75% less power... they are restricting too much the OS against the Android when the new chips will have a much better battery and performance rate than the actual ones...

Well, the benefit of multiple cores isn't as obvious as one may think because software has to be written in a special way in order to benefit from more than one core. So basically buying a phone with two cores running current versions of Android or WP7 or whatever is most probably just a waste.
That being said, newer processors are built using 45nm technology and consume less power, so using those more modern cores would probably be more noticeable.
And of course it's all going the way of megapixels. Since most people will automatically assume that if you have twice as many cores the thing will run twice as fast, you sort of must use those multiple cores, no matter if it benefits the end user or not.
So yeah, I guess MS have to update hardware support...

actually 28nm...
and this new hardware, have 2.5Ghz... even if they are multi-core they should go faster then current 1ghz... with less power... and games would benefit a whole lot...
besides even if current software isn't optimized, as soon as this harware would be released people would start to optimize it. Android already start it. Does MS wants to be on the back of mobile competion, again?

Whether games will be rewritten or not depends on how widespread those multicore devices will be and when. So far games aren't exactly utilizing modern hardware - how many of them take advantage of Samsung's awesome GPUs built into Galaxy S phones? When 90% of devices in the market don't have this type of tech, what's the point of rewriting everything just to accomodate for the 10%?
Now, I'm not saying that multiple cores aren't awesome, I'm just saying that it's highly unlikely that you'll see real benefit from them this year.

tfouto said:
actually 28nm...
and this new hardware, have 2.5Ghz... even if they are multi-core they should go faster then current 1ghz... with less power... and games would benefit a whole lot...
besides even if current software isn't optimized, as soon as this harware would be released people would start to optimize it. Android already start it. Does MS wants to be on the back of mobile competion, again?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First: no flame intended.
You're making a lot of assumptions. Faster, less power. Don't look into the neighbor's garden to fix your own garden. Think what is necessary for WP7 to advance and be better.
Then, Android is so fragmented and has sooooo many models I wouldn't know where to start if I would want to try one. There is no real stability in term of standards. Every 6 months there's a better phone (like a new generation) and you end up with an older model after that period. So basically the cycle is much shorter than on every other platform. Even iPhone has a 1 year cycle. And I don't even want to think about privacy issues there, you basically upload all your data and behavior somewhere else and agree it can be used by others...
But that is not the real issue. People expect a platform to mature over night. It won't happen, we all need to be a bit patient. If you're looking for future features now, then you've already made a mistake, regardless of what platform you're on.
People should understand what they want from a phone first. We all know it's easier to spot problems with the things you're familiar with and you see the others as better. But once you try the others you realize it's the same story again, it looked better before when you didn't know it.
To conclude: my WP7 phone does exactly what's supposed to do, with the current hardware specs. Can it do more? Sure, but we have to be a bit patient. Then, if it doesn't deliver, try something else. Until then, I don't want to be a technology nomad, I'll always be unhappy as in a few months there will always be a better phone. I'd rather stick with something until it matures a bit and enjoy the ride/phone.

You do realise that the Chasis is minimum specs right? Manufaturers can use what they want as long as it's above those specs.

^ not for chips.

brummiesteven said:
You do realise that the Chasis is minimum specs right? Manufaturers can use what they want as long as it's above those specs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not really... you are wrong... they can for components... camera, etc... not chips...

tfouto said:
not really... you are wrong... they can for components... camera, etc... not chips...
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Click to collapse
Fair enough, my bad.

The good thing about how MS is handling hardware is also the bad thing. They are making the drivers so we don't have to worry about putting up with crappy drivers from OEM's like HTC. The bad thing is in order to see newer hardware, MS has to release an update for said hardware's drivers. Mango will include drivers for a newer chipset, just not this Quad Core. Than again, the Quad isn't due out till the end of 2012, so why add support now or even write drivers for unfinished hardware.

I dont see the need for multiple cores, am i the only person?

moneysaver05 said:
I dont see the need for multiple cores, am i the only person?
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Click to collapse
+1
I want to use my phone primary as a "information device", I use it to check my mails, send messages, update facebook, look things up on Wikipedia, search translations and browse the web. In order to do these things my old HTC Touch with 200 MHz was enough (it was slow but it has done the job well :-D ). But new devices like the WP7s add further possibilities. Entertaining has become more important. Entertaining has becom more important. But in order to use the handset as media player i don't think a Dual-Core Processor is necessary. And honestly, if I want to play a game with high graphics, i use my PC.
I don't want to complain but i totally agree with you moneysaver... Using Dual-Core processors would on one hand increase the gaming experience but on the other increase the price and drain more power. In my opinion "better" processor would bring to many downsides ATM. Another thing is, that you can outsource all heavy calculations to the cloud...
In short: If someone would offer me a phone with a efficient Dual-Core Processor, I would't say no. But i wouldn't say a Dual-Core Processor is a must-have...
Regards
Chris

Most important is low power with fast processor.
Sent from my 7 Trophy using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

well low power it fast processor is exactly what this new chips are...
twitter takes 7 seconds to fully open... with a 2.5ghz would take 3 seconds and with a dual core much less... and which less consuptiom i cant see what how bad could it be...

ov2rey said:
Most important is low power with fast processor.
Sent from my 7 Trophy using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The newer chips consumes less power

tfouto said:
well low power it fast processor is exactly what this new chips are...
twitter takes 7 seconds to fully open... with a 2.5ghz would take 3 seconds and with a dual core much less... and which less consuptiom i cant see what how bad could it be...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I 'd rather have a fully used single core processor with optimized drivers from Microsoft than a 5GHz quad core with no software to use it. Next update will bring lower memory consumption and other optimizations that will be enough to coast us to 2012 were another update will (probably ? ) be released to support the upgraded chassis specs (dual cores maybe?)
iPhones have shown that optimized software makes up for less powered hardware (my wife's 3Gs is a living proof of that)

Android: Non-optmized OS.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/28/samsung-galaxy-s-ii-review/
- Class-leading speed and responsiveness
i sincerely dont believe that wp7 Mango optimized with current Snapdragon can compete with this speed... and the later HTC EVO 3D... and of course
battery life...

[INFO] Intel's pushing for Android ...

The following article is not even remotely related to E4GT (or Samsung for that matter) but I found it very interesting... There's a strong possibility of Intel dominating all mobile processors starting 2014 - 2015 ...
http://liliputing.com/2012/04/intel-pushes-atom-chip-for-android-devices.html
EDIT: I just noticed that the website (or maybe the user) removed the second post that I copied below.
You can skip the actual article, but read the comments (from user CyberGusa) :
While as for what advantages Intel can start to offer, it's what Chippy from UMPCPortal would call High Dynamic Range Computing (HDRC). Unlike ARM, Intel is fully capable of scaling from the mobile range to the full desktop range.
This will be especially true if Windows 8 is successful, as x86 can offer legacy support where ARM can't, and can provide the higher range performance that ARM is still many years away from being able to provide as their high end next gen offerings will only rival the present gen Intel ATOMs.
MS in particular is patenting a way to easily switch between CPU's when docking. So could make a Windows system literally scale from mobile to laptop and even desktop by just docking it.
The closest ARM based devices will get to this scaling is switching from a ARM to higher end Intel or AMD chip when docked but this will also involve switching from a mobile OS to a desktop one to fully take advantage of the switch.
Though Google is making progress towards making Android a more desktop friendly OS, like with Webtop and similar UI optimizations that take over when docked that would allow Android to take advantage of such scaling but would still be more limited than switching to a true desktop OS that isn't designed with the limits that a mobile OS will have to deal with no matter how the UI is altered and optimized,
Failure of Windows 8 though could well give ARM the advantage.
Intel though is hedging its bets with support for Android and of course the Tizen project. They already bought a company last year that provides them the option to easily switch between two OS instantly, without rebooting.
While they are compensating for what advantages ARM has over them by keeping ahead of the manufacturing shrink curve by at least a year.
So while ARM is heading towards 32 and 28nm productions, Intel is heading toward 22nm and that combined with the architectural updates could potentially start giving Intel the edge.
Mind also that there have been problems with the 28nm production and Intel has strategically not helped ARM with this issue. So time table for many gives them limited time for market penetration before Intel will be able to come out with their own 22nm chips and 14nm is scheduled for 2014.
Also consider that it's not the general consumer market at stake here but also the embedded and server markets, which could give Intel more of a advantage considering that x86 hardware can run pretty much any OS but ARM is still limited to OS already optimized for it.
While ARM is also depending on Windows 8 being a success to provide it a mainstream desktop OS to provide the ability to start competing in the traditional PC markets, and thus would also be negatively effected if Windows 8 fails.
So while ARM is looking good for the rest of this year, it remains to be seen if that will remain true next year and Intel should never be underestimated.
More comments from the same user (CyberGusa):
Right now Intel only has dual core in their higher end ATOM lineup and up to 8 cores for the server market, neither of which are competing with ARM yet.
The upcoming dual core Medfield is mainly just planned for the Tablet market and shouldn't effect the Smart Phone market.
So the main advantage of ARM solutions right now is that they're much more mainstream for the mobile market, with Intel only beginning to compete for the first time. Much like how Nvidia when they first introduced the Tegra and shows slow beginnings are not indicative of how they will do in a year or two.
While as already mentioned the Intel ATOM's are still using pretty much the same architecture as when it was first introduced to the market in 2008. This is like comparing the Cortex A15 to the older Cortex A8 based ARM chips and having the Cortex A8 solution still holds its own.
So having it even come in the same ball park is actually a testament to how much ARM still has to catch up for the higher performance range they're only now entering.
Mind beating the ATOM isn't really hard, as that's the bottom of Intel's chip offerings, with the Core i-Series offering multiples times better performance that ARM is still years away from even getting close to.
While the next gen ATOM's coming out next year are Intel's equivalent of a A15 update to the ATOM. Introducing many of the technology they developed for Ivy Bridge to the ATOM.
Like Intel's Tri-Gate Transistors, a HD 4000 based GMA, putting the entire lineup under SoC, offering a wider range of processor configurations, finally adding Out Of Order Processing to the ATOM, among many other improvements.
While ARM manufacturers are having problems, the delay in moving to 28nm being the most outstanding right now, which is why many are still opting for 32nm. Especially those who have yet to deal with the increased problem of power leakage as they continue to shrink the FAB.
Even Apple is still on 45nm with their latest iPad and had to increase the battery size by 70% to compensate for the increased power consumption of the retina display and the quad core GPU's requires.
So they may up their game but it's going to get harder for them here on out as ARM was designed for low power and low performance and need time to evolve to be able to apply itself to higher end applications.
While Intel already dominates the higher end and just wants to start penetrating into the lower end and that's going to be arguably easier for them to do than for ARM to keep on increasing its performance.
Mind, ARM is still a 32bit architecture and only recently introduced designs for 64bit. This means they're still years away from going fully 64bit and for now we're only going to see enhancements like 64bit memory management.
While it's not easy to continue providing increasing performance and still keep costs and power consumption low. Also ARM customizations has the down side of increased hardware fragmentation.
So it's not like Intel doesn't stand a chance, it's just going to take awhile to see if they can really start competing in the mobile market or have to stay in the higher end PC market.
Comment as you see fit, and keep in mind these are just opinions, not facts !!!

First...
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Even if Intel is not on top by then they will make sure the bar is set high. Good read.
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Good read. If Intel is truly interested in advancing the mobile field, I can see them doing big things in the future. At the very least, the competition they bring to the market will keep everyone else on their toes.
Transmission sent from a Galaxy S II, CODENAME style.

intel will show other processor companies how its done. their technology is quality when compared to AMD. but AMD tries to be more innovative. in the end i went with expensive intel to build my computer

Competition premotes innovation. I have read that the next few generations of processors are already developed but they only release one at a time to guarantee profits and to not outrun what they have. So, with more chips in competition this will help us see better processors faster. It will also lower cost. So, a phone might cost the same 4 years from now instead of more. I personally think it is a great idea. Even if there chips weren't much better they still will help. It is a win win for the consumer. Great article!
Sent from Team KC's founding member HTC Evo 4G LTE.

Oh and Intel is known for making low battery consumption processors. Can't wait for that by them making small chips only nanometers big
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kc_exactly said:
Competition premotes innovation. I have read that the next few generations of processors are already developed but they only release one at a time to guarantee profits and to not outrun what they have. So, with more chips in competition this will help us see better processors faster. It will also lower cost. So, a phone might cost the same 4 years from now instead of more. I personally think it is a great idea. Even if there chips weren't much better they still will help. It is a win win for the consumer. Great article!
Sent from Team KC's founding member HTC Evo 4G LTE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my personal opinion, I think Intel does make outstanding processors, but their marketing skills are not customer friendly. Take for example the numerous options for the speed of a processor they sell...
let's say the new processor X came out with speeds of 1.6 GHz, and then 3 months later, they come out with the same processor X but with improved speeds of 2.2 GHz at 40% increased cost... and after another 3 months they release the Black Edition processor X with the ultimate speed of 2.4 GHz at double and even triple the price of the original !!!
Do you honestly think they will redesign the production line just to make the new and improved Black Edition processor X ??? I don't think so... In my opinion, they're probably selling the exact same processor X from the beginning to the end, but they slow down the speed in the early versions and they gradually release to full potential ... In this way, they sell the same processor (which cuts down the design/engineering and production costs) yet they stay very profitable and ahead of the market curve by announcing an improved product every 3 months !!!
In other words, the same processor X will sell as follows:
1st release) Speed minus 40% (no overclock) ... "Regular" price
2nd release) Speed minus 30% (no overclock) ... "Regular" price + 15%
...................................................................................
...................................................................................
Black Edition) Speed and overclock unlocked ... "Regular" price + 300%
The worst thing they ever did (starting with Core processors, such as i3, i5...) was to incorporate the video card into the processor, and to lock out other video card vendors from the system ... In this way, they sell the processor AND the video card at the same time, and there's no more competition at the same time !!! They call this bull **** integration something like "system on a chip" for better power consumption ... WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME ANYONE LOOKED FORWARD TO INSTALLING AND BENCHMARKING INTEL VIDEO CARDS IN THEIR COMPUTERS ??? Why do you think AMD bought ATI video card manufacturer ?
And you think it wouldn't get any worst ? Recently Intel started to sell their TOP OF THE LINE PROCESSORS without their video integrated cards ... That means that us, the consumers, have to PAY EXTRA FOR LESS PRODUCT just to get away from their marketing schemes !!!
In the end, we probably pay "regular" price when processor X is introduced, then it's all profits from there on for Intel.
Now back to cell phones ... think of the same scenario applied to your phone with Intel Inside ...
The above are just my personal opinions on Intel ... tell me if I'm wrong ! Say thanks if you believe I helped you open your eyes !

peryp9 said:
In my personal opinion, I think Intel does make outstanding processors, but their marketing skills are not customer friendly. Take for example the numerous options for the speed of a processor they sell...
let's say the new processor X came out with speeds of 1.6 GHz, and then 3 months later, they come out with the same processor X but with improved speeds of 2.2 GHz at 40% increased cost... and after another 3 months they release the Black Edition processor X with the ultimate speed of 2.4 GHz at double and even triple the price of the original !!!
Do you honestly think they will redesign the production line just to make the new and improved Black Edition processor X ??? I don't think so... In my opinion, they're probably selling the exact same processor X from the beginning to the end, but they slow down the speed in the early versions and they gradually release to full potential ... In this way, they sell the same processor (which cuts down the design/engineering and production costs) yet they stay very profitable and ahead of the market curve by announcing an improved product every 3 months !!!
In other words, the same processor X will sell as follows:
1st release) Speed minus 40% (no overclock) ... "Regular" price
2nd release) Speed minus 30% (no overclock) ... "Regular" price + 15%
...................................................................................
...................................................................................
Black Edition) Speed and overclock unlocked ... "Regular" price + 300%
The worst thing they ever did (starting with Core processors, such as i3, i5...) was to incorporate the video card into the processor, and to lock out other video card vendors from the system ... In this way, they sell the processor AND the video card at the same time, and there's no more competition at the same time !!! They call this bull **** integration something like "system on a chip" for better power consumption ... WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME ANYONE LOOKED FORWARD TO INSTALLING AND BENCHMARKING INTEL VIDEO CARDS IN THEIR COMPUTERS ??? Why do you think AMD bought ATI video card manufacturer ?
And you think it wouldn't get any worst ? Recently Intel started to sell their TOP OF THE LINE PROCESSORS without their video integrated cards ... That means that us, the consumers, have to PAY EXTRA FOR LESS PRODUCT just to get away from their marketing schemes !!!
In the end, we probably pay "regular" price when processor X is introduced, then it's all profits from there on for Intel.
Now back to cell phones ... think of the same scenario applied to your phone with Intel Inside ...
The above are just my personal opinions on Intel ... tell me if I'm wrong ! Say thanks if you believe I helped you open your eyes !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since when Intel has Black Edition CPU?
And about locking out other video card vendors from the system, are you sure you know what you talking about?

locoboi187 said:
intel will show other processor companies how its done. their technology is quality when compared to AMD. but AMD tries to be more innovative. in the end i went with expensive intel to build my computer
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Intel can school everyone else on microprocessor development, manufacturing, budget, evolution...but...x86 is known power hungry. I'm sure if they keep reducing their process (which they will) they can get x86 to match arm, energy consumption wise. But, on the same token, ARM will (WILL) get developed to a point where they will match x86 performance wise.
It's anybodies race. It's early (yes, very early) in the mobile computing game. Intel could very well pull through with it's very refined architecture....that's also regarded as crufty as fnck. The ARM architecture could very well also be refined to the point where they get as many operations per clock...both neck-and-neck on power efficiency.
All said, I'm both excited and doubtful in intel's ability. Microsoft is becoming irrelevant at an amazing speed...perhaps it's intel's turn as well. Wintel? Armdroid? A mix of the two?
Exciting times. Bring on the competition.

Intel never had something called "black editions". They have processors known as "Extreme editions" which are the highest quality bin CPU's which did not get chosen for the Xeon server cpus. These costs $999.
The next batch would be the second highest binned ones which would costs ~$500. Then the next are the average ones which passed all the tests but wasn't as high quality as the higher end models. These are the $200-300 ones.
The rest probably get thrown out.
Now the their integrated solution is a step foward in providing all in one solutions. They did not locking out video card makers who make discrete chipsets which absolutely crushes the integrated HD 2000/3000's. What makes these integrated solutions so attractive is the fact the their intel sync (?) encoding and other stuff is literally mind blowing.
You probably don't even know what you're talking about... like seriously? BE's are AMD's.... video makers are mainly dedicated with PCI-e interfaces....
*Edit*
Intel innovates crazily when pushed heavily. AMD punished Intel for its pentium 4 and forced them either step up or be irrelevant and stepped up they did... conroe... nehalam... clarksfield...sandy bridge.. ivy bridge...
I have no reason to believe if Arm shoved into intel into a corner like AMD did, they wouldn't pounce like they did on amd... let's just say.. if history has taught us anything... I' would feel really bad for ARM due to intels insane budgets, R&D, and advanced chipmaking facilities..

lilotimz said:
Intel never had something called "black editions". They have processors known as "Extreme editions" which are the highest quality bin CPU's which did not get chosen for the Xenon's server cpus. These costs $999.
The next batch would be the second highest binned ones , which would costs ~$500. Then the next are the average ones which did passed all the tests but wasn't as high quality as the higher end models. These are the $200-300 ones.
The rest probably get thrown out.
Now the their integrated solution is a step foward in providing all in one solutions. Not locking out video card makers who make discrete chipsets which absolutely crushes the integrated HD 2000/3000's. What makes these integrated solutions so attractive is the fact the their intel sync (?) encoding and other stuff is literally mind blowing.
You probably don't even know what you're talking about... like seriously? BE's are AMD's.... video makers are mainly dedicated with PCI-e interfaces....
*Edit*
Intel innovates crazily when pushed heavily. AMD punished Intel for its pentium 4 and forced them either step up or be irrelevant and stepped up they did... conroe... nehalam... clarksfield...sandy bridge.. ivy bridge...
I have no reason to believe if Arm shoved into intel into a corner like AMD did... let's just say.. if history has taught us anything... I' would feel really bad for ARM due to intels insane budgets, R&D, and advanced chipmaking facilities..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Intel Black Edition ... Intel Extreme Edition ... the idea was "top of the line". Look at the point I'm trying to make, not the wrong words I used.
Intel may claim that their integrated graphics are great for many thing, but look at the larger picture... pay premium dollar for the ability to use the video card of your choice !!
EDIT: The cheapest processor comes with integrated graphics, while the most expensive one comes without it. I remember when I bought my laptop a few years back (1st generation Intel i5). I was reading about Intel not allowing manufacturers to put other cards in order to bypass the integrated one. In the end, I bought this Intel i5 laptop with NVidia GeForce 325M with Optimus. Check to see how Optimus works with Intel's integrated card and you'll understand what I meant in my previous post.
In the end, the main point I'm trying to get across, is that Intel's products are great (except their video cards) but their marketing scheme will hurt the consumers if they take control of the mobile processor.

All the info by the commenter not withstanding, I have a hard time taking anyone who uses "effect" instead of "affect" seriously.
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